Topic: Letter to FSG:Recent Events

[Stretch Armstrong]

It was formed due to H&G predations. They're gone. I'm curious as to what change they need to lobby for at this time? Theirs is surely a watching brief at best for now?

They are a football union i.e. remit is to support the welfare of the fans and the club.  The H&G debarcle lead to their creation but their removal wasn't they one and only goal.  They are there to ensure fans concerns are aired formally with the club as per the letter in the OP

[Wingman]

Liverpool won't get Jose Mourinho or any top boss while the club is such a shambles under John Henry and Co

Who says we want Mourinho?

What's the author's definition of "top boss" and what will the excuse be if we hire someone that meets this definition?

[JohnHobbes]

They are a football union i.e. remit is to support the welfare of the fans and the club.  The H&G debarcle lead to their creation but their removal wasn't they one and only goal.  They are there to ensure fans concerns are aired formally with the club as per the letter in the OP

Okay, fair enough. The poster I quoted stated their remit was to achieve change at the club but I wasn't sure what change needed to happen at this time. Which is why I suggested surely it was more a watching brief.

[Kenny Red]

Who says we want Mourinho?

What's the author's definition of "top boss" and what will the excuse be if we hire someone that meets this definition?

I agree

Its amazing that any other time the media produces what is clearly toxic destabilisng articles they get torn to pieces by the majority in here, but when it supports their personal agendas they lap it up like a cat with a tub of fresh cream.

But hey, there's no agenda though, it a good honest well meaning article guv 

[stjohn65]

You don't half exaggerate do you mate? They've already said there will be wholesale management appointments in a week or two to replace the lost roles. So we don't have structure in place for a few weeks, that's hardly going to derail and "cripple" the club at the end of a season.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we're rudderless. These owners sacked a DoF just before a cup final, saying quite specifically that they wanted his replacement in situ well before the transfer window? Where is he? Oh, hold on...we don't want one like that any more...we want to rearrange his job description and split it between three or four specialist roles. Yeah, that's right, that's what we decided ages ago...honest. We'd say more but we've run out of room on the back of this fag packet...

Those two weeks you talk about are the start of the transfer window. At this stage we should be working on the strategy for next season, how to build on from where we are and cement the foundations for long term progress. Hell, I'd expect us to know exactly who our transfer priorities are, and be well on with approaches, negotiations etc. We have no-one in place anywhere who is in a position to undertake that very basic task.

So we appoint a whole new back room team, lets say by the end of the month, as is their latest promise? (for what that's worth). Do they then start to assess the strengths of the squad in the light of how they want the team set up? Will they have even met the squad before they can make such an assessment or are they going to rely on match of the day clips?  Are they aware say, of how well Lucas is progressing? What the long term prognosis for Gerrard and his ageing legs may be? Make no mistake, there are gaps in that squad that need plugging, and on what basis, with what insight will they be in a position to plug them?

The worst of it is, nobody filling  those roles can be sure that the owners have the first idea of the nature and size of the task they've just handed out. The owners who will judge their performance by whatever criteria they choose to set, ill informed or otherwise.

I honestly don't want to be saying this, I'd love the people in charge to be smart, informed and quietly efficient. But Peter Robinson and his ilk are long gone, and sitting back and trusting these guys isn't an option. I'll honestly, happily trust them...but only when they have proved that they deserve that trust, it sure as hell ain't going to be handed out gratis.

[hide5seek]

I'd LOVE to hear them.

Me too.

[mccred]

I think the list of possible managers is just a media frenzy because they know fuck all, apart from Martinez and that Rogers and Klopp ruled themselves out, probably without even being approached. They just wanted nothing to do with a media circus when they know their not intending on moving on.
My only gripe at the moment, apart from Kenny being gone, is who the fuck is giving them their football advice? Apart from the players and reserve/youth team coaching staff, who are the football people who'll be making these massive decisions?  The owners openly admit they know fuck all about football, & that's a situation that landed us Hodgson, which does worry me.
Oh and could of done without Aire inferring trophies mean fuck all, might not of been what he meant but it's certainly the way I read it and I'm sure a lot of people around the world would of read it that way.
I know its not a sport, its a business, personally that makes my blood run cold.

[Kenny Red]

I think the list of possible managers is just a media frenzy because they know fuck all, apart from Martinez and that Rogers and Klopp ruled themselves out, probably without even being approached. They just wanted nothing to do with a media circus when they know their not intending on moving on.
My only gripe at the moment, apart from Kenny being gone, is who the fuck is giving them their football advice? Apart from the players and reserve/youth team coaching staff, who are the football people who'll be making these massive decisions?  The owners openly admit they know fuck all about football, & that's a situation that landed us Hodgson, which does worry me.
Oh and could of done without Aire inferring trophies mean fuck all, might not of been what he meant but it's certainly the way I read it and I'm sure a lot of people around the world would of read it that way.
I know its not a sport, its a business, personally that makes my blood run cold.

From the looks of it is David Dein, ex arsenal CEO. You know the one that brought Wenger to club, oversaw the administration the club during the 'invincibles' era and the building of the new stadium.

I'd like to hear people say he has no clue about how to run a football club and make key strategic decisions

[hide5seek]

From the looks of it is David Dein, ex arsenal CEO. You know the one that brought Wenger to club, oversaw the administration the club during the 'invincibles' era and the building of the new stadium.

I'd like to hear people say he has no clue about how to run a football club and make key strategic decisions

More likelly Barwick (sp).

[Kenny Red]

More likelly Barwick (sp).

Only on the communications and FA relations side of the club by all accounts. Dein is giving advice on the structure and strategy of the club.

I know this as I have ties to Liverpool University (Not saying anymore than this) where Barwick is the Head of The Football industries department of the University

[jillc]

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we're rudderless. These owners sacked a DoF just before a cup final, saying quite specifically that they wanted his replacement in situ well before the transfer window? Where is he? Oh, hold on...we don't want one like that any more...we want to rearrange his job description and split it between three or four specialist roles. Yeah, that's right, that's what we decided ages ago...honest. We'd say more but we've run out of room on the back of this fag packet...

Those two weeks you talk about are the start of the transfer window. At this stage we should be working on the strategy for next season, how to build on from where we are and cement the foundations for long term progress. Hell, I'd expect us to know exactly who our transfer priorities are, and be well on with approaches, negotiations etc. We have no-one in place anywhere who is in a position to undertake that very basic task.

So we appoint a whole new back room team, lets say by the end of the month, as is their latest promise? (for what that's worth). Do they then start to assess the strengths of the squad in the light of how they want the team set up? Will they have even met the squad before they can make such an assessment or are they going to rely on match of the day clips?  Are they aware say, of how well Lucas is progressing? What the long term prognosis for Gerrard and his ageing legs may be? Make no mistake, there are gaps in that squad that need plugging, and on what basis, with what insight will they be in a position to plug them?

The worst of it is, nobody filling  those roles can be sure that the owners have the first idea of the nature and size of the task they've just handed out. The owners who will judge their performance by whatever criteria they choose to set, ill informed or otherwise.

I honestly don't want to be saying this, I'd love the people in charge to be smart, informed and quietly efficient. But Peter Robinson and his ilk are long gone, and sitting back and trusting these guys isn't an option. I'll honestly, happily trust them...but only when they have proved that they deserve that trust, it sure as hell ain't going to be handed out gratis.

Good post, it's like swimming against the tide at the moment though.

[hide5seek]

Only on the communications and FA relations side of the club by all accounts. Dein is giving advice on the structure and strategy of the club.

I know this as I have ties to Liverpool University (Not saying anymore than this) where Barwick is the Head of The Football industries department of the University

K:-) Not sure I want an Arsenal man helping us haha

[JohnHobbes]

Those two weeks you talk about are the start of the transfer window. At this stage we should be working on the strategy for next season, how to build on from where we are and cement the foundations for long term progress. Hell, I'd expect us to know exactly who our transfer priorities are, and be well on with approaches, negotiations etc. We have no-one in place anywhere who is in a position to undertake that very basic task.

So we appoint a whole new back room team, lets say by the end of the month, as is their latest promise? (for what that's worth). Do they then start to assess the strengths of the squad in the light of how they want the team set up? Will they have even met the squad before they can make such an assessment or are they going to rely on match of the day clips?  Are they aware say, of how well Lucas is progressing? What the long term prognosis for Gerrard and his ageing legs may be? Make no mistake, there are gaps in that squad that need plugging, and on what basis, with what insight will they be in a position to plug them?

For the former, how can we be well on our way with approaching/negotiating for transfers when a new manager coming in will have their own definition of what players they want. Why would we be spending time which no doubt would be wasted? I'd be peeved as a new manager if I had a player foisted on me as soon as I joined for £Xm when I'd have spent that money on what I deemed a more worthy target, remember Rafa inheriting Cisse?

For the latter, we do have coaching staff still in place, e.g. Clarke, who can do this for now and meet up with any prospective managers to relay information as and when needed. If Clarke had left rather than having his resignation refused then we'd be down to the reserves/academy coaching teams and yes it'd be more valid and worrying.

*edit. oh so many typos. shameful.

[Kenny Red]

K:-) Not sure I want an Arsenal man helping us haha

Ha, indeed you may have point, but in the absence of any competent locals or those with ties to club its probably the best advice we can get in my opinion.

Hugely respected both nationally and internationally and someone with a proven track record, he has walked the walk as well as talked the talk.

We could be being advised by far worse.

[stjohn65]

For the former, how can we be well on our way with approaching/negotiating for transfers when a new manager coming in will have their own definition of what players they want. Why would we be spending time which no doubt would be wasted? I'd be peeved as a new manager if I had a player foisted on me as soon as I joined for £Xm when I'd have spent that money on what I deemed a more worthy target, remember Rafa inheriting Cisse?

my point exactly. Hence the concern at where we find ourselves.

For the latter, we do have coaching staff still in place, e.g. Clarke, who can do this for now and meet up with any prospective managers to relay information as and when needed. If Clarke had left rather than having his resignation refused then we'd be down to the reserves/academy coaching teams and yes it'd be more valid and worrying.

Sorry, that's a poor way to run a club. Clarke  wanted to resign, ends up acting as proxy for prospective managers at a time when a firm hand on the tiller is required. I really don't think that's good enough for Liverpool Football Club.

[stjohn65]

Good post, it's like swimming against the tide at the moment though.

don't think it is, really. Most of those who think it's ok as things are have little to substantiate that point of view - I can't see their arguments holding much sway, since there are barely any arguments to grapple with.

[montysmum]

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we're rudderless. These owners sacked a DoF just before a cup final, saying quite specifically that they wanted his replacement in situ well before the transfer window? Where is he? Oh, hold on...we don't want one like that any more...we want to rearrange his job description and split it between three or four specialist roles. Yeah, that's right, that's what we decided ages ago...honest. We'd say more but we've run out of room on the back of this fag packet...

Those two weeks you talk about are the start of the transfer window. At this stage we should be working on the strategy for next season, how to build on from where we are and cement the foundations for long term progress. Hell, I'd expect us to know exactly who our transfer priorities are, and be well on with approaches, negotiations etc. We have no-one in place anywhere who is in a position to undertake that very basic task.

So we appoint a whole new back room team, lets say by the end of the month, as is their latest promise? (for what that's worth). Do they then start to assess the strengths of the squad in the light of how they want the team set up? Will they have even met the squad before they can make such an assessment or are they going to rely on match of the day clips?  Are they aware say, of how well Lucas is progressing? What the long term prognosis for Gerrard and his ageing legs may be? Make no mistake, there are gaps in that squad that need plugging, and on what basis, with what insight will they be in a position to plug them?

The worst of it is, nobody filling  those roles can be sure that the owners have the first idea of the nature and size of the task they've just handed out. The owners who will judge their performance by whatever criteria they choose to set, ill informed or otherwise.

I honestly don't want to be saying this, I'd love the people in charge to be smart, informed and quietly efficient. But Peter Robinson and his ilk are long gone, and sitting back and trusting these guys isn't an option. I'll honestly, happily trust them...but only when they have proved that they deserve that trust, it sure as hell ain't going to be handed out gratis.

Spot on.

Nothing that has happened over the past few weeks at the club fills me with much optimism, and to see us at the start of an important transfer window with no footballing person in a position of authority at the club is frankly ludicrous.

While the other contenders for that (apparently) oh so important top 4 spec are busy drawing up their list of players to get, talking to agents, debating about money to spend etc, what exactly are we doing?

Showing to the world that yet again we are in disarray, scouring God knows where for a manager that will be acceptable to a bunch of Americans over in Boston, looking to fill in half a dozen important posts at the club? 

We have Ian  Ayre and Steve Clarke at the club, that is it.  Clarke apparently put in his resignation which the club refused to accept, and that is it, the sole representation of domestic based knowledge for our club boils down to a 'Yes Man' and a wannago coach.

Of course, we don't have to worry though, because it is all part of a plan and everything is hunky-dory.

[shankstheman]

Who are they to tell FSG how to run the club? On the one hand they complain that FSG listen to non-football advisors but on the other hand, SOS expect FSG to listen to them. The letter is frankly embarrassing.

I think SOS have past their sell by date.

[Liverbird 2010]

Who are they to tell FSG how to run the club? On the one hand they complain that FSG listen to non-football advisors but on the other hand, SOS expect FSG to listen to them. The letter is frankly embarrassing.

I think SOS have past their sell by date.

Oh Dear.........

[JohnHobbes]

Sorry, that's a poor way to run a club. Clarke  wanted to resign, ends up acting as proxy for prospective managers at a time when a firm hand on the tiller is required. I really don't think that's good enough for Liverpool Football Club.

Well other posters have complained we're not keeping any actual football experts in the club and relying on non-football advisers. So if they've wisely refused Clarke's resignation (being loyal to Kenny) then surely that's a good thing to keep him?

There is nothing that forces a new manager to keep Clarke when they start but having someone keeping the lights on whilst we make the changeover is never a bad thing. He would be used to advise on football matters, e.g. Gerrard's condition, Lucas's recovery, as you wanted not to be a proxy for the whole club. You argued one way and now the other. I'm confused...

[stjohn65]

There is nothing that forces a new manager to keep Clarke when they start but having someone keeping the lights on whilst we make the changeover is never a bad thing. He would be used to advise on football matters, e.g. Gerrard's condition, Lucas's recovery, as you wanted not to be a proxy for the whole club. You argued one way and now the other. I'm confused...

Lord, I'm not arguing one way then the other, I'm saying quite simply that having no structure in place is unacceptable, and hoisting Clarke up as the sticking plaster is not acceptable, don't see how that's controversial. How is it not laughable that a club of our stature considers it ok to have someone just 'keeping the lights on? Jeez, I'd apply for the job myself if that was the level we've sunk to.

[Fordy]

Who are they to tell FSG how to run the club? On the one hand they complain that FSG listen to non-football advisors but on the other hand, SOS expect FSG to listen to them. The letter is frankly embarrassing.

I think SOS have past their sell by date.

Seriously.

Only a fool would trust new owners until they've proved themselves.

SOS and anyone else have a massive right to be concerned. Most can see through them and their talk.

[Red Genius]

Seriously.

Only a fool would trust new owners until they've proved themselves.

SOS and anyone else have a massive right to be concerned. Most can see through them and their talk.

I think it's somewhat early to saying they are just 'all talk and no trousers' - so i'm eagerly waiting patiently, to see how the situation develops before i completely write them off as a bunch of wankers. But they've done little so far to instil confidence in the fan base.

If they get some good people in to replace the positions they've created, then i'll be content to see how the project pans out. But at this moment there are more questions than answers and it is that air of uncertainty that raises suspicion and worry.

[i_wun_bite]

Who are they to tell FSG how to run the club? On the one hand they complain that FSG listen to non-football advisors but on the other hand, SOS expect FSG to listen to them. The letter is frankly embarrassing.

I think SOS have past their sell by date.

you my friend are embarrassing. smh.

[Kopite B205]

Who are they to tell FSG how to run the club? On the one hand they complain that FSG listen to non-football advisors but on the other hand, SOS expect FSG to listen to them. The letter is frankly embarrassing.

I think SOS have past their sell by date.

What are you rambling on about? The letter is succinct and probes answers to the questions we as fans, need to know.

It's vital the owners are transparent and open regarding their intentions with key supporter groups like SOS. We have been burnt before by the previous regime; caution and concern is warranted and justified and we should be grateful that SOS are acting on behalf of the fans.

[anil]

Forget getting a top manager.

Chelsea hired a World Cup winning manager and the who-is-who of European football in Hiddink, Ancelotti, Mourinho and Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas.

And who won them the CL and FA Cup.  A guy who managed Milton Keynes and got sacked by West Brom.

MARTINEZ IS THE ANSWER - FACT!!

[KK Legend]

Yeah, they missed the whole fucken point

In a stereotypical American all guns blazin' fashion.
      A mate of mine, a seasie, has just told me this morning that apparently there were messages on Twitter asking fans who the new manager should be which were promptly removed under claims they were being 'misunderstood' and 'just a bit of fun'.
  I haven't or didn't see these messages for myself or indeed if they have been mentioned already on this forum, however... 'just a bit of fun'.... days after sacking Kenny Dalglish?

   FSG aren't working away quietly in the background now are they? Infact as each day passes I think that more and more eyes need cast upon them!

[JohnHobbes]

Lord, I'm not arguing one way then the other, I'm saying quite simply that having no structure in place is unacceptable, and hoisting Clarke up as the sticking plaster is not acceptable, don't see how that's controversial. How is it not laughable that a club of our stature considers it ok to have someone just 'keeping the lights on? Jeez, I'd apply for the job myself if that was the level we've sunk to.

The timing is poor that's not in doubt. However with Euro 2012 starting soon there will be no transfers with players locked away until that's over.

End of day, let's agree that until a manager is in place we won't be doing anything, so we should just wait for that appointment.

[shadowbane]

In a stereotypical American all guns blazin' fashion.
      A mate of mine, a seasie, has just told me this morning that apparently there were messages on Twitter asking fans who the new manager should be which were promptly removed under claims they were being 'misunderstood' and 'just a bit of fun'.
  I haven't or didn't see these messages for myself or indeed if they have been mentioned already on this forum, however... 'just a bit of fun'.... days after sacking Kenny Dalglish?

Do you really honestly think this is true? really? This was an online LFC "fun" thing....nothing to do with the new manager

edit* it's like people claiming Tompkins was consulted about a new manager....it's amazing the amount of bollocks and negative stuff on this site

[stjohn65]

The timing is poor that's not in doubt.

not sure that's what you were implying earlier, when it was 'hardly going to cripple and derail our season.' And if the timing is poor - which is not in doubt - then the owner's judgement is also poor. Again, that's not in doubt.
 

End of day, let's agree that until a manager is in place we won't be doing anything...

and again, that's exactly my point...that's why I'm concerned at the competence of the owners.

[Wingman]

Seriously.

Only a fool would trust new owners until they've proved themselves.

SOS and anyone else have a massive right to be concerned. Most can see through them and their talk.

What's behind their talk then Fordy? What are they hiding?

[stjohn65]

What's behind their talk then Fordy? What are they hiding?

incompetence.

[RedinExeter]

don't think it is, really. Most of those who think it's ok as things are have little to substantiate that point of view - I can't see their arguments holding much sway, since there are barely any arguments to grapple with.

Jesus, you have such an inflated sense of your own self-importance, talking about those who doubt the owners as though they're some 'enlightened' group of people who've 'seen the light'. In actual fact, you're just taking every detail about the club at this moment in time and twisting it to suit your anti-FSG agenda. For example, calling the owners 'rudderless' - surely if we were rudderless the owners would have just left Hodgson in charge and not backed the club last transfer market. It seems to me that actually, they've seen that the current rudder was steering us down the wrong path, and they're in the process of replacing it with one that they feel will lead us down the right path. If in two weeks' time, we're sat here with no manager, no DoF and no peep from the club then people will have a right to complain, likewise if this time next year we 're in the same situation stadium-wise, people will have a chance to complain but just wait, be patient, give the owners time to make the best decisions possible. Or would you prefer them to take knee-jerk decisions to appease impatient fans?

[shadowbane]

incompetence.

how are they incompetent?

[KK Legend]

Do you really honestly think this is true? really? This was an online LFC "fun" thing....nothing to do with the new manager

edit* it's like people claiming Tompkins was consulted about a new manager....it's amazing the amount of bollocks and negative stuff on this site

Just going from what I'd been told, apparently though the messages were on there...and actually days after sacking Kenny, I think it's crass and negative, and I think FSG have quite rightly started to open a few more eyes.

I hope they haven't bitten off more than they can chew!

[shadowbane]

Just going from what I'd been told, apparently though the messages were on there...and actually days after sacking Kenny, I think it's crass and negative, and I think FSG have quite rightly started to open a few more eyes.

I hope they haven't bitten of more than they can chew!

To me it's nothing more than a question for a poll....Who do you want to see as our new forward, keeper, MD etc....Yes you can argue it's crass etc and i agree a little bit of bad timing but for some people to take it as FSG being incompetent or clueless etc is just stupid. To me it's actually more just the site team being dickheads that FSG

[Gene]

Jesus, you have such an inflated sense of your own self-importance, talking about those who doubt the owners as though they're some 'enlightened' group of people who've 'seen the light'. In actual fact, you're just taking every detail about the club at this moment in time and twisting it to suit your anti-FSG agenda. For example, calling the owners 'rudderless' - surely if we were rudderless the owners would have just left Hodgson in charge and not backed the club last transfer market. It seems to me that actually, they've seen that the current rudder was steering us down the wrong path, and they're in the process of replacing it with one that they feel will lead us down the right path. If in two weeks' time, we're sat here with no manager, no DoF and no peep from the club then people will have a right to complain, likewise if this time next year we 're in the same situation stadium-wise, people will have a chance to complain but just wait, be patient, give the owners time to make the best decisions possible. Or would you prefer them to take knee-jerk decisions to appease impatient fans?

I need to see your Liverpool Supporter CV first, outlining your Anfield attendance (with dates), before I can form an opinion on your post.

[stjohn65]

Jesus, you have such an inflated sense of your own self-importance, talking about those who doubt the owners as though they're some 'enlightened' group of people who've 'seen the light'.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across like that, should have phrased it better. What I meant was that i've yet to hear a convincing argument for FSG's competence, it seems to boil down to 'trust them' and 'let's wait and see'. I don't think that's sensible for all the reasons that have already been thrashed out in this and other threads.

 It seems to me that actually, they've seen that the current rudder was steering us down the wrong path, and they're in the process of replacing it with one that they feel will lead us down the right path.

It was their rudder that was 'taking us down the wrong path.'  Now they promise us a whole new one.

If in two weeks' time, we're sat here with no manager, no DoF and no peep from the club then people will have a right to complain, likewise if this time next year we 're in the same situation stadium-wise, people will have a chance to complain but just wait, be patient, give the owners time to make the best decisions possible. Or would you prefer them to take knee-jerk decisions to appease impatient fans?

Was perfectly prepared to be patient with Kenny, with the direction he could take us. And also prepared to admit that my faith would have been misplaced had we been in the same position in - to use your timescale on the stadium issue - this time next year. It's FSG with the jerky knees. And for the record I have no agenda against them, if they turn out to really know what they are doing, and that also turns out to be in the best interests of LFC, then I'll respect them like I respect any competent business men.

[RJH]

Just going from what I'd been told, apparently though the messages were on there...and actually days after sacking Kenny, I think it's crass and negative, and I think FSG have quite rightly started to open a few more eyes.

It's not really anything to do with FSG though.
They aren't the ones who tweeted it.

Yes, you can argue that it was done by someone who works for the club, and they are ultimately responsible as owners.
But it'd be like getting a Big Mac when you ordered a Quarter Pounder and trying to hold the CEO of McNasty's accountable for the mistake.

To me it's nothing more than a question for a poll....Who do you want to see as our new forward, keeper, MD etc....Yes you can argue it's crass etc and i agree a little bit of bad timing but for some people to take it as FSG being incompetent or clueless etc is just stupid. To me it's actually more just the site team being dickheads that FSG

I agree.
If during the season they had tweeted asking people for their line-up predictions for the next game, would people have intepreted that as Kenny not having a clue what his best team was? Of course not, because it would have been fucking ridiculous.



As I've said before, I don't have a problem with people being wary of FSG. But not only is blaming them for this sort of thing silly, it takes focus away from the important areas FSG should be judged on.

[liverpoolfan1970]

What are you rambling on about? The letter is succinct and probes answers to the questions we as fans, need to know.

It's vital the owners are transparent and open regarding their intentions with key supporter groups like SOS. We have been burnt before by the previous regime; caution and concern is warranted and justified and we should be grateful that SOS are acting on behalf of the fans.

So what is it, the Liverpool way where things are done behind closed doors, or should they do everything out in the open?

The truth is, we seem "rudderless" because the media know nothing, so they are writing a bunch of BS stories about how there is a 12 man list, blah blah blah. As usual, they know nothing.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it seems SOS want regular updates. Well it's not going to work that way. Just because they don't give certain members of the community and the media (SOS, Jim Boardman and Tony Evans) updates and ask them what we should do does not mean they are poor owners.

Tony Evans was going on last night on Twitter about trophies not being important anymore, blah blah blah. The fact is there are two levels of trophies now. The bottom level are domestic cup competitions such as the FA Cup and Carling Cup. Those are the icing on the cake. The top level is the League title and the Champions League. Not only did we not come close to 4th, we were shown up by Newcastle AND Everton, both of whom spent far less than we did. Add to that the fact that we were quite poor at home, looked like shit in the league since January (and NEVER turned that form around) and you have a situation where a change is going to have to be made. Had it looked like progress was being made, Kenny stays. However, stagnation is what it looked like, and that forced the owners hands.