Author Topic: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy  (Read 1162 times)

Offline RojoLeón

  • Brentie's #1 fan
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,020
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/paul-krugman-alien-invasion_n_1609805.html

Paul Krugman: Prepare For Alien Invasion -- And Spend Our Way To Economic Recovery

Economist Paul Krugman has a simple solution to America's economic woes: Prepare for an alien invasion.

Arguing that the United States successfully ended the Great Depression with government spending, he provided an interesting idea about how to replicate that economic feat on Tuesday at the Take Back the American Dream conference in Washington, D.C.

"If you actually look at what took us out of the Great Depression," the Princeton University professor said in an interview with Chris Hayes of MSNBC. "It was Europe's entry into World War II and the U.S. buildup that began in advance."

"So if we could get something that could cause the government to say, ‘Oh, never mind those budget things; let’s just spend and do a bunch of stuff.' So my fake threat from space aliens is the other route,” Krugman said before a laughing crowd. “I’ve been proposing that.”

The Princeton professor and New York Times columnist is a well-known fan of science fiction, which might explain his imaginative plan to spur an economic recovery.

Krugman has offered up his space alien proposal before. Last year he told CNN about a "Twilight Zone" episode in which "scientists fake an alien threat in order to achieve world peace." He told CNN, "Well, this time ... we need it in order to get some fiscal stimulus."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/paul-krugman-alien-invasion_n_1612973.html

Nobel laureate economist Paul Krugman repeated his assertion this week that the United States could benefit economically if the government began pouring money into anti-ET defense in preparation for a possible alien invasion of Earth.

Even a faked war of the worlds scare might help, he suggested.

The Huffington Post reached out to some experts who share an intense interest in the idea that earthlings are not the only intelligent game in town -- or space.

We asked, If there were an ET threat and if the U.S. government were to suddenly rechannel its budgets into preparing an anti-alien defense, would that ultimately save our economy? Their responses varied, ranging from skepticism to enthusiasm.

Here is a sampling of their replies emailed to HuffPost:

    "I assume the alien attack is a euphemism designed to gain public support for that spending effort. Therefore, my position would be that the alien invasion he proposes to prepare for is with the mythical aliens. They are Hollywood contrivances and conveniently always have fatal vulnerabilities that humans can exploit. The good news in that scenario is we both defeat the evil aliens, and in this case, restore our economy." -- John Alexander, a retired Army colonel and developer of the concept of nonlethal defense at Los Alamos National Laboratory

    "Any aliens that have the capability to come here and ruin our whole day by vaporizing Earth or terrorizing its hominid inhabitants, would be centuries -- perhaps millennia -- beyond our technical level. To spend effort preparing for such a lugubrious possibility would be like the Neanderthals organizing their society to defend themselves against the U.S. Air Force. That won't do them much good on the battlefield. But who's to say? Maybe it would improve the Neanderthal economy." -- Seth Shostak, a senior astronomer at the SETI Institute and chair of the International Academy of Astronautics' SETI Permanent Committee

    "With just a little nudge, Krugman could become 'the one' economist to present a feasible Space Age stimulus package that would change the entire war-based economy and mentality into a Space Age one. The Cosmos Culture truth gets officially acknowledged. They land -- by invitation! New roles for the military industrial complex, entrepreneurs, worldwide, with huge benefits and opportunities for ALL! Space travel, hotels, space hospitals, schools, labs, farms, industries -- tech and info applied directly to solving urgent problems of human needs." -- Carol Rosin, aerospace executive, missile defense consultant and president of the Institute for Security and Cooperation in Outer Space

    "There is no way to prepare for an alien invasion. These theoretical visitors would have overwhelming superior technology. What we should do is spend the dollars on something useful, such as an all-out commitment to colonize Mars within ten years. The ripple effect would be dynamic and the challenge would once again awaken our pioneering spirit!" -- Fife Symington, a former governor of Arizona and Air Force officer, and witness to what he has called a huge UFO over Phoenix in 1997

    "Do we know what practices would be effective in resisting aliens? Wouldn't the public have to be convinced, in all countries, that there is such a threat? When have the major nations on this planet shown they can agree on any military course of action? Earthlings are already spending a trillion dollars a year on things military. Where would the money come from? Krugman seems to be suggesting more lies are what is needed. How about everybody cutting their military budgets in half and feeding people instead?" -- Stanton T. Friedman, a nuclear physicist who worked on classified programs for large companies and is an advocate of the idea that some UFOs originate from other planets

We arranged civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology We also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology This is a recipe for disaster We might get away with it for a while but sooner or later this combustible mix of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces CSgn

Offline -Q-

  • What's the Q for? The workhouse for the poor and the gallows for the left.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,053
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2012, 10:11:36 AM »
I assumed this was a parody until I checked further.  I know Krugman is an absolute idiot, but I didn't think he was nuts.
Welcome to Liverpool Brendan Rodgers
Quote from: Brendan Rodgers
Liverpool Football Club is the heartland of football folklore...     Liverpool are one of the dynasties of the game...     I will fight for my life for the supporters and the people of this city

Offline jaffod

  • Living a double life as Billy Bunter after midnight. Has until July 3rd to figure out what from his womans clothing range to wear.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,531
  • Common beermat and towel thief.
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2012, 11:43:51 AM »
Is it any wonder the worlds' economies are so fucked up?

Offline Finn Solomon

  • Prefers a stroke from a thin whippy cane
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,564
  • I love Coutinho's balls
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 03:11:59 PM »
This could work. What if an alien fleet dropped out of the sky tomorrow? We need to be prepared.
Twitter - FinnSolomon
Rafa made it so that you didn't give a shit which fucking ball emerged from Platini's jar.

Online Zeb

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,595
  • Justice.
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 01:03:10 PM »
Keynes was being equally serious when he suggested digging holes to create jobs.



"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,928
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 01:55:30 PM »
I assumed this was a parody until I checked further.  I know Krugman is an absolute idiot, but I didn't think he was nuts.

He's neither. You're dealing with a country (America) where one of the two main parties will only countenance more government spending if it's on defence. He's actually making a very valid point, that government spending does lift economies and that if the Republicans continue to block any and every plan to help the economy, maybe they might react to a threat better. Essentially, he's saying, look, you're all so fucking thick that maybe the Fox News approach of scaring you into action might work.

I think it's hilarious.

Offline -Q-

  • What's the Q for? The workhouse for the poor and the gallows for the left.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,053
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 02:53:59 PM »
He's neither. You're dealing with a country (America) where one of the two main parties will only countenance more government spending if it's on defence.

The GOP approach to government spending is ridiculous and they are equally culpable in the present economic crisis.  However, a lot of it is rhetorical as they happily spend on all manner of things and pork projects when in power.  Bush increased Federal government spending across the board.

Quote
He's actually making a very valid point, that government spending does lift economies

Except that it doesn't.  If it did, the government could be spending us all to prosperity.  Granted, government spending has an effect on the economy, but there are no free lunches.  Where does government get the money they are spending? Government does not possess a magical money fairy, they have not found the pot of gold at the rainbow (even if they did they'd only be inflating the money supply by spending it).

There is no easy way out of problem the advanced industrial nations got themselves into.  We are living through a necessary economic correction, best thing to do is let it take its natural course and accept that there is no magic bullet that will reduce debt and deliver growth - not even "austerity" (even if were to actually engage in it, which we are not).

Quote
and that if the Republicans continue to block any and every plan to help the economy

False premise that any of the plans can actually help the economy.
Welcome to Liverpool Brendan Rodgers
Quote from: Brendan Rodgers
Liverpool Football Club is the heartland of football folklore...     Liverpool are one of the dynasties of the game...     I will fight for my life for the supporters and the people of this city

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,928
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 03:04:00 PM »
Except that it doesn't.  If it did, the government could be spending us all to prosperity.

Except the GOP won't let them.

Quote
False premise that any of the plans can actually help the economy.

You asserted that my view on government spending was wrong (without evidence) and then asserted that my premise, that unspecified plans to help the economy would in fact help the economy, was a false premise. This is the debating equivalent of "you're wrong because you're wrong".

Offline nyctex

  • God Bless America
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,677
  • It's our f%#&@*! perch Mr Ferguson, you ass
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 03:23:32 PM »
Except the GOP won't let them.


Obama's "stimulus" passed in Congress.  And then failed in practice.  Your premise is being proved false as we speak throughout the world. 

Government spending can be, in certain situations, a catalyst.  The problem is Western Europe and the US don't fit that model anymore.  The government is already spending so much and in control of so much of their economies already that there is no room for a boost from "stimulus" spending by the government.  It is pushing on a string at this point.  It simply drives up the debt with little to show. 

However there is one place that tried something different.  The socialist utopia of Sweden.

Quote

Booming Sweden’s Free-Market Solution

By Anders Aslund Jun 6, 2012 7:00 PM ET

Not so long ago, Sweden could claim world leadership in unmitigated Keynesian economics, with a 90 percent marginal tax rate and a welfare state second to none.

Now Swedes look at the conflict between the U.S. and German examples over whether more spending or more austerity is the key to financial salvation, and for them the choice is easy: Germany was right. Northern Europe harbors no sympathy for the spendthrifts of Southern Europe.

Americans still think of Sweden as a tightly regulated social-welfare state, but in the last two decades the country has been reformed. Public spending has fallen by no less than one-fifth of gross domestic product, taxes have dropped and markets have opened up.

The situation is similar in the other Scandinavian countries, the Baltic nations and Poland. But no turnabout has been as dramatic as Sweden’s.

From 1970 until 1989, taxes rose exorbitantly, killing private initiative, while entitlements became excessive. Laws were often altered and became unpredictable. As a consequence, Sweden endured two decades of low growth. In 1991-93, the country suffered a severe crash in real estate and banking that reduced GDP by 6 percent. Public spending had surged to 71.7 percent of GDP in 1993, and the budget deficit reached 11 percent of GDP.

Turning Point

The combination of the crisis and the non-socialist government under Carl Bildt from 1991 to 1994 broke the trend and turned the country around. In 1994, the Social Democrats returned to power and stayed until 2006. Instead of revoking the changes, they completed the fiscal tightening. In 2006, a non- socialist government returned, and Finance Minister Anders Borg, with his trademark ponytail and earring, has led further reforms. Sweden successfully weathered the global financial crisis that started in 2008, and the Financial Times named Borg Europe’s best finance minister last year.

Before 2009, Sweden had a budget surplus, and it has one again. For the past two years, economic growth has been 4 percent on average, and the current-account surplus was 6.7 percent in 2011. The only concerns are the depressed demand for exports caused by the current euro crisis and an unemployment rate that is about 7.5 percent.

Sweden’s traditional scourge is taxes, which used to be the highest in the world. The current government has cut them every year and abolished wealth taxes. Inheritance and gift taxes are also gone. Until 1990, the maximum marginal income tax rate was 90 percent. Today, it is 56.5 percent. That is still one of the world’s highest, after Belgium’s 59.4 and there is strong public support for a cut to 50 percent.

The 26 percent tax on corporate profits may seem reasonable from an American perspective, but Swedish business leaders want to reduce it to 20 percent. Tax competition is fierce in some parts of Europe. Most East European countries, for example, have slashed corporate taxes to 15-19 percent.

In the bad old days, the annual centralized-wage bargaining between the Trade Union Confederation and the Swedish Employers’ Confederation was a prized custom. But in the 1970s, this system led to both inflation and strikes. Today, it is long gone. Wage bargaining is still collective, but it is decentralized. Wage inflation is no longer a concern and strikes are extremely rare. The employers have won, but real wages are rising with productivity, so the workers are benefiting, as well. As everywhere, trade unions are losing members, money and power.

Debt Averse

Sweden has belonged to the European Union since 1995, but it isn’t a member of the euro area, and the exchange rate of its krona floats freely. Finance Minister Borg argues against a more expansionary policy in Sweden in case Europe faces a real meltdown. After the Keynesian financial and monetary stimulus in the 1970s and ’80s, which led to inflation, repeated devaluations and low growth, Swedes believe in fiscal discipline. They are scared of huge national debt and budget deficits -- especially at the levels they are in the U.S.

Where are the left-wing intellectuals to challenge this new order? They have disappeared. The old socialist research organizations have closed down. The Center for Labor Market Studies was a state institution that generated propaganda, not research, and the government closed it. The Trade Union Confederation had a sophisticated research institute, which it eliminated for not being sufficiently political.

The union economists, who dominated Swedish economic debate in the 1970s and ’80s, have been replaced by bank economists. The free-market right has influential research centers in Stockholm.

After many years of absence from the debate, I attended a conference on the Swedish economy in the southern city of Malmo last month. Swedbank, a large bank, was the organizer, and the 180 speakers represented the full range of Swedish views. I was amazed to hear how far the consensus had moved to the free- market right, even among Social Democrats and trade-union leaders. The values are competition, openness and efficiency, while social and environmental values remain -- a social-welfare society without the social-welfare state. The idea is to make it more efficient through competition among private providers.

The name of the conference said it all: “Growth Days.” Wanja Lundby-Wedin, the president of the Trade Union Confederation, declared without hesitation: “We want flexibility in the labor market.” She complained that the media no longer pay attention to the labor market. The reason is that it functions so well.

During the global financial crisis, the metalworkers’ union quietly agreed to major wage cuts to safeguard their real incomes in the long run. The leader of that union, Stefan Lofven, has just been elected chairman of the Social Democratic Workers’ Party.

Moving Right

The Social Democrats haven’t only joined the free-market consensus, but seem to attack the current government from the right, pushing for a better business environment. Gone are demands for the restoration of social benefits. Opinion polls have rewarded the Social Democrats for their right turn with sharply improved ratings.

Sweden is still offering good social welfare, but more efficiently and sensibly and increasingly through the private sector. This model of falling taxes and public spending is rapidly proliferating from the north of Europe toward the south, and the northern Europeans have little tolerance for the statist conservatism and fiscal negligence of Southern Europe. Nor do the Swedes understand the fiscal irresponsibility of the U.S., while they still admire American research and innovation.

(Anders Aslund is a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and was a professor at the Stockholm School of Economics from 1989 until 1994. The opinions expressed are his own.)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-06/booming-sweden-s-free-market-solution.html


Also remember the Krugman's solution to the tech bubble bursting in the early 2000s was...... well I'll let him tell it

Quote
To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/02/opinion/dubya-s-double-dip.html


so beware of economic solutions proposed by Krugman when he is in full on political hack mode

Offline -Q-

  • What's the Q for? The workhouse for the poor and the gallows for the left.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,053
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 03:25:13 PM »
Except the GOP won't let them.

You asserted that my view on government spending was wrong (without evidence) and then asserted that my premise, that unspecified plans to help the economy would in fact help the economy, was a false premise. This is the debating equivalent of "you're wrong because you're wrong".

I'd love to go into this, but I just don't have the time at the moment and I'm trying to avoid getting into arguments so it is more like "You're wrong but I've gone through this 100x before and never gotten anywhere and I really don't have the time to get into another pointless three-day debate where I spend several hours a night defending myself, one lone individual pitted against the massed ranks of the RAWKite socialist collective."  ;D

Krugman now wants an alien-defence spending bubble to replace the stimulus bubble that followed the housing bubble he advocated for after the bursting of the dotcom/Nasdaq bubble. Suffice to say, he is full of hot air.
Welcome to Liverpool Brendan Rodgers
Quote from: Brendan Rodgers
Liverpool Football Club is the heartland of football folklore...     Liverpool are one of the dynasties of the game...     I will fight for my life for the supporters and the people of this city

Offline Finn Solomon

  • Prefers a stroke from a thin whippy cane
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,564
  • I love Coutinho's balls
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2012, 03:36:05 PM »
Obama's "stimulus" passed in Congress.  And then failed in practice. Your premise is being proved false as we speak throughout the world. 

His stimulus did exactly what it was supposed to do, start a recovery of the economy. The fact that you're blaming him for it not magically fixing the world with a wave of a wand speaks volumes.
Twitter - FinnSolomon
Rafa made it so that you didn't give a shit which fucking ball emerged from Platini's jar.

Offline SP

  • The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,203
  • .
    • .
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 03:44:14 PM »
Isn't this exactly how Al Qaeda spring into being?
Norman Bettison is laughing at you.

http://tinyurl.com/bettison

Online lfcderek

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 656
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 04:30:19 PM »
I'd love to go into this, but I just don't have the time at the moment and I'm trying to avoid getting into arguments so it is more like "You're wrong but I've gone through this 100x before and never gotten anywhere and I really don't have the time to get into another pointless three-day debate where I spend several hours a night defending myself, one lone individual pitted against the massed ranks of the RAWKite socialist collective."  ;D

Krugman now wants an alien-defence spending bubble to replace the stimulus bubble that followed the housing bubble he advocated for after the bursting of the dotcom/Nasdaq bubble. Suffice to say, he is full of hot air.

But -Q-, don't you see that if you spend £100 billion more than you earn and it puts you in the shit. Spending £200 billion more than you earn will put it all right again.
Don't let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right.

Online Zeb

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,595
  • Justice.
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 10:10:14 PM »
But -Q-, don't you see that if you spend £100 billion more than you earn and it puts you in the shit. Spending £200 billion more than you earn will put it all right again.

And yet it moves...
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline rafathegaffa83

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,845
  • Dutch Class
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 10:41:39 PM »
I'd argue that it wasn't necessarily the American build-up to war that helped spur the US economy at the tail-end of the Depression, but more so the fact they had countries involved in the war began buying plenty of American goods prior to America's entry into the war. The U.S was pretty much economically neutral prior to Pearl Harbour, which allowed them to sell goods to both sides and thus reap the economic benefits. The unemployment rate went down post 1941, because many workers entered the military and others stepped in to take their jobs. After the war, the Marshall Plan gave away material goods, rather than necessarily just cash, which helped spark the contemporary consumer economy.

I think the contemporary economic issues will be here for a while, because of several factors:

1) Lack of regulation of financial institutions, which allows in many countries to not have a delineation between the regular banks and their investing firms. In Canada for instance, investment arms have to be a separate entity from major banks in order to prevent the likelihood of them going under. In other countries this doesn't exist, which makes them more vulnerable.

2) There are high levels of personal debt, which make it difficult to jump-start the economy in much of the western world. If you have people who are graduating university with anywhere between $100,000-$200,000 worth of debt, how on earth can one expect them to buy houses, cars or other big ticket items without sinking further into debt, especially if their entry level jobs are paying wages that are pretty much scandalous in relation to the level of education required for them. Now to be fair in some respects part of this problem might be due to the fact a generation of students were told in many countries not to go to college or learn a trade, but go to university instead, when they were ill-equipped to do so and could have just as easily been successful working as an electrician or a plumber, rather than spending four years doing something that wasn't for them. Add to that you have a generation of aging workers who possibly pre-financial crisis would have retired by now, but who have likely lost much of their retirement savings and thus will try to hang on a few years more, which prevents heavily indebted recent grads from a) getting well-paid employment and experience in their fields b) "getting on with their lives" (i.e. getting married, buying homes, etc)

3) a) Countries with lax tax collection schemes, such as Greece (see Michael Lewis' Boomerang for example) who borrow huge amounts of money from wealthier countries, but don't implement policies to actually enforce tax collection b) loopholes exploited by corporations/wealthy individuals with the idea that their tax breaks are "creating jobs." Why should Warren Buffett's secretary be subject to a higher tax rate than he is?

I wouldn't have a clue of how they will resolve it, but they need a long-term solution, especially as the "Baby Boomers" age. I think some are probably hoping once the Boomers retire, that it will spark a new economic boom. Although I do think  that may be difficult if a) many new grads can't get experience in some fields or at least experience with a decent wage, because there are experienced personnel in their way who are clinging on until they are forced out and/or b) companies and governments opt to phase out the positions currently held by Boomers, rather than directly replace them.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 10:43:55 PM by rafathegaffa83 »

Offline ttnbd

  • RAWK Chief Financial Officer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,996
  • ANFIELD4EVER
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 11:17:39 PM »
The Nazi's are back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEueJnsu80&skipcontrinter=1

Anyway, the arms race leading upto WW2 probably had the main contributory factor to get the world out of the great depression.
So all say thanks to the Shanks

He never walked alone

Lets sing our song for all the world

From this his Liverpool home

Offline RojoLeón

  • Brentie's #1 fan
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,020
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 11:56:20 PM »
I assumed this was a parody until I checked further.  I know Krugman is an absolute idiot, but I didn't think he was nuts.

So there was me wondering why you don't like Krugman - then I read this, and it all fell into place

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged#section_4

Quote
. Nobel Prize-winning economist and liberal commentator Paul Krugman alluded to an oft-quoted quip[56] in his blog: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."[57]

 ;D
We arranged civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology We also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology This is a recipe for disaster We might get away with it for a while but sooner or later this combustible mix of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces CSgn

Offline Finn Solomon

  • Prefers a stroke from a thin whippy cane
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,564
  • I love Coutinho's balls
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 07:42:51 AM »
Krugman is now my hero. ;D
Twitter - FinnSolomon
Rafa made it so that you didn't give a shit which fucking ball emerged from Platini's jar.

Offline -Q-

  • What's the Q for? The workhouse for the poor and the gallows for the left.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,053
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 09:25:59 AM »
So there was me wondering why you don't like Krugman - then I read this, and it all fell into place

I don't like him because he is very wrong yet achingly self-righteous.
Welcome to Liverpool Brendan Rodgers
Quote from: Brendan Rodgers
Liverpool Football Club is the heartland of football folklore...     Liverpool are one of the dynasties of the game...     I will fight for my life for the supporters and the people of this city

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,947
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 10:19:40 AM »
.....he is very wrong yet achingly self-righteous.

Ever gazed into one of these...

 ;)
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  - Sagan
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Law of Logical Argument   Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Believer in the Light Demons of Chunder-Upon-Tits - Corkboy

Online lfcderek

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 656
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 12:10:46 PM »
Ever gazed into one of these...

 ;)

"Self-righteousness (also called sanctimoniousness, sententiousness, a holier-than-thou attitudes[1]) is a feeling of (usually) smug moral superiority[2] derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person."

We're all guilty at times Gulley, even you and me.

With the full and certain confidence of my beliefs though - it's very rarely me.  ;D
Don't let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right.

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,947
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 12:17:22 PM »

Nah, I'm just the kid in the crowd pointing out that the tailors to the King have been taking the piss .... ;)


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  - Sagan
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Law of Logical Argument   Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Believer in the Light Demons of Chunder-Upon-Tits - Corkboy

Online lfcderek

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 656
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 01:01:09 PM »
Off topic Gulley, but I did read that link of yours re the Computer code (the discussion was getting nowhere and was wasting everyone's time so I quickly opted out). I'd been there before as there was a link in the original Climategate discussions - good article, good site.

"With the full and certain confidence of my beliefs" I remain a cynical (and sceptical) old git and tend to believe the worst.  :)
Don't let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right.

Offline RojoLeón

  • Brentie's #1 fan
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,020
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 12:02:13 AM »
Isn't this exactly how Al Qaeda spring into being?

Beware the new Al Qaeda - even more insideous and terror inducing than the last lot!

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20120626/D9VKGBS02.html

AP Exclusive: Al-Qaida trains Norwegian to attack
 
STOCKHOLM (AP) - A Norwegian man has received terrorist training from al-Qaida's offshoot in Yemen and is awaiting orders to carry out an attack on the West, officials from three European security agencies told The Associated Press on Monday.

Western intelligence officials have long feared such a scenario - a convert to Islam who is trained in terrorist methods and can blend in easily in Europe and the United States, traveling without visa restrictions.

Officials from three European security agencies confirmed Monday the man is "operational," meaning he has completed his training and is about to receive a target. All spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case publicly. They declined to name the man, who has not been accused of a crime.

"We believe he is operational and he is probably about to get his target," one security official said. "And that target is probably in the West."


 
A security official in a second European country confirmed the information, adding: "From what I understand, a specific target has not been established."

European security services, including in Norway, have warned in recent years of homegrown, radicalized Muslims traveling to terror training camps in conflict zones. Many of the known cases involve young men with family roots in Muslim countries.

But the latest case involves a man in his 30s with no immigrant background, the officials said. After converting to Islam in 2008, he quickly became radicalized and traveled to Yemen to receive terror training, one of the officials said. The man spent "some months" in Yemen and is still believed to be there, he said.

The official said the man has no criminal record, which would also make him an ideal recruit for al-Qaida.

"Not even a parking ticket," he said. "He's completely clean and he can travel anywhere."

The official would not specify what preventive measures were being taken but said "there is a well-established relationship between Western security services, and they share the information needed to prevent terrorism."

The officials declined to specify what makes them think the man is operational.

Signs that a would-be jihadist is ready for an attack could include the creation of so-called martyrdom videos for release online in conjunction with an attack, or an abrupt cutoff of communication and contacts with peers to avoid detection.

The man has not been accused of a crime in Norway, where traveling abroad to attend terror training camps is not a crime per se. In many European countries, suspects are not named unless they have been formally charged with a crime.

Yemeni military officials said they had information on Europeans training with al-Qaida in the southern part of the country but that they weren't aware of a Norwegian being among them. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

CIA and FBI officials in the U.S. declined to comment on the AP report.

Trond Hugubakken, a spokesman for Norway's PST security service, also declined to comment on the case. He referred to a PST security assessment in February, which highlighted that "several" Islamic extremists have traveled from Norway to conflict zones to attend training camps.

Hugubakken acknowledged that converts who turn to violent extremism pose a particular challenge.

"Converts will have a different level of cover, especially if they have no criminal record," he said, adding that most Muslim converts do not turn to extremism.

There are several examples in Europe and the U.S. of converts linked to terror plots, from failed shoe-bomber Richard Reid, a British convert, to a Pennsylvania woman dubbed "Jihad Jane," who pleaded guilty last year to charges that she plotted to kill a Swedish cartoonist who caricatured Islam's Prophet Muhammad.

Norway saw the first convictions under its anti-terror laws this year when two men were given prison terms in January for plotting to attack a Danish newspaper that also had caricatured the Prophet Muhammad.

In March, Mullah Krekar, a radical Iraqi-born cleric who came to Norway as a refugee, was sentenced to five years in prison for making death threats against Norwegian officials and three Kurdish men he claimed had insulted Islam.

But Norway's most serious attacks happened last year at the hands of a right-wing, anti-Muslim extremist, Anders Behring Breivik, who admitted to killing 77 people in a bombing-and-shooting massacre on July 22. The self-styled militant's trial ended last week with conflicting claims about whether he is criminally insane. A verdict has been set for Aug. 24
We arranged civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology We also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology This is a recipe for disaster We might get away with it for a while but sooner or later this combustible mix of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces CSgn

Offline -Q-

  • What's the Q for? The workhouse for the poor and the gallows for the left.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,053
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2012, 09:13:25 AM »
I don't like him because he is very wrong yet achingly self-righteous.
Ever gazed into one of these...
 ;)

Difference is, I'm right.  ;D
Welcome to Liverpool Brendan Rodgers
Quote from: Brendan Rodgers
Liverpool Football Club is the heartland of football folklore...     Liverpool are one of the dynasties of the game...     I will fight for my life for the supporters and the people of this city

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,947
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 09:16:21 AM »
Difference is, I'm right.  ;D
But if I agreed with you, that would make both of us wrong. ;)
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  - Sagan
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Law of Logical Argument   Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Believer in the Light Demons of Chunder-Upon-Tits - Corkboy

Online redmark

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,379
    • Save Liverpool FC
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 12:55:35 PM »
We are living through a necessary economic correction, best thing to do is let it take its natural course and accept that there is no magic bullet that will reduce debt and deliver growth - not even "austerity" (even if were to actually engage in it, which we are not).

Is that like a 'natural' disaster? So economic orthodoxy has no responsibility for cyclical boom and busts? It's all just inevitable. Nonsense.
Today, truth.
Tomorrow, justice for the 96.

Offline Ken-Obi

  • Hasn't got Wan, doesn't deserve Wan
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,573
  • Hello there!
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 01:01:21 PM »
What if the aliens look like ginormous squids?
No matter how old you are, no matter how badass you think you are, if a toddler hands you their ringing toy phone, you answer it!

Offline Finn Solomon

  • Prefers a stroke from a thin whippy cane
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,564
  • I love Coutinho's balls
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 02:08:27 PM »
What if the aliens look like ginormous squids?

Watchmen squids or Reaper invasion?
Twitter - FinnSolomon
Rafa made it so that you didn't give a shit which fucking ball emerged from Platini's jar.

Offline SP

  • The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,203
  • .
    • .
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 02:26:28 PM »
What if the aliens look like ginormous squids?

It would solve the Economic Crisis. Everyone would be squids in.
Norman Bettison is laughing at you.

http://tinyurl.com/bettison

Offline -Q-

  • What's the Q for? The workhouse for the poor and the gallows for the left.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,053
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 02:45:42 PM »
Is that like a 'natural' disaster? So economic orthodoxy has no responsibility for cyclical boom and busts? It's all just inevitable. Nonsense.

To a certain degree, business cycles and bubbles will occur within various industries and markets, yes, but these are usually short-lived and self-contained without much problem - the economic correction occurs.  Interfering with natural economic processes leads to unintended consequences and greater problems, and an economy wide "boom and bust" is created by government meddling, deliberately stoking the boom changing the underlying economic conditions (particularly by central bank policies, such as by lowering interest rates to encourage borrowing).  Gordon Brown declared he had "ended boom and bust" when he had merely massively inflated the boom.  Reality will always assert itself.
Welcome to Liverpool Brendan Rodgers
Quote from: Brendan Rodgers
Liverpool Football Club is the heartland of football folklore...     Liverpool are one of the dynasties of the game...     I will fight for my life for the supporters and the people of this city

Offline corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,928
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 02:56:21 PM »
Reality will always assert itself.

Economics is only reality based in retrospect. It's expectation based.

Offline -Q-

  • What's the Q for? The workhouse for the poor and the gallows for the left.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,053
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 03:18:04 PM »
Economics is only reality based in retrospect. It's expectation based.

... until the inevitable crash.

Expectations play a role, particularly in the short-term (hence Cameron et al's argument re: cutting the deficit).  Most economic policy has actually been delusion based; the further govt wishes, desires and expectations depart from reality, the harder the correction.  There is an underlying economic reality whether or not people want to accept it.
Welcome to Liverpool Brendan Rodgers
Quote from: Brendan Rodgers
Liverpool Football Club is the heartland of football folklore...     Liverpool are one of the dynasties of the game...     I will fight for my life for the supporters and the people of this city

Online zabadoh

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,918
  • Walk on with hope in your heart
Re: Nobel Laureate's Alien Invasion Defense Idea To Save Economy
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 10:59:09 PM »
Krugman's right in one respect:  That a vibrant economy depends upon the free flow of capital, goods and services from one party to another and back again.  When money has no reason to move, that's where we get stagnation.

Right now, corporations, banks, and 1%ers  hold the vast majority of cash.  If the government had to come up with some reason for them to spend it, or takes it away in the form of taxes and we know the gov't is going to spend any cash it can get its hands on, then the economy benefits.

If an ET invasion is imminent, the wealthy will spend money on bunkers, alien language lessons, and death-ray proof hats, and so forth.  Money that would otherwise be sitting in their bank accounts, doing nothing like it is right now.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 11:04:32 PM by zabadoh »
Anyway, like an ex-girlfriend's cleavage, it's probably the last we'll see of these two tits.