Author Topic: Japan and South Korea  (Read 2941 times)

Online isildurrr

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Japan and South Korea
« on: May 31, 2012, 11:55:53 PM »
Where do people rate these two countries?

I feel they have caught up with the mid level European teams and are on par with croatia,England etc.

They seem to have taken the best of the European youth structures and implemented it into the grassroots level.

The japanese have kagawa,Honda and the inter left back playing at a top level already.

Ryo and usami(bayern) are highly rated and could make the step up.Uchida and hasebe are doing well in the bundesliga too.

The koreans obviously had ji sung park.I thought the Celtic mid and the Bolton winger would do better but they still have time on their side and have impressed.


They have a player called son who is highly rated in hamburger too.Do you think these two teams will hit a block or can they keep improving till they reach somewhere near the top.they have the right ideas,they have the money and they have populations comparable and outstripping european countries.

« Last Edit: June 4, 2013, 08:29:13 PM by The 5th Benitle »

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #1 on: June 1, 2012, 02:57:31 AM »
I don't see why not.  Korea have a few young players coming through as well apparently but their players don't quite have the appeal of the Japanese players like Honda and Kagawa but yeah, I see no reason for why they couldn't leap frog some of the European nations.  They already must have leap frogged a few.
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Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #2 on: June 1, 2012, 03:26:09 AM »
Never seems to be more than one or two guys at a time though, can't think of a single genuinely world class player(who am i missing?) either.

I think they'd fluctuate between second and third choice seeds in the UEFA qualification campaigns.

As to the future, i don't see them being much more than what they are now to be honest. They've been around for ages already, so what's going to change? And China with all their population have never made an impact at a tournament or produced good footballers.

Never say never i suppose, long way off at the moment though.
« Last Edit: June 1, 2012, 03:36:18 AM by Bob Loblaw »

Offline thereader

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #3 on: June 1, 2012, 03:28:09 AM »
Probably need to wait till the World Cup to really judge that.


Offline Roopy

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #4 on: June 1, 2012, 03:32:56 AM »
Both making great progress in their football development.

Japan in particular are beginning to produce talent that's taken them to another level, with superb technique - which, for me, is pretty much on par with some of the best nations out there. The only thing lacking is the intensity at which they play the game at over 90 mins.

We all know about Kagawa, top player.

Honda ... we are waiting for him to make his next move before we can really judge him, but another brilliant player in the making.

As mentioned, you have the likes of Usami in Germany, and Maeda at Bolton - 2 very exciting prospects ... then you have the likes of Uchida & Nagatomo (Inter) ...

I've read the '100 year plan' that the Japanese Football Association have compiled.

Basically, the main goal outlined this plan is to have every single national team player playing abroad in the top leagues of Europe, and for Japan to win the World Cup within the next 50 years.

I've been over to Japan a few times over the past few years and have watched several J-League fixtures ... very impressed with the quality of the league, playing style, technique ...

The Japanese will be over here in my city (Brisbane) in the next 2 weeks to play Australia in a World Cup Qualifier ... looking forward to seeing the likes of Honda, Okazaki, Kagawa, Endo & co. in action.

In regards to Korean football ... their domestic league is quite competitive too, but a in my opinion its behind the J-League. But they continue to produce very decent players. The lad at Celtic, Ki Sung-Yeung, is a top footballer who should really move on from Celtic soon. Koo Ja-Cheol is another fantastic midfielder they have, very much unheard of unless you follow Asian football closely, but a very smart midfielder now making his mark with Augsburg.

But Korean footballers don't seem to make the best decisions when choosing a club in Europe.

There seems to be an obsession with playing in England, to which they are not suited to at all.

Lee Dong-Gook was prime example, his development as a player was stunted when he signed for Middlesborough ... and don't even get me started on Park Chu-Yong who's wasted an entire season playing for Arsenal reserves ...
« Last Edit: June 1, 2012, 03:42:38 AM by Roopy »

Online eirwen

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #5 on: June 1, 2012, 04:27:11 AM »
I think Japan is quite good, but with more of their players going abroad, it affects their league. All four Japanese teams just lost in AFC CL. Of course league teams and NT are different though.

Offline Coolie High

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #6 on: June 1, 2012, 04:38:45 AM »
On par with Croatia maybe, England no. They've made great strides in the past few years though some of the attacking players Japan have produced in the last 10 years in particular have been very good, Nakata, Kagawa, Honda, Nakumura, Usami etc, the problem is i don't think they have struck the balance of producing great players in other positions which is why nations like England are obviously still ahead of them.

Offline Roopy

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #7 on: June 1, 2012, 05:23:56 AM »
I think Japan is quite good, but with more of their players going abroad, it affects their league. All four Japanese teams just lost in AFC CL. Of course league teams and NT are different though.

Yup ... but ...

Nagoya - performing poorly, currently 10th in the league.

Gamba Osaka - massive club, currently in the relegation zone, a complete mess.

Kashiwa - a small club by Japanese standards ... knocked out by Ulsan, one of Korea's biggest clubs.

FC Tokyo - newly promoted from J2 to J1, made a great start to their league & champions league ..... knocked out Guangzhou, who have immense financial backing. Marcelo Lippi as manager, Lucas Barrios, Cleo, Dario Conca are their foriegn imports ... those 3 are pure class ...

Dario Conca, anyone heard of him? An Argentine playmaker who's the 5th highest paid player in the world.

Chinese clubs can spend more than Japanese & Korean sides on players.


Offline Severely

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #8 on: June 1, 2012, 06:59:16 AM »
Both countries have come forward in leaps and bounds over the last years. Japan in particular is producing players with excellent technique, while the K-League should also become more competitive with the coming introduction of a second division and relegation. So far, I think Japan's ahead in terms of player and league quality and development, which I hate admitting to because I'm Korean, but that's the truth of it. Both countries are starting to really produce some top talents, and far more consistently than a few years ago. I think Korea needs more high profile players to really make European clubs be more willing to take a chance and sign talent straight from Korea, and I hope talents like Lee Chung Yong who has just recovered from his broken leg and has been relegated with Bolton, and Ki Seung Yong at Celtic move to bigger teams. At the moment, I'd say with the quality Japan have in their team, they're at a similar level to mid-level European teams, and might occasionally be able to hold their own against the real heavyweights but Korea's still a bit below that level.
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Offline Roopy

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #9 on: June 1, 2012, 07:28:59 AM »
Both countries have come forward in leaps and bounds over the last years. Japan in particular is producing players with excellent technique, while the K-League should also become more competitive with the coming introduction of a second division and relegation. So far, I think Japan's ahead in terms of player and league quality and development, which I hate admitting to because I'm Korean, but that's the truth of it. Both countries are starting to really produce some top talents, and far more consistently than a few years ago. I think Korea needs more high profile players to really make European clubs be more willing to take a chance and sign talent straight from Korea, and I hope talents like Lee Chung Yong who has just recovered from his broken leg and has been relegated with Bolton, and Ki Seung Yong at Celtic move to bigger teams. At the moment, I'd say with the quality Japan have in their team, they're at a similar level to mid-level European teams, and might occasionally be able to hold their own against the real heavyweights but Korea's still a bit below that level.

Hey Severely  .... I used to play against Ki Sung-Yeung when he was growing up in Australia.

He used to play for a school team called John Paul College ... the whole team (except 1 player) were Korean exchange students. They were unbelievable, but Ki in particular was the standout.

I had to google his name when I saw him playing for Celtic to confirm if it was the same Ki lol.

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #10 on: June 1, 2012, 08:51:00 AM »
I remember when Nakata burst onto the scene in Serie A, he was brilliant! Nakamura must be the best free kick taker i've ever seen.

They are getting better and better players, I'm sure the chinese will soon get better players too.
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Online isildurrr

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #11 on: June 1, 2012, 11:48:42 AM »
I remember when Nakata burst onto the scene in Serie A, he was brilliant! Nakamura must be the best free kick taker i've ever seen.

They are getting better and better players, I'm sure the chinese will soon get better players too.

Don't think the Chinese will get there in the near future.

They have a lot of other things going on,their league is not well run,corruption is a problem and I doubt they would divert a lot of money for football.they made their "statement" with the Olympics.

It could go either way of course given they have football in their DNA to an extent.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #12 on: June 1, 2012, 01:19:21 PM »
I rate Japan and South Korea, but I think it's a bit premature to say they're as good as England. I'm not saying I rate England particularly highly, and both sides attain more from the sum of their parts, but they're still not quite there. Having said that, I eagerly look forward to next world cup where Okazaki, Kagawa and Honda will all line up together for Japan.
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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #13 on: June 1, 2012, 02:00:54 PM »
Don't think the Chinese will get there in the near future.

They have a lot of other things going on,their league is not well run,corruption is a problem and I doubt they would divert a lot of money for football.they made their "statement" with the Olympics.

It could go either way of course given they have football in their DNA to an extent.
There is a lot of money in Chinese football, but all they do is buying foreign players, instead of building academies etc. But the public interest is definitely there so things could change in the future.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #14 on: June 1, 2012, 02:24:15 PM »
Thought Japan and Korea played much better than England last World Cup to be honest, though maybe that doesn't say much.

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Offline DanFromMars

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #15 on: June 1, 2012, 02:46:51 PM »
Thought Japan and Korea played much better than England last World Cup to be honest, though maybe that doesn't say much.



Japan were fucking excellent in SA and went home as heroes. England were a pile of dogshite.
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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #16 on: June 1, 2012, 03:07:53 PM »
Don't think the Chinese will get there in the near future.

They have a lot of other things going on,their league is not well run,corruption is a problem and I doubt they would divert a lot of money for football.they made their "statement" with the Olympics.

It could go either way of course given they have football in their DNA to an extent.
Don't be surprised if the Prem starts looking at academies in China and India.  Massive potential fanbases in those countries.
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Offline Roopy

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #17 on: June 1, 2012, 04:30:45 PM »
Don't think the Chinese will get there in the near future.

They have a lot of other things going on,their league is not well run,corruption is a problem and I doubt they would divert a lot of money for football.they made their "statement" with the Olympics.

It could go either way of course given they have football in their DNA to an extent.

I'd agree with you if you made this comment a few years ago.

The Chinese have had a massive overhaul in terms of administration and the running of the game in recent years.

Ridiculous amounts of money is being invested in the league, and the quality of the Chinese players as well is improving slowly.

The other night I watched Guangzhou Evergrande vs. FC Tokyo in the Asian Champions League.

I expected to see a dodgy Guangzhou outfit where only the big foreign signings would be the stand outs - Dario Conca, Cleo, Lucas Barrios ....

Guangzhou won 1-0 and dominated the game ... and above all I was impressed at the quality of the Chinese players in the squad. The league has progressed a great deal in the past few seasons - before that it was a joke.

They have a lot of ground to make up the Chinese, but they have really cleaned up their act lately.

What they need is for the investment to be spread across the league and not just to the big city teams.

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #18 on: June 1, 2012, 05:22:50 PM »
Don't be surprised if the Prem starts looking at academies in China and India.  Massive potential fanbases in those countries.

i am indian.

there are 3-4 academies already.the difference is that the onus is on the academy to produce the player.there is no implementation of a long term plan by the football federation,they just aren't interested.we might produce a few good players but there won't be any collective approach like the japanese and koreans at least in the near future.

i was under the impression the chinese were similar.but someone else painted a different picture.

searching through the web apparently barcelona have two highly rated japanese in the masia academy one of them being takefuso kubo.early days i know but they are clearly on the up.

2022 should be a good benchmark to judge their progress.

came across a interview by a coach and he said that the cultural ties with brazil have an influence on the way the japanese play

Offline Sindri

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #19 on: June 1, 2012, 06:12:08 PM »
Don't be surprised if the Prem starts looking at academies in China and India.  Massive potential fanbases in those countries.
Didnt Liverpool launch an academy in Delhi last year?

Offline Bakez0151

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #20 on: June 1, 2012, 06:58:51 PM »
Weren't Japan impressive in the U17s WC last year? Read it in an article somewhere. I hope there is an increase of quality Asian players, as well as North Americans actually. Feel they can bring something new and interesting to world football. As well as the obvious benefits in terms of finances to football.

Just read they won their group ahead of France, got to the quarters and lost to Brazil 3-2, after having come from 3-0 down. But impressed with their football.

That Miyaichi that Arsenal have who went on loan to Bolton looks a decent prospect.
« Last Edit: June 1, 2012, 07:03:13 PM by Bakez0151 »
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Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #21 on: June 1, 2012, 09:27:34 PM »
Japan were fucking excellent in SA and went home as heroes. England were a pile of dogshite.

Should have beaten Paraguay as well really, were very unlucky.

If Chinese football wasn't corrupt as fuck and had the same level of grass roots implementation as South Korea then they'd already be a force to be reckoned with to be honest.
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Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #22 on: June 1, 2012, 09:30:16 PM »
I know there's a lot of talk about dodgy decisions in South Korea's favour in the 2002 WC, but that aside this was epic:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HliB9VSxU28?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_GB" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HliB9VSxU28?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_GB</a>
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Offline scatman

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #23 on: June 1, 2012, 09:42:59 PM »
Didnt Liverpool launch an academy in Delhi last year?
Barcelona just launched one in india too
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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2012, 05:35:35 AM »
It’s quite possible that just one year ago, nobody imagined that Hiroki Sakai could transfer to a European club.

When Sakai declared that he “[wanted] to play in a lot of matches” before the 2011 season, it was not a statement of humility but rather recognition of his status as a back-up player. With just nine appearances for Reysol in the 2010 J-League Division 2 season, Sakai wasn’t even listed on the bench for their 2011 opener against Shimizu. His nervousness showed in his first appearance against Omiya Ardija in Round 7, resulting in a performance generously described as unflattering.


"[Sakai's] technique and tactical sense were still in the process of refinement, but his physical abilities combined with his speed, timing, and natural kicking accuracy revealed a natural gift"    

However, Sakai had long been considered a player of great potential ever since joining Reysol’s youth academy. His technique and tactical nous were still in the process of refinement, but his physical abilities combined with his speed, timing, and natural kicking accuracy revealed a natural gift.

As a result he was plucked out of his second year of high school into activities with the top team, and spent half of his first pro year training in Brazil; all decisions carried out by the club in order to bring about Sakai’s awakening.

But Sakai had a fatal weakness: no matter how highly rated he was by others who praised his potential, the player himself had little confidence in his own abilities. He was a quiet player, not one to express himself easily. The lack of confidence weighed heavily; even when Sakai played he was unable to put his true abilities on display.

The change came in Round 10 against Urawa Reds. It was Sakai’s fourth J1 appearance, and just 50 seconds into the match he sent his trademark high-speed cross to Hideaki Kitajima who scored the opening goal. Sakai went on to contribute on defence as well, all but shutting down the Reds on the left side. The youngster appeared to find his his long-lacking confidence with this victory in what would become a crucial turning point.

At the same time, it’s impossible to forget the existence of team-mate Leandro Domingues on the right side. Sakai would often trust the ball to his possession-gifted Brazilian team-mate, allowing the two to create overlaps and drive forward. Whereas in the past Sakai often hesitated on the attack, Leandro brought the Japanese into the run of play and in turn reduced the starlet’s hesitation.




Through his sharp crosses, Sakai continued to accumulate assists. After repeatedly displaying his overlapping skills, he also caught the attention of Olympic coach Takeshi Sekizuka and national team coach Alberto Zaccheroni, distinguishing himself as one of Japan’s top full-backs.

But the player himself would recall that it wasn’t until December that his new, unshakable self-confidence emerged. Days after reports that Santos had expressed interest in a transfer, Sakai’s Reysol would encounter the Brazilian giants at the Fifa Club World Cup.

That offer came as a result of Santos coach Muricy Ramalho’s interest in the right-back. But Sakai himself wished to play for defending J-League champions Reysol and appear in the Asian Champions League and declined.

But his wish to play for Reysol and appear in the Asian Champions League despite the attention of a legend such as Ramalho, combined with his play against Monterrey and Santos in the Club World Cup, seemed to represent a sea change in attitude; Sakai was no longer the timid youth of old, but had found a mental strength to match that of his physicality.

More than anything, the experience caused Sakai to embrace the goal of a move overseas and was certainly a factor in his transfer to Hannover.

Though considered one of Japan’s best full-backs, Sakai still has areas in need of improvement. But from another perspective, he could be concealing even more abilities than previously imagined.

“If I don’t level up as a whole I don’t think I’ll get to play,” said a carefree Sakai after the deal was announced. “I want to extend my capacity as a player in Germany.”

Sakai has grown leaps and bounds mentally as a player, but his modest attitude and friendly smile haven’t changed at all. His legend is only sure to grow further beginning this summer in the Bundesliga.

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article's from a japanese journalist on goal.com.

another young (22) player moving to germany.they clearly have some system set up in japan

Offline Reheat Red

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #25 on: June 4, 2013, 01:44:18 PM »
Japan qualify for the 2014 World Cup in Brazil after getting the point they need in a 1-1 home draw with Australia..

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #26 on: June 4, 2013, 01:52:45 PM »
Great, love seeing Japan. So entertaining to watch and their players really do give it their all. Hopefully see South Korea there aswell so they can repeat their heroics of 2002.

Still wish we'd go for Honda, another player very exciting to see and would light up the league, unlike Kagawa
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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #27 on: June 4, 2013, 02:08:42 PM »
Good news, I quite like certain Japanese players (Honda, Nagatomo). However, am disappointed of their display today. Way below than what I expected of them, they were lucky to get a penalty in the dying minutes of the game. I blame it on the long, draining season and Zaccheroni's tactics.
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Offline OzBomber

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #28 on: June 4, 2013, 06:19:35 PM »
Japan absolutely dominated us last night. Honda and Kagawa linked up so well but their finishing was pretty disappointing. Besides hitting the cross bar Schwarzer only had to make one or two great saves of note, otherwise he wasn't really troubled. Definitely the best team in Asia however, was only undone by Australia's resilience and never say die attitude.

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #29 on: June 4, 2013, 07:06:57 PM »
Leaves the Ausises in a tight position, but they can still make it with 2 wins from the last two. Both home games as well, Jordan and Iraq. Jordan level on points (7), having played a game more. 

Compared to what Australia used to have, the current player quality / age distribution is quite scary, and the reserves / kids to come through also don't seem that promising. Jedinak is a quality player to come in maybe, who else...?



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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #30 on: June 4, 2013, 07:34:11 PM »
Leaves the Ausises in a tight position, but they can still make it with 2 wins from the last two. Both home games as well, Jordan and Iraq. Jordan level on points (7), having played a game more. 

Compared to what Australia used to have, the current player quality / age distribution is quite scary, and the reserves / kids to come through also don't seem that promising. Jedinak is a quality player to come in maybe, who else...?
Kind of wish they'd got the World Cup in 2022, would have been much better than Qatar obviously anyway.

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Re: Japan and south Korea
« Reply #31 on: June 4, 2013, 07:46:30 PM »
South Korea losing to Lebanon at HT, and it could get tricky for them if the score stands.

their remaining 2 games are against the other top teams in the group in Uzbekistan and Iran.....but both at home.

Group B is pretty tasty :D

Offline OzBomber

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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #32 on: June 5, 2013, 04:30:20 AM »
Leaves the Ausises in a tight position, but they can still make it with 2 wins from the last two. Both home games as well, Jordan and Iraq. Jordan level on points (7), having played a game more. 

Compared to what Australia used to have, the current player quality / age distribution is quite scary, and the reserves / kids to come through also don't seem that promising. Jedinak is a quality player to come in maybe, who else...?



Tommy Oar and Rogic look promising with Langerak sure to become our next national keeper but besides that the dearth of talent is definitely unsettling. I wouldn't expect us to do much if we make the World Cup, especially when Cahill is our target man and he's playing in America instead of the Premier League.

The officials keep trying to say that the sport is taking off in the country ever since 2006 but it's definitely not showing in our talent pools.

Offline surfer

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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #33 on: June 5, 2013, 04:03:10 PM »
Tommy Oar and Rogic look promising with Langerak sure to become our next national keeper but besides that the dearth of talent is definitely unsettling. I wouldn't expect us to do much if we make the World Cup, especially when Cahill is our target man and he's playing in America instead of the Premier League.

The officials keep trying to say that the sport is taking off in the country ever since 2006 but it's definitely not showing in our talent pools.

Thanks for that, just saw the highlights, and Oar was the one who got past 3 players on the dribble and put in the cross that forced the goal. It was nice to see, will keep an eye out for Rogic as well.
« Last Edit: June 5, 2013, 04:05:57 PM by surfer »

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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #34 on: June 5, 2013, 09:59:53 PM »
Not on par with Croatia, England or Belgium. Denmark would be closer to their level I think.
Japan has done extremely well these past 15 years. The sport has overtaken (or nearly so) baseball, everybody is playing it and in that short amount of time they have produced very good talents like Endo and Kagawa. Still a long way before being WC contenders though.

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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #35 on: June 5, 2013, 10:06:44 PM »
Denmark who they comfortably beat 3-1 in the last World Cup? Were unlucky not to beat Paraguay in the knock outs as well, ultimately losing on penalties.

They've got the potential to make the semis in 2014, more so than England at this rate.

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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #36 on: June 5, 2013, 10:12:28 PM »
Denmark who they comfortably beat 3-1 in the last World Cup? Were unlucky not to beat Paraguay in the knock outs as well, ultimately losing on penalties.

They've got the potential to make the semis in 2014, more so than England at this rate.
Eh one off game doesn't really decide who is the best team. Are Switzerland better than Spain? Or do I have to bring out how Japan lost vs Uzbekistan at home and away? Or against Jordan?
They play nice attacking football, but are missing defensive players. I would say their rank 30 in the FIFA rankings is well deserved.

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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #37 on: June 5, 2013, 10:20:12 PM »
Eh one off game doesn't really decide who is the best team. Are Switzerland better than Spain? Or do I have to bring out how Japan lost vs Uzbekistan at home and away? Or against Jordan?
They play nice attacking football, but are missing defensive players. I would say their rank 30 in the FIFA rankings is well deserved.

Maybe so but they comfortably got out of their group (and were significantly better than Denmark) and if they were able to stick in the ball from 6 yards they would have eased into the quarter finals. Yes we're talking about individual games but they've only got better since the last World Cup, Denmark have only gotten worse.

I'd say they deserve to be a few places higher on the FIFA World Rankings, but England are 7th so that sums up how inaccurate it is.
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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #38 on: June 6, 2013, 01:05:52 AM »
if they had a proper goalscorer i would've fancied them to make quarters at least.

kagawa,kiyokate and honda behind someone who knows how to score looks good.

endo behind them and then the two wingbacks are playing in high quality leagues.

morimoto never really did kick on did he?

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Re: Japan and South Korea
« Reply #39 on: June 6, 2013, 08:50:04 AM »
if they had a proper goalscorer i would've fancied them to make quarters at least.

kagawa,kiyokate and honda behind someone who knows how to score looks good.

endo behind them and then the two wingbacks are playing in high quality leagues.

morimoto never really did kick on did he?
its strange that japan seems to have very decent midfielders and defenders but have problems with strikers.Even nagai who impressed during the olympics seems to be struggling in Belgium too.