Topic: Captain Hero for Year Zero?

[Channo]

To me the question isn´t if Gerrard could do that, although I don´t think he could for an entire season/90 PL minutes. The question is why waste him there?

Nail. Head.

Gerrard could play anywhere. He's probably the best RW, RB AM and second forward in our team. But the guy has so much ability it's ridiculous, and we need to use him as effectively as possible for the team's benefit.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Bizarre thread.

Reading the OP makes me feel like I'm being abused with pyramid selling PR doublespeak. Although to be fair, that's been quite common on RAWK recently.

There's absolutely no reason to take the armband away from anybody, and even if Gerrard and Carragher both retired tomorrow, Lucas would still be 3rd choice at best. 

On top of that, these 'bold, innovative, whatever' owners that you like the taste of so much, probably have quite a few million reasons to keep a big name star like Stevie G™© around. Beyond the pitch, he's the Face of the Franchise. We're constantly told about football's push into Asia, but it's obvious our owners have the U.S. firmly in their sights as well, and it's not too difficult to understand why Gerrard, more than anyone else, will be the star of that campaign.

The success of the club is far more important in increasing our fan base abroad than having a club favourite as the "face of the franchise" - seems you've already forgotten how Kenny was handled. Secondly, if what you say is right, you'll know that most football interest in America is driven by the Latin contingent - which is why a young Spanish speaking manager such as Martinez who does the ESPN punditry over there was heavily considered. You can draw the obvious inferences about the future Brazil captain yourself.

[BarryCrocker]

The success of the club is far more important in increasing our fan base abroad than having a club favourite as the "face of the franchise" - seems you've already forgotten how Kenny was handled. Secondly, if what you say is right, you'll know that most football interest in America is driven by the Latin contingent - which is why a young Spanish speaking manager such as Martinez who does the ESPN punditry over there was heavily considered. You can draw the obvious inferences about the future Brazil captain yourself.

Jesus there is some serious bullshit on here.

FACT: Captains win matches, not fans.

[El_Pistolero]

England's best player again. Looks fit & hungry.

Can't wait to see the man back for us.

[The Flying Pig]

England's best player again. Looks fit & hungry.

Can't wait to see the man back for us.

As long as he comes back the same way.

[El_Pistolero]

As long as he comes back the same way.

Think he will. He actually looks properly fit now, rather that 50-75% he looked for us, less at times, at the back-end of the season.

[-Q-]

The success of the club is far more important in increasing our fan base abroad than having a club favourite as the "face of the franchise" - seems you've already forgotten how Kenny was handled. Secondly, if what you say is right, you'll know that most football interest in America is driven by the Latin contingent - which is why a young Spanish speaking manager such as Martinez who does the ESPN punditry over there was heavily considered. You can draw the obvious inferences about the future Brazil captain yourself.

Yes, let's get a manager that has Asian/South-American parents, grew up in North America and married a Scandinavian girl so we can get our fan-base a boost. Further let's buy players according to cultural/geographical advantages to gain masses of fans. Lastly let's make the player who has the broadest lineage and married someone from an important market area our captain. Because this is how it's done...winning trophies, who cares...selecting the captain every team-mate and manager respect, what a foolish move that is! 

[Benbo]

Looks like we don't need to sign a new defensive midfielder. Seems we already have one. 

[Litmanen Legend]

Looks like we don't need to sign a new defensive midfielder. Seems we already have one. 

To be fair in his early years Gerrard used to tackle and cover his defence very well. It might have been his injury problems or being pushed further up the pitch that caused him to lose that attrtibute. But for England v Ukraine he was bombing up and down the pitch, like the Gerrard we knew in his early teens. Let's hope that continues next season!

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Yes, let's get a manager that has Asian/South-American parents, grew up in North America and married a Scandinavian girl so we can get our fan-base a boost. Further let's buy players according to cultural/geographical advantages to gain masses of fans. Lastly let's make the player who has the broadest lineage and married someone from an important market area our captain. Because this is how it's done...winning trophies, who cares...selecting the captain every team-mate and manager respect, what a foolish move that is! 

Actually it's a major reason we should have bought Kagawa. Like it or not one of the owners strategies for increasing the revenues of the club is to exploit the Asian market. If you care about winning trophies you should care about us being able to compete financially with our rivals - and currently we are slipping further and furtehr behind financially. That's why the stadium issue is so crucial to us.

To make it really really simple for you i'll break it down in language even you can understand.

Success = more fans. More fans = more revenue. More revenue = better players. Better players = higher chance of success.

But it's OK Q mate you just keep watching the match for  30-yard screamers into the top corner as that's about as far as your appreciation of the game goes. Slightly higher than the level of an average six year old.

[didi shamone]

Jesus there is some serious bullshit on here.

FACT: Captains win matches, not fans.

Teams win matches not captains Facht.

[robgomm]

Actually it's a major reason we should have bought Kagawa. Like it or not one of the owners strategies for increasing the revenues of the club is to exploit the Asian market. If you care about winning trophies you should care about us being able to compete financially with our rivals - and currently we are slipping further and furtehr behind financially. That's why the stadium issue is so crucial to us.

To make it really really simple for you i'll break it down in language even you can understand.

Success = more fans. More fans = more revenue. More revenue = better players. Better players = higher chance of success.

But it's OK Q mate you just keep watching the match for  30-yard screamers into the top corner as that's about as far as your appreciation of the game goes. Slightly higher than the level of an average six year old.

You seem to be talking about signing people with the main idea that they will sell shirts. That's wrong headed in your formula and does not necessarily lead to success. You pick a manager because he appeals to the American market, how about how he appeals to the job of winning football matches?

[BarryCrocker]

Teams win matches not captains Facht.

Ok, lets not have a captain. And while we are at it lets forget Olympiakos, Istanbul and the FA Cup Final 2006. ALL great teams need a captain who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck and inspire those around them to never give up.

[filopastry]

Looks like we don't need to sign a new defensive midfielder. Seems we already have one. 

I think he'll end up playing alongside Lucas next season, with the pair of them being the deeper lying midfielders, I still wouldn't see him as being a replacement for Lucas though as the more defensive of the pair

[jaffod]

To make it really really simple for you i'll break it down in language even you can understand.

Success = more fans. More fans = more revenue. More revenue = better players. Better players = higher chance of success.

I prefer the Liverpool model.

Success = Daytipping gloryhunters. Daytripping gloryhunters = More revenue. More revenue = Vultures for owners/ massive transfer fees for dross. Vultures/ dross = mid-table mediocrity.

[TSC]

Actually it's a major reason we should have bought Kagawa. Like it or not one of the owners strategies for increasing the revenues of the club is to exploit the Asian market. If you care about winning trophies you should care about us being able to compete financially with our rivals - and currently we are slipping further and furtehr behind financially. That's why the stadium issue is so crucial to us.

To make it really really simple for you i'll break it down in language even you can understand.

Success = more fans. More fans = more revenue. More revenue = better players. Better players = higher chance of success.

But it's OK Q mate you just keep watching the match for  30-yard screamers into the top corner as that's about as far as your appreciation of the game goes. Slightly higher than the level of an average six year old.

Is that the UTD player you're referring to?  If so he's a sub signing cos Hazard fucked them off. You buy for success not to exploit some markets.  OK fair enough if one leads to the other.  However with your argument we may as well buy a mix of the national teams in the far east.  Wonder why we haven't done that?  Prob because we'd be relegated, which blows your argument out of the water.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

I prefer the Liverpool model.

Success = Daytipping gloryhunters. Daytripping gloryhunters = More revenue. More revenue = Vultures for owners/ massive transfer fees for dross. Vultures/ dross = mid-table mediocrity.

 

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Is that the UTD player you're referring to?  If so he's a sub signing cos Hazard fucked them off. You buy for success not to exploit some markets.  OK fair enough if one leads to the other.  However with your argument we may as well buy a mix of the national teams in the far east.  Wonder why we haven't done that?  Prob because we'd be relegated, which blows your argument out of the water.

Wow - you must be a fine legal mind.

So, just to get this straight, your straw man argument that we ignore everything else and buy a mix of far eastern players who might not play well together and get us relegated blows my argument out of the water? Nice one.

Im not the one saying we should have a "face of the franchise" - thats a different poster above writing about Gerrard - but if we WERE to have one it would make sense to choose on ethat would appeal most to the franchise target market wouldn't it? The point about Kagawa is if you have two different players you are thinking of buying and one comes with the advantage of potentially maximising your income from foreign markets - all other things being equal - you buy that one.

I am saying Gerrard's style is better suited to an explosive, low block, counter-attacking team where we draw the opposition onto us then use his pace, power, vision and dynamism to punch through them - the way Mourinho set up his Chelsea side to play or Ferguson sets up his United side to play. They are dangerous on the counter. BUt that's not the football we are going to play. For the type of football that Rodgers wants to play we press high up the pitch, we keep our players in the opposition half and probe them for openings. This means they have got time to get back but get pulled out of position as they chase the ball around. It means we need to patiently recirculate the ball, passing laterally and backwards and not giving possession away trying to force play. That's not Gerrard's game - that's Lucas's. It's why Lucas is by far the most important player at our club. MOre important than Gerrard. Mor eimportant than Pepe, Suarez, Agger, everyone. He's already one of the most important players for Brazil and will captain the senior team soon. That's BRAZIL. THE footballing superpower.

Gerrard has been a great footballer - arguably one of the Premiership's greatest, arguably one of our club's greatest. But he's no longer the best option for captain for the way Rodgers will set up to play. That's ignoring his injury record and the decrease in our points per game when he plays.  Im sure there will be a transition over the coming season and that transition should be to Lucas.

[DanA]

Looks like we don't need to sign a new defensive midfielder. Seems we already have one. 

Why did we sign Parker?... and nobody told me!

Parker is the defensive midfielder who played in the game you've alluding too. Not Gerrard, Gerrard is a superb player, Rooney just yesterday was singing his praise. Really it takes a short sighted, bitter, buffoon to suggest otherwise. But he's not a defensive midfielder, we don't really want him to be.

But looking at this thread I loathe the idiot who looks at Gerrard's season and uses it as evidence of a poor player. It doesn't take Einstein to figure out that after 6 months out of the game he's a little rusty to begin with, to then put him in a cast for a few month where he loses all his fitness (fighting off blood poisoning) that just magnified the problem. He was building fitness against the clock. He got it to a level where he was able to contribute, but that's never going to be the same as a full preseason and match fitness. Still he was solid if not his usual exceptional self.

When he did return after Christmas we had significant injuries to the squad (Lucas, Agger, Suarez, Bellamy, Adam, Johnson) and also a tired Enrique. And people (or moronic person) points to a win/loss ratio as evidence of Gerrard lack of ability. Ludicrous   

[viteslesrouges]

Wow - you must be a fine legal mind.

So, just to get this straight, your straw man argument that we ignore everything else and buy a mix of far eastern players who might not play well together and get us relegated blows my argument out of the water? Nice one.

Im not the one saying we should have a "face of the franchise" - thats a different poster above writing about Gerrard - but if we WERE to have one it would make sense to choose on ethat would appeal most to the franchise target market wouldn't it? The point about Kagawa is if you have two different players you are thinking of buying and one comes with the advantage of potentially maximising your income from foreign markets - all other things being equal - you buy that one.

I am saying Gerrard's style is better suited to an explosive, low block, counter-attacking team where we draw the opposition onto us then use his pace, power, vision and dynamism to punch through them - the way Mourinho set up his Chelsea side to play or Ferguson sets up his United side to play. They are dangerous on the counter. BUt that's not the football we are going to play. For the type of football that Rodgers wants to play we press high up the pitch, we keep our players in the opposition half and probe them for openings. This means they have got time to get back but get pulled out of position as they chase the ball around. It means we need to patiently recirculate the ball, passing laterally and backwards and not giving possession away trying to force play. That's not Gerrard's game - that's Lucas's. It's why Lucas is by far the most important player at our club. MOre important than Gerrard. Mor eimportant than Pepe, Suarez, Agger, everyone. He's already one of the most important players for Brazil and will captain the senior team soon. That's BRAZIL. THE footballing superpower.

Gerrard has been a great footballer - arguably one of the Premiership's greatest, arguably one of our club's greatest. But he's no longer the best option for captain for the way Rodgers will set up to play. That's ignoring his injury record and the decrease in our points per game when he plays.  Im sure there will be a transition over the coming season and that transition should be to Lucas.

Knob.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Knob.

 

 Not interested in what you had for lunch.

[Anywhichwayucan]

 Not interested in what you had for lunch.

[Halibut-Thumb]

winning matches/trophies gets more more support than national affinity.. I live in Australia, pretty sure I see a fuck ton more people walking around in Gerrard and Rooney shirts than Cahill or Neill shirts.

[Vidocq]

[Wirral1]

Aren't you ashamed to spread malicious rumours to support your agenda against our players? It's just pathetic and ridiculous.

Gerrard's managers do the real work... and you troll online forums with nonsense like this, each according to their knowledge and abilities.

Look at our results...when he plays CM...when he doesn't...

[Wirral1]

Yes, it's a term that describes a player's role in the team. It's a role that applies to Lucas, but not to any of the players you listed. Especially not Agger. He's a defender.
Oh, that's simply a term too, is it?

Mark Lawrenson was a defender too....he played a number of times as a defensive midfielder for us......Agger is the most similar player we have to him.......or is Mark Lawrenson just a 'term' too?

So "defensively effective" isn't just a term, then? (It's a particularly horrible term, where did you drag that one up from?) And it's wrong. None of the players you mention are holding players, whether you put it in quotes or not. Especially Agger. He's a defender you know.

'No...'defensively effective' is a 'property' that a player exhibits in his play..(defenders like Agger tend to be good at it)...whereas 'holding player' is a 'term' sky use to make it simple for the simple.

And I wish all you old farts would sod off with your "jumpers for goalposts and oranges at half time" rubbish.
It's easy this "generalising without making any coherent attempt to demonstrate my point" business, isn't it?

Coherent is looking at the facts.....wins and losses...without prejudicing your conclusions by previously deciding that your heroes are too great for them to be less than perfect.
[/quote]

[TSC]

Wow - you must be a fine legal mind.

So, just to get this straight, your straw man argument that we ignore everything else and buy a mix of far eastern players who might not play well together and get us relegated blows my argument out of the water? Nice one.

Im not the one saying we should have a "face of the franchise" - thats a different poster above writing about Gerrard - but if we WERE to have one it would make sense to choose on ethat would appeal most to the franchise target market wouldn't it? The point about Kagawa is if you have two different players you are thinking of buying and one comes with the advantage of potentially maximising your income from foreign markets - all other things being equal - you buy that one.

I am saying Gerrard's style is better suited to an explosive, low block, counter-attacking team where we draw the opposition onto us then use his pace, power, vision and dynamism to punch through them - the way Mourinho set up his Chelsea side to play or Ferguson sets up his United side to play. They are dangerous on the counter. BUt that's not the football we are going to play. For the type of football that Rodgers wants to play we press high up the pitch, we keep our players in the opposition half and probe them for openings. This means they have got time to get back but get pulled out of position as they chase the ball around. It means we need to patiently recirculate the ball, passing laterally and backwards and not giving possession away trying to force play. That's not Gerrard's game - that's Lucas's. It's why Lucas is by far the most important player at our club. MOre important than Gerrard. Mor eimportant than Pepe, Suarez, Agger, everyone. He's already one of the most important players for Brazil and will captain the senior team soon. That's BRAZIL. THE footballing superpower.

Gerrard has been a great footballer - arguably one of the Premiership's greatest, arguably one of our club's greatest. But he's no longer the best option for captain for the way Rodgers will set up to play. That's ignoring his injury record and the decrease in our points per game when he plays.  Im sure there will be a transition over the coming season and that transition should be to Lucas.

Well for a start you don't know exactly how Rodgers will set up to play - he hasn't even signed a player yet.  Fact is he'll have more resources at his disposal than at Swansea.  A decrease in points per game? This is based on one season isn't it, the last one?  One in which Gerrard fought injury.  One also in which ironically Lucas also missed the vast majority of through injury.  And one where the season went pear shaped after the Suarez ban.  Also a question mark against Lucas starting this season - seen some reports that he may be out until towards Xmas. 

Bet ya never factored all that into your nonsense eh.

Have you been watching England?  Gerrard's one of the players of the tourno to date.  And yet slated by the likes of you.

[steveeastend]

Nail. Head.

Gerrard could play anywhere. He's probably the best RW, RB AM and second forward in our team. But the guy has so much ability it's ridiculous, and we need to use him as effectively as possible for the team's benefit.

The things is that in an ideal team there would be enough quality for keeping possession and winning duels just because the majority of the players simply being better than the other team.

A team full of Gerrards would be tempting, just as a team full of Zidanes or Maradonas. Barcelona and some of the Brasilian international teams in the past did offer this in a way so that there was rarely any need for a holding midfielder "closing down gaps", "being disciplined enough" etc.

Barcelona f.e. didn´t need Mascherano in holding midfield as the majority of the players are simply that good that the possibility for a misplaced pass or lost duel is rare. Unbelievably rare.

But for the majority of the teams on this planet this doesn´t work as only ONE not so good passing leads to a complete different thinking in a managers head. What do we then? Who is gonna stay back and look for winning back the ball? Who is strong enough to do that for the entire 90 minutes? And at the same place good enough to offer decent passing in built up without loosing the ball again immediately.

Gerrard can do the passing in built up, and he is of course very good at it. But is he the player you would expect to win back the ball and work that way for the entire 90 minutes? I don´t think so, and that´s all I am saying. (It was also very obvious in the english games so far )
And the question why he is playing there in every game since Rafa left while at the same time the entire british press slated Rafa for playing Gerrard not in his favourite position, box to box. I think it´s a valid question.. where to play Gerrard best considering his qualities and age in order to get the best results for the team.

[armchair-fan]

What, no Rooney?

[-Q-]

Actually it's a major reason we should have bought Kagawa. Like it or not one of the owners strategies for increasing the revenues of the club is to exploit the Asian market. If you care about winning trophies you should care about us being able to compete financially with our rivals - and currently we are slipping further and furtehr behind financially. That's why the stadium issue is so crucial to us.

To make it really really simple for you i'll break it down in language even you can understand.

Success = more fans. More fans = more revenue. More revenue = better players. Better players = higher chance of success.

But it's OK Q mate you just keep watching the match for  30-yard screamers into the top corner as that's about as far as your appreciation of the game goes. Slightly higher than the level of an average six year old.

Andy I will ignore the pathetic insults and simply point you to read my post again, then look at that attempt of your success formula and then see what you wrote and you will see that you agreed with me and contradicted yourself. Further, your funny and simplistic economic advice that I already addressed can never work. The team is not build to sell shirts, however the team will sell shirts if there are great players in it and great results, no matter where those players come from. Lastly, you are very naive if you think we could get Kagawa. Liverpool is not as atractive as it used to be, to get top players we would need to offer cash at the MC level that we don't have; at this point we compete for player with Newcastle and Swansea. Now go and find yourself someone else for your stupid wind-up attemps as I am done 

[farawayred]

What, no Rooney?

But Ronaldo is there...   Oh, wait... that's the real one... 

[-Q-]

Look at our results...when he plays CM...when he doesn't...

Are you really that stupid that you are not capable to understand any system and can only focus on one part at the time? If that is the case there is no point at all to talk you...wait a second, I already know that and only respond to provide some balance here, where you and your other Ids troll.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Andy I will ignore the pathetic insults and simply point you to read my post again, then look at that attempt of your success formula and then see what you wrote and you will see that you agreed with me and contradicted yourself. Further, your funny and simplistic economic advice that I already addressed can never work. The team is not build to sell shirts, however the team will sell shirts if there are great players in it and great results, no matter where those players come from. Lastly, you are very naive if you think we could get Kagawa. Liverpool is not as atractive as it used to be, to get top players we would need to offer cash at the MC level that we don't have; at this point we compete for player with Newcastle and Swansea. Now go and find yourself someone else for your stupid wind-up attemps as I am done 

I actually re-read your post and it was as just as stupid the second time round. This doesn't come as a surprise as i've read your posts on other threads too and dealing with your level of intellect is actually exhausting. The fact you think Wirral, Andy@ and myself are all the same person is further proof of your genius. See ya! 

[danwarb]

Gerrard has been a great footballer - arguably one of the Premiership's greatest, arguably one of our club's greatest. But he's no longer the best option for captain for the way Rodgers will set up to play. That's ignoring his injury record and the decrease in our points per game when he plays.  Im sure there will be a transition over the coming season and that transition should be to Lucas.

It's probably best to do that since he only started 12 in the league. Over the previous 3 season we've won more points with him in the side (an opta tweet I recall).

A further example as to why stats like that can mislead: Up to the point Lucas got injured and since his debut, we won 59% of our games without Lucas in the line-up compared to 49% with him. Played a higher percentage of away games with him.

In Rafa's last season we won 70% with Gerrard at CM, and ~27% with Mascherano and Lucas there. We were wrong not to start Gerrard at CM more often then, or Gerrard played more games there when the side was doing better overall, and at home.


Some positive comments on Steven from Rafa's recent articles on the tournament:

Anyway, Stevie will remember all about Zlatan and Juventus. He missed the Turin leg with an injury but he was very strong in our win at Anfield, driving the play. He is playing far deeper for Roy Hodgson and driving forward far less but I think that is correct. He is the England midfielder who can pass the ball and switch the play better than all the others. He can also be that shield to frustrate Zlatan, who definitely won't have forgotten him.

If someone follows Steven Gerrard man for man and ispulled out of position, for example, Rooney will have space to receive the ball between the lines on either side of the holding midfielders.
A little talk on Gerrard, here, perhaps, because it has been good to see him making such a difference even from the deeper role he has been assigned by Hodgson. It was not just the accuracy of the cross to Andy Carroll which was important for England's first goal against Sweden but his ability to give it just the right pace. The difference between quality players and the rest is their ability not only to do something with the ball but to do it very quickly. Even at the level we are now watching, a player can maybe see a pass but not play it more than 30 metres. Steven can make a 40-metre pass, with accuracy and the right pace. He can see the necessary pass and make it at the same time. That is quality.

[Nessy76]

Mark Lawrenson was a defender too....he played a number of times as a defensive midfielder for us......Agger is the most similar player we have to him.......or is Mark Lawrenson just a 'term' too?

Well obviously if Mark Lawrenson got a few games in the middle of the park, then Agger must be a holding player. Yes. That makes perfect sense.

'No...'defensively effective' is a 'property' that a player exhibits in his play..(defenders like Agger tend to be good at it)...whereas 'holding player' is a 'term' sky use to make it simple for the simple.

"Effective" is an adjective, clearly that's not a property. Rafa Benitez was the man who convinced me of the importance of holding players in the modern game. (Go on, tell me all about Albert Stubbins again...) I don't even have sky.

And I wish all you old farts would sod off with your "jumpers for goalposts and oranges at half time" rubbish.
It's easy this "generalising without making any coherent attempt to demonstrate my point" business, isn't it?

Coherent is looking at the facts.....wins and losses...without prejudicing your conclusions by previously deciding that your heroes are too great for them to be less than perfect.

Didn't say anyone was perfect. I said that Lucas aside, no-one else in the team can play the holding role.

Stop crying, it's undignified.

[Carra-ton]

Not one player who has played for liverpool in the last twelve years comes close to wiping gerrard's shoes bar alonso maybe , god not included. And yes the Gerrard haters can fuck off for they are dim wits.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

It's probably best to do that since he only started 12 in the league. Over the previous 3 season we've won more points with him in the side (an opta tweet I recall).

A further example as to why stats like that can mislead: Up to the point Lucas got injured and since his debut, we won 59% of our games without Lucas in the line-up compared to 49% with him. Played a higher percentage of away games with him.

In Rafa's last season we won 70% with Gerrard at CM, and ~27% with Mascherano and Lucas there. We were wrong not to start Gerrard at CM more often then, or Gerrard played more games there when the side was doing better overall, and at home.


Some positive comments on Steven from Rafa's recent articles on the tournament:

Good post.

Yes you are right the stats can be misleading which is why (a syou acknowledged) I said I was ignoring the PPG issue. But either way the fact is the team doesn't fall apart in performance terms without Gerrard being there. It might have done once, but not any more. You have seen for yourself, on the other hand, the difference the Lucas's injury has made to the team. Of course Gerrard is a high quality footballer - in the bit of my post you quoted you can see where I said he was arguably one of the greatest ever. But, even if he was as good as he used to be right now (and he isn't) that doesn't mean he would be suited to being the best captain if we are completely changing the way we are playing.

We are starting with a new manager, new owners and with a new footballing philosophy. In my view the other players should look to the Captain as teh player who mostembodies that new philosophy. For all his strengths, the type of football we will now be playing is not Gerrard's natural game. Does it mean that he won't score more goals next season than he has in this one? No. Does it mean that the team won't be more successful than it has been? No. But is he going to be the most crucial player for the way we are going to play? patently not.

[carling]

Good post.

Yes you are right the stats can be misleading which is why (a syou acknowledged) I said I was ignoring the PPG issue. But either way the fact is the team doesn't fall apart in performance terms without Gerrard being there. It might have done once, but not any more. You have seen for yourself, on the other hand, the difference the Lucas's injury has made to the team. Of course Gerrard is a high quality footballer - in the bit of my post you quoted you can see where I said he was arguably one of the greatest ever. But, even if he was as good as he used to be right now (and he isn't) that doesn't mean he would be suited to being the best captain if we are completely changing the way we are playing.

We are starting with a new manager, new owners and with a new footballing philosophy. In my view the other players should look to the Captain as teh player who mostembodies that new philosophy. For all his strengths, the type of football we will now be playing is not Gerrard's natural game. Does it mean that he won't score more goals next season than he has in this one? No. Does it mean that the team won't be more successful than it has been? No. But is he going to be the most crucial player for the way we are going to play? patently not.

You should probably let it go.  There is zero chance of Gerrard not being captain next season.  And the Lucas stats from half of a completely fucked up season aren't going to change that.

You can bang on about 'philosophy' all you want but Steven Gerrard will be the captain under Brendan Rodgers.  Why?  Because he's not fucking stupid.

[danwarb]

I think he's bulked up quite a bit. He looks more muscular now, rather than lean, which should help with injuries and energy levels at his age.

Just saw this from Daniele De Rossi: "Steven Gerrard has always been my idol. For 10 years he was one of the best in the world. You see Gerrard defending and attacking. I would like to be able to play more like that"

Aww.

[Vidocq]

I think he's bulked up quite a bit. He looks more muscular now, rather than lean, which should help with injuries and energy levels at his age.

Just saw this from Daniele De Rossi: "Steven Gerrard has always been my idol. For 10 years he was one of the best in the world. You see Gerrard defending and attacking. I would like to be able to play more like that"

Aww.

in other words, TAKE ME OUT OF HER ( centre back)