Topic: Why should a top manager consider coming to Liverpool Football Club?

[farawayred]

I don't think there is any risk whatsoever for a manager taking the Liverpool job.

The side came 8th this year and will do better next season. Whether Vilas Boas or Martinez or Ken Dodd took over next season I think we would come 5th and that can be described as progress and reputation enhancing.

If the side fails to build on that because of a lack of investment and reminds behind Man U, Man City, Chelsea and A.N.Other then will the manager have done so badly ?

If I was a manager on the up (Martinez) or I wanted to restore my reputation (Benitez or Vilas Boas) I think it is the perfect job. Kenny has laid down some good foundations, a few tweaks and the side will improve.

Does anybody believe we can get less than 30 points at home next season ?

I have to disagree with your risk assessment because of what FSG did, not because of your logic. Following your logic, with which I agree, Kenny did pretty well - two cup finals in one year, getting one cup and almost the other. But he wasn't offered breathing space even when it was so evident that Lucas' injury pretty much ended our season hopes. So, why would any other manager who can guide us to 5th place be cut some slack, but Kenny was shown the door? I don't think the way FSG acted suggests any tolerance for 5th, whether it makes sense or not.

The rest I agree with. As I said earlier, the next manager would probably be someone who needs to catch the last train and thus be highly motivated to prove himself. And I also believe that Kenny left good foundations. I actually think the team if far better than 8th as of now, we're up there with Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal.

[misawa98]

We had that with the king?

So what is actually changing then?  Are we seeing someone actually buying the players with no input from the Manager?

[bigbear]

whilst I agree this team should be doing better than 8th its not that straightforward. Hodgson had a team that was 6th the season before in a relegation place by xmas.  Our end of season form this season was almost relegation form. We can just as easily be worse off at this point in time next season. There seems to be real issues with mentality in this group of players and I think the new appointment could easily make things worse.

The League will be the priority this season especially early doors, after the Arsenal game we knew what competition we were in next season and just focussed on the Cups, whether subconsciously or not.

Moreover, Lucas will be playing next season and he is the heart and soul of that side and the only midfield player in the club who can hold a midield together and win a ball.

[bigbear]

I have to disagree with your risk assessment because of what FSG did, not because of your logic. Following your logic, with which I agree, Kenny did pretty well - two cup finals in one year, getting one cup and almost the other. But he wasn't offered breathing space even when it was so evident that Lucas' injury pretty much ended our season hopes. So, why would any other manager who can guide us to 5th place be cut some slack, but Kenny was shown the door? I don't think the way FSG acted suggests any tolerance for 5th, whether it makes sense or not.

The rest I agree with. As I said earlier, the next manager would probably be someone who needs to catch the last train and thus be highly motivated to prove himself. And I also believe that Kenny left good foundations. I actually think the team if far better than 8th as of now, we're up there with Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal.

If the next manager comes 5th, FSG will talk it up as improvement. He is their man.

[jonnyrich]

Good managers atract good players. Its got to be someone very well known otherwise we are going to fall further behind the way Chelsea and Manchester City are spending.

[kenworthy]

So would FSG give their manager more funds to build his vision?

2011/2012
Purchased           Fee                          Sold                       Fee   
                         
Henderson          £16,000,000            Konchesky             £1,500,000       
Adam                   £7,000,000             Mavinga                 £1,000,000       
Doni                     Free                        Bruna                     £750,000       
Downing              £20,000,000           Jovanovic               Free       
Enrique                £6,300,000             Ayala                     £800,000       
Coates                £7,000,000              Insua                    Free       
Bellamy               Free                        Kyrgiakos               Free       
Bijev                    Signed                    Poulsen                 £1,000,000       
Ward                   £100,000                 Ngog                     £4,000,000       
Meireles              £12,000,000            Ince                       Free       

Total Buys: £56,400,000            Total Sales: £21,050,000       Net:  £35,350,000

[Resurrected]

If the next manager comes 5th, FSG will talk it up as improvement. He is their man.

Aint that the truth

[stoa]

They don't want a top manager. They want someone like Martinez who will be so grateful for the opportunity he will bend to their tune.

The question I have then, is why would they want that? They're clearly not in a position to build a successful football team and would probably need a manager who knows what he's doing, but who also knows what he wants and how to get it. Why on earth would they then go out and hire someone they can tell what to do? It doesn't make sense, because for them to be successful as owners we need to be successful as a club, right?

[misawa98]

I certainly agree with how the money was spent. The big question is now though as we dont have any torres's to sell off how much of a budget will be in place for the new manager. I guess that in itself will make the job more or less attractive.

I dont think Martinez would mind if he had to work with a reduced budget but I think Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas would be going into any interview with a vision and plan and would let it be known that its going to require some real investment.

[hide5seek]

If the next manager comes 5th, FSG will talk it up as improvement. He is their man.

Yeah but the press will remind them they sacked a legend for coming 4th.

[farawayred]

If the next manager comes 5th, FSG will talk it up as improvement. He is their man.

I see. That PR angle is expected, but they will have hard time selling that to the fans. Why not just leave Kenny another season then? Logically, it makes more sense to me anyway.

[redmark]

So what is actually changing then?  Are we seeing someone actually buying the players with no input from the Manager?

I think the difference is a subtle one; the manager giving a list of players requires him to have encyclopedic knowledge of available players - why bother employing scouts? The new system may involve the manager/coach providing a list of positions and 'types' of player he wants, with the General Manager (or Scouting Director, if split in two) and the Technical Director identifying players and then discussing those with the manager. Specialist roles and decision by committee.

[G8S7]

I said it some days ago and saying it again, the fact is both Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas and Benitez or any other top manager will request a big transfer money and freedom from FSG to bring the players they want, and the owners wouldn't or don't have the money they want.
It will be Martinez or some one at his level.
Welcome to 2012 football mates.

[cornelius]

I don't think there is any risk whatsoever for a manager taking the Liverpool job.

The side came 8th this year and will do better next season. Whether Vilas Boas or Martinez or Ken Dodd took over next season I think we would come 5th and that can be described as progress and reputation enhancing.

I said exactly the same when owl face came in. I thought that it would be impossible for us to be so shite again...

I'm afraid right now I genuinely fear that some of the worst times we've known are right around the corner unless we do some really significant things this summer.

[Fruity]

So would FSG give their manager more funds to build his vision?

2011/2012
Purchased           Fee                          Sold                       Fee   
                         
Henderson          £16,000,000            Konchesky             £1,500,000       
Adam                   £7,000,000             Mavinga                 £1,000,000       
Doni                     Free                        Bruna                     £750,000       
Downing              £20,000,000           Jovanovic               Free       
Enrique                £6,300,000             Ayala                     £800,000       
Coates                £7,000,000              Insua                    Free       
Bellamy               Free                        Kyrgiakos               Free       
Bijev                    Signed                    Poulsen                 £1,000,000       
Ward                   £100,000                 Ngog                     £4,000,000       
Meireles              £12,000,000            Ince                       Free       

Total Buys: £56,400,000            Total Sales: £21,050,000       Net:  £35,350,000

35 million? rafa would have us top 4 with that.

[misawa98]

So would FSG give their manager more funds to build his vision?

2011/2012
Purchased           Fee                          Sold                       Fee   
                         
Henderson          £16,000,000            Konchesky             £1,500,000       
Adam                   £7,000,000             Mavinga                 £1,000,000       
Doni                     Free                        Bruna                     £750,000       
Downing              £20,000,000           Jovanovic               Free       
Enrique                £6,300,000             Ayala                     £800,000       
Coates                £7,000,000              Insua                    Free       
Bellamy               Free                        Kyrgiakos               Free       
Bijev                    Signed                    Poulsen                 £1,000,000       
Ward                   £100,000                 Ngog                     £4,000,000       
Meireles              £12,000,000            Ince                       Free       

Total Buys: £56,400,000            Total Sales: £21,050,000       Net:  £35,350,000

I think someone like Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas would be looking at getting £35 mil + player sales

[Litmanen10]

Whether he is a better coach is irrelevant. Good coaches are a dime a dozen. We need a leader, a figurehead, a man who instantly commands respect and who can take on the heavy hitters of the EPL and win. If I think about it the only guy who fits that criteria is Rafa

It depends how you define a good coach. Is a good coach like Tony Pulis who can guide a team to mid-table with big spending? Or Mark Hughes doing the same? I think there are not too many good coaches in the premier league. Very few in my opinion and Martinez is one of them.

I think his tactics would suit the players we have. I try to respect everyones opinion and I'm not saying Martinez is the best candidate, but given the chance to work on the long-term and being backed financially, it's hard to see him failing. Same goes for Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas or Rodgers too. And Rafa of course.

I think we are kind of in a good place now, because there are actually some very good names available and interested in coming to LFC. A year ago this was not the case and next year it might be the case again.

[ReddyMac]

Looks like a slow news day, anyone kind enough to summarize today's news/rumors?

[Surprise me.]

It doesn't matter who we get, they'll all ask for a lot of money. Purely because they want their own team. They want their own system. I hope a manager is not picked purely because he says he can do it on a budget.

[farawayred]

I said it some days ago and saying it again, the fact is both Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas and Benitez or any other top manager will request a big transfer money and freedom from FSG to bring the players they want, and the owners wouldn't or don't have the money they want.
It will be Martinez or some one at his level.

And that's the scary thought. Because unearthing a gem a la Pep Guardiola, and a gem Martinez may be, is very very rare. What do you do if it doesn't work, try again next year?

[misawa98]

I think the difference is a subtle one; the manager giving a list of players requires him to have encyclopedic knowledge of available players - why bother employing scouts? The new system may involve the manager/coach providing a list of positions and 'types' of player he wants, with the General Manager (or Scouting Director, if split in two) and the Technical Director identifying players and then discussing those with the manager. Specialist roles and decision by committee.

Thanx.  Doesnt sound that bad when described like that.

[Resurrected]

I think the difference is a subtle one; the manager giving a list of players requires him to have encyclopedic knowledge of available players - why bother employing scouts? The new system may involve the manager/coach providing a list of positions and 'types' of player he wants, with the General Manager (or Scouting Director, if split in two) and the Technical Director identifying players and then discussing those with the manager. Specialist roles and decision by committee.

Otherwise known as too many cooks.

I'm expecting us to get a lampshade when we need a table and the lampshade to get even more lampshades when he needs tables. And i don't think this is a table that will stand on 3 legs.

(see Rafa for translation)

[farawayred]

I think someone like Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas would be looking at getting £35 mil + player sales

Maybe, maybe not. Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas got his hand burned.

[kenworthy]

Apologies, had to repost because I had Meireles under purchases.

So would FSG give their manager more funds to build his vision?

2011/2012
Purchased           Fee                          Sold                       Fee   
                         
Henderson          £16,000,000            Konchesky             £1,500,000       
Adam                   £7,000,000             Mavinga                 £1,000,000       
Doni                     Free                        Bruna                     £750,000       
Downing              £20,000,000           Jovanovic               Free       
Enrique                £6,300,000             Ayala                     £800,000       
Coates                £7,000,000              Insua                    Free       
Bellamy               Free                        Kyrgiakos               Free       
Bijev                    Signed                    Poulsen                 £1,000,000       
Ward                   £100,000                 Ngog                     £4,000,000       
                                                           Meireles                £12,000,000           
                                                           Ince                       Free       

Total Buys: £56,400,000            Total Sales: £21,050,000       Net:  £35,350,000

[bigbear]

The question I have then, is why would they want that? They're clearly not in a position to build a successful football team and would probably need a manager who knows what he's doing, but who also knows what he wants and how to get it. Why on earth would they then go out and hire someone they can tell what to do? It doesn't make sense, because for them to be successful as owners we need to be successful as a club, right?

I think they want someone who is media friendly.

I think they want someone young and not too demanding or political.

I think they want someone who can work on a reduced budget in keeping with the status of a non CL team.

They will hope that their choice (in my view it will be Martinez because Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas will demand a spend) will make us challenge but in reality I think it is as much about controlling the animal and expectation that is LFC as it is seriously improving it. They can make money by controlling the spend and relying on the fanbase and their commercial skills, they are not going to gamble.

[boo76]

Maybe changing managers all the time is the new way to do it?

Just read Chelsea have had 5-6 managers since Arsenal last won a trophy, and theyve won 10 trophys in that time.
We have won 2 trophies with 3 managers since that time
Arsenal have won 0 trophys but still have the same manager.

Makes you think doesnt it? (the figures might not be accurate, but are around that)

[plasterered]

2011/2012
Purchased           Fee                          Sold                       Fee   
                         
Henderson          £16,000,000            Konchesky             £1,500,000       
Adam                   £7,000,000             Mavinga                 £1,000,000       
Doni                     Free                        Bruna                     £750,000       
Downing              £20,000,000           Jovanovic               Free       
Enrique                £6,300,000             Ayala                     £800,000       
Coates                £7,000,000              Insua                    Free       
Bellamy               Free                        Kyrgiakos               Free       
Bijev                    Signed                    Poulsen                 £1,000,000       
Ward                   £100,000                 Ngog                     £4,000,000       
                                                           Meireles                £12,000,000           
                                                           Ince                       Free       

Total Buys: £56,400,000            Total Sales: £21,050,000       Net:  £35,350,000





that doesn,t even take FT into account,

look at what city have spent since the new owner came in and they "ONLY JUST" "JUST" managed to wrestle the title away from utd who,s revenue strems are scary.

so if we want to be 2 or 3 places of them, the owners need to rethink their strategy for the premier league. They may have been ok coming in for moores say in 2000 but not now not in this age

[bigbear]

Yeah but the press will remind them they sacked a legend for coming 4th.

Who was that ?

[redmark]

Looks like a slow news day, anyone kind enough to summarize today's news/rumors?

De Boer firm rejection.
Deschamps "expects" to stay where he is.
Villas-Boas "in no hurry" to take a new job.
Bookies odds suggest Rodgers isn't out of it.

[USC19Babel]

Yeah but the press will remind them they sacked a legend for coming 4th.

Going to assume you meant not coming 4th.

We won 6 games out of the final 19 in the league to finish 8th, ahead of Fulham on GD.

That's different than not finishing fourth

[plasterered]

Maybe changing managers all the time is the new way to do it?

Just read Chelsea have had 5-6 managers since Arsenal last won a trophy, and theyve won 10 trophys in that time.
We have won 2 trophies with 3 managers since that time
Arsenal have won 0 trophys but still have the same manager.

Makes you think doesnt it? (the figures might not be accurate, but are around that)

but when it comes to title winning stability, in recent years only arsenal and utd have a decent standing - the only two clubs with long staying managers

[bigbear]

Is spending 35 million as new owners of a club of Liverpool's size and turnover in your first 3 windows anything out of the ordinary ?

I don't think so.

[G8S7]

And that's the scary thought. Because unearthing a gem a la Pep Guardiola, and a gem Martinez may be, is very very rare. What do you do if it doesn't work, try again next year?

Yes it scares me as well, they should not play that game with liverpool fans, they will dig its own grave.

[USC19Babel]

but when it comes to title winning stability, in recent years only arsenal and utd have a decent standing - the only two clubs with long staying managers

Huh? Chelsea have won the league 3 times since the last time Arsenal did.

[stuarta]

what outlay in figures do you mean, its around £50 or £60 net aint it teams like Everton and Liverpool have to sell to buy, most managers do, it would be nice to ADD some quality to the squad the teams doing the balancing act like us are a plenty in the league so maybe we dont look such an attractive project after all

nt
FSG have laid out 37 Million of their own cash in 18 months, allot but not a massive amount for a re building job, how much profit would the club have made in that period to balance that investment anyway?

[farawayred]

Why do people think that Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas will ask for a big spending? He didn't do that at Porto (well, he spent by Portuguese standards, but not lavishly and had some excellent players in the team). He may have requested spending at Chelsea, but any manager would. When you go to an interview with Roman Abramovich, you expect caviar and vodka (or Dom Perignon), when you interview with John Henry, you should expect a burger.

[Resurrected]

nt
FSG have laid out 37 Million of their own cash in 18 months, allot but not a massive amount for a re building job, how much profit would the club have made in that period to balance that investment anyway?

To be fair, i think the issue is the cost of wages, not the transfer budget.

[bigbear]

To be fair, i think the issue is the cost of wages, not the transfer budget.

The wages have probably been reduced and by the end of this summer they will most definitely have been reduced.

[plasterered]

Huh? Chelsea have won the league 3 times since the last time Arsenal did.

No see - take mourine,s success out of the equation because he had the initial gigantic roman millions to build a title charge plus he is prob the best around on paper. that aside Chelsea have struggled with nearly every other manager after him who inherited his players exactly what our new boy will be doing inheriting someone else tools. Chelsea 9 managers in 8 seasons ?

so thats irrelevant

[redmark]

Otherwise known as too many cooks.

I'm expecting us to get a lampshade when we need a table and the lampshade to get even more lampshades when he needs tables. And i don't think this is a table that will stand on 3 legs.

(see Rafa for translation)

Do you think Bob Paisley didn't discuss transfer targets in the bootroom with his coaches and with Geoff Twentyman? It's formalising a process that clubs use to a large degree anyway; you don't expect the manager to be unearthing unknown 16 year old gems across the world while managing the club on a daily basis. The key is for the three people involved to have a good working relationship and have the same general ideas about the way the team plays and what players it needs.