Topic: Bridging the Gap to a Structured Playmaking Style

[Z e u s]

Donīt worry, we wonīt be able to attract them anyway. 

... I think we do need big names if they stand for top quality to add to our game week in, week out. The one Suarez is offering as an example. Unfortunately in todays football they all cost big money.

But someone like Cisse at Newcastle would have enhanced us significantly last season, he hardly cost a fortune.

Yes sometimes you get more for what you spend, but if you look hard enough you can find cheaper diamonds who can compliment Suarez, Gerrard and enhance our side.

[steveeastend]

Yes sometimes you get more for what you spend, but if you look hard enough you can find cheaper diamonds who can compliment Suarez, Gerrard and enhance our side.

I agree, but it will be harder to attract them with no big name manager. 

And thatīs why I asked what do you expect? The likes of Cisse couldnīt help Newcastle to make it top 4. It was good enough for some nice footy and making it 5th with playing on the counter for almost the entire season which is always easier.

The likes of Cisse wonīt help us winning the PL which has been quoted as our main goal in todays press conference. Our owners cleary living the "moneyball dream", unfortunately football isnīt any romantic at all.

[Z e u s]

I agree, but it will be harder to attract them with no big name manager. 

And thatīs why I asked what do you expect? The likes of Cisse couldnīt help Newcastle to make it top 4. It was good enough for some nice footy and making it 5th.

The likes of Cisse wonīt help us winning the PL which has been quoted as our main goal in todays press conference. Our owners cleary living the "moneyball dream", unfortunately football isnīt any romantic at all.

I think Cisse is quality, a real finisher and it was not his fault they didn't get top four.  As we know with Gerrard - one man can't do it on his own, you need a whole team of quality and that is what let Newcastle down.

I don't know what funds Rodgers has.  He said the wheelborrow isn't over flowing, which suggests not much.  Although he might be saying that to helop get reasonable fees for players.

I don't know what you mean by what do I expect?  In terms of where we can finish next season? or do you mean who we can sign?

I think without singing anyone, top four is very achievable and should be the target.

[mercurial]

Great OP, Roy! I really learn a lot from the way you, prof, Juan et all analyze the team and tactics.

Some of the things which will determine Rodgers success would be can he take the system forward. Barcelona is to me the epitome of the slow, languid, possession football. They will probe for weakness but will not force things unless desperate. The probing they do is possible because of the quality they have in the final third. What swansea lacked is the ability to keep the ball in that zone for long and partly as they lacked quality. In that final third is where the tiki-taka is really put to the test. Now not only do you have to keep the ball but also probe relentlessly.For a team like ours, we cannot hope to do this now. Suarez is quality, he fits in effortlessly and strangely I feel Carroll is a great player to have in here. Not for passing but for drawing defenders out of positions, create spaces for others and shield the ball. His one weakness is that he does not read the game. I wonder whether he will be in position when passed the ball after a complex set of moves. That can be taught and if he can even get on the end of 50% of those he will score many goals.  The problem is the supporting cast needs improvement. If Aquilani stays then he fits in but not Gerrard.

It may only be an impression, fluidity of movement I think is where we will also be put to the test. To be really successful, you have to build a system where you have fluidity but tactical discipline as a team. Having defenders move to the top of the opponents box and to have a left back move into the CM role and still play fluid takes time to build into the team. So you need to keep a shape to the team and not leave gaping holes to counter easily. You need to make marking difficult and make zonal marking difficult. If you see Barca for example they find weakness in zonal marking using tactics where they bunch up players together in certain areas dragging defenders out of other zones and then exploit those spaces. If the opponent does not get players in to defend then their short passing in that zone will create a opening. So when we have 2 banks of 4 defending it will not be easy to break in without making the transition to being a fluid side where all the pieces on the chess board are moving in patterns.  That means we have to commit men forward. We have to have players who can make decisions when to rotate and when to play the incisive pass. Also players who can read the game and react accordingly. That we lack now and a couple of years before we have a team ready for that.

This is where I think Rodgers system will be tested initially. I do not think he will commit to making the final third so fluid. As Roy said, it about transitions in play. The transition when you regain possession and the transition when you lose the ball. Barca makes a wonderful transition to defence. Look at how the team as a whole starts to fall back but keep their shape and press at the same time. You need to do this before you can commit to the playing style in the final third. This is one area where I did not see implemented at swansea. I have not seen any other team apart from barca do it so effectively and not in the premier league. If in 3-4 years we can get somewhere near that then title would be a step away.

[steveeastend]

I think Cisse is quality, a real finisher and it was not his fault they didn't get top four.  As we know with Gerrard - one man can't do it on his own, you need a whole team of quality and that is what let Newcastle down.

I don't know what funds Rodgers has.  He said the wheelborrow isn't over flowing, which suggests not much.  Although he might be saying that to helop get reasonable fees for players.

I don't know what you mean by what do I expect?  In terms of where we can finish next season? or do you mean who we can sign?

I think without singing anyone, top four is very achievable and should be the target.

Cisse is a striker who almost always played in counter attacking sides and I donīt think he would fit into a possession typ of game plan.

I think to expect top 4 without any additional signings is unrealistic. If we wonīt sign three top players, I donīt think top 4 is a realistic possibilty because playing the euro league puts even more pressure on the squad which is not ready to win the number of games needed in a two games/week scenario.

[redmark]

Cisse is a striker who almost always played in counter attacking sides and I donīt think he would fit into a possession typ of game plan.

I think to expect top 4 without any additional signings in unrealistic. If we wonīt sign three top players, I donīt think top 4 is a realistic possibilty because playing the euro league puts even more pressure on the squad which is not ready to win the number of games needed in a two games/week scenario.

There's a gap between "no signings" and "three top players". Do we have a worse squad than Newcastle? Seriously? They challenged for it. The fact is we significantly underachieved last season. Certainly some of the players were culpable but so was the management, which produced a team which was effectively 'less than the sum of it's parts'. With no signings at all, we should quite feasibly be ahead of Everton and Newcastle, close to or challenging Spurs and Arsenal.

[Z e u s]

Cisse is a striker who almost always played in counter attacking sides and I donīt think he would fit into a possession typ of game plan.

I think to expect top 4 without any additional signings is unrealistic. If we wonīt sign three top players, I donīt think top 4 is a realistic possibilty because playing the euro league puts even more pressure on the squad which is not ready to win the number of games needed in a two games/week scenario.

Maybe I rate the players we have higher than you do?

I think we have the basis of a very good team without new signings.  Saying that we can certainly improve in many areas, especially in the attacking positions.

I am not saying I expect top four, I am saying it is very much achievable and should be the aim.

We need to have a good start to the season, get some confidence and momentum going, then who knows anything is possible.

[Z e u s]

With no signings at all, we should quite feasibly be ahead of Everton and Newcastle, close to or challenging Spurs and Arsenal.

and Spurs are going to lose some of their key players.  I can't see them keeping hold of Modric or Bale.

[steveeastend]

I think you both overestimating the quality of our side AND underestimating the demandings of playing thursday/sunday week in, week out and Rodgers with no experience in this and trying to implement a new system.

In addition, Lucas has just come back from injury, he will need time. Agger, Gerrard, Henderson, Dowing, Carroll, Reina with a shorter pre season because of the euros.

Without any additions, we wonīt be able to compete with Arsenal, City, ManU (although I think they will be having a tough next season) and Chelsea. Tottenham will depend if Bale, Adebayor and van der Vaart will be staying. Buying all three of them would be good start IMO

[gregorio]

Thank you for a detailed and interesting OP. Last season I lost count of the number of  times players missed opportunities to build on possession by failing to take positive decisions. Creative thinking and positive risk taking under pressure are lacking much of the time, Rodgers certainly appears to have the right qualities to address this.

[Z e u s]

underestimating the demandings of playing thursday/sunday week in, week out

I am hoping that will be the likes of Sterling, Suso, Shelvey, Robinson and fringe players rather than our first XI playing in the Europa League.  Especially in the early rounds.  I don't think that should be a factor in our league performance, as I can't see Gerrard, Suarez etc all playing in it week in, week out.

[koppper]

Tiki-Taka = modern day Pass and Move.
Collective Management Team = modern day Boot Room.

We are truly reborn as Digger has said. I am looking forward to our new style which may take some time to bed in but with 3 or so additions plus Aquilani and Sterling it looks exciting.

[Raul!]

What I find interesting that a well defined set of tactics - or a football philosophy - enables us to see better defined roles for out existing players and indeed, see some of them in a better light than we might have in the past.

For me, an attacking midfielder of quality, a Lucas type to work or rotate with Lucas and another forward is what I think he might look at first to implement what I have read is his thinking. To start with.

[The Ghost of Titi Camara]

I firmly believe we have the raw materials to play an intelligent, fluent, penetrative game on the ball and a high tempo, agressive pressing game off the ball. We have two XIs packed with players who are more than capable of playing this way if they're given firm instruction over a period of time, well-drilled and if the less intelligent among them are reined in, with others afforded slightly more freedom in their movement and decision-making. Below are the two XIs I think fit closest to the style we've been discussing and I would hope that our idea is to maintain a fluidity between the stiffs and the first XI, so that every player knows they have plenty of direct competition for their role.

                     Reina                                                                                               Gulasci
Johnson   Skrtel Agger    Enrique*                                   Kelly (Flanagan)   Coates    Wilson (Wisdom) Robinson

                   Lucas                                                                                                Coady
   Gerrard                 Aquilani                                                              Shelvey                      Suso

Suarez                        Maxi/Bellamy                                Eccleston/Pacheco                                      Sterling
                  Carroll                                                                                             Morgan     



*Enrique is my only worry in that first XI. He showed throughout last season that he's desperately one-footed, constantly has to repeat his tractoresque turning circle when cutting inside and isn't the brightest, although it didn't help that he had Downing ahead of him for most games, since, as we've discussed on other threads, his movement lacks guile and creates difficulties for the full-back when we attack.

For me, it'd be madness not to keep Aquilani, as he's the best player on our books in either AM role in terms of balancing creativity with tactical discipline. He intercepts, has a superb passing range and good decision-making skills, drives into defences with direct passing, is versatile on the ball and makes things happen in the final third, which will be imperative for us when we switch to a more patient style. He does like to take several touches on the ball before releasing it, which is fine if he's afforded space, but having said that, I don't think he's the kind of player who would wilt if forced to play it early most of the time, since he has a great eye for triangles.

For his movement alone, Maxi is worth 10 goals a season minimum if he's a regular starter (in terms of his goals and assists). Even if not, he's a very valuable option to have in this new system as his late runs into the box give us an additional threat we desperately lacked last season. Bellamy can't play every game, so I'd love to see him, Maxi and Sterling rotated in this position.

I've omitted Dirk because it's unclear what his position is re: Rodgers, but although he presses well, we may have seen the best of his attacking game, so I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't with us next season. I'd be disappointed if Adam and Downing were still here come August, since I just don't believe they have the intelligence or decision-making abilities this system requires. Although Downing can be a threat when he skips to the byline and gets an early ball in, that's no way to guarantee consistent goals, especially when we usually only have one man in the box. It's also not consistent with the philosophy I expect us to adopt.

We also clearly need an upgrade on Spearing, who I'd expect to be on his way despite significant improvement over the last two years, and it seems we've been looking for a while. Like some others, I'd be interested to see Coady as an understudy to Lucas in pre-season to see how he makes the step up in that system. It's anathema to some on here, but I really do believe too many of are guilty of seeing things in Henderson which just aren't there. He's a very, very limited player indeed and the constant defence of him as a player who can 'move the ball' or 'keep it ticking over' (i.e. pass the thing to another red shirt) is an indictment of his weaknesses. I'd be disappointed if Rodgers falls for this apologia when we have several players capable of adding much more to our game in Aquilani (it's absurd to even have to justify his inclusion ahead of Henderson), Shelvey, Suso and possibly Teixeira if he's eased into the squad. All of those mentioned are capable of playing as playmaker AMs (since I don't expect that responsibility to fall with Lucas at DM) or in the case of Aquilani, Shelvey and Suso, as the slightly deeper, more disciplined AM supporting another who's in a free role.

There's much to be done this summer and in terms of signings, I believe we're short of a quality left back who's good on the ball (the perennial Insua regret may never wane), a DM capable of stepping in for Lucas at a similar level, a threatening, intelligent winger capable of playing on both sides or as an inside forward, and a well-rounded striker capable of linking between the wide men and midfield, as well as playing off the shoulder and burning defenders for pace (unleashing Aquilani, Stevie and Suso's creative potential).

It would also be refreshing to see Pacheco used in an inside forward role in pre-season to see how he's developed on his loan spells, since he has in theory all the qualities to thrive in that position in our new system. Of the ressie keepers, Doni is the most capable of playing the sweeper role, but I doubt him and Jones will be on our books at the start of the season and we could do with an upgrade in the back-up keeper position anyway. Although not a priority, I'd also like us to add a striker to the Academy who fits into this new model to compete with Morgan and Ngoo and can perhaps end the season training with the first team occasionally, with a view to challenging Carroll and whoever we bring into the first team, assuming we do.

[JP-65]

Good O.P. Roy

For me, what will be interesting is seeing how he uses the funds available, in two ways:

firstly, the amount available, while small by big team standards, is well beyond what he's had to use before, so how does he split it, and how well does he utilise it

secondly, how he sees the squad, and what needs to be upgraded, versus what is "common opinion" in here.

What is good as well, is that our reserves played Swansea last season, so he's had an exposure to what's in our system, obviously he'll be guided by Segura/Borrell, but I'm sure he's formed some opinions already.

[BazC]

What I find interesting that a well defined set of tactics - or a football philosophy - enables us to see better defined roles for out existing players and indeed, see some of them in a better light than we might have in the past.

For me, an attacking midfielder of quality, a Lucas type to work or rotate with Lucas and another forward is what I think he might look at first to implement what I have read is his thinking. To start with.

That was one of the criticisms last season wasn't it? The lack of definition in our football. Many commented on that lack of coherent plan when it came to the football we were playing. Hopefully that's the first thing to change this summer.

We need another Lucas-type player for sure. But I think the wide attacking areas are also going to be areas where he'll change things around with new faces coming in if possible.

It'll be interesting to see how the strikers are assessed. There was a point last season when I called Carroll shite. Not long after that, he started putting in some properly beast-like performances; holding the ball up, playing it one touch, getting on the end of chances more etc. As importantly, he was making himself a nuisance when the ball was with the other team and in 50-50s. We only saw that at the end of the season so who knows if he'll carry it on. But if he does, then I can't see how he'd not fit into the team as the front man. Someone the likes of Gerrard, Suarez and the other supporting attackers can really play off. Hopefully he's fired up after a good European tournament, and ready to build himself a career at Liverpool FC as a world class player.

[steveeastend]

I was pretty impressed with Rodgers first interview, especially these quotes...

I'm very much a realist. It's certainly going to be a few years in relation to where the team is at now. It will need some investment and it will need time for me to work. But of course we're in the business of winning and winning games is important. But it's a philosophy and a style that's very much in the DNA of me and the club and hopefully we can roll that out over the years to come.

There is even more in this interview related to this thread but it doesnīt make sense to post everything. He is very clear on his vision of play and the players he needs for that and itīs clear to him that there have to be additions coming in.

I think the bottom line is that he will have to bring in players in addition in order to have a squad to play the vision of football he is after and not the other way around, I think he was pretty clear in that. We have to be patient, next season will be a transition (again).

[ThingOnASpring]

I will be really interesting to see how long it takes Bren to implement his ideas. Swansea already have the building blocks in place so that made his job easier and it took Barca the better part of seven years to get the type of football they are playing now and that is with a trio of the best players in world football.
Bottom line is we have to be patient, high impact possession football can't be implemented over night.

Probably already commented on, as only just started reading the thread, and reflecting as I read, but in some ways Rafa may have left us a good legacy here, in terms of the high impact possession football. Many of the players still here learnt under Rafa, and many aspects of the two managers coincide, so it isn't as bad as starting from scratch for many of them. Hopefully for some players it will be a case of refreshing rather than restarting

[A Day 2 Remember]

Not sure if it's been discussed but one of the big differences Brendan will have to overcome is the approach other teams take when they play Liverpool. Teams tend to sit back on us and this makes it difficult to break them down. Can he coach us to overcome our opositions mentality.

[lfcderek]

Interesting times ahead Roy!

I believe that your phrase 'pivotal decision' is the key to the success of the project. The hope is that with a higher quality of individual player at Liverpool than was available at Swansea, the 'lets go' will happen more often, and with a higher rate of success!

I believe that we have a lot of players that can fit with BR's methods and that coaching can instill the required disciplines, particularly in the rather nebulous areas like 'pressing your own area'. Get that wrong and good teams will not be frightened of passing their way through the gaps that it would open up.

Patience will be a major element in all things Liverpool in the coming months (and years) both from the players on the pitch and the fans on the terraces. We won't be getting the 'pivotal decisions' right every time to begin with. Groans and discontent from us will only make the players reluctant to make a decision at all.

Groans and discontent  might be more forthcoming than we might hope for from these current, sunlit, upland pastures of pre-season. Watching Swansea was great at times but, when their opposition was good, kept their shape and covered any 'off the ball runs', the ball would be pushed back into their own half and they would try it all again – and garner some large possession %s  in doing so. Now this may sound a bit sacrilegious but I found it rather tedious. All very well when taking place on the outskirts of the opposition penalty area – less so when 10 yards in your own half.

So patience brothers – it won't come overnight.

Personnel wise it's quite promising really.  That extra individual quality over Swansea is there all right – any in many cases of the right type.

Reina
Johnson Skrtl Agger Enrique(?)
Lucas Henderson
Gerrard
Suarez Carroll Downing(?)

Enrique defended very well for most of the year but never impressed me with his passing. Maybe he suffers unfairly when compared with Aurelio who was simply imperious. Can't think of a full back as good as him for, well, ever actually.

Downing's ? comes from the fact that he simply didn't play well last year. He's got the ability – a big job early doors for RB to solve.

Kuyt and Maxi would be good to rotate in but it seems we might lose both. Bellamy will be great for as many matches as his knees allow. Aquilani will be fantastic if he's here next year. Coates,  Kelly, Shelvey, Robinson, Sterling, Suso – lubbly jubbly. Possible additions are for the tranfer board.

“When the mode of football insists on winning the ball back as quickly as possible whenever it's lost, and when it's won, having the player with the ball make a pivotal decision: "is it 'on'?", it's here that the whole thing becomes sensitive to quality.”

Like in those rather hackneyed SWOT analyses sometimes, the Opportunity and Threat are one in the same. As it stands, if Shelvey is in there he will often 'go for it' even if he shouldn't, Downing won't even if he should. Correctable on the training ground – Sorry Teaching Area? Time will tell.

One interesting aside. BR has been quick to praise JC in the few clips I have heard from him so far. Given that all of us seem to think that Jamie is the player least likely to fit in to a BR team – does this sound an early exit for JC to the coaching staff?

[gregorio]

Tiki-Taka = modern day Pass and Move.
Collective Management Team = modern day Boot Room.

We are truly reborn as Digger has said. I am looking forward to our new style which may take some time to bed in but with 3 or so additions plus Aquilani and Sterling it looks exciting.

Looking back on his quotes about the need to establish a new footballing philisophy it's almost as if he knew something!

[Not A Scouser]

The thing I like most about the system - pressing high up the pitch, using possession as a defensive tactic, tiring the opposition through making them chase the ball, and pulling the opposition out of position to create space in the opponent's box - is that it fits a team that is expected by both teams to win a game.  At home against West Bromwich Albion, WBA will park the bus.  For Liverpool to head towards the top of the League we will have to find a way to beat those teams.  Dropping back when the opposition have the ball, letting them pass it around their defence and "rest", winning it in our own half and then basing a game on crossing the ball into a crowded box is not a good method for winning against an opposition that sets out to defend with eight players around the penalty area.  That's what we saw last year and the difference in our record against "bad" teams and "good" teams was striking, at least to me.

I do worry about how some of our players will fit into this system.  Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas will all obviously fit.  I worry about both Carroll and Suarez up front, Carroll because of his technical skills (he's not bad as long as he doesn't touch the ball more than three times) and Suarez because of his propensity to dribble a ton.  It may be that Suarez time at Ajax means that he's actually more suited to this style and we haven't seen his best yet.  Gerrard could be great or poor depending on whether he decides to fully commit to the system, he is a great short passer but wandering around upsets the whole machine.  i think the much maligned duo of Downing and Henderson will be much better in this system, but I fear Adam will be doomed.

It's going to take a while for this system to bed-in.  It will rely on good decisions made at speed, which requires the system to be drilled into heads until it is unconscious.  We'll look better at the end of the year than the beginning.  It will come down to clever football.

I am interested in the transition from academy to reserves to the first team.  It is well known that the academy guys wanted to play a 433 but went along with Rafa's 4231.  As far as I know Rodgers plays a pressing, technical 433, what the academy wanted.  It seems that going from one to the other is just a tweak (moving some people five yards forward or five yards back) so I wonder if that change will happen?

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

yeah i think a lot of people dont realise thats still gonna be the case this season.

teams will park the bus still.....how the midfield is set up will be key

imo rodgers will need his bag of tactics to open up defences.

we will need to get numbers in the box but certain players wont be just able to stay out wide on the opposite side anymore...sorry downing lol
copy maxis natural instinct and come in as the ball is reaching the final 3rd......

also the midfielders....one needs to read and asses if a chance is going to be on and drift into support on the blindside......we didnt have enough of that last season probably because enrique and downing liked to slow it down rendering it a useless tactic.

saying that some of our midfielders dont have that ability to hover assess and make a good decision off the ball....but still not over loading making us vulnerable.

[Il Capitano]

Tiki-Taka = modern day Pass and Move.

Not really. It's modern day Total Football, as pioneered by Rinus Michels during the late nineteen sixties with Ajax and Holland. Similar principles to classic Liverpool pass and move, though.

[spider-neil]

Will be really interesting to see how Gerrard will be used in the new system as his strengths neither lie in playing with his back to goal or short crisp passes. I still think Gerrard's best position is as a forward but it remains to be seen where he'll be used.

[BEAST]

Curious to see what we do at our wide forward positions ..... were Sinclair/Dyer made use of as they were his best option available or does he really want wide forwards in an old school Dutch 433 model.

If he does like the wide forward then that's where we would need to spend money for first 11 quality players.  Basically we would want the "top 4 version" of Sinclair/Dyer and would put ppl like Downing on the outside looking in imo.

[tony new mexico]

Firstly, excellent analysis from Roy my boy as always - top stuff.

On this. I couldn't disagree anymore. You live and die by your philosophies, regardless of circumstances. You implement your strategies from day one and have the group buy into them. If we don't believe in short-term success using it, we'll never achieve long-term success with it.

In one mate.

[The 92A]

There were problems last season but there were also positives, I think Rodgers has got a squad that could look bad one week but could also play Arsenal off the park another. I never bought into the Kenny doesn't have a football philosophy mantra, I suppose some would argue neither did Paisley, I do think that in Kennys teams players get alot of trust to make decisions and that in our midfield there was a lack of football brains after Lucas's injury that meant we really struggled to play intelligent football in the middle of the park and that spread outwards effecting every aspect, hence Roy's excellent stupid football article.
 
I like what i hear from Rodgers, his philosphy sounds great ' he wants to control games with plenty of pressing' We've heard that  before from a Liverpool manager   I'd argue he has some very decent building blocks within that team, for the type of football he wants to play, I think he'll get the patience off the majority of the fans, no matter how much our support has changed, we are a managers club and like managers with a plan, He'll get support in the ground. I only hope he will also recieve patience from the owners if we don't get immediate results, because its often two paces forward one step back when building teams, progress is rarely linear in football.
 
There is a lot taken from Barca there, which is not a problem at all, to succeed building a dynasty it's makes sense to stand on the shoulders of giants rather than reinventing the wheel  but the most important thing is what parts you take and what you add to that base, the something extra that suits your particular team and takes it to a different level. interesting times ahead.

[Vulmea]

tremendous OP, presumably Rodgers was being lined up for Scotland manager or something

we have something like 52 pro's on our books - the lad has said he is here to build and improve and educate - he's got a hell of selection to pick from - throw in the U18's and the lads going to be gozy with the options he has compared to Swansea. Selecting who he'll like, who fits where has to be a mugs game.

He's told us you play a style to suit the players you have not the other way round. Sounds pragmatic the issue will be how quickly he migrates to the style he wants to play. I also hope it means the Swansea style was not the destination but a compromise.

I hope he does not have the type of fixed view Roys opening post suggests even in the 8 zone approach. I was delighted to hear Mourinho (and Rodgers himself say) - he has his own ideas - hopefully that means he's open to other ways of winning - if that means he looks at what Carroll can do and tweaks his system to suit his style (if he wants to) then I'd love that, not that I'm  a particular fan of Carroll but because it would show the tactical intellect we need. I did a thread a while back about not wanting to copy anybody but to be ourselves - if that means we play to a blend and style that Rodgers devises I'll be delighted.

I also dont buy the idea that you have to stick with one style or else it compromises your objective - in fact I think thats out right wrong - flexibility is a major factor in the success of any project - ask any manager worth spit and yes they have a plan but that plan needs to be flexible - you also know that you can't think of everything that means you not only need a plan B or plan C but you need the ability to come up with plan D on your own and spot when its needed. The lad ticked this box with his points on educating players not training them ( or drilling them as per Hodgson) and by highlighting the need for players to be tactically smart.

He's basically told us he may bring in 4 players - that also implies he's bringing with him his analysis of our player weaknesses from Swansea - if its true his opposition analysis is 2nd to none then he should already know a shed load about us and where he thinks we need to improve. What I find surprising is he clearly also thinks he knows ours stiffs, loanees, youngsters etc and how our players fit into his thinking - I'm hoping thats neither arrogance nor complacency - Rafa's first signing was Josemi partly I think because he'd underestimated Steve Finnan due to his poor initial season.

Can people stop talking about tiki-taka please - if we go that root we'll have failed - we want to play our way not be a poor imitation of somebody else - I love the idea of relentless attacking football - a red tide that just crushes the opposition, his ideas of team over individual are also completely in line with how I think football should be played -

I'd agree with many of the comments about mentality -  its his biggest challenge I think - style, tactics, budget all pretty meaningless without the right mentality - the players will have to believe in him, his ideas and themselves, another reason why I'm surprised he's already thinking about other players. Fingers well and truly crossed the lad can implement his ideas because I like what he appears to stand for football wise.

[rafathegaffa83]

Listening to the press conference via the Anfield Wrap, I think a lot of this style at least at the beginning is going to be pragmatic and dictated by the players he has at his disposal. Rightly or wrongly, I can see him almost hybridizing elements of his philosophy with the way we've played over the past few years to ensure some of the more senior players are made content and that we win games. For example, I think people who believe he's going to all of a sudden sell or drop Carragher to the reserves might be in for a bit of a shock, unless he's already employing the Mourinho-style mind games of man management. I'd be prepared to use most of next season as a quasi-write-off if it meant that the Swansea-type style and philosophy become engrained at all levels and it allows for sustainable and consistent winning football and the promotion of talented younger players from next season onwards.

[Free Kuyt]

Great OP as always from Hendo.

I wonder how much of the philosophy that Rodgers wants to introduce matches the direction we were taking under Rafa. The two certainly don't seem miles apart. Relentless attacking football. Well, we were certainly relentless under Rafa, we pressed high, tried to win the ball back in dangerous areas and used Gerrard's first touch and pass with Torres playing on the shoulder as the basis for the 'is it on?' kind of decision making to split open defenses.

I'm hoping that the platform for the style Rodgers wants is still fairly well embedded, certainly amongst the back 4, Lucas and Gerrard. There's no doubt Suarez can fit that style. I think Aquilani could have a renaissance as well - Rafa clearly believed he had what was required and as he settled we played some great football towards the end of Rafa's final season. Okay it was only against the likes of Portsmouth, but we destroyed them for the full 90 minutes the way real contenders destroy sides, with Aquilani pivotal in central midfield. In many ways he could mirror what's happened to Carroll - arrived injured, had a slow start under a huge weight of expectation and then took a collosal amount of flak. Two recent dominant perfomances and everyone suddenly there's a lot of faith in Andy. I think Aquilani deserves the same.

The question for me is what we can get out of the players we've signed post Rafa? Carroll is clearly a beast, but is he one we can use productively? I'm probably in the minority that thinks Downing is a far better player than he's given credit for, someone who puts dangerous deliveries into the box and then gets all the shite when there's no-one attacking them.

Despite the instability (there's an understatement) of the last couple of years, I think we have the basis of a squad that suits Rodgers style. Question marks over some players - Adam, Spearing, maybe Dirk - but that's always the way.

[royhendo]

From the press conference.

"I think every player will tell you they would love to play the way we did at Swansea," he said. "The question is, does every player want to work that hard to play that way? It is hard work. For me, a lot of our game is based on pressing. Our game at Swansea was talked about a lot and lauded in relation to the football. What people didn't recognise is that to have the ball for 65%-70% of the game you have to get it back very, very quickly. So our transition in the game and positioning on the field to get the ball back became very good and that allowed us to beat Manchester City, to beat Arsenal, should have beaten Chelsea and to beat Liverpool. Big players want to play football. It's the other side of the game that will be the important factor."

He added: "My idea is to win the ball higher up the field so you are pressing higher and you are in better positions. You win the ball higher up the pitch so you are closer to goal, and when you do that you need people with good skills. If you win it and you can't attack, you recycle the ball and you then go and play. I don't think it's a case of the players here working any harder because this is a demand anyway, it's an obligation. For me it's not a choice. Do you come in every day and do you work hard or not? No, that's the obligation. It's the tactic that the manager gives to that which determines how hard you work, how hard you press and what your identity is as a team."

[royhendo]

"That was ultimately what won the game and that is what I want to do here. I want to use the incredible support to make coming to Anfield the longest 90 minutes of an opponent's life. That's the idea. I want to see this great attacking football with creativity and imagination, with relentless pressing of the ball. I know what it's like because I had a team like that at Swansea. When people came to Swansea it was probably the longest 90 minutes of their life. So after 10 minutes when they hadn't had a touch of the ball they are looking at the clock and seeing only 10 minutes had gone. It's a long afternoon."

[royhendo]

"You’ve got some wonderful players here, some wonderful talent, but the work over the next number of years is to see if we can get that aligned. The reality is that, right now, it’s not. I’m not going to sit here and bluff. It is going to take a bit of time. There are some big, talented players here but there is no doubt that to get the team to play how I want to play I’ll need to bring in other players. To play the offensive, attacking football we did at Swansea we had to make changes in terms of recruitment."

[spider-neil]

I think that initially we will hold possession in the middle of the pitch (like Swansea) and as we get better (I think years rather than months) we will hold possession deeper and deeper in the opposition's half with the final step being holding possession mostly in the opposition final third.

[lankyguy007]

I think that initially we will hold possession in the middle of the pitch (like Swansea) and as we get better (I think years rather than months) we will hold possession deeper and deeper in the opposition's half with the final step being holding possession mostly in the opposition final third.

I think that's the point. While the structure is implemented and while he's trying to improve the team, it may take time for it to fully function. We may lose goals through giving the ball away in the middle, or we may struggle to have enough penetration or find it difficult to fully control games. It's important BR is given time to improve the team to how he wants it and how he wants them to play.

[vblfc]

The time to transition is key.  There will be a resistance/learning phase to reset the team to the system.  And without pointing to any individual, some players will resist because they dont normally play that way or dont/wont/cant "get it".  this is the challenge for this coming season because it's different trying to change everyone to the system rather than say Masc joining Barca where the system already is in place and resistance is instantly removed.  I suspect Rodgers will want some new blood simply to speed that change and I'm sure he is being so assertive because he knows he must not "negotiate" with players on this.  He spoke several time yesterday about the time it will take. I think its key and I think he knows what he faces.  Some will make it and some will not.

After that is addressed, I really like the idea of quality as the differentaitor - position for position we have potential across the zones and I think some will excel in this that have struggled to date.  It's interesting to see how it plays out.

[steveeastend]

I am absolutely delighted to read this from Rodgers and I couldnīt agree more with every single word heīs been saying here. I just hope he will make no compromises in order to implement what he is after and that he will get the full backing of the board and the people at the club when the going gets tough in the dressing room.

From the press conference.

"I think every player will tell you they would love to play the way we did at Swansea," he said. "The question is, does every player want to work that hard to play that way? It is hard work. For me, a lot of our game is based on pressing. Our game at Swansea was talked about a lot and lauded in relation to the football. What people didn't recognise is that to have the ball for 65%-70% of the game you have to get it back very, very quickly. So our transition in the game and positioning on the field to get the ball back became very good and that allowed us to beat Manchester City, to beat Arsenal, should have beaten Chelsea and to beat Liverpool. Big players want to play football. It's the other side of the game that will be the important factor."

He added: "My idea is to win the ball higher up the field so you are pressing higher and you are in better positions. You win the ball higher up the pitch so you are closer to goal, and when you do that you need people with good skills. If you win it and you can't attack, you recycle the ball and you then go and play. I don't think it's a case of the players here working any harder because this is a demand anyway, it's an obligation. For me it's not a choice. Do you come in every day and do you work hard or not? No, that's the obligation. It's the tactic that the manager gives to that which determines how hard you work, how hard you press and what your identity is as a team."

For me, the first big question will be if itīs possible to play pressing over the entire 90 minutes of a game with having to play two games a week.

Itīs one of those things being different at a big club that there is little to no time for regeneration, more pressure on winning every game (Swansea still finished behind us) so the question will be how he wants us to press and will the players being able to keep the ball if we won it back.

Big questions IMO cause it will determine the difference on the tactical framework and the demandings for the players in terms of fitness.

Dortmund vs Barca? Both of them successfully play pressing but in a very different way... Which way in terms of pressing will we go?

[AlexanderKruseBerg]

I don't think Carragher will get to much time next year, as he don't suit Rodgers style at all.

I think we will play something like this:

Reina

Skrtel    Agger
Johnson                        Enrique

Lucas
Gerrard       NewCM?

NewW/ST?    Carroll    Suarez

or

Reina

Skrtel    Agger
Johnson                        Enrique

Lucas    NewCM?

Gerrard

NewW/ST?                Suarez
Carroll

[Sangria]

For me, the first big question will be if itīs possible to play pressing over the entire 90 minutes of a game with having to play two games a week.

Organised pressing. Not x defensive players and x attacking players, but players responsible for a zone in relation to the rest of the team, and passing over responsibility as the ball moves around, with the team changing shape as the situation changes. It's not enough to play well, you also need to economise on energy whilst playing well, thus leaving a bit in reserve at the end of a game or a season when the opposition are running out.