Topic: Downing admits embarrassment

[Melbred]

And you just have the article, not the context in which he gave those answers. When talking to journalist about not scoring any goals for your club, how can you not sound defensive in response?

It's not the first time that he's come out with something like this. I recall another piece not long ago where he passed the buck on to other players, rather than taking taking responsibility himself. Something along the lines of, I've been bad, but others have been bad too.

As for his mentality on the pitch, it's clear for everyone to see. No responsibility and constantly hiding.

[jaffod]

If I was him I'd have been more embarrassed about standing back and watching Enrique do his own job as well as mine. No wonder Enrique was fucked by January.

[hiphopdj]

Was not to embarrassed to pick up his wages tho

[unusg]

Said it before and will say it again. He isnt good enough technically or mentally to play for this club. It is the latter i cant accept.

we have had plenty of players who werent good enough but were prepared to give it a go. you cant say that about downing last season. he's a coward.

[MichaelA]

If I was him I'd have been more embarrassed about standing back and watching Enrique do his own job as well as mine. No wonder Enrique was fucked by January.

This is a much more entertaining reply than several dozen "hes' shit, sell him" replies.

He's got a big summer ahead of him - a good run in the Euros will help his confidence, and then he has to prove himself to a new boss when he returns to Melwood. He's not going anyway, so the usual rules apply - support the man in the red shirt. I hope that he can come up to the mark for Mr Rodgers.

[lorenzo23]

This is a much more entertaining reply than several dozen "hes' shit, sell him" replies.

He's got a big summer ahead of him - a good run in the Euros will help his confidence, and then he has to prove himself to a new boss when he returns to Melwood. He's not going anyway, so the usual rules apply - support the man in the red shirt. I hope that he can come up to the mark for Mr Rodgers.

In fairness mate don't you think guy that has played good 5 plus years in this league should not be all about confidence by now? people say its cause Liverpool big club ok fair enough but he played for England and the pressure they get is high as well yet he has performed on number of times.

I think he been shown for what he is average player he was massive let down for KK and he only seem to come out with defensive replies/excuses for his performances, seems to me he is man in a shell never willing to come out. The key for me about players if your above average you should be able to adept to any formation/tactic/country/ etc the list goes on should not be finding so many excuses specially at age 27/28.

Maybe your rite but i can see England doing poorly and Downing maybe getting slaughtered in papers and him finding some sort of excuses, can also see him do ok in pre-season then going back into his shell come the start of the season.

[The Grinch]

And about six months later, Kenny stated "he's an even better player than we thought he was when we bought him".

It's the role of the DoF to recruit players, it's the Managers job to try and boost the confidence of those players. The player though has to be able to take that public support, take it onboard and to work his nuts off and improve. Andy Carroll was able to do that for whatever reason Stewart Downing wasn't.

What did you expect Kenny to do come out and crucify one of his own players and pass the buck, if you did you simply don't know the man.

Let's hope Rodgers can give Downing a far simpler, far more defined role and get a bit of fire in his belly because for me Downing started off really well but faded the second Tony Hibbert whacked him in the first Derby.

[Melbred]

It's the role of the DoF to recruit players, it's the Managers job to try and boost the confidence of those players. The player though has to be able to take that public support, take it onboard and to work his nuts off and improve. Andy Carroll was able to do that for whatever reason Stewart Downing wasn't.

What did you expect Kenny to do come out and crucify one of his own players and pass the buck, if you did you simply don't know the man.

The manager is also responsible for picking the players who play on game day, just because we spent 20m on him doesn't mean he deserves a starting spot.

[Cusamano]

I don't blame downing.

Its the people who thought he was good enough in the first place.

[TheTeflonJohn]

I don't read this as an admission of an embarrassing season, i read it as Downing defending his season and passing off his poor statistical season as a collective issue or even passing the blame onto other players for not finishing his chances. Quite a defensive conversation really.

He'll be in for a shock if he believes this season's performances were good enough. Still he's only had the one season, he should be afforded another to demonstrate he can do better.

Thats exactly how I read it. Poor little Stewie and his embarrassment.

I see he doesn`t mention his amazing ability to go missing when the chips are down. I see he doesn`t mention how he doesn`t burst blood vessels to turn things around ala Kuyt, Lucas etc. I see he doesn`t mention his overall total and utter lack of passion. Fuck me even Big Andy showed fight and passion when he was constantly falling on his arse.

Poor little Stewie

[PJG]

He's clearly not a player who enjoys freedom.  Give him clear instructions, or in other words, train him like a dog, and he could be alright.  He's got the techinque and ability, just not the mentality. 

[stevenseagal]

I find the part where he basically says 'it's not my fault our strikers aren't good enough to finish the chances I created' slightly pathetic and passing the buck.

People always say its his confidence and not his ability, but f you're playing the game of football you can't lack confidence in doing what you do on the pitch, its when you start thinking about the crowd getting on your back for a poor attempt at goal etc etc that maybe puts you off trying. However, a player with that sort of mentality should not be playing for LFC, especially a guy of his age and experience. He's not 17 years old is he?

We were always linked with him under Rafa when he would have cost much less than £20 million but Rafa never did go for him and I think his mentality is why. He disappears against the big teams. My least favourite LFC player.

[Z e u s]

I hope he gets his head sorted, maybe the new coaching staff can get in his ear, because he's pretty much got the same attributes as Antonio Valencia if he sorts his attitude out. Would like to see it.

We'd all love to see it, but Valencia is arguably the best wide player in the league (he isthe best IMO) and he is far more direct and dynamic than Downing.  Downing doesn't have that raw pace Valencia has.

[BUSHMILLS]

It's the role of the DoF to recruit players, it's the Managers job to try and boost the confidence of those players. The player though has to be able to take that public support, take it onboard and to work his nuts off and improve. Andy Carroll was able to do that for whatever reason Stewart Downing wasn't.

What did you expect Kenny to do come out and crucify one of his own players and pass the buck, if you did you simply don't know the man.

Some players need their confidence boosting, others need a kick up the arse (in private).

Whatever motivational tactics were used on Downing, they didn't work.

[aoaaron]

Pointless. Utterly pointless.

Downing is not a bad player, he's had a bad season, but he is not a bad player. Sell him and we're back to square one, no wingers. Look at Manc United, look at their wing options, and you'll see 3, 4, 5 wingers that can come in at anytime whenever one winger hits a dip in form (which they all do). Downing started brightly, faded, had an upturn in form for a few games around January/Febuary then faded (well, dropped off the face of the earth) again.

Completely agree. I think this is a very sensible response to a poor season with Downing which did have promise until the whole team slumped.

We need more options and he can be one of them. When he played for Villa, he played differently. He was not constantly hugging the touchline and I can't help but think a lot of our players underperformed last season so maybe it was the tactics (or lack of) to blame. Time to get off his back and support him. Everyone deserves a second chance and the circumstances for the latter half of the season were hardly optimum for him to stand up and have a real go.

[aoaaron]

We'd all love to see it, but Valencia is arguably the best wide player in the league (he isthe best IMO) and he is far more direct and dynamic than Downing.  Downing doesn't have that raw pace Valencia has.

Yes... but also no.

You have to give credit where its due and it is to Valencia's manager. Valencia looked very good at Wigan but Ferguson has brought on his game leaps and bounds, whilst providing him with plenty of competition, rotation and even adapting his game to right back if ever its required.

Put Valencia in another team and I think we'd see a dip in the level of his performances. Quite simply, the system and United with their wingers always gets the best out of them. Nani at times can look unplayable although hes a terribly inconsistent player, Ashley young has looked phenomenal this season too, apart from the diving.

[RideTheWalrus]

Try being a fan and watching you for 38 matches, not that's embarrassing.

[smicer07]

I think everyone is incredibly harsh on Downing. If we'd stuck away even half of the guilt-edged chances he helped to create, we'd be calling him a good player.

[surfer]

You can't honestly use the 'he's a good player' argument for a wideman who mostly struggles to go past any full back above Championship level.

What he can be though, is functional in a system that has organised attacks as its base. I would expect a player like him to hit something like 6 - 8 goals and 6 - 8 asists in a season - Dirk Kuyt-like numbers - if Downing had someone like Rafa for a manager.

Rodgers also makes use of organised attacks from what I have seen of Swansea (which is just a few games) ; if he stays, Downing will likely do better next season. When that happens, don't be naive and start a look at him now, he's proving you wrong thread.

The kind of quality that will take the team up a level in that position is the penetration a Torres / Luis can provide. Downing is never that, but used right, he can do a job. 

[Z e u s]

We need more options and he can be one of them. When he played for Villa, he played differently. He was not constantly hugging the touchline and I can't help but think a lot of our players underperformed last season so maybe it was the tactics (or lack of) to blame. Time to get off his back and support him. Everyone deserves a second chance and the circumstances for the latter half of the season were hardly optimum for him to stand up and have a real go.

Everyone doesn't deserve a second chance.

We didn't give Gonzalez a second chance or Nunez or Kromkamp or Keane or other players that left in a season (or less in Keane's case).

Yes we need options.  But those options need to either get assists, get goals or offer some kind of threat.  Downing didn't do any of those three consistently.  So I see no point in keeping a player who won't be a match winner or won't be an impact player.

We could still get a decent fee for Downing, as he found his level at a club like Villa (or previously Boro) and he could contribute, therefore plenty of clubs will give us a fee betwee £8 -£12 million for him.  But at LFC where you have to offer more, with more scrutiny and it is about character just as much as ability - Downing hasn't cut it.  He is also not young enough to develop, this is a player who is 28 and should be totally used to the league, has fully developed as a player and should have hit the ground running.

I can understand people being patient with a player like Carroll, who along with Downing was disappointing last season.  But at least you can see potential with Carroll (as we saw in the last few matches) and he is young enough to develop.  Downing is different and he hasn't shown enough quality as a player or enough character as an individual to succeed here.

Get what we can and invest it into a player who could be a hit here.  Our attack was blunt last season and Downing was a large reason for that.

[tomred]

He needs to man up, stop making excuses, and work his bollocks off next season, because if he doesn't he'll be gone, despite having the ability. Basically he has to go out there and take control of his career.

[kennedy81]

He needs to man up, stop making excuses, and work his bollocks off next season, because if he doesn't he'll be gone, despite having the ability. Basically he has to go out there and take control of his career.

this is it really.
he'll have nowhere to hide in Rodgers style of play, where everyone will be expected to show for a pass and work hard.
I'd like to see him redeem himself and repay some of the faith that Kenny showed in him.

[aoaaron]

Everyone doesn't deserve a second chance.

We didn't give Gonzalez a second chance or Nunez or Kromkamp or Keane or other players that left in a season (or less in Keane's case).

Yes we need options.  But those options need to either get assists, get goals or offer some kind of threat.  Downing didn't do any of those three consistently.  So I see no point in keeping a player who won't be a match winner or won't be an impact player.

We could still get a decent fee for Downing, as he found his level at a club like Villa (or previously Boro) and he could contribute, therefore plenty of clubs will give us a fee betwee £8 -£12 million for him.  But at LFC where you have to offer more, with more scrutiny and it is about character just as much as ability - Downing hasn't cut it.  He is also not young enough to develop, this is a player who is 28 and should be totally used to the league, has fully developed as a player and should have hit the ground running.

I can understand people being patient with a player like Carroll, who along with Downing was disappointing last season.  But at least you can see potential with Carroll (as we saw in the last few matches) and he is young enough to develop.  Downing is different and he hasn't shown enough quality as a player or enough character as an individual to succeed here.

Get what we can and invest it into a player who could be a hit here.  Our attack was blunt last season and Downing was a large reason for that.

If you're going by that, then honestly we could discard plenty of players last season based on numbers and statistics yet Downing attracts most of the flack. Most of our players apart from the defence, Luas and Suarez were dreadful. A lot of arguments I see on here justifying the presence of a lot of players at our clubs are grasping on straws we would not have been a couple of seasons back.

If we can get 12M for him, I'd sell but I don't see us getting that. As said by many, buying him was really weird given FSG's outlined strategy and I can't help but feel Kenny & Commoli were that convinced that they insisted on his signing. I feel we'll take  a massive hit on him unless he has a good summer.

I personally think a bit controversially Gonzalez and Keane should have got more chances/playtime/patience to implicate themselves into the side.

[El_Pistolero]

Get what we can and invest it into a player who could be a hit here.  Our attack was blunt last season and Downing was a large reason for that.

No it wasn't. I can understand and agree with many of your points, but not this one.

Our attack was blunt because Carroll was static for 85% of the season, and hitting  the bar from two yards out. Kuyt had perfected the 'glance a header past the post from 6-yards' move and Suarez, although brilliant, was also missing sitters.

Downing put ball after ball after ball into that box, he did have a poor season overall but he wasn't the reason for our 'blunt' attack.

[Gnurglan]

Listen, if we are going to start selling players after one poor season then are we are on the road to nowhere. Yes he has been dogshit so far, but I can think of a few other players who the fans wanted to sell after their inital season, but ultimately progressed to become decent.

Give him a chance under Rodgers, we spent £20mil on the lad, if he is still lacking effort and goals/assists and heart this time next year, the by all means get rid.

It depends. I believe that trust should work both ways. You need to show something too. You can't just get to be first pick and offer very little and then get another season for free. Not when you're an experienced player, used to the league, country etc. We can't treat him, one of our key signings last summer, as if he's a player like Suso or Pacheco. We bought him to improve our league position and attacking threat. We invested a lot of money and a lot of faith in him. How well did he respond?

Now compare that to Bellamy. Maxi. Even Henderson. A young player, who I think showed more desire and overall a better mentality. Those are the options we have now for LM/RM. If we are to improve, we may have to sell one or two of those and get better players in. What has Downing done to earn more trust? Why should we keep him over those other three?

[And Could He Play]

Great, another player bashing thread.

[Bakez0151]

his volley against chelsea that hit the bar was naughty

woulda been belter if it went in

[Z e u s]

If you're going by that, then honestly we could discard plenty of players last season based on numbers and statistics yet Downing attracts most of the flack. Most of our players apart from the defence, Luas and Suarez were dreadful. A lot of arguments I see on here justifying the presence of a lot of players at our clubs are grasping on straws we would not have been a couple of seasons back.

If we can get 12M for him, I'd sell but I don't see us getting that. As said by many, buying him was really weird given FSG's outlined strategy and I can't help but feel Kenny & Commoli were that convinced that they insisted on his signing. I feel we'll take  a massive hit on him unless he has a good summer.

I personally think a bit controversially Gonzalez and Keane should have got more chances/playtime/patience to implicate themselves into the side.

You get rid of players who aren't good enough, have never proved anything at the club or show no potential.  A lot of players were poor last season but they have either shown in the past they are good enough (Reina) or show some signs of potential (Carroll or Henderson).  Downing doesn't show either.

Suarez was dreadful?  He got 18 goals didn't he?!  As well as offering significantl threat more than Downing.

No it wasn't. I can understand and agree with many of your points, but not this one.

Our attack was blunt because Carroll was static for 85% of the season, and hitting  the bar from two yards out. Kuyt had perfected the 'glance a header past the post from 6-yards' move and Suarez, although brilliant, was also missing sitters.

Downing put ball after ball after ball into that box, he did have a poor season overall but he wasn't the reason for our 'blunt' attack.

I didn't say he was the only reason for our blunt attack, he was a large reason.  Carroll and Downing were the two main reasons.  Both cost big, both didn't deliver.  Suarez, Bellamy and Maxi - showed significantl quality compared to those two.  Kuyt was another who disappointed, but again offered more than Downing.

[Z e u s]

Great, another player bashing thread.

Well it is simple.  If a player performs or shows potential - they won't get criticism.

Downing should be discussed, as he was toothless last season and many on here want to see him sold as a result.

It is one thing showing support to a player, it is another not debating whether or not he is good enough or should be part of our future.

You get scrutiny at a big club and if a player doesn't cut the mustard, they will get criticism.

[Gnurglan]

No it wasn't. I can understand and agree with many of your points, but not this one.

Our attack was blunt because Carroll was static for 85% of the season, and hitting  the bar from two yards out. Kuyt had perfected the 'glance a header past the post from 6-yards' move and Suarez, although brilliant, was also missing sitters.

Downing put ball after ball after ball into that box, he did have a poor season overall but he wasn't the reason for our 'blunt' attack.

Of course he was a big part of the reason. It wasn't just lack of luck or poor finishing. He wasn't good enough. Not even close.

To put that into context - if we look at the attacking players, only Suarez get a "pass" when we look at the goals+assists. We could give a "pass" to Bellamy and Maxi as well, because of the roles they played. The rest were not up to scratch. Including Downing. And Kuyt, Gerrard, Henderson and Carroll. Doesn't mean all of them should leave. But I don't think we can defend 0+0 from an experienced, leading attacking player. Who played part in 36 of 38 games.

[And Could He Play]

Zeus, its like a broken record, how many downing threads has there been? the points been made, he was shite, get over it.

[DutchRed]

He could be a fine player if he grows a set of balls.

[El_Pistolero]

I didn't say he was the only reason for our blunt attack, he was a large reason.  Carroll and Downing were the two main reasons.  Both cost big, both didn't deliver.  Suarez, Bellamy and Maxi - showed significantl quality compared to those two.  Kuyt was another who disappointed, but again offered more than Downing.

Kuyt was not better than Downing, he came up in the big games as usual but he was just as poor, if not poorer (I'm going for the latter myself), overall being as though he slowed 90% of our attacks down last season.

The strikers were the reason why we were poor in attack, not Downing. It's just bashing him for bashing's sake if you say otherwise, IMO.

Of course he was a big part of the reason. It wasn't just lack of luck or poor finishing. He wasn't good enough. Not even close.

To put that into context - if we look at the attacking players, only Suarez get a "pass" when we look at the goals+assists. We could give a "pass" to Bellamy and Maxi as well, because of the roles they played. The rest were not up to scratch. Including Downing. And Kuyt, Gerrard, Henderson and Carroll. Doesn't mean all of them should leave. But I don't think we can defend 0+0 from an experienced, leading attacking player. Who played part in 36 of 38 games.

Look, I'm not absolving him of blame here. He wasn't good enough, you're right.  But I also think he gets far too much stick around here, he should've scored more than he did (obviously) and he was poor in that department but I don't think he could've done much else for his assists column. We squandered dozens of chances which Downing created throughout the season, especially for the first 3-months or so.

[Z e u s]

Zeus, its like a broken record, how many downing threads has there been? the points been made, he was shite, get over it.

They have all been locked because for some reason we can't debate a player who was one of our biggest issues last season.

As long as people don't slag Downing off as a person and they are talking about him as a footballer, I don't see why we should debate whether or not he should have a future here.

I personally hope he is sold more than any other of our players.  Others want to see him have another chance.  Let's debate it.

[Paulie's Wallnuts]

I imagine the best thing to do is to not think at all and enjoy the football, over analysing a performance can lead to players doubting their own ability.

Downing is a good player, his head is not in the right place at all.

We should have a club psychiatrist, simply for the value it could get out of Downing.

Don't we have a sports psychologist or something along those lines already? Astonished if we don't judging from the amount of sport science people there

[Bakez0151]

he was absolutely terrorizing leighton baines 2nd half of the fa cup semi as well, supposedly the best PL left back and he was sprinting past him easy

[And Could He Play]

They have all been locked because for some reason we can't debate a player who was one of our biggest issues last season.

As long as people don't slag Downing off as a person and they are talking about him as a footballer, I don't see why we should debate whether or not he should have a future here.

I personally hope he is sold more than any other of our players.  Others want to see him have another chance.  Let's debate it.

whats the point though, what needed to be said has been said 100 times. or more. pointless thread. Serious they get locked for a reason, cos there all bollocks.

[Robo707]

Easy answer is by the player himself.

Stop talking about it, and just do the duty on the pitch next season - then you can throw it back in the faces of those who said 'Downing, 18 million pound player' or whatever stick Shit Sports News threw at him.

It's really that simple.

[QC]

What about his statistics for beating his marker?

[Z e u s]

Kuyt was not better than Downing, he came up in the big games as usual but he was just as poor, if not poorer (I'm going for the latter myself), overall being as though he slowed 90% of our attacks down last season.

The strikers were the reason why we were poor in attack, not Downing. It's just bashing him for bashing's sake if you say otherwise, IMO.

Kuyt got some goals / assists, which is why I'd say he was better, but both were poor.  Although Kuyt was a fringe player and Downing was a regular.

You can't just say our problems were down to the strikers, as Suarez got 18 goals - so he must have done something right.  Yes the strikers missed many chances, but so did Downing, they could have had more clear cut chances.

When you spend £20 million on a player who is in their prime and they get 0 goals and 0 assists in the league, they will get criticism and rightly so.  Yes he should have had some assists, I agree he put in some good balls which were not finished - like Carroll against Swansea.  But only he can be faulted for not scoring when he got chances and he did get many chances to score.  Only he can get criticism for refusing to run at full backs and often just playing the simple ball to Enrique as it is the safe and easy thing to do.

We need threat out wide and when Sterling came on vs Wigan, he beat more men and gave more threat in 10 minutes than Downing had for the previous 80 minutes.

He has some talent, not a lot, but some.  But what he doesn't have which is just as important at a club like ours is character and balls.