Author Topic: Craig Bellamy  (Read 64906 times)

Offline killer_heels

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2012, 05:43:32 PM »
Id rather lose Downing than Bellamy and that is saying something if you take into account Bellamy's wage and fitness worries.

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2012, 05:55:37 PM »
This is exactly the kind of deal we shouldn't even be considering (unless for some reason Rodgers just doesn't see Bellamy fitting into his plans at all, which is hard to imagine).

We've gone on and on about how we failed because the squad behind the first XI wasn't strong enough 3-4 years ago.  Then, after we've strengthened the squad to the point that we can start worrying about fixing the 3-4 biggest problems in the first XI, with the confidence that the squad is taken care of, we start talking about selling off those players.

Sometimes it is pure stupidity, as when Kuyt was given a contract with a low buyout that anyone could match.  Other times, it's things like Maxi wanting to go home, or Bellamy possibly wanting the same.  It would be a foolish mistake; he's the perfect player to come off the bench for 20 minutes to change a match, or to start if we have a run of injuries or need to rotate, and for 2 million it's not like we could replace him.  Unless Sterling is going to be the number 2 left forward next season, which I strongly doubt, then this is a deal we should just run away from.

I suppose if I were looking for a silver lining, if Bellamy were to be sold for that sum it would mean that the coaching staff have A LOT of confidence in Sterling to do the business this season.
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #122 on: June 26, 2012, 06:05:56 PM »
I suppose if I were looking for a silver lining, if Bellamy were to be sold for that sum it would mean that the coaching staff have A LOT of confidence in Sterling to do the business this season.

And presumably be able to play in all 71 games.
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Offline The Flying Pig

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #123 on: June 26, 2012, 06:09:18 PM »
This thread has become "the last man standing". ;D
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Online Henry Gale

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #124 on: June 26, 2012, 06:11:23 PM »
Id rather lose Downing than Bellamy and that is saying something if you take into account Bellamy's wage and fitness worries.

Me too, I really don't want Bellamy to leave. He offers more of a goal threat than about 85% of our players.  :butt

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #125 on: June 26, 2012, 06:13:33 PM »
And presumably be able to play in all 71 games.

??

I know this is sarcasm, but we still will probably play around 55 games, and even then there will be Downing and presumably at least one more option (Bellamy or someone else if he's sold) in that position as well.  I'd be very surprised if Sterling gets more than 10 starts and 15 sub appearances next year, and even that is a big stretch.
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Offline RedDan87

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #126 on: June 26, 2012, 06:14:11 PM »
Me too, I really don't want Bellamy to leave. He offers more of a goal threat than about 85% of our players.  :butt

trouble is, we'd have to take a massive loss on downing. whereas if the stories are to be believed, cardiff are willing to give us at least 2M for bellamy. so profit.

having said that i'd happily take a 50% loss on downing and keep bellamy around. he's offered so much more than downing has.

Offline DutchRed

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #127 on: June 26, 2012, 06:16:27 PM »
Id rather lose Downing than Bellamy and that is saying something if you take into account Bellamy's wage and fitness worries.

After last season I would like us to offer Villa another 20m to take him back. Would hurt the wallet, but he hurt my heart badly by showing no commitment whatsoever.
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Offline DutchRed

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #128 on: June 26, 2012, 06:18:19 PM »
Bellamy is brilliant, it would sadden me to see the back of him.
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Offline RedDan87

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #129 on: June 26, 2012, 06:20:21 PM »
Bellamy is brilliant, it would sadden me to see the back of him.

agreed. always seems to give 100% for the club. will miss him if he goes

Offline Il Capitano

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #130 on: June 26, 2012, 06:48:46 PM »
??

I know this is sarcasm, but we still will probably play around 55 games, and even then there will be Downing and presumably at least one more option (Bellamy or someone else if he's sold) in that position as well.  I'd be very surprised if Sterling gets more than 10 starts and 15 sub appearances next year, and even that is a big stretch.

Sure. I'm just not sure exactly what the club are playing at, to be honest. If Bellamy goes, and then presumably Maxi too, then we'll have Downing and Sterling as our options to play a season campaign that will total 71 games, if we reach the final of all three cup competitions. We've been linked with just three players seriously so far, with one looking likely to slip out of our grasp over an extra ฃ20k a week or so - what is the plan, just sell a load of our older players and better performers off for a pittance and fuck around trying to lowball our transfer targets? We aren't going to return to the top of the table with that attitude.
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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #131 on: June 26, 2012, 06:52:40 PM »
Sure. I'm just not sure exactly what the club are playing at, to be honest. If Bellamy goes, and then presumably Maxi too, then we'll have Downing and Sterling as our options to play a season campaign that will total 71 games, if we reach the final of all three cup competitions. We've been linked with just three players seriously so far, with one looking likely to slip out of our grasp over an extra ฃ20k a week or so - what is the plan, just sell a load of our older players and better performers off for a pittance and fuck around trying to lowball our transfer targets? We aren't going to return to the top of the table with that attitude.

Just stay calm, all will become clearer as time goes on.
As for Gylfi, he may well want to join but his club have to be happy with any deal that is offered, they prefer Spurs' bid, so have given him permission to speak to them, that doesnt mean he doesnt want to come here, also its out now what the situation is so if we really need him here we'll sort our bid out, if not no big deal.
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Offline Spanish Al

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #132 on: June 26, 2012, 06:54:04 PM »
Craig will not drop down a division yet. He's got one more year on his deal and when he signed the two year contract I am very sure his plan was too see that out and then move to Cardiff to wind down his career there. If he is wanted by Rodgers (cannot see why he wouldnt be) then Im sure those are still his plans.
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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #133 on: June 26, 2012, 06:55:44 PM »
Come on lads this thread is about Bellers. Lets not get it locked.
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Online AriGold

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #134 on: June 26, 2012, 07:10:41 PM »
Id rather lose Downing than Bellamy and that is saying something if you take into account Bellamy's wage and fitness worries.
Wage? Sure you don't mean age? Downing is probably on more than Bellamy, with a longer contract aswell.
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Offline XabiArt

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #135 on: June 26, 2012, 07:11:04 PM »
Why don't we just sell our bet attackers, seems a sound idea.

Bellamy, Maxi, Kuyt pretty much won us the cup last year and will have given the youngsters so much help.
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Offline Vork+The Knights of Good

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #136 on: June 26, 2012, 07:11:47 PM »
I don't know, mate. Don't you think its a risk if we sell all of Dirk, Maxi and Bellamy in the same window? We would bring some new players and all but there is a high chance some might need time to adapt. I think its necessary to keep at least one of Maxi or Bellamy.

Sure, it's a risk just not a big one in my book. We weren't good last year. We're not breaking up the '27 Yankees or Kenny's '87-'88 side here. We're talking about a player who's 33-years-old next month, has questionable fitness, and tailed off badly the last three months of the year. It's not a huge leap to see those three things as related. Conversely, he has some attributes to his game that we genuinely lack, he's a good character, and he loves the club. The most important factor for me, though, is he's just about guaranteed to leave next summer. So the choice is to pocket ~2m now or have him play 20-25 games next year while spending ~4m and receiving nothing when he leaves. So for me it comes back to what type of role he's going to have in the squad for that one year and what we could do with that ~6m total we'd make/save.

If we think he's the type of player whose contribution will tip the scales between fourth and not-fourth then it's an easy decision. 4m is nothing in that discussion. I don't happen to think he's that player, though. More importantly, I think we could get a decent approximation of his contribution/role from Sterling/Eccleston/New Signing. The most important factor for me, however, is that each of those three alternatives to Bellamy, unlike Craig, have a chance to contribute to our squad beyond next season. With that in mind I can understand a decision to save a decent chunk of change, reinvest it into the squad, and turn the keys for that role over to the new triumverate.

He scored 9 goals last year of varying importance. That's a decent return, but it's not earth-shattering and I think it's fair to assume that's the very best we could hope for next season. In fact, I think it's wise to expect less than that considering Father Time's role in things. Could we get 7 or 8 goals in ~35 games from Sterling/Eccleston/New Signing? I don't think that's an overly-optimistic expectation. I'd say it's probably reasonable and may even be extremely pessimistic depending on who that new signing turns out to be. Again, we're not talking about replacing Digger circa 1988. It comes back to that cliche of selling a player a year early rather than a year late. Unfortunately that cliche is usually related to selling someone we like and could use, not just the Poulsen's of the world.

I'm not sure what people expect from Craig next year. If you're expecting 15 goals and 40 appearances then yeah we should probably keep him, but I'd brace for some disappointment. If, like me, you're looking for something around 5+ goals from 25-odd appearances then you need to ask yourself if that is something we can get from other members of our current squad. If so, then I think you save the 6m and turn to those other options. If not (or if you expect a greater return from Craig) then we should keep him. Like I've said before, I don't think there's a wrong choice here.
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Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #137 on: June 26, 2012, 07:13:52 PM »
I'd hate to see him go, as I like him but surely any reasoning behind allowing him to leave involves his age,wages and te possibility of both of those factors revolving around Pacheco, who Brendan may rate (in a similar sense to Guardiola seeing Pedro's talents when many didn't).
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Offline jDJ

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #138 on: June 26, 2012, 07:27:38 PM »
I personally didn't think Bellamy was that impressive last season and I'm not that convinced he fits the Rodgers' mould especially well.  I'm not saying that's a reason to offload.  I think we've got a number of players who don't fit the exact profile of a Rodgers player but we won't sell them all straight away and some will still be useful players to the manager while they're still at the club.

I wouldn't be that devastated if we sold him though.  Doesn't play often enough or well enough these days to sit in the "must keep" category where the likes of Gerrard, Lucas, Agger, Skrtel, Reina, etc. sit.

Offline dewisaint

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #139 on: June 26, 2012, 07:42:42 PM »
My god my local locksmith would have a field day in ths stf
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Offline Tony18:5

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #140 on: June 26, 2012, 07:53:47 PM »
I think Bellamy is a cracking player, never wanted him to leave the first time, although events dictated so.

We'd never get near a player of his quality for the fee we'd receive.

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Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #141 on: June 26, 2012, 07:56:53 PM »
Whats his wages, anyone know for certain ?


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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #142 on: June 26, 2012, 07:58:50 PM »
Just stay calm, all will become clearer as time goes on.
As for Gylfi, he may well want to join but his club have to be happy with any deal that is offered, they prefer Spurs' bid, so have given him permission to speak to them, that doesnt mean he doesnt want to come here, also its out now what the situation is so if we really need him here we'll sort our bid out, if not no big deal.
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Offline lfcmaster

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #143 on: June 26, 2012, 08:30:15 PM »
Will be an interesting summer

Still 2 months to go

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #144 on: June 26, 2012, 08:49:33 PM »
Id rather lose Downing than Bellamy and that is saying something if you take into account Bellamy's wage and fitness worries.
Why are we all so concerned with wages, Bellamy is a match winner
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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #145 on: June 26, 2012, 09:08:06 PM »
I think we get too het up about individual transfers, the redevelopment of anfield is in many ways more important in the medium to long term than short term transfers....

Let's try and take a more medium to long term view to our signings and to our new manager eh?
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2012, 09:22:25 PM »
Why are we all so concerned with wages, Bellamy is a match winner
Yip- some are more equal than others. As I recall, the owners don't really have an aversion to high wages- where necessary.
We pay for those goals and the impact he makes, including putting teams on the backfoot allowing us to have a chance.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 09:42:38 PM by the_red_pill »

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Offline Reeves

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #147 on: June 26, 2012, 10:22:18 PM »
Sure, it's a risk just not a big one in my book. We weren't good last year. We're not breaking up the '27 Yankees or Kenny's '87-'88 side here. We're talking about a player who's 33-years-old next month, has questionable fitness, and tailed off badly the last three months of the year. It's not a huge leap to see those three things as related. Conversely, he has some attributes to his game that we genuinely lack, he's a good character, and he loves the club. The most important factor for me, though, is he's just about guaranteed to leave next summer. So the choice is to pocket ~2m now or have him play 20-25 games next year while spending ~4m and receiving nothing when he leaves. So for me it comes back to what type of role he's going to have in the squad for that one year and what we could do with that ~6m total we'd make/save.

If we think he's the type of player whose contribution will tip the scales between fourth and not-fourth then it's an easy decision. 4m is nothing in that discussion. I don't happen to think he's that player, though. More importantly, I think we could get a decent approximation of his contribution/role from Sterling/Eccleston/New Signing. The most important factor for me, however, is that each of those three alternatives to Bellamy, unlike Craig, have a chance to contribute to our squad beyond next season. With that in mind I can understand a decision to save a decent chunk of change, reinvest it into the squad, and turn the keys for that role over to the new triumverate.

He scored 9 goals last year of varying importance. That's a decent return, but it's not earth-shattering and I think it's fair to assume that's the very best we could hope for next season. In fact, I think it's wise to expect less than that considering Father Time's role in things. Could we get 7 or 8 goals in ~35 games from Sterling/Eccleston/New Signing? I don't think that's an overly-optimistic expectation. I'd say it's probably reasonable and may even be extremely pessimistic depending on who that new signing turns out to be. Again, we're not talking about replacing Digger circa 1988. It comes back to that cliche of selling a player a year early rather than a year late. Unfortunately that cliche is usually related to selling someone we like and could use, not just the Poulsen's of the world.

I'm not sure what people expect from Craig next year. If you're expecting 15 goals and 40 appearances then yeah we should probably keep him, but I'd brace for some disappointment. If, like me, you're looking for something around 5+ goals from 25-odd appearances then you need to ask yourself if that is something we can get from other members of our current squad. If so, then I think you save the 6m and turn to those other options. If not (or if you expect a greater return from Craig) then we should keep him. Like I've said before, I don't think there's a wrong choice here.

This is a very good post. I favoured keeping him but after reading that intelligent analysis i'm unsure. Good work
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Offline sandwichescorner

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #148 on: June 26, 2012, 11:13:18 PM »
I don't think anyone expects 15-20 goals; and we all know appearances will only get more sparing as long as Bellamy plays for a top flight club.

But every time he came on last season, I felt more optimistic about our chances of scoring. He lifts and pushes those around him as much as any player I've ever seen (including Stevie), to meet his own high standards. His goal/appearance ratio is not as important as the influence he has on the players around him.

Frankly, players with that winning mentality are rare enough and the last thing we should do is lose the ones we have.

And remember we've also lost Kuyt, a dependable, reliable player if nothing else. Bellamy, Maxi, gone as well, and the wide areas really do look thin.

Offline YoungKopite

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #149 on: June 26, 2012, 11:21:57 PM »
I really hope we don't sell him. I can't believe some of the posts I'm reading in this thread.

The man literally showed more bottle than most of our squad did last season, including Stevie. His free kicks were fantastic last season, setup quite a few goals for us too and can literally change an entire game on his day. Not to mention he brings so much pace to our team which we lack at times. I know he isn't the most reliable winger to have as he struggles to play twice a week, but we're in more competitions next season with Europa and regardless of his wages, he adds quality to our team. He's capable of helping us challenge for top four therefore that itself should be enough for us to keep onto him for another year.

In the tournament matches, I think having a player like Craig around would be fantastic. We were able to always play a fairly strong team in all competitions, and having already lost Kuyt I think it would be a bad decision to move him on if we also move on Maxi. Both who I hope, still have something to contribute next season.

Offline Tomo!

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #150 on: June 26, 2012, 11:57:32 PM »
I'm sure city factored in his age, wages, injuries etc when they released him.
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Offline jeremyh94

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2012, 12:16:09 AM »
I say keep him till January at least.
And whenever he does go, I'm sure it will be with good grace.

Offline Arcadian

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #152 on: June 27, 2012, 12:21:16 AM »

Bellamy's second coming was a home run for everyone involved IMHO.

He got away from Mancini whom he clearly detested, and got to play football again. He produced for us on a free, and at times was hugely influential. He scored, he put himself about, he got to play for LFC and Kenny, keep funding his charity and raise his profile and now if he does indeed go, sad as I'll be, he leaves us with good performances and a touted million or two, which will better service than he gave his former employers.

Vork, you're right though... There are definitely limits on what any team can expect from him and because of that I agree that come what may, it's really another win/win for LFC and Craig Douglas Bellamy.


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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2012, 12:21:21 AM »
If we're selling him I hope we get the timing right, as in at the very end of the transfer window, when we have already bought enough of a combination of strikers and wingers to not need him.  Its not like selling him then will lose us much money.

Offline lazzathered

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #154 on: June 27, 2012, 12:40:16 AM »
If he wants to leave I think we should respect his wishes. But I would much rather keep him. He is vastly experienced and as a former enfant terrible he could take any rowdy youngsters under his wing and show them how to better themselves.

As has been said before, he has a winning mentality. He is passionate, a great option off the bench and is also good at set pieces. Certainly keep him until we adequately replace him, then when he does have to go, give him a proper Kop send off and thank him for his service

Online jackh

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2012, 12:59:57 AM »
If we're selling him I hope we get the timing right, as in at the very end of the transfer window, when we have already bought enough of a combination of strikers and wingers to not need him.  Its not like selling him then will lose us much money.

Given that Cardiff are the club involved, I would anticipate that all parties involved would be happy to agree a deal in principle/a conditional offer - probably with a view to it being postponed until January/next Summer (on a first-refusual basis), if our Summer doesn't go to plan.

As I did say earlier in the topic though, I'd be really sad to see Craig Bellamy leave - he's not a player we expect or plan to depend on week-upon-week but I can't think of anybody better placed to share duties with Raheem Sterling whilst we introduce him to the first team.
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Offline ziggyy

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #156 on: June 27, 2012, 01:35:07 AM »
The only problem about him is that he can't play every game..

now that kuyt is gone, we should try to hang on to him for awhile longer while Rodgers settles in.  His desire to win may rub off on some of the new or young ones.

We do need some quality players around too while the new team settles down.

Offline Shannon

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2012, 02:09:30 AM »
The only problem about him is that he can't play every game..


Neither can Gerrard. In fact the only person who can is Pepe.

Having Giggs, Scholes and Park on the bench hasn't hurt United's recent campaign, nor has it stunted their youth.
“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” Martin Luther King

Offline ziggyy

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2012, 02:25:32 AM »
Neither can Gerrard. In fact the only person who can is Pepe.

Having Giggs, Scholes and Park on the bench hasn't hurt United's recent campaign, nor has it stunted their youth.

Meant it in a good way.  We'll probably be much higher in the league if he could play a few more games.

That seems to be his only flaw.... reasonable wages (I think), great quality, intelligent and can actually score goals. 

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Craig Bellamy
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2012, 01:27:14 PM »
He's one of our best players in my opinion. Would be crazy to sell him, we need goals enough as it is, why sell one of our best goalscorers for barely any money ? Couldn't care less if he can only play half our games, he's a massive goal threat

Would sell Downing before Bellamy. Craig's infinitely better