Topic: How much notice should FSG pay to fans' wishes when employing a new manager?

[mjjason]

Supporters should have no say into who the manager should be.  At least not directly.  If you are not happy then money talks.  If the club listens to supporters on who to hire should they listen to supporters on who to fire?

Should the manager listen to supporters on who to sign, who to play, and who to let go?

Where does it stop?

I know people feel that this is our club but, quite frankly, no it is not.  We are supporters of a club that someone else owns.  Until we as supporters own the club, which is what I has hoping shareLFC could achieve and was signed up and ready to help, we really have no direct say.

The only thing we could realistically do is stop paying for things otherwise we have to accept the decisions of the club as a whole (at least from the sporting side of things)

[Clayton Bigsby]

I'd rather the owners didn't take the slightest bit of notice who the fans want to be honest.

[The Kings Army]

None whatsoever.

We support the club and thats where it ends. we don't own it.

Whether they make the right or wrong decision, it's their decision.

Don't be fooled into thinking that Kenny returning to us was due to the fans. I'll bet that decision was made carefully and ticked all the right boxes in the end.

He was available.
had a good record as a manager previously
loves the club
fans and players love him.

made sense from a business point of view to appoint him as caretaker manager to boost morale, which is what we needed more than anything at that time.

[Gnurglan]

None whatsoever.

We support the club and thats where it ends. we don't own it.

Whether they make the right or wrong decision, it's their decision.

Don't be fooled into thinking that Kenny returning to us was due to the fans. I'll bet that decision was made carefully and ticked all the right boxes in the end.

He was available.
had a good record as a manager previously
loves the club
fans and players love him.

made sense from a business point of view to appoint him as caretaker manager to boost morale, which is what we needed more than anything at that time.

Disagree. I don't think they knew what they were doing. The hiring of Comolli was strange from the start. Kenny was a quick solution, he did a fine job and they were more or less forced to give him the job. After a season, he's gone and so is Comolli. Now they are going for a new set of DoFs. There may be a plan in there, but you could equally well say that they are searching all over the place. The supposed list of a dozen canidates for the manager job shows they are open for lots of things. Meaning they don't know what kind of manager we want. Even though that should be pretty clear. One of the fundamental things. Why? Because all teams should play 4-2-3-1. We're building a certain brand of football. Which immediately should limit the number of candidates. And with us going heavily for a top four spot, that should narrow it down even further.

[wheresnemeth]

I don't think that fans or players must have a say in who the manager should be but then I also think that those choosing the manager should be knowledgeable enough to make the right decision.

[Danny_]

In this case, they should definitely listen to them as we are suggesting bringing Rafa back.  But, it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

[rob1408]

In this case, they should definitely listen to them as we are suggesting bringing Rafa back.  But, it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

No they shouldn't.  They'll live and die by their decisions, but they shouldn't listen to us as far as appointments go.

[Les Willis]

My personal opinion is that we the fans should really have fuck all say in who is appointed and should support 100% whoever is. Unless you've yet bought a shitload of shares in FSG. Then you can have a say.

[Melbred]

We the supporters should have absolutely no say in who's manager. FSG need to back their own vision and plans, and put in the man who they honestly think is best for the club.

Owners would come across as weak if they were to listen to the supporters.

[something awful]

People will though. I'm 50/50 at the moment. Waiting to see if they do appoint Martinez and if so I may well jib it off this season.

Serious question, I'm not a match goer and I'm definitely not trying to bait you or anything.

If they appointed Martinez, you didn't renew your ticket and he went on to be successful, wouldn't you regret it?

[mercury]

FSG have not shown that they have any clue since they took over.  Not the football side of things.

The quick decisive decisions do NOT have any principles as a reference or follow up plans or even immediate remedial action.  They sacked Hodgson only when the table would not hold.  They gave Kenny a contract, "yielding to popular pressure' rather than adhering to their vision (if they had / have one).  They sacked a manager after 1 full season.  It's not so bad except that now we are going into this window without a DoF, whom they should have enough time to find one by now, and without a manager, whom they are rumored t have a shortlist of 12 as recent as a week ago.  Well, even in the corporate head hunting world, the list should have been whittled down to at best half of that number by now, as they must have made up their mind on the sacking quite some time ago. 

I see real weakness, despite the tough stance. And incompetence.  Very disappointing. 

A better question would be: Do they know what they are doing or what they want?  I don't think they themselves know whether they should listen to the fans or not.

I hold my breathe for them to turn the table.  They really must, for the good of the Club.

[Jellies]

My personal opinion is that we the fans should really have fuck all say in who is appointed and should support 100% whoever is. Unless you've yet bought a shitload of shares in FSG. Then you can have a say.

So if you have money, go ahead and choose our manager, but if you're just a poor working class fan, please spend £800 on your season ticket sit down and shut up.

I'll support our next manager whoever it is, but is it really that noble and 'TLW'-ish to say "Let's just let those wealthy yanks choose who'll lead us into the battle, we know fuck all ourselves?". I acknowledge that they have the 'experts' and the last word, but does it say anything noble about us that we just leave the decision to one wealthy man who has absolutely no connection to the club just 2 years ago? A lot of martyrs in here but not many reasons to be.

[Danny_]

My personal opinion is that we the fans should really have fuck all say in who is appointed and should support 100% whoever is. Unless you've yet bought a shitload of shares in FSG. Then you can have a say.

Yeah, we only buy the tickets, buy the LFC merchandise etc.  The club would be just fine without us.  Get a grip!

[PaLee]

IMO last time they listened to the fans. Now, they won't listen to popular choice again. Henry will want his own man I guess.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

It's not about money. It's about getting footballing expertise on board, having a plan and sticking to it. To do that you need to know your own mind and not follow the latest Kneejerk reaction of the fans.

[Suspect Package.]

None whatsoever.

[Redcap]

Close to zero.

I've been as vocal as anyone about my doubts about my Martinez and my wishes for Rafa to come back.

But frankly FSG have invested in the club because they feel that they know a way to run a club successfully (meaning including the winning of trophies and the qualification for CL). If we reach the point where they feel like they have so little faith in their own methods of running the club that they would simply listen to the wishes of fans, then that is the moment they should look for new investors and pull out.

For me it's the same logic as a manager sticking by his convictions in how a team should be run, but at a more macro level.

This isn't to say I think they shouldn't consider Rafa, or other candidates fans have suggested. But they shouldn't do it because of the fans' wishes at this point. They have to have enough courage in their convictions to pick the man they feel is best for the job.

Whether the fans are happy with their decision, to begin with, is beside the point. That goes for Martinez, and really it even goes for if they decided to bring Hodgson back. Of course it would be monumentally stupid if they did bring him back and would betray an utterly horrifying naivete about football (Hodgson of course, not Martinez), but it would be even more worrying if they relied on the fans for these decisions.

All this is assuming that they do have a blueprint and an intention to make the club a success again. On the other have if all they were interested in was money.. well.. I don't think they would listen to the fans in that case no matter how much noise was made.

[DAVO1]

The club has to listen to the fans,whether they act on their opinion is another matter.

Roberto Martinez looks to be getting the job,but if we were getting the PR thats currently pro RM for someone like Sam Allardyce for example-should they listen to the fans?

Mistakes can be made at every level,to discount fans opinions is insane.

[Trousers]

Right now we have owners who know nothing about the sport dismantling the previous management structure and implementing their own.
Their requirements for a new manager appear to consist mainly of whether they can fit into this new structure rather than their ability to manage.

That is the kind of ridiculous thinking that landed us with Hodgson at the expense of a far more suitable candidate in Manuel Pellegrini.

We just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Managers who've been linked to us and apparently would be interested in becoming manager seem to be being overlooked not on the basis that they could do the job, but on the basis that they won't fit into the system that FSG have seemingly devised.

Is Roberto Martinez a better manager than Kenny Dalglish?
Is Roberto Martinez a better manager than Louis Van Gaal?
Is Roberto Martinez a better manager than Rafael Benitez?
Is Roberto Martinez a better manager than Fabio Capello?

If the answer is no to any one of those questions, why is he so close to landing the job?

[No666]

It's not about money. It's about getting footballing expertise on board, having a plan and sticking to it. To do that you need to know your own mind and not follow the latest Kneejerk reaction of the fans.

Fair enough, Kev. But do they know their own mind? Is there any evidence they have learnt lessons and acquired a 'vision' as well as a financial strategy, that they have now acquired an informed perspective after thoroughly immersing themselves in LFC and its culture, in watching football day in and out, in meeting and listening and reading about the top names in the sport? And if not, who is advising them?
In short, do they have 'a mind' to know? Or does it come down to one-size-fits-all: what proved successful at the Red Sox is a blueprint they are going to apply to Liverpool despite the differences between the sports?

We do not know the quality of the advice they are receiving. If they have yet got that footballing expertise on board. If not, how are they qualified to make decisions? I don't have a knee-jerk reaction in the sense I'm anti whatever manager they pick, or pro any particular popular candidate and I agree that it would foolish for them to appoint simply where popularity lies. But I do have concerns about them and their process.

[Trousers]

It's not about money. It's about getting footballing expertise on board, having a plan and sticking to it. To do that you need to know your own mind and not follow the latest Kneejerk reaction of the fans.

By hiring a manager who is the very definition of flavour of the month?

[cox3100]

Right now we have owners who know nothing about the sport dismantling the previous management structure and implementing their own.
Their requirements for a new manager appear to consist mainly of whether they can fit into this new structure rather than their ability to manage.

That is the kind of ridiculous thinking that landed us with Hodgson at the expense of a far more suitable candidate in Manuel Pellegrini.

We just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Managers who've been linked to us and apparently would be interested in becoming manager seem to be being overlooked not on the basis that they could do the job, but on the basis that they won't fit into the system that FSG have seemingly devised.

Is Roberto martinez a better manager than Kenny Dalglish?
Is Roberto Martinez a better manager than Louis Van Gaal?
Is Roberto Martinez a better manager than Rafael Benitez?
Is Roberto Martinez a better manager than Fabio Capello?

If the answer is no to any one of those questions, why is he so close to landing the job?

FSG wont really understand football so imo they already have a DOF onboard and it is he who is advising FSG on who to hire as manager/coach.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Fair enough, Kev. But do they know their own mind? Is there any evidence they have learnt lessons and acquired a 'vision' as well as a financial strategy, that they have now acquired an informed perspective after thoroughly immersing themselves in LFC and its culture, in watching football day in and out, in meeting and listening and reading about the top names in the sport? And if not, who is advising them?
In short, do they have 'a mind' to know? Or does it come down to one-size-fits-all: what proved successful at the Red Sox is a blueprint they are going to apply to Liverpool despite the differences between the sports?

We do not know the quality of the advice they are receiving. If they have yet got that footballing expertise on board. If not, how are they qualified to make decisions? I don't have a knee-jerk reaction in the sense I'm anti whatever manager they pick, or pro any particular popular candidate and I agree that it would foolish for them to appoint simply where popularity lies. But I do have concerns about them and their process.

I agree that they are all huge concerns.  That they have been in charge for 18 months without getting the necessary football expertise into the upper hierarchy is their key failing in my book.

That does not mean they should ask the fans instead mind.

[geoffstrong]

yeah but which fans should they listen to, we have loads of different views in here and we dont listen to each other, so who are they going to listen to then?

[NonstopKOP]

I think they should listen to fans but does not mean they should act on them wishes. Its always good for them to open all options and consider every available avenue. Its feedback after all but its up to them to select the right option from research and a number of other things. I dont fancy the names linked but that does not mean im right. I just hope we dont add to the list of poor managers and waste more money until money is a issue to keep spending. On the other hand we could be set for the future. Fans and owners dont know thats the tragedy or joy of football. One thing im sure about. If it continues we will keep sliding down the pecking order until managers and players are harder to attract than right now.

[mercury]

I agree that they are all huge concerns.  That they have been in charge for 18 months without getting the necessary football expertise into the upper hierarchy is their key failing in my book.

That does not mean they should ask the fans instead mind.

Absolutely.  It's about the best man for the job.  Hopefully they finally understand why and what they are getting their man.

[Discipline]

FSG wont really understand football so imo they already have a DOF onboard and it is he who is advising FSG on who to hire as manager/coach.

Who?

[Fanxxxxtastic]

I think they should listen to us, because they are starting to come across as not having a clue what they are doing.

[Lazy Gun]

To not listen to the fans when they clearly haven't a clue themselves.  Thats the problem.

To have sacked Kenny, and have no plan for a successor, or even worse a structure for the management of the club, was criminal negligence by FSG.

They are now casting around trying to find define the required roles and the personalities that will fit into what they think they want.  I think it unlikely that the quality of manager we all want will result from that process.  The best managers will want total control of the football element of the club, even Martinez is supposed to be asking for this.

FSG are making the club look stupid and how is that going to attract top players to the team when we look to all the world like a shambles, and without CL too.

We are told to support the Manager whoever is appointed.  Sorry mates, I support LFC.  Not the owners, not the Manager, LFC.   As we have seen in the recent past they are not the same thing.  That doesn't mean I condone the boo-boys.  Support and respect is earned.  Rafa has it,  Kenny has it. Hodge-podge never ever did.  The owners don't (yet) and the new manager / DOF / TM and fucken uncle tom cobbley and all, need to earn it 

[No666]

I agree that they are all huge concerns.  That they have been in charge for 18 months without getting the necessary football expertise into the upper hierarchy is their key failing in my book.

That does not mean they should ask the fans instead mind.

I agree. But somewhere in the black and white of RAWK  there is a nuance where they don't jump to the fans' tune - which, despite revisionist loyalism here was a factor in the sacking of Benitez - yet are seen to be aware of fan sentiment. After all, they have to carry the support with them. I think they planned for Dalglish to move upstairs graciously thus doing their dirty work. Now they've got shit all over their hands while sending out invitations to join their party.

[surfer]

Fair enough, Kev. But do they know their own mind? Is there any evidence they have learnt lessons and acquired a 'vision' as well as a financial strategy, that they have now acquired an informed perspective after thoroughly immersing themselves in LFC and its culture, in watching football day in and out, in meeting and listening and reading about the top names in the sport? And if not, who is advising them?
In short, do they have 'a mind' to know? Or does it come down to one-size-fits-all: what proved successful at the Red Sox is a blueprint they are going to apply to Liverpool despite the differences between the sports?

We do not know the quality of the advice they are receiving. If they have yet got that footballing expertise on board. If not, how are they qualified to make decisions? I don't have a knee-jerk reaction in the sense I'm anti whatever manager they pick, or pro any particular popular candidate and I agree that it would foolish for them to appoint simply where popularity lies. But I do have concerns about them and their process.

Great post, and cuts to the heart of the issue when it comes to how they appoint who they appoint.

When they had to make the call on Comolli, I could understand that in the sense of having to take a recommendation and essentially make a stab in the dark, didn't agree with it then, but understandable  - new to the field, imperfect information and all that. Now though, at this point in time, if they have not improved their knowledge of football both through their own work and by appointing the right football men as execs, then it's their fault. The rest - sacking / appointment of staff, fan interaction, community initiatives - all these things are a result of that.

[Passmaster Molby]

It seems they are choosing to listen to one fan in particular - Ian Ayre.

I just hope they ask themselves this question - do these advisors have the interests of Liverpool Football Club at heart? If the answer is no then they shouldn't be listening to them either.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

The other probloem is that the fan's views are more likely to be in tune with the players in comparison to FSG.

How many of our stars are going to stick around if we hire a manager of insufficient calibre?

[barnseysleftpeg]

Or to cut through the subtext...

Should they listen to fans moaning that Martinez is "not good enough".

No. Can it and get behind him.  (If he gets appointed)

Never a truer word spoken.  Hat off to you sir

[Melbred]

Or to cut through the subtext...

Should they listen to fans moaning that Martinez is "not good enough".

No. Can it and get behind him.  (If he gets appointed)

I think that's all that needs to be said.

[weebroalan]

And which fans would you suggest FSG listen to?

This forum alone illustrates the vast differences in opinion between Liverpool fans.

Fans should have no say in hiring a new manager - to do so would leave to chaos and conflict and we don't need anymore of that.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

No but I'm sure they won't have an option to listen to the sound of sharpening knives if they pick a rookie and it goes wrong

[SmithyTheRed]

They will appoint someone to protect their investment in a way that is best for them.

I don't think they appointed Kenny because of the fans, they appointed him because they were impressed by him, and thought he could achieve what they wanted.

If they do appoint Rafa, it will not be because we want him, but because they want him.

[jah008]

None. FSG have $300 million. You don't. Thread can now be closed.

[Romford_Red]

In answer to the OP: None.