Author Topic: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?  (Read 6393 times)

Offline FinnMacCool

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San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« on: May 22, 2012, 02:26:37 PM »
When FSG/NESV came in for Liverpool, a great deal was made of their success with the Boston Red Sox, and even the names they have given their businesses, namechecking Fenway Park and New England, show that they are keen for their brand to remain associated with the Red Sox and their 21st century success - a success which has since declined, of course.

Maybe we should have paid more attention to Tom Werner's earlier ownership of the San Diego Padres (1990-4) as an indication of what was in store for us. This 2007 article by Geoff Young of the Hardball Times makes for uncomfortable reading for LFC fans in the time that is in it.


Offline FinnMacCool

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 02:27:11 PM »
Here’s a brief summary. Werner took over the Padres when they were on the cusp of respectability, as their fans report, but after a couple of lacklustre seasons his group embarked on a slash-and-burn policy first of selling off the players, and eventually of selling the club itself at a profit. When this infamous "fire sale" began, their experienced manager Joe McIlvaine was replaced with Randy Smith, who at 29 became the youngest manager in Major League Baseball. Baseball expert Geoff Young's take on that appointment is this: "Presumably such a young and inexperienced person would be less reluctant to balk at his boss' orders to cut payroll regardless of the damage it might inflict on the franchise's ability to compete."

Before a month was out, Smith would be following orders to sell off the team's stars. First it was third baseman Gary Sheffield, just as the fans were voting for Sheffield to be part of their 25th Anniversary Dream Team. The following month it was their star hitter Fred McGriff. As a result of these Werner-enforced changes, the Padres' on-pitch performances plummeted and this formerly promising side ended up losing more than 100 games in a season for the first time since 1974.

Werner sold the Padres a year and a half later. Under the new owners, young Randy Smith was able to buy his first players that didn't involve making payroll cuts. He made some astute buys at that time, according to Young, who says "it's difficult to overstate [Smith's] positive contributions to the Padres even as his bosses were busy stripping the organization of identifiable talent. For that, San Diego fans should be grateful."

Online JohnHobbes

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 02:31:49 PM »
When FSG/NESV came in for Liverpool, a great deal was made of their success with the Boston Red Sox, and even the names they have given their businesses, namechecking Fenway Park and New England, show that they are keen for their brand to remain associated with the Red Sox and their 21st century success - a success which has since declined, of course.

Maybe we should have paid more attention to Tom Werner's earlier ownership of the San Diego Padres (1990-4) as an indication of what was in store for us. This 2007 article by Geoff Young of the Hardball Times makes for uncomfortable reading for LFC fans in the time that is in it.



I'd be concerned if the Red Sox was first and this was second but it happened twenty years ago. As it is, surely this shows that they've (Werner) learnt from their mistakes and have done better this time around? Most Red Sox are very happy with their ownership from the reports we've seen posted on here in various threads.

So something that happened 20 years ago was bad. Who doesn't have mistakes from the past they're not proud of?
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Offline kkjellquist

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 02:34:49 PM »
I think you are search for reasons to dislike or distrust FSG.  Patience.
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Offline FinnMacCool

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 02:41:44 PM »
I hope you're right, John. But I would say that the Red Sox are very much at the heart of their thinking, hence the reason they namecheck them in their company names (Fenway/New England) and hence the reason everyone now has to fly to Boston to do business with them.

I'm not scrabbling round for reasons to dislike them, and I'm also prepared to wait to see what happens next.

But when Werner and Henry took over at LFC, there was a great deal of conjecture to the effect that they must be in it for the long-haul because look at what they are doing with the Red Sox. But what evidence is there that they are in it for the long-haul for anyone but the Red Sox? Kenny Dalglish had to fly out to Boston to find out if he was going to be sacked. (spoiler)He was.(/spoiler) It takes less than half an hour to get from Wigan to Liverpool when the M58 is clear, but the Wigan manager has had to fly out to Boston to be interviewed for the Liverpool job. Likewise Villas-Boas, and anyone else who is on the long-list but hasn't ruled themselves out of the short-list. Everything the owners have done in the last few months has been to shift the power-base of the club from Anfield to New England, which means downgrading Shankly's famous holy trinity of "players, manager and supporters" and putting the power firmly back in the hands of the directors.

We have no guarantees that any of this is going to work out for Liverpool FC. We have no new stadium, although we've footed a bill for £50 million just for listening to promises of one. We have no fans' voice on the board or in the running of the club. We have had three managers in less than two years - if they're quick they can make it four. And the experience of the San Diego Padres suggests that this group's strategies can be disastrous even when they are involved with a sport where they supposedly know what they are doing.

Okay, let's be patient a little while longer. But let's not be conned again.

Offline Redwhiteandnotblue

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 02:47:42 PM »
I hope you're right, John. But I would say that the Red Sox are very much at the heart of their thinking, hence the reason they namecheck them in their company names (Fenway/New England) and hence the reason everyone now has to fly to Boston to do business with them.

[...]

Kenny Dalglish had to fly out to Boston to find out if he was going to be sacked. (spoiler)He was.(/spoiler) It takes less than half an hour to get from Wigan to Liverpool when the M58 is clear, but the Wigan manager has had to fly out to Boston to be interviewed for the Liverpool job. Likewise Villas-Boas, and anyone else who is on the long-list but hasn't ruled themselves out of the short-list.

Are those trips to Boston fact (re: Martinez and Villas-Boas) or press conjecture?

Offline coct3au

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 02:49:30 PM »
Here’s a brief summary. Werner took over the Padres when they were on the cusp of respectability, as their fans report, but after a couple of lacklustre seasons his group embarked on a slash-and-burn policy first of selling off the players, and eventually of selling the club itself at a profit. When this infamous "fire sale" began, their experienced manager Joe McIlvaine was replaced with Randy Smith, who at 29 became the youngest manager in Major League Baseball. Baseball expert Geoff Young's take on that appointment is this: "Presumably such a young and inexperienced person would be less reluctant to balk at his boss' orders to cut payroll regardless of the damage it might inflict on the franchise's ability to compete."

Before a month was out, Smith would be following orders to sell off the team's stars. First it was third baseman Gary Sheffield, just as the fans were voting for Sheffield to be part of their 25th Anniversary Dream Team. The following month it was their star hitter Fred McGriff. As a result of these Werner-enforced changes, the Padres' on-pitch performances plummeted and this formerly promising side ended up losing more than 100 games in a season for the first time since 1974.

Werner sold the Padres a year and a half later. Under the new owners, young Randy Smith was able to buy his first players that didn't involve making payroll cuts. He made some astute buys at that time, according to Young, who says "it's difficult to overstate [Smith's] positive contributions to the Padres even as his bosses were busy stripping the organization of identifiable talent. For that, San Diego fans should be grateful."

This is actually impossible, perhaps you have got FSG mixed up with Hicks and Gillett. FSG are knowledgeable in over 96% of the industries, are always successful, have no interest in money, are just "in it for the craic" (although also ruthless when the time is right), can be in up to five places at once, and have read several books about LFC.

Guardiola might decide not to become our new manager because of all this negativity. Think about it!!!

Online JohnHobbes

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2012, 02:52:02 PM »
This is actually impossible, perhaps you have got FSG mixed up with Hicks and Gillett. FSG are knowledgeable in over 96% of the industries, are always successful, have no interest in money, are just "in it for the craic" (although also ruthless when the time is right), can be in up to five places at once, and have read several books about LFC.

Guardiola might decide not to become our new manager because of all this negativity. Think about it!!!


Whereas you seem knowledgeable in 96% of all ways to spout exaggerations and rubbish. A perfect combination.

*Edit. Thinking about it, methinks that's a fishing expedition and being straight from the gym was too tired to notice it. Well played sir if it was...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 02:55:29 PM by JohnHobbes »
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Offline Carolina Red

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 02:58:41 PM »
Here’s a brief summary. Werner took over the Padres when they were on the cusp of respectability, as their fans report, but after a couple of lacklustre seasons his group embarked on a slash-and-burn policy first of selling off the players, and eventually of selling the club itself at a profit. When this infamous "fire sale" began, their experienced manager Joe McIlvaine was replaced with Randy Smith, who at 29 became the youngest manager in Major League Baseball. Baseball expert Geoff Young's take on that appointment is this: "Presumably such a young and inexperienced person would be less reluctant to balk at his boss' orders to cut payroll regardless of the damage it might inflict on the franchise's ability to compete."

Before a month was out, Smith would be following orders to sell off the team's stars. First it was third baseman Gary Sheffield, just as the fans were voting for Sheffield to be part of their 25th Anniversary Dream Team. The following month it was their star hitter Fred McGriff. As a result of these Werner-enforced changes, the Padres' on-pitch performances plummeted and this formerly promising side ended up losing more than 100 games in a season for the first time since 1974.

Werner sold the Padres a year and a half later. Under the new owners, young Randy Smith was able to buy his first players that didn't involve making payroll cuts. He made some astute buys at that time, according to Young, who says "it's difficult to overstate [Smith's] positive contributions to the Padres even as his bosses were busy stripping the organization of identifiable talent. For that, San Diego fans should be grateful."

Couple points.

First, I have no idea of the internal blow-by-blow of what happened back then, as I'm not a Padres fan. However, I recall that they were trying to clear out a lot of older, highly paid veterans because the team was hemmoraging money (hell, they bought a Major League team for $75 million; the LA Dodgers just sold for $2 BILLION).

Secondly, in American sports, particularly baseball, clearing out older, big name players on big contracts is a typical means of rebuilding a team's roster. Because there is no threat of relegation, teams can resign themselves to being terrible for a year or two while clearing out expensive, underperforming players while developing young players in the team's "farm system." Many teams have gone this route and won titles.

Third, I have no idea if FSG's plan for Liverpool will work or not.

Offline Heighwayondawing

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 03:14:35 PM »
Here’s a brief summary. Werner took over the Padres when they were on the cusp of respectability, as their fans report, but after a couple of lacklustre seasons his group embarked on a slash-and-burn policy first of selling off the players, and eventually of selling the club itself at a profit. When this infamous "fire sale" began, their experienced manager Joe McIlvaine was replaced with Randy Smith, who at 29 became the youngest manager in Major League Baseball. Baseball expert Geoff Young's take on that appointment is this: "Presumably such a young and inexperienced person would be less reluctant to balk at his boss' orders to cut payroll regardless of the damage it might inflict on the franchise's ability to compete."

Before a month was out, Smith would be following orders to sell off the team's stars. First it was third baseman Gary Sheffield, just as the fans were voting for Sheffield to be part of their 25th Anniversary Dream Team. The following month it was their star hitter Fred McGriff. As a result of these Werner-enforced changes, the Padres' on-pitch performances plummeted and this formerly promising side ended up losing more than 100 games in a season for the first time since 1974.

Werner sold the Padres a year and a half later. Under the new owners, young Randy Smith was able to buy his first players that didn't involve making payroll cuts. He made some astute buys at that time, according to Young, who says "it's difficult to overstate [Smith's] positive contributions to the Padres even as his bosses were busy stripping the organization of identifiable talent. For that, San Diego fans should be grateful."

I see your concern, but come off the ledge. This article is written with an agenda. The player sales comment is complete bullshit. I'm not referring to anything you've said, I'm referring to the article.

Gary Sheffield was a c*nt of a man who admitted to purposely making fielding errors to prove a point. The point was He WANTED to be traded. He played for eight different franchises and none of them were sad to see the back of him. This is a man who heaped praise upon then Yankee manager Joe Torre while with the team and then openly accused him of treating black players as inferior when he was refused a new contract.

Fred McGriff was traded due to bloated contract demands. He was a wonderful player at the time, but the facts are that San Diego is about as small market as it gets in MLB and he priced himself out of it. If he wanted to be there, he would have been.

Bottom line is, the Padres have almost never been competitive aside from a couple of World Series appearances and that cannot be blamed on one owner. They are perpetually spinning wheels.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 03:17:23 PM by Heighwayondawing »
The one most important thing that we all must remember, in case it slipped our mind, is this club is much more important and bigger than anybody. I'll never forget that and anybody that does is being a wee bit irresponsible and stupid I think because the club is more important than any one individual. The Club is, The Club.

Offline Heighwayondawing

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 03:18:53 PM »

Secondly, in American sports, particularly baseball, clearing out older, big name players on big contracts is a typical means of rebuilding a team's roster. Because there is no threat of relegation, teams can resign themselves to being terrible for a year or two while clearing out expensive, underperforming players while developing young players in the team's "farm system." Many teams have gone this route and won titles.


Good point. Here's another, the Padres played in the 98 World Series. So, the sky certainly didn't fall.
The one most important thing that we all must remember, in case it slipped our mind, is this club is much more important and bigger than anybody. I'll never forget that and anybody that does is being a wee bit irresponsible and stupid I think because the club is more important than any one individual. The Club is, The Club.

Offline kkjellquist

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2012, 03:19:52 PM »
Kenny Dalglish had to fly out to Boston to find out if he was going to be sacked.

I must be the only person who read going to Boston was Kenny's decision. 

FSG has been the owners of LFC for a very short period of time and I'll wait and see what happens.
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 03:22:25 PM »
We need to stop looking for ways to undermine the club at this delicate and transitive time. Let's make YNWA our rallying cry. We need to be patient. The process is in place and all we can do is wait and support the club 110%. It's what Kenny and Shanks would want.
YNWA

Offline lorenzo23

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2012, 03:36:17 PM »
I just hope all you guys trying to attack FSG every step of way rather than supporting the club, will still be doing this while we back at top. More to the point i wonder where all these threads were when kenny was in charge ::) Best fans in world or just bunch of hypocrites like vultures, of for the kill. 
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Offline FinnMacCool

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San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2012, 04:05:27 PM »
Thanks to Heighway and Carolina for those informed comments about baseball and the Padres. Obviously it is worrying to hear that season ticket holders once took out a class action against one of your owners (as Padres' fans did to Werner) and won, so I wanted to find out more about it. But maybe there is more to it than meets the eye.

Offline FinnMacCool

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San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2012, 04:07:37 PM »
This is actually impossible, perhaps you have got FSG mixed up with Hicks and Gillett. FSG are knowledgeable in over 96% of the industries, are always successful, have no interest in money, are just "in it for the craic" (although also ruthless when the time is right), can be in up to five places at once, and have read several books about LFC.

Guardiola might decide not to become our new manager because of all this negativity. Think about it!!!

Ha ha.

Offline FinnMacCool

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San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2012, 04:16:09 PM »
I must be the only person who read going to Boston was Kenny's decision. 


I don't think he should have had to, really- do you? But maybe that's just me being an old romantic for thinking the owners of the club should have some kind of presence in or near Liverpool.

Offline Heighwayondawing

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2012, 04:29:49 PM »
Thanks to Heighway and Carolina for those informed comments about baseball and the Padres. Obviously it is worrying to hear that season ticket holders once took out a class action against one of your owners (as Padres' fans did to Werner) and won, so I wanted to find out more about it. But maybe there is more to it than meets the eye.

I'd chalk that win in court up to the general strangeness that occurs in the state of California.  ;D
The one most important thing that we all must remember, in case it slipped our mind, is this club is much more important and bigger than anybody. I'll never forget that and anybody that does is being a wee bit irresponsible and stupid I think because the club is more important than any one individual. The Club is, The Club.

Offline regnaD kciN

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2012, 06:10:52 PM »
I know that this sort of article is just what is wanted to stoke the FSG-Hate Brigade here, but I would observe that it has always struck me that Henry, not Werner, is "the brains of the outfit" at FSG.  Werner is an entertainment mogul who probably has a lot of good publicity and marketing ideas, but I think it's clear he doesn't call the shots at Fenway.  As a matter of fact, that was what concerned me about Kenny's status during the season -- whenever any quotes came out of FSG about how KK enjoyed their full support, they were always coming from Werner, never Henry.  I don't think it was impossible that Werner supported Kenny, while Henry wanted to make a change.  In such a scenario, it was clear all along who was going to win.

Offline Mizerooskie

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2012, 06:18:57 PM »
What Carolina Red said is completely spot on.  The "Fire Sale" is an extremely common occurrence in American sports due to the absence of relegation and the presence of the amateur draft.

There is a significantly higher level of parity in American sports that allows the fire sale to be a viable and effective strategy.

There's very little about the Padres' situation that applies to LFC.

Offline gregorio

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2012, 06:26:57 PM »
I just hope all you guys trying to attack FSG every step of way rather than supporting the club, will still be doing this while we back at top. More to the point i wonder where all these threads were when kenny was in charge ::) Best fans in world or just bunch of hypocrites like vultures, of for the kill.

When 'Kenny was around' FSG hadn't sacked a club legend without giving him a chance, there is obviously going to be less trust in them now. That's not hypocrisy, it's respondinf to events. Honeymoon over.
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2012, 06:31:32 PM »
How about you wait to see what FSG do before you all start getting your pitch forks out?
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Offline lorenzo23

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2012, 06:32:57 PM »
When 'Kenny was around' FSG hadn't sacked a club legend without giving him a chance, there is obviously going to be less trust in them now. That's not hypocrisy, it's respondinf to events. Honeymoon over.

If i was not mistaken people was singing praise of FSG of how they saved us blah blah? then they go Kenny back jesus the place went crazy FSG all good things FSG FSG. Now they take action which maybe around 50% of fans not happy with they are the devil??

I wait and see if they are the  devil not cause they sacked a Manager not the legend it was nothing to do with Kenny personally it was to do with his performance as a "MANAGER" not legend that's the key things people forget.

Also there is two sides to the debate if he should get more time, lot including my self think he should of but we the decision has been taking and i am willing to see this new structure take place.
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Offline kopite_sg8

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2012, 06:43:59 PM »
every new thread nowadays has an element of desperation to find some faults with fsg just to prove a point. I dont know why people are so desperate. firstly fans are allowed to be emotionally connected to the club hence the disappointment of kenny leaving. but an ideal owner is the one who makes decisions with his head not his heart. now whether or not they are proven right, time will tell. but meanwhile dont take out ur frustrations on every little petty thing they do.
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Offline kopite_sg8

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2012, 06:47:49 PM »
If i was not mistaken people was singing praise of FSG of how they saved us blah blah? then they go Kenny back jesus the place went crazy FSG all good things FSG FSG. Now they take action which maybe around 50% of fans not happy with they are the devil??

I wait and see if they are the  devil not cause they sacked a Manager not the legend it was nothing to do with Kenny personally it was to do with his performance as a "MANAGER" not legend that's the key things people forget.

Also there is two sides to the debate if he should get more time, lot including my self think he should of but we the decision has been taking and i am willing to see this new structure take place.
just what I was thinking mate. a lot of people have flipped the coin since kenny has left and now bashing fsg with the same stick they were once praising them. first the liverpool way of doing business indoors and now people are pissed off they are not communicating with them. thats just one of many arguments against them now.
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Offline FinnMacCool

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2012, 07:01:06 PM »
When 'Kenny was around' FSG hadn't sacked a club legend without giving him a chance, there is obviously going to be less trust in them now. That's not hypocrisy, it's responding to events. Honeymoon over.

Thanks, Gregorio, that's more or less what I think too.

I started this thread by saying that the account of Tom Werner did with the San Diego Padres "makes uncomfortable reading for LFC fans." It made uncomfortable reading for me, anyway, so I thought I'd share some of my discomfort with youse. I also said, "Okay, let's be patient a little while longer. But let's not be conned again." All of which I think is quite moderate language.

By way of reply, Mr Rossi suggests that I am too quick to get my pitchfork out, while Lorenzo posts "just bunch of hypocrites like vultures, of for the kill" (which I don't quite follow, but it sounds nasty) and claims that I have accused Henry/Werner of being the devil. I didn't do that, I just said that the report made uncomfortable reading for LFC fans like me, and by the strength of their responses I'd say it makes uncomfortable reading for Lorenzo and Mr Rossi also.

Thanks again to the baseball fans for their comments, which are helpful to me in trying to get to know our absentee owners a bit better. Heighwayondawing says that the article I quoted was written with "an agenda". Maybe it was, but from what I can see the author of the article is a San Diego Padres fan who writes for The Hardball Times, Ducksnorts and Baseball Prospectus. It doesn't seem obvious to me why someone with that background would have an agenda against Tom Werner, but that might just be my ignorance. I'd genuinely like to know why that would be the case.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2012, 07:12:35 PM »
Tom Werner also made the US version of Men Behaving Badly.  :o

(Which is about as relevant to LFC as anything else so far mentioned.)

Offline FinnMacCool

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2012, 07:17:00 PM »
every new thread nowadays has an element of desperation to find some faults with fsg just to prove a point. I dont know why people are so desperate. firstly fans are allowed to be emotionally connected to the club hence the disappointment of kenny leaving. but an ideal owner is the one who makes decisions with his head not his heart. now whether or not they are proven right, time will tell. but meanwhile dont take out ur frustrations on every little petty thing they do.

Can't speak for any other threads, but for me anyway there is no element of desperation to prove any kind of anti-FSG point, nor am I trying to bash FSG with the same stick I was once praising them with.

There have been a number of incidents that have raised questions for me about our current owners over the last few months. By starting a thread like this on RAWK I wasn't desperate to attack the owners but quite the opposite - I was hoping that some people who know more about the San Diego Padres that I do might be able to offer some reassuring comments. To some extent that's what has happened - I've learned a bit more about the baseball scene.

But comments like your own make me feel less reassured, because it seems like the slightest doubt a fan might raise about the current owners is met with angry remarks about "trying to attack FSG every step of way rather than supporting the club". I wasn't trying to attack anyone, I was just raising a question. The strength of the vitriol by way of some of the replies makes me think that the nerve I've touched is quite raw though, so maybe my doubts are better founded than I was hoping.   

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2012, 07:39:08 PM »
I am beginning to notice a pattern of the same people trying to suppress any criticism or scrutiny of FSG, is this coincidence then John?
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2012, 07:46:17 PM »
I think you are search for reasons to dislike or distrust FSG.  Patience.

This attitude is fucking mental. As was the general apathy shown toward Henry and co. when they rudely snubbed the Union.

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2012, 07:48:28 PM »
I am beginning to notice a pattern of the same people trying to suppress any criticism or scrutiny of FSG, is this coincidence then John?

Is this aimed at me? If so, I'd respond that I'm merely posting rebuttals to inflammatory/misleading comments regarding FSG and then debating points made on subjects otherwise.

I'm noticing a pattern of the same people who are trying to encourage criticism of FSG rather than having a debate on the actual available facts. Is that a coincidence?
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2012, 07:52:36 PM »
How about you wait to see what FSG do before you all start getting your pitch forks out?

This.
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2012, 07:56:49 PM »
Thanks John  I thought only people directly involved in any statement needed rebuttals, such as FSG themselves, must have got that bit wrong then?

The fact that Finn remarked about their history that maybe wasn't wildly known is useful for an honest discussion about them but you moved to discredit it faster than shit off a shovel!

What's one to think  ;)
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2012, 08:04:54 PM »
Thanks John  I thought only people directly involved in any statement needed rebuttals, such as FSG themselves, must have got that bit wrong then?

The fact that Finn remarked about their history that maybe wasn't wildly known is useful for an honest discussion about them but you moved to discredit it faster than shit off a shovel!

What's one to think  ;)

Merely bored at work at the time and saw the thread. As I said if it had been shown to be more recent and the other way around it'd have been a serious worry. As other posters have since commented to further alleviate such concerns then in this case I was right to not be too worried. I wasn't attempting to discredit anything merely pointing out things of interest to consider alongside the OP.

If sufficient information on the topic hasn't already been posted elsewhere then I normally tend to always ask fans more informed than I, in this case ones based in America, for a better understanding. In this case CarolinaRed has been very helpful in my awareness of this.
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2012, 08:33:55 PM »
just what I was thinking mate. a lot of people have flipped the coin since kenny has left and now bashing fsg with the same stick they were once praising them. first the liverpool way of doing business indoors and now people are pissed off they are not communicating with them. thats just one of many arguments against them now.

I hope to see none of these poster praising the club/team/management when we are winning..... 
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2012, 08:34:57 PM »
Thanks John  I thought only people directly involved in any statement needed rebuttals, such as FSG themselves, must have got that bit wrong then?

The fact that Finn remarked about their history that maybe wasn't wildly known is useful for an honest discussion about them but you moved to discredit it faster than shit off a shovel!

What's one to think  ;)

Ah just like the same negative poster that want to bring doom and gloom down on club cause Kenny got the boot no other reason just cause Kenny got boot, sorry to tell you mate but not one man is bigger than the club.
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2012, 08:37:17 PM »
Some serious paranoia on here. Who needs Brookie when you have LFC?
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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2012, 08:41:05 PM »
The hounding of anything negative towards FSG on this site is getting embarrassing.

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2012, 08:45:50 PM »
The hounding of anything negative towards FSG on this site is getting embarrassing.
Don't have to read it if you don't want to.

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Re: San Diego Padres 1993: Liverpool FC 2012?
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2012, 08:49:37 PM »
Don't have to read it if you don't want to.


True that. And I won't be. Some of the nonsense being spouted is cringe-worthy