Topic: "Spain are boring"

[pinky]

agreed, it's the opponents that make them boring, well ive said that thrice in this thread now

France were rather dull for me to watch, but not Portugal who looked to press high, made good moves forward at times and had their chances.

[Juan Loco]

If Germany decide to chage their game instead  and the  lose, do you Think people will say : On of these days Germany did not come up, Spain are boring etc...?

I think that'll depend who you talk to. People who think Spain are dull will say the same thing, people who think that they're brilliant will stick to that. I just think Spain will suck the life out of them, but I thought that with Portugal yesterday.

I think Laurent Blanc nailed it to some extent with the idea that you've got to have the ball to implement your game plan properly, so every team against Spain has to change theirs to a huge extent unless their game plan is just to do what the Swiss did. The only team I think have managed to control the game against the Spanish without controlling the ball was Italy, though Portugal did a bit of it last night.

I'd have love to have seen Italy's game plan of this year implemented with the players they had available to them 6-10 years ago, but hey.

[scatman]

Italy miss Giuseppe Rossi

[barneystuta]

If people think Spain are boring, then look forward to watching us next season.

We won't have the same class/technical ability across the board, but we will set up similar, in a way which will mean possession is key, and we are patient with our play.

[jotirori]

I think that'll depend who you talk to. People who think Spain are dull will say the same thing, people who think that they're brilliant will stick to that. I just think Spain will suck the life out of them, but I thought that with Portugal yesterday.

I think Laurent Blanc nailed it to some extent with the idea that you've got to have the ball to implement your game plan properly, so every team against Spain has to change theirs to a huge extent unless their game plan is just to do what the Swiss did. The only team I think have managed to control the game against the Spanish without controlling the ball was Italy, though Portugal did a bit of it last night.

I'd have love to have seen Italy's game plan of this year implemented with the players they had available to them 6-10 years ago, but hey.

In other words, till what extend you think would be the Spanish game boring (and defensive) if Germany play their usual attacking flashy game? do you think Spain will look boring as they have looked  so far in this competition?

[pinky]

Not boring, but they do suffer from V D Bosque desperately trying to do things 'his way'. When the shackles are off they are incredible to watch but the current Coach tries to eliminate any risk from their game; Barca leave themselves much more exposed than Spain ever do. This is not s criticism, as it is probably required at international level but it has created some of the recent comments.

They are not 'boring' but they are 'sensible' and 'safe', especially when in possession. This gives the impression that they could always step up a gear but never seem quite willing to do so.

Don't even compare. Barcelona have Messi, Portugal had to defend the awful Negredo yesterday. That means the rival can play a defensive line closer to midfield, press up more effciently and get you exposed more easily whenever possession is lost.

[Juan Loco]

In other words, till what extend you think would be the Spanish game boring (and defensive) if Germany play their usual attacking flashy game? do you think Spain will look boring as they have looked  so far in this competition?

But Germany won't get to play their game, because Spain will have the ball and will keep it. It's not about the opposition, it's about what Spain choose to do when they keep the ball. Will they have runners from the 2nd line and players moving ahead of play in attacking areas, or will they have David Silva coming towards the ball and just strangling the life out of the game with possession. How Germany (or Italy) set up is almost irrelevent to how entertaining Spain will be. If Spain have the bal then they'll get to decide how attacking they want to be.

[pinky]

I think that'll depend who you talk to. People who think Spain are dull will say the same thing, people who think that they're brilliant will stick to that. I just think Spain will suck the life out of them, but I thought that with Portugal yesterday.

I think Laurent Blanc nailed it to some extent with the idea that you've got to have the ball to implement your game plan properly, so every team against Spain has to change theirs to a huge extent unless their game plan is just to do what the Swiss did. The only team I think have managed to control the game against the Spanish without controlling the ball was Italy, though Portugal did a bit of it last night.

I'd have love to have seen Italy's game plan of this year implemented with the players they had available to them 6-10 years ago, but hey.

I would have loved to see that, but to be fair to Spain, it would have been even more interesting to see it against the better version of Spain in the last 4 years, that's including in-form Torres, Villa and Puyol.

[Mr Rossi]

They haven't been boring but, they do seem to lack some of that cutting edge they had in the previous two competitions. Perhaps it has something to do with them missing David Villa?

[jotirori]

How Germany (or Italy) set up is almost irrelevent to how entertaining Spain will be. If Spain have the bal then they'll get to decide how attacking they want to be.

Disagree.Some teams make the Spanish game look boring and Spain has managed (since the WC) to adapt their  game  in a more effcient way.

Some teams has disputed  Spanish possesion and/or playing  their game and being success at the same time.That is a fact.

For me what you label as irrelevant , it is not.However, nice to know your opinion on this matter.

[lfcshaunod]

They arent boring. They just arent.

If Liverpool kept the ball the way Spain do then i would be fucking made up.

[jamie_c]

They are boring, the results prove they are a great side but the control first and then nick one goal does not make good viewing

What is interesting is that I feel very differently about Barca, obviously Messi is a huge part of this but I think Alves is very important as well.  Arbeloa had so much of the ball last night but was not good enough to do anything with it, Alves makes stuff happen.

[Mr Rossi]

I wish we were as 'boring' as Spain.

[Juan Loco]

I wish we were as 'boring' as Spain.

I wish we were as successful as them. I don't care how.

[Art Vandelay]

I certainly wouldn't call them boring, but their tempo hasn't been quite right in this tournament (at least to my very untrained eye).  They've lacked the sudden increase in speed of passing and thought in the final third which when they're at their best is almost impossible to defend against.

[scatman]

they would have torn these Germans apart haha

[The G in Gerrard]

Long as they win on Sunday (which I hope they do) who gives a fuck what people who criticise them say.

[Bastion Of Invincibility]

I find them boring to watch because they are so good they can afford not to take risks with through balls and forward runs. That doesn't mean I don't admire them, far from it.

[jwlantz]

While I agree that Spain have been boring...preferring style over substance, I though the Portugal game was different.  Both teams really emphasized defense.  Portugal were physical and had the energy to shut down Spain for most of regulation.  I think the extra 2 days of rest really helped them and as usual Spain were quick to close down the ball.  Maybe next time, Ronaldo will put himself in the #1 penalty spot instead of #5.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

The thing is, if this Spain side are boring then our great European Cup sides were boring as hell also.  The old Euro away mantra of quietening the crowd was not earned by attacking with Bielsa like abandon but by controlling the ball and hence the game.

There is a key strand of footballing DNA that runs right from those great Paisley sides all the way to this great Spanish side.  If it is a personal preference as Juan suggests then I am going to admit that I don't trust the footballing judgement of those of you who find them boring (and looking at the list of suspects this is not an isolated case).

[Mouth]

I find it boring them winning all the time and the wankathon that goes on, the football is good, but I liked it when they played nice stuff but still fucked it up, they were smug fuckers about it then, but couldnt back it up, now they can and they are annoying. Same goes for the Italians, match fixing league rigging ref bribing Serie A smug c*nts. They can fuck off as well.

[Noelle]

The thing is, if this Spain side are boring then our great European Cup sides were boring as hell also.  The old Euro away mantra of quietening the crowd was not earned by attacking with Bielsa like abandon but by controlling the ball and hence the game.

There is a key strand of footballing DNA that runs right from those great Paisley sides all the way to this great Spanish side.  If it is a personal preference as Juan suggests then I am going to admit that I don't trust the footballing judgement of those of you who find them boring (and looking at the list of suspects this is not an isolated case).

This isn't about effectiveness though. This is about entertainment. I and I imagine most people, would rather watch a Bielsa side lose than a perfectly executed 1-0 that brings home the trophy when you have no real interest in the fortunes of that side. Particularly at euro 2012 Spain have been a bore to watch, at least for me. That doesn't make what they're doing any less beautiful or impressive. I'd just rather watch the likes of Italy or Russia, keeping purely to performances in this tournament. Yes, having everyone decide the best strategy to deal with Spain is parking a jumbo jet doesn't help, but its not as if Spain are some hyper sexy attacking side being nullified into nothingness by eleven man defenses.


Hell I'd rather watch the Germany side that lost today and I hope Germany never win anything again.

[LiverBirdKop]

They haven't been boring but, they do seem to lack some of that cutting edge they had in the previous two competitions. Perhaps it has something to do with them missing David Villa?

Was having this exact conversation with my mates yesterday and I think it has to do with the missing Villa. I had never found Spain remotely boring, but although I don't think they're boring, they haven't been as exciting as in the past. They seem to be doing the Tiki taka tiki taka without creating as many chances or even half chances as before. For example the Iniesta miss vs Portugal was one of the handful(if that) of 'pretty chances' they created all game long.

[eirwen]

I'll never deny they're impressive. At this point they're probably the best international team I've ever seen. I've never found them to have the same swagger as you do though mate. I suspect it will start to disappear with the next few generations because, y'know, they're winners now. But I think Spain's tournament play has been, erm, 'inhibited'. Especially so in the World Cup last time out. The Euros were slightly different in '08 because Russia went at them twice and got battered as a result. Their game against Greece as a dead rubber, against Sweden they were a bit 'meh' but got the belief from the last minute winner. Against Italy they were up against history and to be fair, in the final, they played well but the swagger was only there five minutes from the end when they knew it was theirs.

I don't necessarily think there's any more swagger or flair about these Spanish teams than the one they had in 2006. I think there's a hardened edge of cynicism and a bit of inhibition because they know that they've got the best squad in the world to choose from and they have to win something. That safety measure has been there all along I think. I don't blame them for it, but I don't find them as entertaining as Spanish sides who have failed in the past. They want and need to win and I think they've got about it - especially under Del Bosque - in the way that's least likely to seem them fall to an unlikely defeat.

Sunday will be their 10th knock-out game in 4 years. They've yet to concede but they've only scored more than once in two of those games, which hardly screams for attacking intent across three tournaments.

They're amazing at what they do, but given that they've now got the monkey off their back trophy-wise, they've got the most talented group of players to collect from, and the way their flagship teams set out to play football, I don't think it's necessarily feel underwhelmed or bored by how the Spanish play their game, and unlike four years or two years ago, they haven't got the weight of pressure where they need to end that trophy drought.

I agree with the 'inhibited' bit. I think people complain more because they have such an amazing squad that we think they could play even better. But they are playing it safe, sure. But this is the case with most winners in these tournaments. I don't agree with the last sentence. If anything the pressure is even bigger now, because everyone expects them to win, including themselves. Fabregas said 4 years ago when they qualified for semi final they all celebrated so much but now even reaching the final doesn't seem to be enough.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Part of the reason more teams don't play like Barcelona or Spain is because it takes courage and time to encourage the players to play in that way. That' sbecause even their own fans initially get on the players' backs because they are bored and want to see some foprward passing. There's no debate here - even their coaches acknowledge that they have to overcome the psychological barrier of boring the crowd in order to win.

Sometimes thats what it takes. Sampras was boring. Schumacher was (mostly) boring. Even Phil The Power Taylor was boring. The best clothes, cars or fodd arent always the most entertaining, whacky and outlandish ones - why would football be any different?

[Mr Rossi]

I wish we were as successful as them. I don't care how.

Thats the point i'm tryin to make Juan, I couldn't care less if the whole world thought we were boring to watch. Just aslong as we were successful.

[scatman]

Part of the reason more teams don't play like Barcelona or Spain is because it takes courage and time to encourage the players to play in that way. That' sbecause even their own fans initially get on the players' backs because they are bored and want to see some foprward passing. There's no debate here - even their coaches acknowledge that they have to overcome the psychological barrier of boring the crowd in order to win.

Sometimes thats what it takes. Sampras was boring. Schumacher was (mostly) boring. Even Phil The Power Taylor was boring. The best clothes, cars or fodd arent always the most entertaining, whacky and outlandish ones - why would football be any different?

something shanks alluded to about our support too

[didi shamone]

They aren't in the slightest bit boring to my eye. I think people are just so sick of them winning and having total control of games that they're getting bored of it. Not their style of football.
In fairness they need a striker to give them more of a cutting edge in games and they look a bit tired, but it's up to everyone else to reach their standards, not them to fall back to eyeryone elses.
Having said that I think they'll come a cropper against Italy on Sunday in a repeat of their fantastic group game.

[Crosby Wych]

 I don't think they're boring per sé but I don't like when you see Spaniards or Spanish players shitting on teams playing other styles to counter it and saying it's "anti-football" just because it doesn't play into their hands.

What makes football great is the complete different ways you can set up.

[Mirra]

I like to watch them play, but only in fucking England could the term "tikka takka" come about to slate a team who are miles ahead of our own national team for playing good football. It annoys me.

[Port_vale_lad]

Like watching spain,but much prefer watching barca,think barca are a bit more attacking,must be the Messi factor

[Trousers]

They miss Villa.
Everything clicks when he's up front.

One of the finest strikers of the last 30 years in my opinion.
Wonderful player.

EDIT: That said no one in this country is in any position to criticise.

[SpartanRed]

They miss Villa.
Everything clicks when he's up front.

One of the finest strikers of the last 30 years in my opinion.
Wonderful player.

EDIT: That said no one in this country is in any position to criticise.

Yep.

Personally, I don't find them boring and I hope we can go on to control games as they do.
Especially if it makes us successful again.

[AnotherSpanishfan]

Like watching spain,but much prefer watching barca,think barca are a bit more attacking,must be the Messi factor

Messi is the big factor but it is more than that:

- Barcelona have Alves who is basically a winger while Del Bosque has Arbeloa who offers very little offensively.

- Barcelona usually play a 3-man midfield with Busquets as the lone DM, Xavi linking up everywhere and Iniesta as the more attacking midfielder, while Spain play with two DM's (Busquets-Alonso).

- Barcelona's front 3 are usually Messi (most dynamic player in the world contributing a ridiculous amount of goals and assists) and, when healthy, usually one (with Cesc) or two of Villa-Alexis-Pedro.  Players that make runs and can score a decent amount of goals, while Del Bosque has been playing with Cesc in the Messi role and Iniesta and Silva as the "wide" attacking midfielders (players that prefer the ball at their feet and have runners ahead of them.)

When you combine every factor you can see why Del Bosque's Spain is a much more conservative version of the "tiki-taka" and more "boring".  I think Spain could play a lot closer to Barcelona (never as good because you don't have the best player in the world) but a lot more entertaining and risk-taking if the system was tweaked a bit.

[JohnHobbes]

I don't find them boring at all but I do find them frustrating to watch at times. Same as can be levelled at the Barca side when the opposition plays a very compact defensive shell. When they've passed the ball around, the wide player has made a nice run into space on the wing and in a great position to cross/pass it into the area and yet... it goes backwards and they start again.

It's often a real mix of fascination, amazement and frustration really. With that said, if we played like that next season with the same "boring" style and great results, I'd be a very happy man.

[MOZ]

Don't even compare. Barcelona have Messi, Portugal had to defend the awful Negredo yesterday. That means the rival can play a defensive line closer to midfield, press up more effciently and get you exposed more easily whenever possession is lost.

Why not compare? The very reason people say Spain are boring is because they expect them to play like Barcelona. Spain are World and Euro Champions and Barca are the best club side in the world; the comparisons are inevitable considering the amount of Barca players that have featured during the last few years.

Spain being more cautious than Barcelona has more to do with the system than just not having Messi. Del Bosque playing two defensive midfielders is the biggest factor in the way Spain are playing at the moment; they play slightly deeper and Xavi is far less effective in this system. He also plays Iniesta in an unfamiliar position and is reluctant to play a striker. Not everything Spain do is about not having Messi; they have enough quality to be more adventerous but the Coach just does not play that way (hence playing Negredo, to use your example)

In the end it does not matter, because it is works for VDB and Spain are still a joy to watch for most football fans.

[AisoD]

The problem with Spain is that they're very one paced, with very little tempo to their game. They play monotone football.

If they had Torres starting maybe they would be more interesting to watch, or if they added a Gerrard type of player amongst all the little tiki taka players, they'd be a lot more fascinating to watch.

[Roger Federer]

I still enjoy watching them and admire they way they keep the ball and play their way out of any situation. It takes an awful lot of courage and skill, and the way they force every other side in the world to adapt to them and never the other way round is also still fascinating to watch. I doubt I'll ever see a national side quite like it again, filled which such superb players like Alonso, Xavi, Busquets, and Iniesta.

But I'd like to see them set up in a slightly different way. I don't care if they use proper number 9 or not, but I think they lack something in their attack under del Bosque (and without Villa). As others have also said here above, I don't see the need to use all three of Xabi, Xavi (who isn't nearly as influencial as he could be deeper) and Busquets, and think they miss players who makes runs beyond a defensive line. Both Silva and Iniesta like to get the ball to feet, and need players like Pedro ahead of them to be at their best, but are played in a position where they are expected (or should be in my opinion anyway) to not only link up with Fabregas/a striker, but also run beyond that player to open up the defence. They can do it of course, but it's not their natural game, and especially Iniesta is used too far forward and wide in my opinion. If they played with, for example, Busquets, Xavi (or on recent form, Alonso) and Iniesta in midfield, with Silva, Pedro and Fabregas in attack, I still think they'd have as much control of the ball and play as they do now, but also pose more questions to the opposition defence and be a bit more entertaining to watch. Del Bosque is not using his superb squad to their absolute best I think, but it's of course a bit silly to argue against him when he's one game away from another big title.

[Ryba]

Personally find them boring.

[rednich85]

Personally, I find it riveting watching Spain in this tournament.

The whole no striker thing....I mean.....its modern football history being made.

How anyone isnt fascinated with their will to do things their way and by finding a way to overcome sides through intelligence and technique....I think its fucking great.