Topic: Captain Hero for Year Zero?

[gregor]

I still want to know what 'Year Zero' is.

1892.

[didi shamone]

Strange. And yet you are on an English website which talks about an English game played in England.

As you Americans would say "Go figure"

I thought this was a scouse website .

[andspecks]

From Kenny- “But, behind the scenes, you see how he understands the importance of the position that he holds as Liverpool captain.
“Some of the work he does encouraging his teammates and with representing the club is unbelievable."

Gerrard is so underrated as captain on here.

[Carolina Red]

Strange. And yet you are on an English website which talks about an English game played in England.

As you Americans would say "Go figure"

I know where I am.

I said I didn't understand it. Another poster explained the history as to why the largely symbolic role of "captain" is held in such high regard in the English game.

You chose to make a smartass comment. Thanks.

[Carolina Red]

I don't blame you, but here's why: before football even started being played, England was (and still is) a cricket playing nation. In cricket, the captain is very important. They often have a say in who actually gets picked, and have a lot of responsibility on the field, setting up the fielding positions and deciding who bowls each over.

For this reason, the role of the captaincy is ingrained in the mind of a lot of people as being important, and always has been. From what I understand, on the continent and elswhere in the world, it's not seen as anywhere near as important and is seen as what it is - a largely symbolic role. They walk out first, call the toss and lift a trophy if the team wins one. That's about it.

Thanks for explaining the history behind it, much appreciated.

[new-red]

Steven Gerrard should be Captain of Liverpool and it shouldn't even be in dispute or up for discussion.

Sorry, but what a load of bollocks.

I don't think it is but the role of vice captain definitely is. Carra is no longer a First XI player and therefore can't deputize for Gerrard in his absence. Lucas deserves that responsibility and should be named Vice-Captain. He has proven to be an extremely influential player on the pitch, while being a model professional off of it. Also he is an outfield player, the only other player I would consider is Agger. They are equal candidates in my book.

[new-red]

Thanks for explaining the history behind it, much appreciated.

I second that.

[myrlas]

Cant think of a club in world football that is more concerned about who wears the captains armband than us.

Does it really matter?

Do as Real Madrid. The player with most games for the club has it, and can "lead" his troops out on the pitch, and do the handshakes.

After that there's a game to win, and you go to war with 10 fellow proffesionals. That armband shouldn't matter at all.

But it does.

In fact it's frightening to se a captain GETTING the armband when coming off the substitutes bench. Is there another club in the world who do that gesture? Can't think of any..

[Nessy76]

I know where I am.

I said I didn't understand it. Another poster explained the history as to why the largely symbolic role of "captain" is held in such high regard in the English game.

You chose to make a smartass comment. Thanks.

Smartarse comment... 

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Thanks for explaining the history behind it, much appreciated.

Don't agree with that explanation at all.

Football is by far the dominant sport in England and, partly due to the class system, there is relatively little crossover between the sports - certainly not enough to account for a 'cricketing mentality' to seep into football.

Personally I think the real answer is much deeper than that. England, and englishness, is in love with the culture of amateurism. I don't mean that in the pejorative sense but in the sense that things are done for the love of them or for their own sake. Doing something 'professionally' is seen as somehow a bit underhanded. If you look at football analysis in this country its absolutely dire. There is very little mention of tactics or systems but more of motivation and nerve in pressure situations. We prefer the inventor building a jet engine in his shed rather than a university technical department. Until recently, being promoted into the right type of job depended more on being the 'right sort of chap' rather than demonstrable skills or qualifications - which are held in lower regard than other European countries.

What this means is that winning becomes less important in terms of everyone sticking to their part in a tactical gameplan but on showing more heart, fight and detrmination than the other team. It's why the leading candidate for the england managers post was harry redknapp - a man who (sadly) cant read, write or had any idea of footballing tactics other than
'just facking ran abaht a bit' as he famously instructed Pavlyuchenko. It's we we celebrate glorious defeat. It's why we have always backed personalities rather than parties or the state. It's humanistic. Its why we celebrate the cult of 'effortless superiority'. It's a hangover from the class sytem.

On the positive side it means that (theoretically) we never give up whereas a "professional" attitude, at Istanbul, say - would have been to shore up the defence at 3-0 down to prevent a humiliation. But relying on those qualities, which are more intangible, means you need to rely on a leader on the pitch to encourage them. That's why England fetishises Captains, it's nothing to do with cricket.

[the good half]

Steven Gerrard is the captain of Liverpool FC.

[astowell1]

Steven Gerrard is the captain of Liverpool FC.

Simple as. And you have to be a complete c*nt to not get behind our captain. The man is a red through and through, his loyalty is rare in the modern game.

[vivabobbygraham]

Stop posting shite

[Wirral1]

Simple as. And you have to be a complete c*nt to not get behind our captain. The man is a red through and through, his loyalty is rare in the modern game.

Captain Fantastic!!!...coming in when we were struggling for 4th place and leading us down to 8th....leading us to 11 points in his 12 games. How could anybody argue with that?...captain material all the way. Superman. God. Best ever. Everything good comes from him. Everything bad is someone else's fault.

Praise him for each of the 0.92 points we got per game when he started the match. Miles better than all those 'lesser' players who only managed 1.58 points per game when he didn't start. Or, after that crap Lucas' injury, let's laud our great captain for leading us to 0.9 points per game when the rest of the shite only managed 1.33 points per game when he didn't start. Fantastic!...He'll be captain til he retires...the facts demand it!

Best player there's ever been. A knighthood soon surely?, maybe the Papacy?, all the cups he won singlehandedly, 11 v 1, no need for any other players on the pitch. He should be next Archbishop of Canterbury, England manager, King, President!....reason demands it.

[OneTouchFooty]

Captain Fantastic!!!...coming in when we were struggling for 4th place and leading us down to 8th....leading us to 11 points in his 12 games. How could anybody argue with that?...captain material all the way. Superman. God. Best ever. Everything good comes from him. Everything bad is someone else's fault.

Praise him for each of the 0.92 points we got per game when he started the match. Miles better than all those 'lesser' players who only managed 1.58 points per game when he didn't start. He'll be captain til he retires...the facts demand it!

Best player there's ever been. A knighthood soon surely?, maybe the Papacy?, all the cups he won singlehandedly, 11 v 1, no need for any other players on the pitch. He should be next Archbishop of Canterbury, England manager, King, President!....reason demands it.

D'oh.

[jsl2000]

Gerrard is so underrated as captain on here.

You can understand why though.  He's not a very vocal captain on the pitch, doesn't get involved in argy bargy, very rarely (except when necessary) motivates the team.  But he does lead by example by taking a game by the scruff of the kneck when needed and i would say this is his main strength as a captain and probably the best attribute to have.

[vivabobbygraham]

Captain Fantastic!!!...coming in when we were struggling for 4th place and leading us down to 8th....leading us to 11 points in his 12 games. How could anybody argue with that?...captain material all the way. Superman. God. Best ever. Everything good comes from him. Everything bad is someone else's fault.

Praise him for each of the 0.92 points we got per game when he started the match. Miles better than all those 'lesser' players who only managed 1.58 points per game when he didn't start. Or, after that crap Lucas' injury, let's laud our great captain for leading us to 0.9 points per game when the rest of the shite only managed 1.33 points per game when he didn't start. Fantastic!...He'll be captain til he retires...the facts demand it!

Best player there's ever been. A knighthood soon surely?, maybe the Papacy?, all the cups he won singlehandedly, 11 v 1, no need for any other players on the pitch. He should be next Archbishop of Canterbury, England manager, King, President!....reason demands it.

Papacy and Archbishop of Canterbury? Now there's a first. Go 'ed Stevie, lad.

[NZ Red]

The captain for me should be the player who most inspires others.  For me that is still Gerrard, as when he is on the pitch he is the one who still sets the standards and the one which all the players look up to.

Improve the players around Gerrard and he will thrive and not try to do everything himself, like 2008/9 when he was surrounded by quality.

This. Gerrard still holds an aura of authority and inspires those around him. I think he's more intelligent than people give him credit for at times, and can adapt his game to suit a new system if needed. Cut him some slack if at times he lacks positional discipline - mostly it's been due to a decade of regularly dragging us through games single-handedly

[andspecks]

You can understand why though.  He's not a very vocal captain on the pitch, doesn't get involved in argy bargy, very rarely (except when necessary) motivates the team.  But he does lead by example by taking a game by the scruff of the kneck when needed and i would say this is his main strength as a captain and probably the best attribute to have.

It's more of people not paying attention/caring when articles come out about all the work he puts in around the club. Helping players settle, supporting them off the pitch. That sort of thing. Gets to me that people just turn a blind eye to it.

[Danny_]

Last season showed we can cope without steven gerrard, but we can't cope without lucas.

To be honest, no it didn't.  It showed that we can't cope without a good striker who puts the chances we create away. 

[john_mac]

Steven remains an excellent leader of the football club, plys a role at all levels of the club. He will be difficult to replace when the time comes, I don't think that time has come yet.

Our new, relatively inexperienced manager may have a different veiwpoint and may want to move forward differently but I suspect he will be extremely grateful to have Steven leading the playing ranks. Either way, the important think is to support the new manager, his players on the park and his choice of captain.

Fuck all to do with cricket that.

[NZ Red]

Steven remains an excellent leader of the football club, plys a role at all levels of the club. He will be difficult to replace when the time comes, I don't think that time has come yet.

Completely agree with that. It's difficult to comprehend at times the criticism he receives by some on here. Although he undeniably has his faults, he's arguably the best player in the history of the club and I have no doubt he's one of those players who people will only truly appreciate once he's hung up his boots.

It will be interesting to see the role he plays next season. I'm very confident he'll keep the captain's armband, and think Rodgers would be foolish to do otherwise. His role in the squad could be an interesting one, and it may be a good idea to rotate him more often rather than try to play him in every match week in week out. Think he might be best utilised playing 20 games in top condition than over 30 games tired. Would also give Henderson and Shelvey some useful playing time in less important matches

[jDJ]

I think Rodger Brendans is intelligent enough to realise a) who your captain is makes very little difference to how well the team plays and b) taking it from Gerrard would therefore create much more harm than good.

Team spirit is vital, taking it from Gerrard is much more likely to negatively affect that than it would be positively affected by giving the armband to someone else.

In my view, the captaincy should have been taken from Gerrard after the second Chelsea debacle but that times passed now and I'm sure he'll keep the armband until he retires.

[andspecks]

I think Rodger Brendans is intelligent enough to realise a) who your captain is makes very little difference to how well the team plays and b) taking it from Gerrard would therefore create much more harm than good.

Team spirit is vital, taking it from Gerrard is much more likely to negatively affect that than it would be positively affected by giving the armband to someone else.

In my view, the captaincy should have been taken from Gerrard after the second Chelsea debacle but that times passed now and I'm sure he'll keep the armband until he retires.

He offered it, but Rafa told him to keep it. Same thing happened after the whole court case drama.

[JohnHobbes]

To be honest, no it didn't.  It showed that we can't cope without a good striker who puts the chances we create away. 

You can spin this one so many ways it gets meaningless. You could say...

We can't cope in defence when we lose Agger and the stats shows that...
We can't cope in midfield when we lose Lucas and the stats shows that...
We can't cope in attacking when we lose Suarez and the stats shows that...
We can't cope in creativity when we lose Stevie and the stats shows that...

Ad infiniteum

[jaffod]

We win less points when he plays, tactically inept, leaves the defence exposed, headless chicken, doesn't pass to certain team-mates and not worthy of the captaincy. This club is supported by some utter, utter c*nts.

[Wirral1]

We win less points when he plays, ......CORRECT OVER THE LAST 2 YEARS, OR, AS RAFA WOULD HAVE SAID, "FACT"
tactically inept.....AS CENTRAL MIDFIELDER...PROBABLY
leaves the defence exposed....WHEN HE PLAYS CM. DEFINITELY
headless chicken.....NOT GOING FORWARD
doesn't pass to certain team-mates.....DON'T KNOW...
not worthy of the captaincy.....IF HE ONLY PLAYS HALF THE GAMES OR LESS, IT SHOULD PROBABLY BE SOMEONE ELSE.

This club is supported by some utter, utter c*nts........c*nts BEING THOSE WHO PUT LIVERPOOL FC BEFORE STEVEN GERRARD ?

[Lent§]

We win less points when he plays, tactically inept, leaves the defence exposed, headless chicken, doesn't pass to certain team-mates and not worthy of the captaincy. This club is supported by some utter, utter c*nts.

Thread summed up in one post.

[Wirral1]

Thread summed up in one post.

The utter, utter c*nts versus the soft c*nts thread.

[Lent§]

I think it's clear which one you fall into you fucking biff

[farawayred]

The utter, utter c*nts versus the soft c*nts thread.

It smells like fish in here...

[Wirral1]

I think it's clear which one you fall into you fucking biff

Would you prefer a team of utter c*nts who win....or a team of soft c*nts who don't ?

[stevieG786]

So it's Gerrard and only Gerrards fault we lost them games where he played?

Bullshit, The whole team turned into shit in the 2nd half of last season.

[Wirral1]

So it's Gerrard and only Gerrards fault we lost them games where he played?

Bullshit, The whole team turned into shit in the 2nd half of last season.

No it didn't. The forwards were fairly constant all season, or actually improved towards the end, goals scored or not.
The defenders were pretty solid all season.
It was the midfield which turned to shit.

It wasn't all Gerrards fault. However, the second part of the season showed Gerrard simply is not a central midfielder (Which is probably why Benitez put him out right and then up top). Of all our central midfielders, Lucas, Adam, Spearing (I won't include Henderson as he hardly played there)....Gerrard was the weakest.

Losing Lucas in midfield was a blow which cost us points. (From 1.58 pts per game down to 1.33 points per game after his injury).

Playing Gerrard in central midfield was another blow which cost us more.( Down to 0.92 points per game when he played)

Unfortunately, all everyone sees are big names and big reputations and big histories. Spearing gets dogs abuse, as does Adam, as Lucas used to do. Gerrard plays shit and people still call him man of the match. He was man of the match plenty of times in the past when he was younger, more mobile and played out wide of up front....but that was the past and he hasn't done much of note (bar the very occasional cameo of the past) for the past two years.

For me, it's just about what's better for LFC on the pitch.
Emlyn hughes was told when his time was up. So were Smith, Callaghan, Thompson, Rush et al.
Their reputations weren't allowed to count for anything. Anyone not doing the business on the pitch was quickly put straight or got rid of. 
Or was that just Paisley, Fagan & co being utter c*nts?

[Lent§]

Clueless

[Wirral1]

Clueless

Try lots of reading. (Not the Sun. Also, The Beano and GQ and phone txts don't count) and don't watch too much Sky TV. In a couple of years who knows?.

Have you thought of the Open University ?. Big, big collars but they can teach you something. I notice you're in London...don't worry, that's not an irrecoverable position. Close though.......

[andspecks]

Try lots of reading. (Not the Sun. Also, The Beano and GQ and phone txts don't count) and don't watch too much Sky TV. In a couple of years who knows?.

Have you thought of the Open University ?. Big collars but they can teach you something. I notice you're in London...don't worry, that's not an irrecoverable position. Close though.......

How many times are you going to edit that post? You're hardly helping your case with that response.

[Wirral1]

How many times are you going to edit that post? You're hardly helping your case with that response.

I can't help being a perfectionist

er...

I can't help that I'm a perfectionist.....

or...


Perhaps it doesn't help that I be a perfectionist....or......

[Wirral1]

How many times are you going to edit that post? You're hardly helping your case with that response.

My case doesn't need help. People who say Gerrard is great/should be captain/is the best ever etc etc....need to stop simpy shouting 'Stevie is Great' or whatever...and produce real evidence to support their case with regard to Gerrards performance over the last two years.
Those figures of points gained when he plays/when he doesn't.....those are real evidence. Just saying 'Stevie is great' isn't.

[Lent§]

How many times are you going to edit that post? You're hardly helping your case with that response.

Bless him eh, I make it 4 edits and he still looks thick as fuck