Topic: Player focus: Jordan Hendersons first season

[p27051]

I feel that Jordan will turn out to be a very good central midfielder for us and might go on to become the backbone of the team for years to come. He has all the attributes to make him successful at our club. He is young, talented, hard working and most of all has experience of playing in the PL for a good 2-3 seasons now. In his time at our club he has shown glimpses of his talent in a couple of matches when played in the middle of the park, i still remember the through balls he put in through while playing against City and Chelsea in the cups. He just needs to start doing it consistently. Have high hopes for him.

[DrTobiasFunke]

Just to put those tackling stats into context, from the official site -

Henderson 84%
played 36
tackles won 41
tackles lost 8
tackles won per game 1.14

Enrique 81%
played 35
tackles won 56
tackles lost 13
tackles won per game 1.6

Spearing 80%
played 16
tackles won 36
tackles lost 9
tackles won per game 2.25

Lucas 77%
played 12
tackles won 52
tackles lost 16
tackles won per game 4.33

Johnson 76%
played 22
tackles won 31
tackles lost 10
tackles won per game 1.41


I think this shows that Spearing, despite his flaws, is still better at winning the ball back than Henderson. Kenny's reasoning in replacing Lucas with Spearing was sound but in reality we need a better back-up in that position.

It's also worth noting that the tackles per game stat may be a bit unfair on Henderson as he only played for a full 90 minutes in 20 of those 36 games.

Good OP by the way, cheers.

[MassDriver]

I think this shows that Spearing, despite his flaws, is still better at winning the ball back than Henderson. Kenny's reasoning in replacing Lucas with Spearing was sound but in reality we need a better back-up in that position.

It's also worth noting that the tackles per game stat may be a bit unfair on Henderson as he only played for a full 90 minutes in 20 of those 36 games.

Not really. Spearing is wank , cannot tackle(those stats are bollocks) , cannot pass(his passing stats are bollocks as well) and is a liability as a fourth choice central midfielder. Need to get rid asap.

On topic , those stats show that Hendo is not completely useless when it comes to tackling as a few people believed. But I do think he chooses to go for only those tackles in which he is favourite to win.  I recall reading stats about Meireles which showed that he was quite a successful tackler. What the stats did not show was that he , like Henderson , chose to go for it when he was favourite to win.

Doesn't make Hendo a bad player , just not suited to the 'Lucas role' as many want to believe here. I see him more of an all round central midfielder with a decent engine and the occasional assist and goal.

[DrTobiasFunke]

Not really. Spearing is wank , cannot tackle(those stats are bollocks) , cannot pass(his passing stats are bollocks as well) and is a liability as a fourth choice central midfielder. Need to get rid asap.

On topic , those stats show that Hendo is not completely useless when it comes to tackling as a few people believed. But I do think he chooses to go for only those tackles in which he is favourite to win.  I recall reading stats about Meireles which showed that he was quite a successful tackler. What the stats did not show was that he , like Henderson , chose to go for it when he was favourite to win.

Doesn't make Hendo a bad player , just not suited to the 'Lucas role' as many want to believe here. I see him more of an all round central midfielder with a decent engine and the occasional assist and goal.

I agree. My point was that neither are good enough at Lucas' role. A Henderson - Lucas partnership in the middle looks like the way forward.

[Fluke]

Have to say that Henderson didn't look too bad next to Jonjo either.  They were both quite good at recycling the ball and finding a man in space ahead of them.

Granted, their defensive duties probably weren't tested as much as you'd expect from Chelsea, and they'd face very different tests from the likes of Stoke or Arsenal.  But it could be an interesting option in the future, potentially when facing some of the bus parking teams.

[jo07]

I'm excited to see how he's going to improve over the summer going into next season. He lacks confidence in some ways and is still so young.

[Wilmo]

Lucas 77%
played 12
tackles won 52
tackles lost 16
tackles won per game 4.33

Jesus Christ.

[shelovesyou]

Looks interesting this and will pop back later, nice one.

[peelyon]

I would love to see Henderson and Lucas in our central mid next season.  Have Gerrard moved to the right or pushed further up the pitch.  I think alongside Lucas he would have a lot more free rein and would have more confidence in going forward himself.

Personally I think he will turn out to be a class player.  (Remember all the Luca haters).  Hes young, give him time and he will come good!

[DanA]

Henderson figures are an unfair comparison in that he played most of his games on the right. That means he's not going to get the same amount of opportunities to tackle as Spearing who has played every single game as a DM. I suspect they are far more similar than that table shows.

[iresh]

Excellent original post.

I think the point with Henderson is that he's an intelligent player who needs intelligent players around him. It's why I'm so convinced he will work very well alongside Lucas. Fast thinking players work well together (compare Lucas->Maxi->Suarez) and they are the ones who create gaps to open up play, but with a few exceptions they can't do it on their own. It's a team game after all.

I'm really looking forward to next season and just hope that Lucas will return as strong as ever. I think he's the foundation that Henderson needs for his game.

Hope we get Jovetic of fiorentina still remember him tearing us a new one with smart movement and play. Really think a front line of henderson, lucas, jovetic and and suarez would do quite well

[sowellred]

I hope to see Lucas-Henderson  match the likes of Mascherano-Xabi (08/09 season).

Saw the same earlier in the season;

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=286211.msg9834979#msg9834979




Great opening post btw

[Vulmea]

Enjoyed the OP - it raises lots of questions though mainly in terms of comparing Jordan with other players - in terms of his age , other teams etc. The forward passing stat is intersting - there used to be one for key passes - is that still collected?

[Not A Scouser]

Good technical player with a great engine who plays better in the centre than on the wing.  Doesn't score goals or get assists.  Tackles relatively well.  Keeps the ball and looks to move it forward.  Everybody below the first team plays 4231.

I simply don't understand how anyone could not think that the Lucas/DM/Volante position isn't ideal for him.

He's about the right age that he'll be in his prime as Lucas leaves his.  He's got perhaps the best player in the world at that position to learn from. 

[Vulmea]

Good technical player with a great engine who plays better in the centre than on the wing.  Doesn't score goals or get assists.  Tackles relatively well.  Keeps the ball and looks to move it forward.  Everybody below the first team plays 4231.

I simply don't understand how anyone could not think that the Lucas/DM/Volante position isn't ideal for him.

He's about the right age that he'll be in his prime as Lucas leaves his.  He's got perhaps the best player in the world at that position to learn from. 

does he have the game to play alongside him though?

[Not A Scouser]

does he have the game to play alongside him though?

There is a great post somewhere on Brazilian tactics specifically as to the Lucas position.  Basically, up until this year Lucas had always played in a deep 2, the volante position.  As explained the job of those players is to sit in front of the centre backs allowing the full backs to get forward and still have a strong defensive backbone.  On attack their job is to move the ball efficiently to the more advanced players.  Usually there is one of these two players who is more attacking than the other, something like the Agger to Skrtel in our central defence.  I think the only real competition for such a spot to Henderson within the club is Spearing.  Gerrard likes to wander, as does Adam and Shelvey.  henderson does better in the middle, and at the moment better in a more defined role.  This year Kenny has almost not used such a formation, going with more of a 442 and allowing all the midfielders the choice to go forward or stay back as they see fit.

So I think henderson is the

[Strictlydown19]

Congratulations on your Henderson assessment.

This is a very well written piece. It is analytical, easy on the eye and very conveniently absorbed. The fact remains, however, that the only reason Jordan Henderson ever has for making the 'hairs on my neck stand up' is when he is actually placed in possession of the ball. There is just something vulnerable about this lad, beyond his obvious youth, that scares the life out of me. I just don't see where he fits. He lacks the dynamism and buccaneering spirit of a young Gerrard and his general vision is very poor. Okay, Gerrard was special, exceptional almost, so it may be wrong to compare but I do hope Henderson isn't too badly exposed as a result of being called up by Hodgson at this late point in time. This average England squad is not the place for Henderson to flower. Maybe, just maybe, Rodgers will coax something out of the boy. I hope so, for his sense of well-being and for the future of LFC.

[gregorio]

He's also got backbone, came into his own when we were down to 10 men & up against it at Ewood Park

[mbroon]

There is a great post somewhere on Brazilian tactics specifically as to the Lucas position. Basically, up until this year Lucas had always played in a deep 2, the volante position.  As explained the job of those players is to sit in front of the centre backs allowing the full backs to get forward and still have a strong defensive backbone.  On attack their job is to move the ball efficiently to the more advanced players.  Usually there is one of these two players who is more attacking than the other, something like the Agger to Skrtel in our central defence.  I think the only real competition for such a spot to Henderson within the club is Spearing.  Gerrard likes to wander, as does Adam and Shelvey.  henderson does better in the middle, and at the moment better in a more defined role.  This year Kenny has almost not used such a formation, going with more of a 442 and allowing all the midfielders the choice to go forward or stay back as they see fit.

So I think henderson is the

I'm guessing you mean this one: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=278619.msg9118024#msg9118024