Topic: Captain Hero for Year Zero?

[Vidocq]

Wow.

A captain can direct the style the team plays in without everybody on the team playing in his position. For example Casillas, as captain, can direct the team to press the opposition harder if Madrid were drawing with the opposition. The captain acts as a conduit between the manager and the players on the pitch - if they had no influence on how the team plays, the position wouldn't exist in the game as there would patently be no point.  It doesn't mean having a goalkeeper as captain mean the whole team play as goalkeepers, just as having Gerrard as captain doesn't mean the whole team plays as central midfielders.

Can't believe I actually had to explain that.

do you realise that players cant hear what goalkeeper is saying...especially not players in the middle of the park,or on opponents half

i understand the point of this thread,and i think its wrong point....Rodgers worked with Mourinho,and we all know that Mourinho gets a hard-on everytime someone mention Gerrard...
he's capable playing in Rodgers system...give him the Iniesta role,and he'll be fine

[blah]

I think it would be crazy to take the armband away from Gerrard right now. That being said I think Lucas is captain material and I would love to see him or Agger get the role of VC.

Personally I'd like Agger to get the armband next with Lucas as VC but I think Steven still has plenty to give.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Can't believe the number of people saying don't fix what isn't broken.

It' s patently broken.

This season we've been a team that doesn't support its youngsters, has failed to control games we should have, often failed to even look motivated for other games, been bulied and out-passed by teams well below us and often played in a stupid way against a number of opponents. And above all, we finished nine points above Wigan who were involved in a relegation fight. Anyone who disputes those things should take five minutes to read the "stupid football" thread.

And, on occassion, our Captain has responded to our inadequacies by strolling around the pitch.

It's broken. It needs fixing.

[Bangin Them In]

Can't believe the number of people saying don't fix what isn't broken.

It' s patently broken.

This season we've been a team that doesn't support its youngsters, has failed to control games we should have, often failed to even look motivated for other games, been bulied and out-passed by teams well below us and often played in a stupid way against a number of opponents. And above all, we finished nine points above Wigan who were involved in a relegation fight. Anyone who disputes those things should take five minutes to read the "stupid football" thread.

And, on occassion, our Captain has responded to our inadequacies by strolling around the pitch.

It's broken. It needs fixing.

No, we DID control games, that was the frustration, we didn't convert chances or create from possession.

You are reading far too much into captaincy and just using this as a stick to beat Gerrard, he has faults, but is far from the one that deserves agendas being pursued against him, and is far from the worst player at our club.

Man City won the league this year, no-one cares who the fuck their captain is/was because it is meaningless. They are professional footballers that are quite capable without some 1950s Scotty Parker shouting like a loon. sounding like your Dad at the park.

[bleedsred1978]

I think Rogers is looking for eleven captains. His whole mantra is team, team ,team.

Stevie may not be as fantastic as he once was but he would not deserve this slap in the face from a new manager, and that's exactly what it would be.

I think Gerard deserves more from the club and dare i say it from our fans.

[Andy @ Allerton]

I think Rogers is looking for eleven captains. His whole mantra is team, team ,team.

Stevie may not be as fantastic as he once was but he would not deserve this slap in the face from a new manager, and that's exactly what it would be.

I think Gerard deserves more from the club and dare i say it from our fans.

If you're right then I wonder what Rodgers will make of Gerrard refusing to pass to certain players or demanding the ball off certain players.

That certainly doesn't fit into "Team team team"

[bleedsred1978]

If you're right then I wonder what Rodgers will make of Gerrard refusing to pass to certain players or demanding the ball off certain players.

That certainly doesn't fit into "Team team team"

He wont put up with it Andy, no doubt, nor should he. As far as demanding the ball goes then we could do with a bit more of that across the team. When players get the ball for us at the minute all they can see is the backs of fellas. Very few showing for the ball, thats the whole team that has that issue, not just Gerrard.

Still don't think he deserves to be stripped of the captaincy at this moment in time though. If he wont adapt then yes by all means but not now for me.

[andspecks]

If you're right then I wonder what Rodgers will make of Gerrard refusing to pass to certain players or demanding the ball off certain players.

That certainly doesn't fit into "Team team team"

Better take Suarez out of the team too then.

[farawayred]

I think Rogers is looking for eleven captains. His whole mantra is team, team ,team.

Stevie may not be as fantastic as he once was but he would not deserve this slap in the face from a new manager, and that's exactly what it would be.

I think Gerard deserves more from the club and dare i say it from our fans.

I think Gerrard has to be presented with a choice - quit England after the Euros and focus on the team you captain every week, or keep your international career going but pass the armband to someone else. When a player reaches a certain age, he cannot do both. Gerrard hasn't come to that realization yet, which speaks about his level of wisdom, really.

[Billy The Kid.]

If you're right then I wonder what Rodgers will make of Gerrard refusing to pass to certain players or demanding the ball off certain players.

That certainly doesn't fit into "Team team team"

He probably wont make anything of it. Because the only one who seems to believe that kind of tripe is you

[scouse29]

I would like a change or personel. Maybe Lucas, would like to see agger but his fitness would be a concern. Don't think carra should be vice captain for what it's worth.

[Not A Scouser]

Only the British care about the captain.  I'd be frightened of having a player who needs a charismatic captain to play their best when there are thousands of people who love the club screaming from the stands.  No captain ever motivated me.  Stevie being the captain matters to some people and probably sells some shirts.  He's just about the most senior player in the squad and taking it off him would be a talking point.  He'll be riding off into the sunset in a couple of years with the love of everyone in the club and someone else will be captain and have to choose heads or tails and to attack against the Kop if he guesses right.

[Shirley.]

 I'd take it away from Gerrard. Not because I think he's an unfit captain, far from it, but because his playing time in the side seems to be lessening with every passing year. His fitness is hindering his form (thanks, England) and I just think the armband should go to someone who can be there continuously over the next few seasons with this season being the first of an entirely new era. Although I'd love to see Suarez rewarded for his passion for the club over the past eighteen months, he's simply too erratic to be the voice of the side. Agger's fitness is also a concern when considering him but Reina and Skrtel would be excellent choices for me.

[surfer]

Neither the captaincy nor vice captaincy will change imo, unless Carra retires. Maybe the season after we will see some movement there. As already mentioned, these things are just ceremonial, but on a personal level for the player, it can bring out the authority in someone like Lucas who is ready to take the next step and direct the team.

[Cruiser]

Captaincy should remain the same.

Vice captaincy to Raheem Sterling 

[wheresnemeth]

I think that too much is made of the captaincy. If the manager is willing to substitute the captain during a match for the good of the team then it would send a strong message to everyone that the team is more important than the individual.

[Neil D]

No need to take it off Gerrard and we won't, he will be captain until he retires.

Reina will be next in line, followed by Agger and Skrtel.

[Nessy76]

Seriously, just image the press field day if Rodgers took the armband off Gerrard.
Just imagine how thrilled Alex Ferguson would be, going on about it in a completely unrelated press conference.
Just imagine how England's John Terry would be texting SG, winding him up over it.
Never happen.

[AriGold]

Daft thread. It'll be Gerrard until he retires and rightly so.

[gerrardlfc]

You really think who's captain is what is wrong with the club?

[Guz-kop]

He may not be first name on the teamsheet but Rodgers will value Gerrard and what he brings to the club both on and off the pitch. He won't be bullied by the player, he won't be told where he will play, he won't let him rule the dressing room or any other shit like that. Just like every single bloody manager that has ever managed Steven Gerrard.

[yorkykopite]

Gerrard for me is the past. His injury and form for the last three years (A few fantastic efforts aside) has simply not been good enough for Liverpool FC. If his injuries continue and his form continues then it's time for us to move on as a club. Excellent player for us in his day. But his day has gone.

Given the fact that you don't expect Liverpool to be in the top half of the table under Brendan Rodgers do you think Gerrard might be useful in any relegation battle we could find ourselves in? 

[RedGreen]

Neither of them captain.

Yeah, Mr. Ferguson prefers the lying French shit-house, Evra, as the leader of the Scum. How fitting! 

[Not A Scouser]

do you realise that players cant hear what goalkeeper is saying...especially not players in the middle of the park,or on opponents half

I think he may have forgotten the manager, who has something of a central position with regard to the pitch and the ability to communicate to his players.

[Bouncer]

The captain for me should be the player who most inspires others.  For me that is still Gerrard, as when he is on the pitch he is the one who still sets the standards and the one which all the players look up to.

Improve the players around Gerrard and he will thrive and not try to do everything himself, like 2008/9 when he was surrounded by quality.

100% yes ... anything else is disrespectful ... Lucas is decent enought, but Gerrard is a leviathan amongst footballers ... I like how he conducts himself as a captain and leader off the pitch ... best player the premiership has seen ... I know how lucky we are to have him and value every appearance he makes

[jaffod]

Bullshit thread.

And what's this 'year zero' bollocks? Just because we've got a shite new kit and a new manager?

I'll tell you something. If any of our players need motivation or guidance from the captain once they set foot on that pitch then I'd rather they were fucked off asap.

So much shite spouted on these boards it's unbelievable.

[geoffstrong 1937-2013 RIP]

if he stays fit no problem with him keeping the armband if he is injured a lot maybe make him club captain, and give the armband to Pepe!

[Legendary_Nines]

I don't understand why everyone just bumps Pepe down the list because he's a goalkeeper? There's been a lot of goalkeepers who captain their club teams...I think he'd do a perfectly good job, he's vocal and extremely passionate.

[Cid]

Er.. Neither is Gerrard.

I said if fit.  If FIT, Gerrard starts pretty much all our games.  And he doesn't do it on reputation, he starts because he deserves to.  He's not been the same these last 2-3 years, I give you that, but an out of sorts Steven Gerrard is still far and away more useful than Adam, Downing, Henderson, Spearing, Kuyt, Maxi, Carroll, Cole or Alberto shithouse Aquilani.

He gets injured a lot, and that is why I agree we should have a vice-captain who is a first team player.  My choice would be Agger, some would say Pepe, and some Lucas.  I'd be fine with any of them because its just a little silly having our vice captain be 3rd/4th choice centre back.

What is it with you and Steven Gerrard?  Perhaps you asked him for an autograph and instead he drew a cock on your prized program?  Maybe he reached his hand to you for a high five but pulled it back at the last moment and made you feel foolish?  Did he eat your last rolo?  Were you in an elevator together and he let one go?  I can't fathom how anyone can hold such over the top hatred for a player who has given this club so much.

[shelovesyou]

if he stays fit no problem with him keeping the armband if he is injured a lot maybe make him club captain, and give the armband to Pepe!

Agreed.
If Steve isnt going to feature regularly then give it Pepe.

[NOTBORNIN1982]

Why is nobody mentioning Downing? Strong, courageous, a natural leader.

[Gojedo]

I'm hoping that Gerrard remains relatively fit for this season. I'm also excited to see how much of the last couple of seasons he'll put behind him and step up to exorcise them if he can remain healthy. I'm looking forward to a Steven Gerrard functioning the way we know he can, within the Rodgers footballing philosophy. Whilst his best days may be slightly in the rear view mirror, I still believe there is scope for him to drive forward and cement his legend status amongst the greatest of Liverpool players. He's not finished yet.

[Andy @ Allerton]

He probably wont make anything of it. Because the only one who seems to believe that kind of tripe is you

Nah. Most of the people I go to the game with have noticed it over the years.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Given the fact that you don't expect Liverpool to be in the top half of the table under Brendan Rodgers do you think Gerrard might be useful in any relegation battle we could find ourselves in? 

I've actually said that I expect us to be about 8th or 9th. Unless a load of teams have been dumped out of the league - that sounds like top half of the table to me?

He's currently playing around half our games. Given he's away on England duty and given that it seems he's determined to play ever game and given that he appeared to be injured when he left the pitch on the last England fixture, I think it's extremely unlikely that he'll get anywhere near 100% appearances for us this season. I've always thought that a team working together, building together and gelling together need to play consistently and pretty much every game.

Someone that's not going to be there half the time isn't going to be as important as someone that is available all the time. I would hope that Rodgers recognises this fact and uses Gerrard as an impact sub late on in games - eeking out his availability and injury problems throughout the course of the season.

If that's the way he's played then he could well affect games in a positive manner. I don't think that we'll be anywhere near relegation. But equally I don't think we're going to be anywhere near winning the league or even coming fourth.

[Fellini]

Not sure about the idea of Agger being VC. He's more likely to be injured than Gerrard. Pointless keeping Carra if he's not going to play so I'd go along with the calls for Lucas or maybe even Skrtel to get the job.

[Kovai Red]

Steven Gerrard should be the captain. Lucas is the future captain. May be after 2 seasons.

[Andy @ Allerton]

I said if fit.  If FIT, Gerrard starts pretty much all our games.  And he doesn't do it on reputation, he starts because he deserves to.  He's not been the same these last 2-3 years, I give you that, but an out of sorts Steven Gerrard is still far and away more useful than Adam, Downing, Henderson, Spearing, Kuyt, Maxi, Carroll, Cole or Alberto shithouse Aquilani.

He gets injured a lot, and that is why I agree we should have a vice-captain who is a first team player.  My choice would be Agger, some would say Pepe, and some Lucas.  I'd be fine with any of them because its just a little silly having our vice captain be 3rd/4th choice centre back.

What is it with you and Steven Gerrard?  Perhaps you asked him for an autograph and instead he drew a cock on your prized program?  Maybe he reached his hand to you for a high five but pulled it back at the last moment and made you feel foolish?  Did he eat your last rolo?  Were you in an elevator together and he let one go?  I can't fathom how anyone can hold such over the top hatred for a player who has given this club so much.

I want what's best for the team and the club. Personally I don't think that Gerrard can do his "Captain Fantastic" (Older fans might remember Bryan Robson for Manchester United) nor do I think that he fits seamlessly into the team. He wants to do it all himself and he trusts some players more than others. He also appears to refuse to pass to certain players (A good example was Sterling). Whatever we want to do as a football club will have to be done as a team. Together. All the players. All the time. Every game.

If Gerrard can accept that he's just another (ageing) player in a football team that requires him to be fully committed to that setup and not himself and if he's willing to apply himself exactly as the manager, the club and his fellow players demand for every minute that he's on the pitch then we'll all be delighted. We'll all be happy because the team will benefit.

If someone pulls that jersey on and someone runs out on the pitch for Liverpool Football Club then I expect them to give their all - 100% for the time they are on the pitch. I expect them to respect all their teammates and work with all their teamamtes and respect their manager and the job that they have been asked to do. I expect them to put the club and the team above themselves because the cold hard truth is that you win nothing with individuals. Teamwork is something that was what LFC did when we won the league regularly. Everyone in every position was a part of the machine. They were a cog and those cogs moving together made a much greater machine than the sum of the parts might have suggested. In this modern day when other top teams are working together and seamlessly it is even more important that every part knows their place.

I don't care what any of them have done in the past or even last season. That's gone. They should all run out for the time they play next season working together. Respecting each other. Respecting the team ethic and respecting the manager. I think it's clear from what the manager says that they'll all have to work a lot harder and all have to work a lot better together. We'll see how strong he is. But if one member of that team is doing his own thing, leaving gaps, strolling around, blaming others for his own mistakes and demanding the ball in stupid positions when others are better placed then those players should be dropped until they learn their place in the team and learn what is expected of them.

[stevedo]

You really think who's captain is what is wrong with the club?

[Cid]

The one bit I agree with Andy, is that he trusts some players more than others...he's not alone there though..Carra was notorious for ignoring people and Suarez usually gambles on his own ability than taking the simple option...I think it's a symptom of the shite in the side rather than a character flaw.  Gerrard had no issues trusting Alonso, Masch, Torres etc and he also treats Lucas as an equal now he has grown into the side and become a quality player.

[gregor]

Can't believe the number of people saying don't fix what isn't broken.

It' s patently broken.

This season we've been a team that doesn't support its youngsters, has failed to control games we should have, often failed to even look motivated for other games, been bulied and out-passed by teams well below us and often played in a stupid way against a number of opponents. And above all, we finished nine points above Wigan who were involved in a relegation fight. Anyone who disputes those things should take five minutes to read the "stupid football" thread.

And, on occassion, our Captain has responded to our inadequacies by strolling around the pitch.

It's broken. It needs fixing.

What has any of that got to do with who is captain? If you think Gerrard should be dropped or is underperforming, fine. But contrary to your earlier post the captain doesn't dictate how we play or set up on the pitch, the manager does. This isn't cricket, it's football.

The captain is totally irrelevant. There are natural leaders in any team, it doesn't matter which one of them wears the armband. Taking the captaincy from Gerrard would be a lot more trouble than it is worth, and it would be pointless.