Author Topic: Punk - 35 years on (Punk Brittania BBC4) (Read 2472 times)

Filler. · « **on:** May 29, 2012, 10:20:06 PM »

I think it's really a Jubilee tie in and an excuse to write or show something interesting on the telly-welly, rather than it being a 35 year celebration. I think it is anyway.

So tomorrow night there's a documentary on John Cooper Clarke on BBC4 at 10pm (incl Bill Bailey and Stewart Lee commenting)- I think that's a must watch, with some more Cooper Clarke coming on after - two poems on the Old Grey Whistle Test + more. The following night (same time/channel), there's a doc on the 1977 Jubilee, which I imagine will include footage of a young Richard Branson dressed as a barnacle, and then there's Punk Britannia on Friday night (documentary - first of 3), followed by Top Of The Pops 1977, and then a documentary on the Adverts.

Anything else on similar?.. articles / programmes etc?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lbauu27ZIUs?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/lbauu27ZIUs?version=3&amp;hl=en_US</a>

Veinticinco de Mayo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 29, 2012, 10:27:27 PM »

Cheers Rob, TiVO now set.

Filler. · « **Reply #2 on:** May 29, 2012, 10:37:33 PM »

Pleasure

The Buzzcocks clip above came from the same TV compilation as this brilliant Clash footage (can't be beaten from the Clash really) - was it from Night Network? Theres a great Siouxsie clip too, and has, as a few will remember/know... Mick Hucknell in the audience - two rows back from the front.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XxG5jweAraU?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/XxG5jweAraU?version=3&amp;hl=en_US</a>

dave 5516 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2012, 12:32:38 PM »

Thanks for the head's up mate.

This is the best tune The Buzzcocks did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoYiQ8Qsozk

And this is the best tune The Clash did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gchjWcTOVyM

Give this a look,it was an interesting time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5yoj9m-N1M&feature=related

The two track's above,

obviously in my humble opinion that is.

How could I have forgotten this,the very first punk rock single.The Damned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfyiaGIR6VA&feature=related

Liverpool's finest Big In Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoNatnslwrs&feature=related

Anyone into the music scene at the time will tell how important BIJ were in later year's,very influential.I remember watching the last gig they did at Erics.great band.

Filler. · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2012, 08:05:15 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cu4fiRFhC-4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Cu4fiRFhC-4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US</a>

Red Ol · « **Reply #5 on:** May 30, 2012, 11:26:31 PM »

Love John Cooper Clarke. I can just about still recite all of 'I married a monster from outset space,
My first ever gig was Buzzcocks, but this was 78 and I was only 13 and the whole punk thing had just about runs its course by then. Also saw Adam and The Ants same year, they we still a bit raw then. Saw Buzzcocks again a year later when they were supported by Joy Division.
Just watching the old grey whistle test on bbc four now. Good memories.

Pistolero · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2012, 09:21:55 AM »

Quote from: dave 5516 on May 30, 2012, 12:32:38 PM

Thanks for the head's up mate.

This is the best tune The Buzzcocks did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoYiQ8Qsozk

And this is the best tune The Clash did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gchjWcTOVyM

nah......let me correct that for you

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5F7pS9lARK4&hl=en_US&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/5F7pS9lARK4&hl=en_US&fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/KHtTkKNAbWQ&hl=en_US&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/KHtTkKNAbWQ&hl=en_US&fs=1</a>

Haemogoblin · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2012, 11:38:03 AM »

Totally missed that John Cooper Clarke doc - ta for the thread, just popped it on off bbc iplayer. Great stuff. Available on there till early Monday 11th June if anyone else who missed it's arsed.

Looking forward to this Punk Britannia thing tomorrow, bbc4 is just so boss it's daft. Hope Martin Hannett & the whole northern punk + post-punk scene in general gets a good look at there as well, incredible explosion of art that was. Obviously the Pistols' Lesser Free Trade Hall gig'll be covered again when they shift focus from the south.

Pistolero · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2012, 01:23:56 PM »

Lydon's music selection on 6 Music's Playlist tonight....5 parter with different guests each week (Siouxsie Sioux, Pattie Smith etc)...cant see any of them being as good as Malcolm McClarens fantastic musical odyssey a few years back ...but still well worth a listen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jcrs5

jooneyisdagod · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2012, 01:41:39 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YBjDIJE38t8?version=3&amp;" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/YBjDIJE38t8?version=3&amp;</a>

This might be from the same gig as the earlier video Filler posted. Also this is my nomination for best tune by the Clash.

jooneyisdagod · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2012, 01:44:48 PM »

Perhaps not strictly punk but has enough punk elements about it IMO,

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/X8OZ9bUPeYY?version=3&amp;" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/X8OZ9bUPeYY?version=3&amp;</a>

FlashingBlade · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2012, 01:47:27 PM »

Quote from: Filler. on May 29, 2012, 10:37:33 PM

Pleasure

The Buzzcocks clip above came from the same TV compilation as this brilliant Clash footage (can't be beaten from the Clash really) - was it from Night Network? Theres a great Siouxsie clip too, and has, as a few will remember/know... Mick Hucknell in the audience - two rows back from the front.

Filler , it was from (the now legendary? Granada TV's So it Goes with Tony Wilson) ..It used to be on a sunday night around 10:30/11 late 1977...recall watching the Clash one on a portable B&W TV pogoin on my bed!

Im not into Nostalgia, but looking forward to a Doc' that will finally place the 'New Wave' explosion as the 'Big Bang' of modern British culture that in some ways has had a longer and profound impact for British life than the 'swinging sixities'...all will be explained in my memoir
" What did you do in the punk wars daddy?..."

jooneyisdagod · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2012, 01:59:03 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-GueNOKolo?version=3&amp;" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-GueNOKolo?version=3&amp;</a>

Some say this was the first punk single ever. Not quite sure myself since I wasn't around back then ! Regardless punk all the way from Australia.

FlashingBlade · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2012, 02:15:48 PM »

Fuckin ace song that , not first (' New Rose' The Damned could take that title)...but deffo up there with the first batch of punk singles....check out 'Know your Product' by them

LukeD · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2012, 02:19:02 PM »

Is this strictly for UK bands?

EDIT: Just seen The Saints' video up there and noted they're from Oz so I'm going to take a punt - also, it's a bit later than you guys are talking about so let me know and I'll take this down if I'm derailing the tread...

For me, this is the best song Black Flag ever recorded (and I appreciate that there are many amazing songs in their catalogue so I'm sure there are loads who will disagree). It's also their best album in my eyes, I love it. It's an easy, and probably cliched, thing to say but Ginn's influences really shine in his guitar work on the album, more than just brutal chord progressions; he used to make the rest of the band learn the songs in a sort of swing tempo before they slowly sped them up over time, all the time focusing on the feel that he wanted from the earlier, slower run throughs.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ij2F6tF3zQY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ij2F6tF3zQY</a>

jooneyisdagod · « **Reply #15 on:** May 31, 2012, 02:25:31 PM »

Yeah, heard Know your product as well !

Another one from that scene,

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/MkYyG1GOETc?version=3&amp;" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/MkYyG1GOETc?version=3&amp;</a>

Filler. · « **Reply #16 on:** May 31, 2012, 11:24:05 PM »

Quote from: jooneyisdagod on May 31, 2012, 01:59:03 PM

Some say this was the first punk single ever.

And they'd be wrong. The Deviants (UK) and the Fugs (US) come well before all this... both mid 60's.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oAb1-glPEpM?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/oAb1-glPEpM?version=3&amp;hl=en_US</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hW9cCWm53H4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/hW9cCWm53H4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US</a>

... that's not to say that that Saints stuff is damn good. And of course, there was the Stooges - who to me, were fucking IT.

FlashingBlade... cheers for that. Rings massive bells. As does watching b&w telly

WTF? · « **Reply #17 on:** June 1, 2012, 12:45:16 AM »

Quote from: FlashingBlade on May 31, 2012, 02:15:48 PM

Fuckin ace song that , not first (' New Rose' The Damned could take that title)...but deffo up there with the first batch of punk singles....check out 'Know your Product' by them

Uh-oh.

Agree New Rose was the first UK punk single, but the first ever punk single has got to be Blitzkrieg Bop by the Ramones.

KERRYKOP · « **Reply #18 on:** June 1, 2012, 12:50:22 AM »

Filler you make good threads, lots of stuff on here Iv never heard.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nTO7nXw4StY&feature=related" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/nTO7nXw4StY&feature=related</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/wAtUw6lxcis" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/wAtUw6lxcis</a>

Mad Max · « **Reply #19 on:** June 1, 2012, 10:17:40 AM »

I will be watching this tonight.

Barney_Rubble · « **Reply #20 on:** June 1, 2012, 12:58:33 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3tz-t2NtDeU?fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/3tz-t2NtDeU?fs=1</a>

Red Ol · « **Reply #21 on:** June 1, 2012, 01:24:50 PM »

Quote from: WTF? on June 1, 2012, 12:45:16 AM

Uh-oh.

Agree New Rose was the first UK punk single, but the first ever punk single has got to be Blitzkrieg Bop by the Ramones.

Interesting
Of course it depends on the definition of punk and if it’s British or American
New Rose definitely the first single by a British punk band.
Ramones were an inspiration to the British punk scene (as cited by the Clash and various others) but then they were part of the New York scene which was earlier still.
People like Johnny Thunder & the Heartbreakers (see above). Weren’t the New York Dolls also a ‘punk’ band – Probably?
You could also go back to Iggy and the Stooges – Raw Power (1973) is a great punk album. I’d even go back as far the MC5 and Kick Out The Jams
Any track that’s as raw as that and opens with the line “Kick out the Jams Motherfucker!” is alright with me

IMO the big difference between Punk in American and Britain was that British punk was about so much more than the music

dave 5516 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 1, 2012, 01:35:38 PM »

Quote from: Red Ol on June 1, 2012, 01:24:50 PM

Interesting
Of course it depends on the definition of punk and if it’s British or American
New Rose definitely the first single by a British punk band.
Ramones were an inspiration to the British punk scene (as cited by the Clash and various others) but then they were part of the New York scene which was earlier still.
People like Johnny Thunder & the Heartbreakers (see above). Weren’t the New York Dolls also a ‘punk’ band – Probably?
You could also go back to Iggy and the Stooges – Raw Power (1973) is a great punk album. I’d even go back as far the MC5 and Kick Out The Jams
Any track that’s as raw as that and opens with the line “Kick out the Jams Motherfucker!” is alright with me

IMO the big difference between Punk in American and Britain was that British punk was about so much more than the music

I was just going to post this.I'd say you've got it right with regard's to the beginnings of punk,I'd also include The Velvet Underground with all of the above.,as an influence.

WTF? · « **Reply #23 on:** June 1, 2012, 03:33:43 PM »

Quote from: Red Ol on June 1, 2012, 01:24:50 PM

Interesting
Of course it depends on the definition of punk and if it’s British or American
New Rose definitely the first single by a British punk band.
Ramones were an inspiration to the British punk scene (as cited by the Clash and various others) but then they were part of the New York scene which was earlier still.
People like Johnny Thunder & the Heartbreakers (see above). Weren’t the New York Dolls also a ‘punk’ band – Probably?
You could also go back to Iggy and the Stooges – Raw Power (1973) is a great punk album. I’d even go back as far the MC5 and Kick Out The Jams
Any track that’s as raw as that and opens with the line “Kick out the Jams Motherfucker!” is alright with me

IMO the big difference between Punk in American and Britain was that British punk was about so much more than the music

I actually agree with everything you've said. True, British punk was more than the music, and for the most part was born as a reaction to the hopeless situation mid 70's Britain found itself in. Social commentary and politics were the order of the day for many of the bands, although ironically, the UK punk band responsible for the first single, the Damned, pretty much stayed clear of politics. The US scene, initially at least, was pretty much a politics free zone.

Defining who was punk, or even where it all started is pretty hard to nail down. I'd say the Dolls were probably more of a glam band than punk, admittedly with a lot more attitude than your average contemporary of the day, but a band that were hugely influential on both the UK and US scene nonetheless.

Obviously the usual suspects are the Stooges and MC5. Richard Hell certainly had the image and the attitude very early on, and I've even heard various claims that John Lennon and Elvis Presley were punks before punk was "invented".

Barney_Rubble · « **Reply #24 on:** June 1, 2012, 06:31:08 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/v6Ytde6tmkQ?fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/v6Ytde6tmkQ?fs=1</a>

FlashingBlade · « **Reply #25 on:** June 1, 2012, 07:51:57 PM »

As for the first punk single, I was refering to the UK ( Punk Britania the OP?) however I agree Blitzkrieg Bop was proabably the first punk single of the late Seventies 'New wave' movement , however there had been plenty of groups/singles before then that had the punk ethos and were instrumental in influencing the sound of that late seventies explosion...NYD/Pop/MC5 etc...even our own Dr.Feelgood.

On the issue of Blitkkreig Bop the single never had the imact that the Ramones LP did and for most their first Lp was Punks call to arms ...however the Damneds realease was a kick start to many in the UK..however it being first was merely down to business....the real critical single* release of Punk was Sprial Scratch....the one that inspired so many that records could be made outside London.

Its impossible to convey the imact of Punk in 76/77 if your not of a certain age...but to comapare and contrast , check out the TOTP 1977 repeat often shown on BBC3 and then watch that Clash footage above...different worlds occupying the same time... Ive said many times on this forum, for me as a 16 year old ( apart from football) UK was a boring Black and White Sunday afternooon with the shops closed...and Punk blew it all up with colour and sound...and from that it influenced design, life style, politics etc.

*Ok, you pedantic punks...it was an EP!

Filler. · « **Reply #26 on:** June 1, 2012, 08:40:24 PM »

Death. From Detroit - a tune from 1974 (I orginally wrote 1975, went to modify it and deleted the bloody thing)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OwehxN2ipCU?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/OwehxN2ipCU?version=3&amp;hl=en_US</a>

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/arts/music/15rubi.html?_r=1

Danny Boys Dad · « **Reply #27 on:** June 1, 2012, 09:19:52 PM »

Just read this thread so taping that Punk Britannia to watch later

Only 11 in 1976, probably 77 or 78 before I got into it properly.

Went to see John Cooper Clarke at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester, couldn't understand a word

Saw Adam and the Ants, The Damned, The Undertones a few times, The Exploited, few others I think but can't remember

Used to love it all, still do

The Buzzcocks were incredible

Filler. · « **Reply #28 on:** June 1, 2012, 10:11:05 PM »

Quote from: Danny Boys Dad on June 1, 2012, 09:19:52 PM

Just read this thread so taping that Punk Britannia to watch later

Well worth it. That was a really good hour of telly. Learnt a lot from it - never knew for instance that New Rose was filmed at The Hope and Anchor, a pub I sort of lived in for a while - ish. Lived a walk away from it, then best mates got a flat across the road. I haven't listened to the Damned for a good while - seen them live many a time - met the Captain - it's a shame their head roady wasn't interviewed who's toured with them fro well.. 35 years, and looks it! Ha. Gonna bash them out tomorrow. But that was a quality programme - and two parts to come. Nice.

KERRYKOP · « **Reply #29 on:** June 1, 2012, 11:27:31 PM »

Good old show, nice to see them start it from Pub Rock, funny as well they traced the origins of punk to a band called "Egg's Over Easy", I know the constraints of the show couldn't filter in MC5, The Stooges etc, but it tickled me a bit.

Ian Dury was The Godfather really, complete Rock N Roll anti hero and Wilko Johnson as well, their piercing stares certainly led they way for Lydon.

Next week should be good, got to laugh every time Steve Jones says "what a Fucker, what a rotter"

Pistolero · « **Reply #30 on:** June 1, 2012, 11:41:31 PM »

Excellent that....a neat summation of the proto-punk scene...thought they may have focussed on Drury a bit more?...but great to see Nick Lowe being acknowledged as the Zelig of the British music industry (seen him twice this year and hes still 'kin brilliant).....and fuck me...how good does New Rose still sound??......good times

FlashingBlade · « **Reply #31 on:** June 1, 2012, 11:55:00 PM »

Indeed! New Rose got me moving ...btw watched Paul Morley just now on the Review Show BBC2 talking about the meekness and conservitism of current society and popular culture, in relation to the Jubilee in 77 and now and the frustraion that its the people with spark and edge that makes this country yet anyone who doesn't conform to the timidity of celebrating the Jubilee/Olympics is ridiculed and sidelined as a killjoy...I totally agreed with him and enjoyed his spikeyness, you dont see enough of nowadays.....we need people like Lydon and Strummer now more than ever................where are they?

btw in summer of 77 my mum organised a street party for the Jubilee and asked to use my record player for music , I agreed on one condition....ok it may have been cliched , but I enjoyed it...though as the party started Im not sure what the parents and kids made of the Pistols blaring out 'God Save the Queen!'

bahrainexpat · « **Reply #32 on:** June 2, 2012, 06:51:24 AM »

Punk forerunner?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/bZNkLyQSZVg" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/bZNkLyQSZVg</a>

Alan_X · « **Reply #33 on:** June 2, 2012, 08:16:23 AM »

First punk gig I went to was the White Riot Tour in St Albans - 21st may 1977. Fantastic night with the Clash, Slits, Buzzcocks and Subway Sect. I was pissed off that the Jam had pulled out but brilliant anyway.

It was before all the spitting bollocks and mohican shite. Straight trousers and a short haircut were enough.

Thought the documentary was excellent as well. I remember seeing bands like Brinsley Schwarz and Ducks Deluxe at the Cherry Tree Pub, where I live. I can't remember if Kllburn and the High Roads ever played there but the pub rock scene was great for live music.

Filler. · « **Reply #34 on:** June 2, 2012, 09:25:40 AM »

Quote from: Alan_X on June 2, 2012, 08:16:23 AM

First punk gig I went to was the White Riot Tour in St Albans - 21st may 1977. Fantastic night with the Clash, Slits, Buzzcocks and Subway Sect. I was pissed off that the Jam had pulled out but brilliant anyway.

Green with envy.

Give this a listen... quality from start to finish, plus a great take on the burgeoning punk thing from Peel midway.

John Peel: 'Off you go and play boys...'
Sensible: 'Alright Dad...'

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ux3GAV80RdQ?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ux3GAV80RdQ?version=3&amp;hl=en_US</a>

KERRYKOP · « **Reply #35 on:** June 2, 2012, 11:03:51 AM »

Quote from: bahrainexpat on June 2, 2012, 06:51:24 AM

Punk forerunner?

There are similarities in that it is hard faced paced Rock, but punk was the complete antistasis of Zeppelin. Wilko Johnson even said last night in a clip "Rock N Roll isnt about the Hobbit"

I love Zeppelin by the way

FlashingBlade · « **Reply #36 on:** June 2, 2012, 12:00:03 PM »

Can we keep this thread on the UK punk scene of the period?....if were gonna start talking about punks influences...then lets say Robert Johnson and leave it at that.

Last nights doc superbly set the scene how Pub Rock set the musical enviroment for groups to play ( in London!) and the staid and bland music scene of the time inspired a new generation to say we want our own music....timing in life is everything...too young or just too old and it wasnt yours....as Richard Strange said, he was gutted he was just too old to be part of it...by two years....of course there where older people involved.

KERRYKOP · « **Reply #37 on:** June 2, 2012, 12:04:34 PM »

Quote from: FlashingBlade on June 1, 2012, 11:55:00 PM

btw watched Paul Morley just now on the Review Show BBC2 talking about the meekness and conservitism of current society and popular culture

A journalist chastising the youth of today, where have I heard that before?............

FlashingBlade · « **Reply #38 on:** June 2, 2012, 12:09:57 PM »

Quote from: Filler. on June 2, 2012, 09:25:40 AM

Green with envy.

Give this a listen... quality from start to finish, plus a great take on the burgeoning punk thing from Peel midway.

John Peel: 'Off you go and play boys...'
Sensible: 'Alright Dad...'

I think that show 'may' have been my 'Road to Damascus Moment' up to then I was unsure but curious about it all and my only real understanding was through the NME....I'd heard some music on on JP ..but it was hearing The Damneds that done it for me...funny enough I was never a fan of theirs...but I think I literally cut my hair there and then and got my mum to order some straight jeans ( workmens!) from Littlewoods catalogue ....you just couldn't by the clothes in shops...well not in Skem anyway!

Pistolero · « **Reply #39 on:** June 2, 2012, 12:50:30 PM »

Quote from: FlashingBlade on June 2, 2012, 12:00:03 PM

....timing in life is everything...too young or just too old and it wasnt yours....as Richard Strange said, he was gutted he was just too old to be part of it...by two years....of course there where older people involved.

I thought that was one of the most telling quotes in the programme....Richard Strange was himself fairly...erm..out there.....but the moment he saw the Pistols it hit him like a lightning bolt that it was (in his words) all over for us......that's how polarising the age difference was.....although, obviously no-one told Charlie Harper