Topic: Captain Hero for Year Zero?

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Like them or loathe them, FSG have established a pattern concerning the way they go about doing business.

Just as we ditched Adidas to provide a modern version of the classic Liverpool kit, so we have ditched Kenny to provide a modern version of the Liverpool manager. In both instances FSG have been bold, innovative and utterly ruthless. In both instances, the decision has been made to back the attributes of the applicants rather than the CV of the incumbents. Only time will tell if the approach will be successful however one thing is for sure: if we are serious about winning major honours ever again we need an approach similar to this given how far ahead our rivals are in footballing, let alone financial terms.

The time has now come to decide upon whether we need a modern Liverpool captain.

Firstly, a word about Steven Gerrard, the phenomenon. Arguably the Premiership's greatest ever player. Unarguably one of the best players ever in Liverpool's history. A living legend, a leader by example, a man who has dragged us single handedly to victory on many occasions and who is still, on his day, unplayable.

However, the coming season has been described by many as 'Year Zero' in our rebirth and I believe, with our fresh start, we need a different type of captain to lead our ascent.

Our new philosophy will suit a man who understands the importance of defending solidly through the middle. Of pressing and blocking high with repeated ball circulation in the middle zones playing patient pass-and-move possession football.

In other words our play will be more like that of a boa constrictor than a cobra, relentlessly and patiently controlling and squeezing the life out of the opposition. Playing in this way means that no gaps can be left through which the opponent can wriggle free and hit back.
 
We therefore need a captain who can direct the crucial movement and shape of the whole team, ideally acting as the fulcrum through which all play is channelled, knowing when to relax and when to inexorably ratchet up the pressure. This will take some considerable time to perfect so he needs to be young enough and play often enough so that the whole team can learn how to move match after match, season after season. He needs to show exemplary character both on and off the pitch. He should lead by example and exude the kind of football that the manager wants the whole team to play. Ideally, as captain of our great side he should have the quality to one day lift the trophy as captain of a world cup winning side.

Steven Gerrard is not that man. Lucas Leiva is.

[SMD]

I think the armband is an overrated concept and Lucas showed last season he has the composure and maturity to lead through the middle regardless of a piece of fabric.
A stronger midfield would allow Gerrard to worry less about the team's performance and the lessened pressure from his belief that he must drive the team forward could probably see him adapt his game to match his fitness management.

[redmark]

I think Lucas will get the vice-captaincy this season.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Agger and Lucas are leaders on the pitch, irrespective of who wears the armband.

It'd be a symbolic move more than anything, and one I don't think needs to be made at this moment.

[DyingAtheist]

I think Lucas should be made Vice Captain, and then bumped up to main in a couple of seasons. I'd prefer, speaking purely objectively, for him to be made Captain this season, but I think while Gerrard still has a fairly large role to play in the team it'd just prove to be a bad idea. Better waiting a couple of years.
As I said though, he should be rewarded with the VC role.

[Z e u s]

The captain for me should be the player who most inspires others.  For me that is still Gerrard, as when he is on the pitch he is the one who still sets the standards and the one which all the players look up to.

Improve the players around Gerrard and he will thrive and not try to do everything himself, like 2008/9 when he was surrounded by quality.

[Gerrvindh]

The captain for me should be the player who most inspires others.  For me that is still Gerrard, as when he is on the pitch he is the one who still sets the standards and the one which all the players look up to.

Improve the players around Gerrard and he will thrive and not try to do everything himself, like 2008/9 when he was surrounded by quality.

I agree with Z e u s.

There I said it.

[Tony18:5]

I believe Gerrard will remain captain next season, (who sadly in some ways) remains our most influential player.

Reina; Agger and Skrtel are all in front of Lucas.

[Z e u s]

I agree with Z e u s.

There I said it.

Well don't say it like that!

[gamble]

Last season showed we can cope without steven gerrard, but we can't cope without lucas.

[Cpt_Reina]

Think there are many benefits to giving the armband to someone else (Lucas would also be my choice).

Gerrard for all that he does and all that he has done is an overwhelmingly strong figurehead of this team. Local lad, arguably our best player ever, talisman, 1 club man and someone who has been a leader.

But, is having such an archetypal 'Captain fantastic' such a beneficial thing? There's no doubt in my mind that Gerrard's presence in the team sometime swamps others' ability to step up to the mark themselves.

It's not even necessarily Gerrard's fault. It's become very easy to pass the book and for teammates to look to Gerrard to just 'do something'. Much easier to hope that Gerrard will drag us out of the shit again than it is to do it yourself.

We need more players willing to be that man who stands up to be counted. And to do that that might mean toning down Gerrard's influence on and off the pitch.

The likes of Lucas, Skrtel, Agger, Pepe are all leaders. They just dont really appear to have the authority. The local lads hoover it up like a vacuum.

And then there's also the fact that given Carra's age and ability and Gerrard's injuries we often find ourselves without a captain or vice captain on the pitch. Players like Lucas and Skrtel are almost ever presents.

It wouldnt just be change for change's sake. No point taking it off Gerrard just because we're starting afresh. There could well be practical benefits to alleviating Gerrard of  the burden of picking this team up, yet again.

Not that I think it'll happen...

[-Q-]

The captain for me should be the player who most inspires others.  For me that is still Gerrard, as when he is on the pitch he is the one who still sets the standards and the one which all the players look up to.

Improve the players around Gerrard and he will thrive and not try to do everything himself, like 2008/9 when he was surrounded by quality.

[Tony18:5]

Last season showed we can cope without steven gerrard, but we can't cope without lucas.

2 Cup finals suggest otherwise.

[El_Pistolero]

To be honest, I've toyed with the idea in my head many times. But, I don't think it will do us any good really. Stevie is still an inspiration I feel, the players still look to him and he still carries an air of authority and respect.

I do think it;s time for Jamie to be stripped of the Vice-Captaincy, give it to Pepe fulltime.

[BarryCrocker]

Like them or loathe them, FSG have established a pattern concerning the way they go about doing business.

Steven Gerrard is not that man. Lucas Leiva is.

You do remember that we are the still the same club who kept Jamie Redknapp as our club captain during a period where he never played a match for us. Including the FA Cup Final where he lifted the trophy with Robbie Fowler.

Stevie was given the armband by Ged to make him mature as a player. Had Hyppia been a scouser that change would not have happened when it did.

[Vidocq]

even without the armband, other players would look at Stevie as a leader

he's a leader no matter what kind of football we're playing

[Red Genius]

He remain Captain until the day he retires, whether he's always first choice on the pitch is another question. But when he is he'll walk on with the armband. I think that's fairly certain.

[Z e u s]

even without the armband, other players would look at Stevie as a leader

he's a leader no matter what kind of football we're playing

So he deserves the armband then.

Let's not rock the boat and change something which ultimately is pretty pointless.

Whether Lucas, Reina, Agger, Skrtel Gerrard, Carragher etc are captain or not, it won't change how they play or lead by example with their performances.

Gerrard deservedly got the captains armband and I see no need to change it, given he still is the most respected and the inspiration to others.

[Aristotle]

It's only a matter of time though. Carragher is on his last season as a player and Gerrard hasn't played 30 games a season in 2 years and if anything be the least likely to do so now than ever in his career.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

So he deserves the armband then.

Let's not rock the boat and change something which ultimately is pretty pointless.

Whether Lucas, Reina, Agger, Skrtel Gerrard, Carragher etc are captain or not, it won't change how they play or lead by example with their performances.

Gerrard deservedly got the captains armband and I see no need to change it, given he still is the most respected and the inspiration to others.

Well it's simple.

The captain determines how we play on the pitch. Gerrard has a history of completely disrupting the shape of the team by trying to win the match by himself - picking the ball up in all sorts of weird areas, giving away possession and leaving the other players uncertain of what they should be doing and where they should be moving. On occasion it leads to spectacular victories - usually though it creates a lot of holes in our shape which the opposition can exploit. If we are pressing high up the pitch that's potentially suicidal.

That's why Rafa couldn't play him in the middle - he lacks the awareness of team shape or the discipline to play in a way that benefits it.

So what happens when the captain of the club has one vision of football and the manager has another?

[Fromola]

2 Cup finals suggest otherwise.

How many league games did we win last season in games that Gerrard started?

How many league games did we win last season in the games that Gerrard didn't play?

[stevied]

Player who in the team on the day that has the most appearances if you cant agree on Gerrard

[Z e u s]

Well it's simple.

The captain determines how we play on the pitch. Gerrard has a history of completely disrupting the shape of the team by trying to win the match by himself - picking the ball up in all sorts of weird areas, giving away possession and leaving the other players uncertain of what they should be doing and where they should be moving. On occasion it leads to spectacular victories - usually though it creates a lot of holes in our shape which the opposition can exploit. If we are pressing high up the pitch that's potentially suicidal.

That's why Rafa couldn't play him in the middle - he lacks the awareness of team shape or the discipline to play in a way that benefits it.

So what happens when the captain of the club has one vision of football and the manager has another?

It is not Gerrard's fault he is surrounded by some inferior players and feels he has to do it single handedly. 

It is also not Gerrard's fault he gets played in centre midfield - he gets told where to play.

Put Gerrard higher up the field, surrounded by quality - he'll thrive as he'll have less disciplined defensive responsibility which is needed in centre midfield and he can press high up the field and force mistakes, like he did for the Welbeck goal for England last weekend or the Suarez goal against Norwich.

Rodgers has to get the best out of Gerrard, for the good of the team.  But to strip our best player for the last 10 years of the armband or question his value to the team when he still looks like a rose amongst thorns when on the field, is just wrong.

Put Gerrard in the right position, surround him with quality and he will thrive.

[Tony18:5]

How many league games did we win last season in games that Gerrard started?

How many league games did we win last season in the games that Gerrard didn't play?

No idea why?

[edeyj]

Gerrard remains captain for me. Done nothing to suggest it should be removed. Explain to me how the England captain would then have his club captaincy revoked?

[stardorman]

Lucas Leiva captain of Brazil & Liverpool.. mmmm i like the sound of that.

[jDJ]

The captain determines how we play on the pitch.

Not convinced that's even in the slightest bit true.

[Liverbird88]

For me Gerrard has to remain captain. Hes still our most influencial player and even though he has been injured more frequently, he can still come on and boss a game. And he is a local lad.

[Adeemo]

Whilst I agree that there is at least an argument for a change of captain in order to look to the future and if it were to happen then Lucas would be my choice, but ultimately there's no chance Brendan Rodgers is going to take the captain's armband off Steven Gerrard as one of his first acts as Liverpool manager, just won't happen.

[Red Genius]

Not convinced that's even in the slightest bit true.

It's not.

[The Jackal]

At the very least Lucas should be made VC. Can't see BR being so bold as to strip Stevie of the captaincy. Realistically however Carra isn't going to play that many games so it would make sense to have a VC who takes over duties when Stevie is not playing (which could be fairly often depending on injuries). Lucas should be that man

[The Repeated Meme]

Rodgers has to get the best out of Gerrard, for the good of the team.  But to strip our best player for the last 10 years of the armband or question his value to the team when he still looks like a rose amongst thorns when on the field, is just wrong.

Put Gerrard in the right position, surround him with quality and he will thrive.

This is the nub of it for me. There's a danger with this 'Year Zero' view that we make changes for change's sake.

Just like in the Army, having the pips on your shoulder doesn't make you a leader. (Indeed, my colour sergeant at Sandhurst made this clear by the withering observation to me that the most dangerous thing on the battlefield is a second lieutenant with a map). Everyone has to do their job, everyone has to lead at some point - the man with the armband can provide inspiration, and Stevie does that in spades.

The crucial thing for us to fix is his need to do everything when its going pear-shaped. That means giving him (and other key leaders) the confidence that everyone else does know their job. That's Brendan's job.

[Z e u s]

At the very least Lucas should be made VC. Can't see BR being so bold as to strip Stevie of the captaincy. Realistically however Carra isn't going to play that many games so it would make sense to have a VC who takes over duties when Stevie is not playing (which could be fairly often depending on injuries). Lucas should be that man

You say that but if we have two teams next season, as many suggest we should - one for the Europa / League Cup and another for the Premiership.  Then we could see Gerrard and Lucas used in the league team, as they are both first chocie players.  So in the Europa Cup side you would expect to see Carragher play and therefore it would make sense to have him as captain for those games.

Don't see any need to rock the boat, unless Carragher leaves and then we have to promote someone to vice.  But even if that occured I think Skrtel, Reina and Agger have just as much chance of getting the role as Lucas... maybe even Suarez in a few years time, as he is an inspiring character and has experience of captaining clubs.

But until we have a decision to make (Gerrard or Carragher leave the club), I see no reason to rock the boat.

[Lemieux]

I firmly believe we need a new captain, Steven has been our most influential player the past 3 seasons on reputation only.  He can be massively influential in a bad way like so many have said here players still look to him because he has the armband and because of his past.  Unfortunately he isn't good enough anymore to consistently impose himself on games and relying on him still does not amount to anything more times than not.  Removing the captaincy would be another big step toward the future and letting go of another symbol of our past, we have to keep moving forward.  No disrespect to Stevie, I feel its just time now.

[Z e u s]

The crucial thing for us to fix is his need to do everything when its going pear-shaped. That means giving him (and other key leaders) the confidence that everyone else does know their job. That's Brendan's job.

The final against Chelsea I thought was telling - we saw two sides of Gerrard, the one trying to do everything and the one who was doing what was best for the team.

In the first half Gerrard was almost playing in centre midfield in a three and Suarez was isolated.  Now I don't know if Gerrard was instructed to do this by Dalglish or naturally Gerrard did it.  But he was trying to do too much and although he got plenty of the ball and we probably had more possession than Chelsea in that first half, in the Chelsea half we only had Suarez.

But when Carroll came on the pitch, Gerrard and Henderson were in centre midfield and Gerrard they just controlled the game.  Despite us needed to score, Gerrard wasn't bombing forward all the time leaving us exposed.  He was disciplined and let the wide players and Suarez / Carroll try and win the game and he controlled it.  That was an example of where he gave a captains performance, as he knew he had to be the disciplined player, as it was best for the team.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Gerrard for me is the past. His injury and form for the last three years (A few fantastic efforts aside) has simply not been good enough for Liverpool FC. If his injuries continue and his form continues then it's time for us to move on as a club. Excellent player for us in his day. But his day has gone.

[Z e u s]

Gerrard for me is the past. His injury and form for the last three years (A few fantastic efforts aside) has simply not been good enough for Liverpool FC. If his injuries continue and his form continues then it's time for us to move on as a club. Excellent player for us in his day. But his day has gone.

His best days are probably gone, but he can still be a huge asset, if used correctly IMO.  Just like Giggs and Scholes are at United.

[Adeemo]

I'm sure Rodgers will first want to see what he can get out of Gerrard, both in terms of form and appearances, he'll then reassess the role of captain this time next year.

[Adeemo]

His best days are probably gone, but he can still be a huge asset, if used correctly IMO.  Just like Giggs and Scholes are at United.

Neither of them captain.

[tea_tree]

I agree with the OP. Lucas has been the best captain material for a while now.

I think it's sad that we have a vice-captain as a designated role. No other big club I can think of has one...it seems like something a bit small time that was created to appease certain people or a certain person.