Topic: Our Defence

[Camarero25]

You got them the wrong way round.

[kevmck]

if it weren't for injury and inconsistency then a great defense..

but with the injuries (lucas.. agger.. johnson) and the inconsistencies (enrique) - our defense wasn't the most solid..

[Z e u s]

Only bested in our league by Man City.

I agree.

[scoresagain]

It is a very good defensive line, the only person I would change is Enrique, but its not the best in the world.

[Z e u s]

Who did rafa not sign in that back six. And you wanted him sacked 

Enrique.

This topic is not about Rafa, so let's not start debating him in it please.

[Adeemo]

kompany and "the john smiths' cardboard cut out" would be a good cb partnership, not a big drop off with lescott either

If you honestly believe that then you've either not been watching City enough to see Lescott's progress over the last two seasons, or you're pretty clueless when it comes to centre halves and probably football in general.

[Adeemo]

Enrique.

This topic is not about Rafa, so let's not start debating him in it please.

He's got a point though.

[Z e u s]

Gerrard and Bellamy have shocking recent injury records and Sterling is 17. I also like Henderson, but again I'm not sure he's completely ready. We need to add at least 3 quality players to our attack this summer in my opinion (CM, RM/LM, ST).

I agree.

[Z e u s]

He's got a point though.

He does.

I had no problem with Benitez's signings, I have never said otherwise.

I had other issues with him, as stated numerous times elsewhere.

[fatlip13]

If you honestly believe that then you've either not been watching City enough to see Lescott's progress over the last two seasons, or you're pretty clueless when it comes to centre halves and probably football in general.

i saw how he has grown the last day of the season, how he coped without kompany. which 1 of our cbs' would get left out for him

[mikey_LFC]

Although it is more of a back 2 or 1 at times the Barcelona back six is amazing:

Valdes, Alves, Puyol, Pique, Adriano, Mascherano

or even

Valdes, Alves, Mascherano, Puyol, Adriano, Busquets

Mascherano really impressed me at CB this year.

Our back 6 does look good on paper although for most of this season I have not been impressed by Enrique and actually I think if we had kept Insua and let him develop he would be a better player and showed that at times this season. I just can't stand to watch Enrique do that little pirouette and stick out a leg. And is it me or does he seem to make a mistake every time we sing his song? Maybe I'm just being superstitious but I won't sing it any more.

Glen Johnson has definitely got better this season and I think a lot of that is to do with him being given the license to go forward, he looks a lot more confident on the ball and running at defenders ever since Kenny returned and looks like the player he was when Rafa signed him.

Agger, Skrtel and Lucas are an awesome combination which looked solid at the start of the season especially with Lucas playing as well as he did especially in those games against Man City and Chelsea.

But best in the world, potentially in the future, Enrique needs to get a bit more confidence when going forward and him and Johnson could make very useful wing backs if Lucas is there to cover defensively. However at the moment I would put Man City's above us in the Premier League and worldwide Barca's, Juve's and Real's. Juve's is probably the best defensively (only conceded 20 goals all season) but Barca and Reals are probably better going forward.

I would like to see us experiment with a 3 man defence with wing backs like Napoli or like we did when Kenny first came back, with Coates in there as well which would give the full backs more license to drive forward which would help Enrique especially.

[Benbo]

Definitely the best back 6 in Liverpool

[rowan_d]

We could do with a left back to be honest. Enrique wasn't good enough from February or so onwards, and we can't afford to carry him when he's playing like that

[Z e u s]

I would like to see us experiment with a 3 man defence with wing backs like Napoli or like we did when Kenny first came back, with Coates in there as well which would give the full backs more license to drive forward which would help Enrique especially.

If Martinez comes we might see 3-4-3.

We have three quality centre backs and two attacking full backs capable of being wing backs in Johnson and Enrique, I'd sure Kelly could do this as well, maybe Robinson.

I think Robinson will really challenge Enrique for his spot this season, I rate him highly.

[Z e u s]

We could do with a left back to be honest. Enrique wasn't good enough from February or so onwards, and we can't afford to carry him when he's playing like that

But most of the team were awful after February, not just Enrique.

Before that everyone was extremely impressed with him and he was boss!

[Adeemo]

i saw how he has grown the last day of the season, how he coped without kompany. which 1 of our cbs' would get left out for him

Not saying he's better than Agger or Skrtel, just that their partnership is and he's now a top centre half. Also, regarding his mistake against QPR, seem to remember Martin making a few of those for us, everyone makes the odd big mistake, even Kompany.

[mikey_LFC]

If Martinez comes we might see 3-4-3.

We have three quality centre backs and two attacking full backs capable of being wing backs in Johnson and Enrique, I'd sure Kelly could do this as well, maybe Robinson.

I think Robinson will really challenge Enrique for his spot this season, I rate him highly.

I really hope Robinson gets a chance, I thought he would have done last year as I thought Enrique ran out of legs last year towards the end, and in those games when Aurelio played I really would have prefered to see Robinson on as Aurelio didn't look to have the pace or fitness. I think we could well see Robinson and Kelly hold onto those full back positions for a few years, they both look quality. And out of the three players, Flanno, Kelly and Robinson, I really think Robinson has the best all round game at full back, looks good going forward and defensively, whereas I see Kelly as more of an attacking option and Flanagan more defensively. However what I would really love to see is in a couple of year Kelly move back into the CB position and we could have all three playing.

[kcbworth]

Fit Johnson + Fit Agger + Skrtel + Lucas + On Form Reina = about as good as you can get. I think we could upgrade on Enrique, but given the quality of the others, probably dont need to.

Great thread !!!

[fatlip13]

Not saying he's better than Agger or Skrtel, just that their partnership is and he's now a top centre half. Also, regarding his mistake against QPR, seem to remember Martin making a few of those for us, everyone makes the odd big mistake, even Kompany.

fair enough, i would have ours 1st. lescott has improved but he was poor at cb before that and played better at lb for everton. i would say that our partnership is probably better than the parts

[Tony18:5]

Its a great basis from which to start next season.

I seem to recall Wenger praising Graham for leaving him that Arsenal back 5 (although we're not that good!)

Reina's not been at his best this year, but despite that I wouldn't swap him for anyone really.

Enrique was arguably our best player up until Jan/Feb when his form dropped off, still shown enough though to stick with him imo.

[mikey_LFC]

If we were to play a 3 5 2 ish formation with:

Reina

Coates     Skrtel      Agger

Johnson          Lucas       Henderson        Enrique

Gerrard

Carroll       Suarez

I have to say I think that looks a quality team on paper.

With that defence with those wing backs I can't see many goals conceded and they can provide good quick passing football down the flanks, and if Carroll keeps up his form there could be a fair few goals as well.

[Z e u s]

And out of the three players, Flanno, Kelly and Robinson, I really think Robinson has the best all round game at full back, looks good going forward and defensively, whereas I see Kelly as more of an attacking option and Flanagan more defensively. However what I would really love to see is in a couple of year Kelly move back into the CB position and we could have all three playing.

I agree about Robinson.

Disagree about Kelly and Flanagan -I think Flanagan looks better going forward than he does defensively.  Hemade some costly mistakes last season when used (QPR and the opening day of the season - he was hardly used more than those two games) and did the season before (vs Villa).  I see Kelly being better defensively than he is going forward... although that is not to say he can't be good going forward, but Johnson is better in that regard.

Kelly for me hasz the physique of a centre back, I agree with that - but I can't see him getting a chance in that position, unless we do play three at the back.

[Z e u s]

If we were to play a 3 5 2 ish formation with:

Reina

Coates     Skrtel      Agger

Johnson          Lucas       Henderson        Enrique

Gerrard

Carroll       Suarez

I have to say I think that looks a quality team on paper.

I agree and it doesn't include Bellamy, who was one of our best players last season.

[mikey_LFC]

I agree about Robinson.

Disagree about Kelly and Flanagan -I think Flanagan looks better going forward than he does defensively.  Hemade some costly mistakes last season when used (QPR and the opening day of the season - he was hardly used more than those two games) and did the season before (vs Villa).

Kelly for me hasz the physique of a centre back, I agree with that - but I can't see him getting a chance in that position, unless we do play three at the back.

Possibly, i just always thought Kelly's crosses at times have been awesome when we are on the front foot. (Not his finishing though as we saw vs Arsenal). And Flanagan when he's defended is like a terrier nipping at their legs, and he leaves all his effort on the pitch, works so hard. A bit like Spearing in that respect. He is good when he gets forward but he seems a bit more tentative to do so Robinson and Kelly. But he showed how good he can be against City last season. One of the best debut performances I've seen in a while for us.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

It's not even the best back six at our club.

Enrique has had a frankly dismal last third of the season. Even when he was playing defensively better his attacking play is poor in terms of his game intelligence. He is a sprinter who decided late in life to be a footballer and it shows. And Reina wouldn't get in the top six keepers this season either.

All playing on form and with fitness not an issue I'd have Aurelio in Enrique's place - not only does he offer far more attacking threat in open play he is better at setpieces too.

An alternative is Johnson on the left and Kelly on the right.

[Mashy-rawr!nooo]

Definitely the best back 6 in Liverpool

What do everton beat us at bar Dvd production

[Z e u s]

And Flanagan when he's defended is like a terrier nipping at their legs, and he leaves all his effort on the pitch, works so hard.

I don't really rate Flanagan very highly.

Not writing him off totally, I think he needs to go on loan next season and progress, but he is very rash defensively and I think McLaughlin has a brighter future than Flanagan.

[mikey_LFC]

Not writing him off totally, I think he needs to go on loan next season and progress, but he is very rash defensively and I think McLaughlin has a brighter future than Flanagan.

I agree, does seem like he could do with going on loan for a season to gain some maturity which might stop him diving in which allows good wingers to just skip past him, but in my eyes he has shown a few sparks which could potentially grow. I think Spearing could do with another year out as well. The only problem is we have gotten into the habit of loaning players out and then you never see them again, happened a few times more than I'd like to see over the past few years. Not seem much of McLaughlin but I've heard good things from that youth thread. Overall it'd be nice to just see some of our youth prospects given a chance seeing as our academy is rated so highly at the moment.

[Z e u s]

Enrique has had a frankly dismal last third of the season.

So did the whole side nearly.

Reina did, even Skrtel, our player of the season, made about 3 or 4 mistakes in the last two or three months...

Very few players played well in the last third of the season and before that Enrique was raved about.  We have to get him back to his best and the new manager has to get the best out of the players we have, if he does we'll have a very good team. 

[NornIron!!]

Not a chance! For one they are mentally weak against supposedly weaker sides

[skeebo]

I would probably swap Enrique for Ashley Cole and Maybe Skrtel for Kompany with Skrtel on the bench

[Adeemo]

All playing on form and with fitness not an issue I'd have Aurelio in Enrique's place - not only does he offer far more attacking threat in open play he is better at setpieces too.

Fab's no longer at the club.

[Camarero25]

What do everton beat us at bar Dvd production

League position? 

[Z e u s]

I would probably swap Enrique for Ashley Cole and Maybe Skrtel for Kompany with Skrtel on the bench

Individually there are better players around.

I am talking about the whole back six as a group, not individually. 

[scoresagain]

Fab's no longer at the club.

Don't remind me

[helmboy_nige]

Best back 6?  lol

for me you'd need to replace Johnson and Enrique.  they are good players but there are definitely better.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Simple question...

Is this the best back six in the world?

Reina

Johnson Skrtel Agger Enrique

Lucas

I personally wouldn't swap that whole back six as a group for any other, given their age and quality.

the whole side nearly [had a dismal last third of the season]

Reina did, even Skrtel, our player of the season, made about 3 or 4 mistakes in the last two or three months...

Very few players played well in the last third of the season and before that Enrique was raved about. 

Do you see the problem here?

[Z e u s]

Do you see the problem here?

Form is temporary.

[Not A Scouser]

With that back 6 we gave up over a goal a game (just).  Man Utd and City gave up less than a goal a game for the entire season.

The defence is the strongest part of the club as it gave up the next fewest goals in the league, even with 3 of those 6 injured for significant portions of the season.

[Stevie93]

Real Madrid have a better back 6 in every position, bar right back.