Topic: Ian Ayre outlines the way forward (*)

[TipTopKop]

And this is why we are back at the lieks of Martinez and why it doesnt make sense.

If you offered Martinez 5 years with the aim at building a team, no pressure on for fourth, i could understand that notion even if i didnt like his appointment.

But FSG will want him to come in and EXPECT a fourth place finish next season. Completely unrealistic with a 30million budget, inexperienced young manager used to staving off releagtion at the helm.

Assuming they would go with Martinez, that would be a huge concern indeed.

[MobileBayRed]

This interview is another colossal blunder on the part of FSG and Ayre.  They cant get out of their own way right now.

[Red Scouse]

We didn't buy in January because they knew Kenny was a dead man walking.

Appears that way. Couldn't understand why we didn't sign anybody at the time, makes sense now.

[The Grinch]

And this is why we are back at the lieks of Martinez and why it doesnt make sense.

If you offered Martinez 5 years with the aim at building a team, no pressure on for fourth, i could understand that notion even if i didnt like his appointment.

But FSG will want him to come in and EXPECT a fourth place finish next season. Completely unrealistic with a 30million budget, inexperienced young manager used to staving off releagtion at the helm.

Finishing 8th with a top four budget is an underachievement. As Moyes has proved finishing 7th with a top ten budget is a fantastic achievement. If we slash the budget, reduce the wage bill and Martinez finishes between 6th and 8th that would financially be better for FSG. Far better to have profitable managed decline than to go chasing the likes of City, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea and lose money.

[NigelManx]

For money wasted, we have to thank the two cowboys for throwing £45m away on a new stadium. Two very very good European players for that. Sheesh.

Did they throw away £45m..I wouldnt say so....45m might show as gone on the stadium but I think it might be in someones pockets...allegedly!!

second thing  ..is amortized? writing off an amount over the length of someones contract?

[Bangin Them In]

This interview is another colossal blunder on the part of FSG and Ayre.  They cant get out of their own way right now.

Understand what you're saying, but nothing will sound good to LFC supporters at the moment, damned if they do, damned if they don't

[Gnurglan]

He also dismissed talk of a crisis following the recent departure of so many high-profile officials which has left Liverpool with no manager, no director of football, no head of sports science, no commercial director and no head of communications.
 
...
Ayre says lessons have been learned from the damaging Luis Suarez-Patrice Evra race row which Dalglish was left to deal with publicly. The Scot was heavily criticised for his fierce defence of the striker in the wake of the FA’s guilty verdict.
 


“I wouldn’t go as far as to say the manager’s job will only be a training ground role but absolutely the idea is to create a structure so that the manager doesn’t need to focus on too much else.
 
“You want the manager to be focused on getting the best out of his team. But what it absolutely isn’t about is bringing players in without the manager’s input.
 
“In the past a manager would be going to look at 20 or 30 different games just to find one player. Whereas with the right structure someone lines all of that up and the manager is just going to the final interview.
 
 
“It was a very simple decision based on results and did we believe that was going to change,” Ayre said. “To be 37 points off the winner, 17 points off fourth, 14 losses…..
 
“Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full.
 
“The Carling Cup and The FA Cup don’t generate the revenue and the success that is needed to keep investing. If you want to be successful, you have got to keep investing. People don’t want to hear that football is a business. They want to see us put lots of money into the football team and win lots of trophies and games.
 
The Manager becomes a Coach, no Director of Football, Indivdual ares of responsibility delegated to managers which means promotion for Rodolfo and Pep!

This will have a considerable influence on who might be selected as the new manager.

Looks to me he is missing the main point. That we have no structure. And we are bringing in people from everywhere (I would imagine we won't buy a whole set of management team from some place else) to create "our" way. He's missing the fact that we had someone here only a few days ago that had links back to our glory days. Instead of building on that, we're looking everywhere else for it.

The Suarez thing, I was not impressed with how we dealt with that. We let Kenny and Suarez take the hit. At least Kenny tried to stand by his man. We could have handled things better, but I'd rather have a manager who backs his man (in particular as we then officially said Suarez had done nothing wrong) than one who is afraid of everyone.

As for the manager being a coach... reminds me of "as always I'm focused on coaching my team..." In other words, we want a manager with a restricted role. And a whole group of experts around him. Nice thought, but I don't believe in it. I'd much rather have a fairly strong manager, who can go to talk to a DoF figure and get advice or exchange ideas, than a middle management type of figure.

That the FA Cup wouldn't have saved Kenny's season is worrying. Sure, we were dreadful in the league, but we have it the wrong way now. Trophies first, money second. Now we think money first and trophies second. It's wrong. I know the importance of CL, but for a club to target money rather than trophies, it's the wrong approach.

I'm concerned with the direction the club seem to take. We're becoming short-sighted and there is talk about the Liverpool way, but we our actions are rather the opposite of what I'm hoping for. We think we can create a team of experts all at once. We have no real respect for the time it will take to get all those things to work. At the same time, we are desperate for the success here and now. And we want, what it seems to me, a weaker type of manager in charge.

I'd want Kenny in a DoF role (as an untouchable, respected advisor), traditional scouts and a strong manager. It's like on the pitch. I'd prefer leaders over passengers. People with character, that I can rely on when the going gets tough. Because it will get tough. It remains to be seen what we go for, but our upper management team have put the club in a bit of a mess and they'll have to fix it. I don't feel confident that they will.

[CraigDS]

Is an interesting piece and don't really see too much wrong with what he has said, although maybe the bit about the Cups and 4th etc. wasn't needed.

It certainly appears a plan has been in place for a while and FSG weren't happy with a large number of positions at the club and how it was being run. I definitely think splitting the role of Comolli up to a number of people is a much much better idea in the long run and if they are filling some of those internally so much the better also. However I don't really make the assumption the article did that this means Rafa would not fit in the role but that remains to be seen.

One thing he didn't mention is a 'football man' helping to run the club, a Barwick for example. Not sure what sort of role you'd call it as not really a CEO role as such with Ayre being an MD.

[Red Scouse]

All this wind from Ayre just makes me more convinced I'm right not to trust anyone who forces Kenny Dalglish to leave.
Where is the evidence of their footballing knowledge? All they've shown so far is that they can oust people from the club. They were meant to be media-experts, with connections. The press has had a field day with us all season - where was the backup from them?
If 4th was so important, why not the 2 necessary signings in January - a goal-tapper-inner and proper cover for Lucas. We got nothing, and no suggestion we even looked.
Suarez-Evra? They were all for it, at first, when they thought it was easy points to be got, it now seems. It got tricky, they went quiet, and then Kenny had to say sorry - for what?
But now they're serious businessmen? Really. Do serious businessmen interview 12 people for a job, or a role, if they actually know their business? Or do they do that when they don't have a clue what they're looking for? (It's no. 2).
I'd love to know who these top football people advising them are, but I'd not hot coffee near my mouth when I heard. Can David Dein and Brian Barwick straighten Kenny Dalglish out on football matters? Or do their names just alliterate without the need for King to be added? Does alliteration now matter a lot in top business?
I'd think it more likely they chucked Kenny out because he tried putting them straight on football matters, and they don't like being put right on anything.

So, it's done. The more I hear from them the more I think they have no ideas.

Spot on, can't disagree with any of that.

[kcbworth]

It was glaringly obvious that we needed a holding midfielder and a striker in January. At that time we had a good chance a winning forth but FSG didn't have the foresight to back Kenny and give him some money to spend in order for us to of won forth.

First I've heard of that?!?

[JohnHobbes]

Did they throw away £45m..I wouldnt say so....45m might show as gone on the stadium but I think it might be in someones pockets...allegedly!!

second thing  ..is amortized? writing off an amount over the length of someones contract?

We saw over and over again reports on the amounts H&G had spent on architects before ripping up the plans and starting again, money spent on prep work, etc... Very much doubt there is any truth that FSG have stolen it. If you're alleging H&G took it then that's a different kettle of fish and considering their past actions...?

[kcbworth]

If 4th was so important, why not the 2 necessary signings in January - a goal-tapper-inner and proper cover for Lucas. We got nothing, and no suggestion we even looked.

Perhaps this is why Kenny and Commolli are no longer here? Not sure this can be blamed on owners?

[Paulie's Wallnuts]

Perhaps this is why Kenny and Commolli are no longer here? Not sure this can be blamed on owners?

Nail on head.

[macca888]

"This club exists to perenially finish in any of the top 4 positions and the bags of cash that come with it. Winning will be great, but it's not the most important thing in the world."


That is what football has become and ultimately what we've become, like it or loathe it. They say romance is dead, but it's not really. Well at least the sex part of it isn't if that's what your ultimate ambition is. We've deluded ourselves that when we find a nice girl, we want to ride off into the sunset like Prince Charming with Sleeping Beauty and live happily ever after. But is that really what we want? If we listen to the serotonin it does, but if we're guided by the testosterone, we're really just thinking "Phwoar, I'd give her one!"


What Ayre has said today equates to this; it doesn't really matter whether when you're in a night club you bag the real fairy tale beautiful princess or just manage to tap for her slightlier uglier, slightly more rotund, but infinitely more achievable lady in waiting. As long as you're grinding your fun size Mars Bar into the side of her leg at the ten to two slowies, as long as you're waltzing home with her for a quick shot at her runners up spot, that'll do nicely thank you very much. Even God forbid, you can't pull her mate, you had better make sure you have a go for either Sharon and Tracy, the two skullery maids on the sidelines nursing their WKDs through a straw and waiting to pounce on anyone in pants. Because if you miss out on one of those two sure things, you're not the stud muffin anyone thought you were. And woe betide if you find yourself shuffling home on your own with a bag of chips with the only scrap of comfort being a quick one thrown over your thumb before you fall asleep. That is definitely not romance, even the sex part of it, and nobody wants to be mates with a calloused fingered loser.


Bollocks leading brain they might call it, but is that really any different to heart ruling head? Us fans want the complete once upon a time; the best performances and the trophies, the league and the Champions league. We want it all, but the reality is that owners these days, all owners not just ours, will happily settle for top four every year and just to be in with a chance to win the league or the Champions League. The powers that be have decided that Cinderella might be the ultimate in fairy tales and they'd love and cherish her if they got her, but they'd fuck her wicked stepmother and both the ugly sisters sideways every day of the week if it meant they'd get a crack at her.

[lobsterboy]

This interview is another colossal blunder on the part of FSG and Ayre.  They cant get out of their own way right now.

Pandering to the SKY gods. Soul is sold.

[lobsterboy]

Finishing 8th with a top four budget is an underachievement. As Moyes has proved finishing 7th with a top ten budget is a fantastic achievement. If we slash the budget, reduce the wage bill and Martinez finishes between 6th and 8th that would financially be better for FSG. Far better to have profitable managed decline than to go chasing the likes of City, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea and lose money.

Wasn't that what Tom n' George were doing?

[Heighwayondawing]

I wish people would stop mentioning Rafa. He's got about as much chance as Hitler. They want a fresh, young, media friendly face, someone like Martinez, preferably with the Scouse Heartbeat of the club playing Batman to the manager's Robin. They need to sell a lot of Warrior kits and Lebron trainees. Is Kenny leaving Melwood with his carboard box and his replacements arriving, going to be the first installment of the new reality show. They'll love all that in the US and Asia. Not so sure about Anfield and Kirkdale, or down Scotty and the likes. But hey, us locals with our quaint notions of history and tradition, are only getting in the way of their brave, brand new vision.

This Is Anfield... No. Sorry, not no longer it isn't. And whatever the fuck it is they intend to make of it, they can keep.
There won't be any new stadium. We need to maximize the revenue, so silly aul duffers like me are only getting in the way. They need all them seats for the new customers and consumers. Well, they're welcome to them. Someone ring Purslow, sorry, Ayre up, and tell him... best start putting out the plastic flags and sheets with the words to YNWA on now. They're gonna really need them before too long.

I know too well how you feel mate. I know you've got no time for baseball as a sport (rounders and all that) but being born and raised in The Bronx, NY, I've been through this song and dance before with the Yankees. You grow up loving your home team with all of your heart, you spend countless hours and dollars on the obsession and then the businessmen who know nothing of the history, the fans or the sport move in and decide its time to really rake it in by appealing to the "upper crust". To hell with the lifers and locals, they can't afford to lease luxury boxes and all that. Imagine hundreds of grown men reduced to tears as they smashed in the walls of the cathedral that was Our Yankee Stadium in the name of progress. Imagine losing seats that have been in your family for 40 years because you refuse to pay a fucking license fee just for the right to buy season tickets that go up in cost year after year. As professional sport becomes soley about the money, clubs lose their identity and any real connection with the supporters is tossed aside. There is just no time for silly locals who want to live in the past, but what they're missing is that the past is what enabled them to get into the money making position that they are in! Sadly, the only way to change the current climate is a complete protest, no matches, no television, no kits, no nothing. Unfortunately, there are thousands of know nothing, Johnny come lately types queued up to take your spot.

My advice is this and it is genuine and may seem defeatist in nature, so please don't take it the wrong way or think me condescending. Make it about the sport, even if only in your mind. Ignore the peripherals. Change is inevitable whether we want it or not. They don't care about us, so why give them a second thought. After all, the sport is what we love, not the business side although the two are sometimes inseparable.

I know you love this club and you're hurting, but don't let them take it away from you.

[.Mike]

Finishing 8th with a top four budget is an underachievement. As Moyes has proved finishing 7th with a top ten budget is a fantastic achievement. If we slash the budget, reduce the wage bill and Martinez finishes between 6th and 8th that would financially be better for FSG. Far better to have profitable managed decline than to go chasing the likes of City, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea and lose money.

Dalglish was the 8th highest paid manager in world football. That isn't a top ten budget.

[MobileBayRed]

Understand what you're saying, but nothing will sound good to LFC supporters at the moment, damned if they do, damned if they don't

They need to keep their mouths shut right now and go about their business.  What happens if they bring in Pep or Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas or Martinez and he finishes 5th next year with no cup wins.  Can we assume that the manager will be sacked?  Based on Ayre's comments, I think you would have to expect it right?  What manager is going to take this job with a CL qualification as the minimum acceptable performance?

They made a very unpopular decision.  I have explained in another thread why I think it was a terrible decision.  Now they want to placate the fanbase, but all they have done is open up another can of worms.  They need to quit talking at this point.

[The Grinch]

Wasn't that what Tom n' George were doing?

It's pretty much what all the American owners have done the Glazers, H&G, FSG and Lerner all made an initial spend on players and then reigned in the spending and looked to cut costs.

[kcbworth]

Far better to have profitable managed decline than to go chasing the likes of City, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea and lose money.

What you on about Al? Is that your opinion (I know it's not, but you just made it up)? I'm certain that's not the owners opinion.

[CraigDS]

It's pretty much what all the American owners have done the Glazers, H&G, FSG and Lerner all made an initial spend on players and then reigned in the spending and looked to cut costs.

Didn't wages go sky high under G&H (and Purslow)? Hence the need to cut them right back now.

[Redrider]

Who is running the club? Who is determining the policy?
Some of this Ian Ayre statement makes sense, some is nonsense and the rest is just ill-considered.
The club is being run from the otherside of the Atlantic, with all the direction coming from Boston, although Ian Ayre tries to project that it is some form of transatlantic committee, he is in fact just operating as their Liverpool post-box.
Rafa will never be appointed as manager within the current framework, in the absence of any real management in Liverpool Rafa would be far too powerful for Ian Ayre to handle and for that matter so would any other top flight Football Manager, hence the invitations to new boy's like Martinez and Rodgers, who are seen as pliable material.
If Werner is the real Chairman, then he needs to get over here with a home on Merseyside and live and breath LFC on a daily basis, this is not a job for absentee management.
I fear for the future and fully expect Ian Ayre to be the next mangerial fall-guy, when the 'bottom line' figures and the misguided expectations of the Yanks are not met.

[KirkVanHouten]

Finishing 8th with a top four budget is an underachievement. As Moyes has proved finishing 7th with a top ten budget is a fantastic achievement. If we slash the budget, reduce the wage bill and Martinez finishes between 6th and 8th that would financially be better for FSG. Far better to have profitable managed decline than to go chasing the likes of City, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea and lose money.

This has scared the shit out of me.

[redmark]

Finishing 8th with a top four budget is an underachievement. As Moyes has proved finishing 7th with a top ten budget is a fantastic achievement. If we slash the budget, reduce the wage bill and Martinez finishes between 6th and 8th that would financially be better for FSG. Far better to have profitable managed decline than to go chasing the likes of City, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea and lose money.

That model (which I don't believe for a second the owners are planning) is only a financial improvement if you assume that our existing revenues would stay the same over a prolonged period of mediocrity. They wouldn't. Our commercial revenue would tail off, particularly once the big name shirt sellers retire or move to more ambitious clubs. It also depends entirely on assuming that every utterance the club makes is a lie. You seem able to do that.

[mulfella]

This has scared the shit out of me.

Its a ripping yarn alright. One for Tales of the Unexpected.

[MichaelO]

He didn't say the cups didn't matter, he pointed out that it's impossible for this club to be run in a way that enables us to consistently challenge for trophies unless we are regularly in the CL, 'otherwise we'd be dipping into our own pockets' or however it was he put it.

He's right. It's one or the other - we either run as a club outside the CL hoping to get in over time - and drastically cut the wage bill, and immediately cull players we can't afford like Gerrard - or we try to get back into it sharpish, because we're already running CL level wages, and certainly don't have any chance whatsoever of challenging for the league without the actual CL money to underwrite those wages.

Of course the cups matter, but to these owners, the cups don't matter as much as financial sustainability.

You're right mate. But people will read things as they suits them. He never said domestic cups don't matter... but what he said is that the FA/League Cup aren't generating enough revenue like the CL does. If we wish to compete with the boys then Champions League participation is essential and the way forward.

[kcbworth]

Starting to get pissed off with people inventing stupid shit now. Ok so they removed a popular manager which I agree isn't really TLW, but... wtf does that have to do with their ambition or financial strategy? Seriously? Wtf? People seriously drawing the conclusion that through this they somehow want us to be less successful? Huh? I seriously don't think that shit should be allowed on here!

[Holwing Fantod]

Odd that two days ago everyone here was barracking FSG for saying nothing.  Now they've outlined their structure and future plans (as everyone demanded) and they need to 'shut their fucking gobs'?  They can't win for losing.  I think everyone needs to decide what they want - do they want mealy-mouthed statements about tradition and The Liverpool Way that relate nothing at all to the reality of modern football or what's needed for success, or do they actually want the owners to talk honestly about what they believe to be important and necessary for the kind of title-winning success we all want? They could easily just pay lip-service to notions of the Carling Cup being a fantastic achievement, or they could talk about signing Snoogie Doogie, or some other nonsense that relates nothing at all to their actual plans.  What they've done here is outline precisely what they think and what they are looking to for the future. 

FSG didn't make football the way it is, they've come into compete in the environment that's existed for two decades.  If you're bemoaning the attitude they exhibit then I suppose you haven't been paying very close attention to football for all of that time (or really what the beloved Rafa clearly believed in).  A lot of this is just reactionary frothing that ignores reality and recent history in favor of having a moan.  Sort yourselves out, if we want to ever win the league again we have to play catch up to what the majority of our competitors accepted long ago.  FSG haven't said anything more than that. 

[NigelManx]

We saw over and over again reports on the amounts H&G had spent on architects before ripping up the plans and starting again, money spent on prep work, etc... Very much doubt there is any truth that FSG have stolen it. If you're alleging H&G took it then that's a different kettle of fish and considering their past actions...?

No way I was saying FSG had anything to do with the 45m.....but considering past actions..........!!

[Entropicity]

"Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference"

I think everyone is overreacting to this out of context.

I believe Ian meant winning the FA Cup would not have affected the decision to dismiss Kenny because the league finishing position was the benchmark on whether Kenny would keep his job.

Most of you guys are taking this to mean "Winning the FA Cup is not important".

[redtel]

Top 4 has been the new Cup winners for over 10 years now.

Manu didn't even enter the FAC one season and Wenger and Arsenal  havn't won anything for 6 years but both are operating on huge income and wage outlays as they have been in that top 4 consistently.

I hate that footy has gone like this but we have to face the reality that it has. Either stump up the big money each summer to watch 19 games or walk away from the greed fest that it has become. Not an easy choice if you have been attending for 40 or 50 years as many have.

FSG took advice when appointing Commoli as DOF and nothing convinces me that their choices now will work out any better. We need the right man inside Anfield with a vision and football experience, and then we can be more optimistic.

[richard_lfc]

“Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full."

I'm sorry Ayre, but that is a ridiculous comment. Basically saying trophies don't count.

To start a project, you need good grounding , a base to start from. Trophies motivate players.

Look at Man City, they won the FA Cup last year and now the Premier League.

[CraigDS]

“Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full."

I'm sorry Ayre, but that is a ridiculous comment. Basically saying trophies don't count.

To start a project, you need good grounding , a base to start from. Trophies motivate players.

Look at Man City, they won the FA Cup last year and now the Premier League.

No he didn't, he said the result of that one game did not determine what happened to Kenny, i.e. win or lose he was getting sacked due to the form in the league.

[JohnHobbes]

“Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full."

I'm sorry Ayre, but that is a ridiculous comment. Basically saying trophies don't count.

To start a project, you need good grounding , a base to start from. Trophies motivate players.

Look at Man City, they won the FA Cup last year and now the Premier League.

He meant that after reviewing the season in full winning the FA cup was still not enough for them rather than saying it didn't count. Sheesh.

[regnaD kciN]

I guess I'm most surprised by the frank admission that the FA Cup wouldn't have saved Kenny's job.  Is this being said with 20/20 hindsight, or did Ayre know back then that the decision had already been made?  Did Kenny?

The whole thing seems odd to me -- granted, here in the U.S., we're well familiar with "the dreaded 'vote of confidence'" being prelude to a sacking at season's end, but it seems more unusual for someone like Werner to still be telling the media that they were sticking with Kenny for the long term merely days before the Cup final, if he was indeed Dead Manager Walking by then.  In a way, it confirms my suspicions that maybe there was a split in FSG, with Henry wanting him out and Werner in favor of giving him another year.  In such a scenario, I could have told you, there would be only one winner...and it wouldn't be Werner.

Still, even if Ayre isn't projecting the current decisions back on the past, this strikes me as an unfortunate interview.   Devotees of the King aren't going to be happy seeing him written off in this way.  Having a financial/marketing administrator (which is really all Ayre is) given a secure job and placed in a position to tell us the way forward doesn't seem a very good message either.  And the appearance of shifting from FSG's previously-preferred model of a strong DoF ranking above the manager hierarchically to one where, now, they've apparently decided to spread the DoF job over a number of mostly-unfilled positions sure makes it seem that FSG, as opposed to the previous vision of them having a structure decided upon and being resolved to implement the whole thing now, are rather in disarray as to a whole new structure that hasn't yet been fully figured-out, right at the point were we need stability in a matter of weeks if not days.

I would only add that the (*) forced me to think out all of the above, instead of just writing "I'd call Ayre a weasel, but that would be an insult...to weasels."   

[JackWard33]

The problem is its all just words and when its all just words it comes down to whose saying them.
Does anyone really believe Ian Ayre can deliver any of what he's saying he's tasked with delivering?
Right now there isn't a person at the club with the knowledge, leadership, football acumen, business acumen or contacts to do an extremely difficult job - let a lone a team of them.

Its fine to say we expect top 4. It rubs me up the wrong way too to say thats more important than winning but at least that means we all know where we stand. But its not fine to be set up to fail. If you reduce the wage bill and spend 20 million a season net (or whatever) then you're not making the top four and its utterly unreasonable to make that the standard by which you measure performance

[KirkVanHouten]

"Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference"

I think everyone is overreacting to this out of context.

I believe Ian meant winning the FA Cup would not have affected the decision to dismiss Kenny because the league finishing position was the benchmark on whether Kenny would keep his job.

Most of you guys are taking this to mean "Winning the FA Cup is not important".

In what other context can this be meant though? He is saying if Kenny won the FA cup he still would have been sacked, saying that making the champions league was the only thing that mattered. That's the attitude they are going to take into every season, the manager is not going to be putting any effort into winning the FA cup because apparently winning a cup won't make a difference. What he has said effectively says that the cups aren't important to them. Every time he opens his mouth he is coming across as a bigger bellend.

[Bill Bob Kenny]

Seriously think a lot of peole on here are jumping to the wrong conclusion about the importance of winning cups.  I thin k they still want to win cups, they jusy dont want to be outside the top4.  and I would say that Kenny would have surviced if we where outside the top 4 but not when we where 17 points away.

However you look at it the Premier League is the most important competition we are in, and we failed miserably this season.

 

[KirkVanHouten]

Top 4 has been the new Cup winners for over 10 years now.

Manu didn't even enter the FAC one season and Wenger and Arsenal  havn't won anything for 6 years but both are operating on huge income and wage outlays as they have been in that top 4 consistently.

I hate that footy has gone like this but we have to face the reality that it has. Either stump up the big money each summer to watch 19 games or walk away from the greed fest that it has become. Not an easy choice if you have been attending for 40 or 50 years as many have.

FSG took advice when appointing Commoli as DOF and nothing convinces me that their choices now will work out any better. We need the right man inside Anfield with a vision and football experience, and then we can be more optimistic.

Yeah but what the fuck do they have to show for these past 6 years? Nothing apart from the fact that they have had more money to buy players who don't win them anything.

The second bit in bold I agree with, I hope they aren't listening to the same people.