Topic: A novel thought in recent times, let's talk football and footballers...

[Z e u s]

I was bored at work yesterday and watched the BBC clip of England training. The last bit showed crosses from the left and right into the box, with pairs of forwards trying to put the ball away past a reserve keeper. Carroll was just awful. Miskicks, missed ball, hopeless time again and again. Rooney just embarrassed him.

Yes I was watching it as well, it was worrying and just another example that he isn't really a top class finisher.  Even at the end of last season when he was playing well such as against Chelsea in the FA Cup Final, his finishing was letting him down.

Big risk relying on him to be our main finisher next season.

[What's the procedure Mr Mod?]

I hope for the team that Gerrard and Lucas are fit and firing at the start and throughout the season, obviously. But I also hope they're playing regularly so that Henderdson can absorb the world class qualities of both, in a midfield 3.

Both Lucas and Henderson will give and go and ensure possession is maintained, Henderson will hopefully be more comfortable doing this alongsude Lucas and not try to force play and lose possession. Gerrard will help him going forward, when to kick on and when not, having Lucas as a trusty anchor will also help this. Both know when to spread the play and when to keep it short which is something Henderson lacks. Lucas, alongside the Rodgers defensive system, will help him learn the strict defensive positional play as sometimes he can wander.

I rate Henderson, his quality is clear but he's young and needs to find his role and tidy his game up, but his attitude and fitness is excellent and he'll thrive and flourish alongside these two and under Rodgers.

For me anyway, this is exciting, and I'm looking forward to watching it develop.

[jeremyh94]

I hope we develop two styles of attacking: one with Carroll, one without.
And this time, all the players realise that everyone plays a bit differently depending on which style we are using.
I thought we saw that for the first time against Chelsea at Wembley.

[rola]

One thing I'm really interested in is who, out of the current playing staff, might be a perfect fit with Rodgers and establish themselves as a regular first teamer.  I'm thinking here of players who wouldn't be the natural 1st choice of most people - someone currently on the margins, in the stiffs, on loan or a youth player. 

Coates as a ball playing defender?  Sterling as a pacy, attacking and skilful winger/inside forward? 

As others have mentioned, there's a massive playing squad and wealth of talent for Rodgers to assess - will be an opportunity for players to impress.

[ac]

While I am really excited about Rodgers, he is no miracle worker and I still believe serious investment (4-5 players) is needed for us to challenge the top 4. I've read we need to sell to spend above 30m so I hope we sell the likes of Adam, Carroll and Downing. To that end I hope the last two have great tournaments for England. 

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

One thing I'm really interested in is who, out of the current playing staff, might be a perfect fit with Rodgers and establish themselves as a regular first teamer.  I'm thinking here of players who wouldn't be the natural 1st choice of most people - someone currently on the margins, in the stiffs, on loan or a youth player. 

Coates as a ball playing defender?  Sterling as a pacy, attacking and skilful winger/inside forward? 

As others have mentioned, there's a massive playing squad and wealth of talent for Rodgers to assess - will be an opportunity for players to impress.

Maxi

[rola]

Maxi

I thought about Maxi too.  As an inside forward do you reckon?

Wonder if his stamina levels are up to the pressing game Rodgers is said to favour?  Then again, if we kept the ball for longer periods it wouldn't matter so much.  Having to press for 20-30% of game a different prospect to 50%. 

[KirkVanHouten]

Get rid of anyone who is worth what they're being paid, we need to use our resources as effectively as posible and £100k a week for Joe Cole is the complete opposite of that.

[KirkVanHouten]

I thought about Maxi too.  As an inside forward do you reckon?

Wonder if his stamina levels are up to the pressing game Rodgers is said to favour?  Then again, if we kept the ball for longer periods it wouldn't matter so much.  Having to press for 20-30% of game a different prospect to 50%.

Good point about stamina, if we retain possesion effectively enough maybe Adam could run out an entire game.

[Billy The Kid.]

Maxi

I thought the same myself

Although the one player who I'm really looking forward to seeing play under Rodgers is Henderson. Like Lucas, Henderson can pass the ball intricately and quickly in and around the midfield. Something which I think Rodgers will impress on them both even further. I can see Lucas and Henderson forging quiet a partnership. 

[Cracking Left Foot]

I thought the same myself

Although the one player who I'm really looking forward to seeing play under Rodgers is Henderson. Like Lucas, Henderson can pass the ball intricately and quickly in and around the midfield. Something which I think Rodgers will impress on them both even further. I can see Lucas and Henderson forging quiet a partnership. 

yeah I thought that too funnily enough. Put Lucas and Henderson together, and I think you'll see a massive improvement in Henderson's confidence and ability. People forget that Charlie Adam was pretty good when partnered with Lucas, it was only when Lucas was injured that it all went tits up for Adam.

Can definitely see Henderson flourishing under BR.

[vivabobbygraham]

To be honest mate, I'm sick and tired of all the cack. I just thought it would be nice to have a thread where people could just talk about football, the new manager and how he'll use the players... anything about LFC and actual football without all the added bollocks.

I'm in, FS.

For me I wanna see us open up teams from CB. In these days of tactics and fucking zones and all that malarkey, the auld centre half has become a too defensive position on the field. With Agger, Coates, Skrtel and Kelly, we have ball players, let's use them to break out a la Hansen, Lawrenson, Gillespie, crazy horse and even Thommo liked to get foward (not a typo). I'm not averse to utilising 3 cb's if they can all play cos it keeps the opposition on the back foot if they are unsure who's gonna join midfield and further. We've forgotten the 'libero' role and I hope the Brendan fellah is partial to a little bit of it. Beckenbaur and the like were masters at it  Jan the man even, and many more I've forgotten. Innovation is what is called for in this new era.

[Fat Scouser]

I'm in, FS.

I was talking to a mate Bobby. I put the thread in as a bit of a bet/laugh. We wondered how long people would just talk footy before all the other crap crept in. When I posted it, I felt like a fat cheer leader for Shoot magazine or something. But it seems people do still like chatting about LFC and football with out the added cack. And I agree mate, the game's far too much about pace and power nowadays. Jockie used to really get on my wick, every other word was pace or power. I like a bit of guile, and a bit of thinking football.

I remember Romario, the Brazilian striker, scoring a cracking, crafty little goal in the World Cup. It just got blanked. Nobody took a blind bit of notice. All they were interested in were big dramatic pile drivers and so on. Romario's looked like a tap in, but I'll try and dig it up. A cracking little goal.

[Fat Scouser]

Ahh fuck Romario and Brazil. What would you give for a bit of this again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuSbsp7FHbI

[vivabobbygraham]

Ahh fuck Romario and Brazil. What would you give for a bit of this again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuSbsp7FHbI

Fucking hell, remember them all well, FS. The semi replay was me absolute fave closely folleyed by the flicky up and volley against Sours. A pure fucking thoroughbred mate and what was he like in his first season?


As for the little Brazilian fellah, take yer pick, mate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Lm5lVNTg0

[Twelfth Customer]

Yes I was watching it as well, it was worrying and just another example that he isn't really a top class finisher.  Even at the end of last season when he was playing well such as against Chelsea in the FA Cup Final, his finishing was letting him down.

Big risk relying on him to be our main finisher next season.

I don't even think he's Premiership level. The Ukrainian school kids were rolling on the floor laughing at him. Foreigner's particularly from countries where technique is valued view him as a donkey. Last season I was in a bar full of east-European reds, as passionate as any I have met, they all thought he was a joke. Carroll at best is a £35m substitute for the last 15 minutes when plan A is not working and we want to go Neanderthal.


Would be quite pleased to see Rodgers make some tough decisions and sell Carroll and Downing this summer.

[Fat Scouser]

Still makes me laugh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERem3t768wI&feature=fvwrel

[TheTeflonJohn]

Jesus that goal against Spurs. Id take him back now over one or two of our current players. Perm, tash the fuckin lot

[TheTeflonJohn]

I don't even think he's Premiership level. The Ukrainian school kids were rolling on the floor laughing at him. Foreigner's particularly from countries where technique is valued view him as a donkey. Last season I was in a bar full of east-European reds, as passionate as any I have met, they all thought he was a joke. Carroll at best is a £35m substitute for the last 15 minutes when plan A is not working and we want to go Neanderthal.


Would be quite pleased to see Rodgers make some tough decisions and sell Carroll and Downing this summer.

Harsh to say the least

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Still makes me laugh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERem3t768wI&feature=fvwrel

Haha yes, brilliant it was, would have looked a daft c*nt if it'd have gone in though

[BIGdavalad]

I don't even think he's Premiership level.

Yet he completely changed the game and was about half an inch from equalising against the current European Champions in the FA Cup final.

I think if we can sort his support out he could be a very good player for us.

[MushyP15]

Just out of interest, am I the only prick who goes into every season thinking we can win the league?

If we keep our current squad and make some decent additions I don't see my unfounded optimism changing anytime soon.

[Twelfth Customer]

Yet he completely changed the game and was about half an inch from equalising against the current European Champions in the FA Cup final.

I think if we can sort his support out he could be a very good player for us.

Very likeable lad, have given him full support when I have been fortunate to see him live, but his movement (lack of) and touch is appalling. That little cameo rather glosses over a poor season overall. I hope Rodgers can improve him and Downing. If we don't get a penalty box finisher this summer, i think we will struggle to get goals from our front two again next season. Plus we no longer have Kuyt to chip in with some gaols.

[fowlermagic]

If I was Rodgers I ask each and everyone of our squad to skip a weeks hols, come in to the training ground at 7am for the first week or two and make some notes on which lad already is not giving him 110%. Any attitude issues, lip or constant lateness or laziness and he should ship them out. Those who show heart can then head off with the manager for a good old session on the long weekend to Spain where some team building can start fresh

[hedger]

If I was Rodgers I ask each and everyone of our squad to skip a weeks hols, come in to the training ground at 7am for the first week or two and make some notes on which lad already is not giving him 110%. Any attitude issues, lip or constant lateness or laziness and he should ship them out. Those who show heart can then head off with the manager for a good old session on the long weekend to Spain where some team building can start fresh

Masterplan

[BIGdavalad]

Very likeable lad, have given him full support when I have been fortunate to see him live

I meant support from midfield, not the stands.

[Redeo]

Yes I was watching it as well, it was worrying and just another example that he isn't really a top class finisher.  Even at the end of last season when he was playing well such as against Chelsea in the FA Cup Final, his finishing was letting him down.

Big risk relying on him to be our main finisher next season.

link?

[John C]

While I am really excited about Rodgers, he is no miracle worker and I still believe serious investment (4-5 players) is needed for us to challenge the top 4. I've read we need to sell to spend above 30m so I hope we sell the likes of Adam, Carroll and Downing. To that end I hope the last two have great tournaments for England. 

Many thought Kenny was a miracle worker ac, turns out whatever words of wisdom he had didn't translate on to the pitch as often as we'd wish. So that leaves us with a manager that, in terms of football as FS wants, has spoken not about players having a smile on their face or enjoying their football, but about systems and expectations of a player. I expect improved football eventually.
I do find it surprising that threads are full of named formations, why? Its pointless because we will acquire at least 2 if not 3 first team starters, so lets not be putting Cole, Adam or Aquilani in any formation just yet.

[vivabobbygraham]

Terry McDermott, Terry McDermott, Kerry McDermott, player of the year, player of the 20th Century, and don't get me started on Jimmy Case you fucking heathens....

[Fat Scouser]

Just out of interest, am I the only prick who goes into every season thinking we can win the league?

 

I go into every season expecting to win every game we play, let alone any trophy. The team used to do that. We might have won the league a couple of times in the last 20 years, if they still did. It's something I hope Rodgers instills in them, conviction with a bit of arrogance, and an us and them mentality. Fuck this new nice LFC. Give me feared and hated over liked and media friendly, any day of the week.

[john_mac]

I went into last season believeing we could win the league but not really thinking we would, still didn't stop me partng with a few quid on it and a few more on us winning the FA Cup.

Think it will be harder this year, inevitably with a new manager. Just hope he gets teh support he needs all round, from us, from the players, owners and everybody else at the club. Its a going to be a difficult season, more so if he has to sell players to bring others in.
Not sure that the playing style will receive the radical overhaul some seem to think neccesary but maybe a pushback to the first 12 months of Kenny's reign, before the Suarez incident and the sudden need for results to be paramount.

Its not going to happen overnight, and selling the likes of Carroll & Downing now for way below their value, well that is just fucken stupid, but what else would you expect? What I hope Brendan will do is take some time to assimilate the quality he has, pre-season will be difficult to do that with so many away, Euro's & Olympics, throw in an early start for UEFA and Pre-season is out of the window, making the transfer window a short one for the new manager.

I don't think that the owners will be ploughing any great sums in this time round, or any other time round, come to that.

Worries me, the over-expectation that some have already put on the managers head, sorry but its not fair. I hope and believe we'll do well and will support him through thick and thin, but this expectation that he is going to do x, y and z, well its nothing short of fucken stupid. I'll go into every game believeing we will win it, but if we fall a little bit short, we need to get behind them, support them, not turn on the manager after 12 months, pine for Rafa or any such shite.

Lets give him the time he requires to develop something, let him the time it takes to build the team he wants. Personally think he's got a much better base to start from than many appear to. I think he has inherited a stronger squad than Kenny, than Rafa or than Ged, I don't think that our league position was an accurate reflection of the players ability and certainly not potential. Only Brendan will know.

It is hard to tell, but if you truly believe that the manager has the ability to do this, get down the game, get behind him and his team, give him the time to do the job, don't fucken turn at the first sign of problems, stick together, fuck everyone else, fuck the media, fuck Everton & fuck United. The manager and the team he picks are what's important not why we signed Downing or didn't sign Matta.

Ahh fuck it, we'll win the league

[rednose54]

I was made up the Summer break arrived when it did, now you`ve got me appetite going again COME ON YOU REDS YOU.

[redmark]

Yet he completely changed the game and was about half an inch from equalising against the current European Champions in the FA Cup final.

I think if we can sort his support out he could be a very good player for us.

But Dalglish actually liked a bit of directness in attack. Rodgers is going to have us play more patiently and with more intricate buildup - and, given our own higher line, in a more compressed area. Ideally that needs a striker who can drop and linkup with good touch, passing and movement (a Suarez false 9, perhaps) or a real pact, goal scoring threat to pin back the opposition and give an outlet running off the back of their defence. Carroll looking arsed for a month or two doesn't turn him into Ian Rush.

[BIGdavalad]

But Dalglish actually liked a bit of directness in attack. Rodgers is going to have us play more patiently and with more intricate buildup - and, given our own higher line, in a more compressed area. Ideally that needs a striker who can drop and linkup with good touch, passing and movement (a Suarez false 9, perhaps) or a real pact, goal scoring threat to pin back the opposition and give an outlet running off the back of their defence. Carroll looking arsed for a month or two doesn't turn him into Ian Rush.

It doesn't but it does show what he can do when he tries. I don't see any reason why he can't do well for us next season if he plays - we've got Suarez to play the false nine/deep forward/trequartista/number ten or whatever else you want to call it so that leaves one or two other 'forwards' slots to be filled. I don't see any reason why Carroll, playing like he did for the last few weeks of the season, can't take one of them.

[kenworthy]

I go into every season expecting to win every game we play, let alone any trophy. The team used to do that. We might have won the league a couple of times in the last 20 years, if they still did. It's something I hope Rodgers instills in them, conviction with a bit of arrogance, and an us and them mentality. Fuck this new nice LFC. Give me feared and hated over liked and media friendly, any day of the week.

This is truth. Enough said. That's what we need to get back to and I have faith in Rodgers in that. Make Anfield feared. Make the club feared. He's already said he desires as much.

Getting back to the OP. I'm sure Our new manger has an idea of who suits his ideals and philosophy and who doesn't. Those he's unsure about I'm sure he'll give a fair crack. When it comes to two of the most-talked about returning from loans: Cole and Aquilani, I have a few thoughts. Yes, they both probably fit Rodgers' philosophy. But IMHO I think Cole is more likely to stay than Aquilani. Again, just my opinion and nothing to do with ability. Cole wants to be in England, Aquilani doesn't. It comes down to that for me. And they'll both be tough to offload. And to be fair, that could all change if Aquilani sees an opportunity under the new manager. This is just my opinion right now.

On an aside and pertaining to the debate over style of play with Rodgers and Dalglish. It's not like we didn't play beautiful football at times last season. We talk about the direct style under King Kenny and how Rodgers will have us play a style that is less direct and revolves around a more deliberate build-up. Yes, that's true. But we got back to a passing game last season under the King that was very beautiful at times. And maybe I'm on my own here, but last season there were times I wish we played more direct because we played this intricate passing game (a-la Swansea) with little result. We outpassed and outpossesed teams all season. So to say Kenny played a more direct game I think is a bit of a misnomer.

[lfcderek]

It doesn't but it does show what he can do when he tries. I don't see any reason why he can't do well for us next season if he plays - we've got Suarez to play the false nine/deep forward/trequartista/number ten or whatever else you want to call it so that leaves one or two other 'forwards' slots to be filled. I don't see any reason why Carroll, playing like he did for the last few weeks of the season, can't take one of them.

And neither do I.

If we get BR's system working 3/4s of the Anfield games will be the opposition 'parking the bus'. If the triangles do get us round the back of them we'll have one of the best headers in the PL to make use.

If they end up with their last men along the penalty spot line then Carroll drifting left or right along that line is going to cause mayhem. If just one CB stays with him then he will win ball after ball for a directed nod down. If they double mark him then more space is created to go through the middle.

If he's central he's bloody difficult to physically prevent others from playing wall passes off him.

When he does put it about he really does scare the shit out of CBs.

[Z e u s]

we'll have one of the best headers in the PL to make use.

Carroll's heading toward goal has been very disappointing.  As has his finishing in general.  It is a shame as the rest of his game is really progressing.

[redmark]

And neither do I.

If we get BR's system working 3/4s of the Anfield games will be the opposition 'parking the bus'. If the triangles do get us round the back of them we'll have one of the best headers in the PL to make use.

If they end up with their last men along the penalty spot line then Carroll drifting left or right along that line is going to cause mayhem. If just one CB stays with him then he will win ball after ball for a directed nod down. If they double mark him then more space is created to go through the middle.

If he's central he's bloody difficult to physically prevent others from playing wall passes off him.

When he does put it about he really does scare the shit out of CBs.

I don't necessarily dispute any of that - but with the type of football we should be playing, a different type of striker - quicker, more clinical - can be more damaging. It isn't simply about what Carroll offers as an individual, but whether a different sort of striker might be a better fit.

[BIGdavalad]

If he's central he's bloody difficult to physically prevent others from playing wall passes off him.

When he does put it about he really does scare the shit out of CBs.

He's a fucking big lad and he should be hard as nails. He didn't show enough of that last year but if he can this year he could be a very big asset for us. We have to stop thinking that just because he's playing we've got to have a 'floated through ball' from Carragher every forty five seconds for the entire match though.

[mart356]

I was bored at work yesterday and watched the BBC clip of England training. The last bit showed crosses from the left and right into the box, with pairs of forwards trying to put the ball away past a reserve keeper. Carroll was just awful. Miskicks, missed ball, hopeless time again and again. Rooney just embarrassed him.

wheres that clip mate? cant find it