Topic: How FSG have handled the leaving of Dalglish.

[Pure Blood Red]

Let's face it there was never going to be a right way to handle letting Dalglish go,me myself am devastated,I'd championed the return of kenny for years and always thought he should have been brought back after souness or Evans,I'm only 29 so I've basically spent the best part of twenty year's wanting kenny back,giv or take a few good years under houllier and Rafa.We've played better football for the last eighteen months than what we had done in the eighteen months prior to that,there was clear progress,two cup finals and a manager who more than just fits&understands us.so I conclude that fsg have handled this extremely badly because ther never should have been anything to handle,at least not after another half decent transfer kitty and a season to tweek the wee problems,8th place does not give credit to the season we've had and the squad that was being assembled,I just hope that gag get it right and prove me wrong  so my kids don't grow up supporting a mid table team.

[DyingAtheist]

Don't really have a problem with much of this post except we have two baseball fans sacking a club legend without any understanding of the game or the club. Now they may feel they have an understanding after 18 months but they don't. It isn't something written down, you can't really read all about it especially when 80% of your time is spent watching baseball and 95% in the good 'ol US of A. They may even have asked expert advice - but the one expert they hired they had already sacked - so its unclear who that has been from - is there anybody out there who knows LFC better than Kenny?

So sure they may have a plan but the question would be whether its worth the software its written on.

The previous 'encumbants' (pardon pun) sought out Jurgen Klinsamn to advise them a nice lad by all accounts but clueless about managing in the premiership, and clueless about LFC.

We currently have a club with no structure, no comms, no DoF, no manager and we are just about to enter the transfer window having undertaken a massive restructure in the last and with no real understanding of whether another is required in this one.

Exactly who will advise them of who to hire?

Keeping things behind closed doors is relatively easy when no ones inside them I guess.

We have a Director of Comms.
We're interviewing for a new manager.
I suspect interviews have already been conducted, or will be done so shortly, for DOF.

I get that everyone's frustrated over how Kenny was treated and that he was sacked, but let's not descend into stupidity here. FSG aren't idiots, they know how to run a business and they know what's required.
I'd rather they take at least a week or two to get a manager instead of just jumping on the first one who says "Yes".

[liverpoolfcmike]

They've handled it pretty well as far as I'm concerned: reportedly offered him two resignation packages but Kenny was never going to walk. They made a strong, executive decision.

It's the supporters who aren't handling it well.

[isildurrr]

left a bad taste for sure.

we don't know what happened though.we don't know the reasoning and whether it was unintentionally leaked.

i'd wait to see the structure they will put into place before judging them.

[chuckberry]

This sets the boundaries. If you are a club legend then 8th gets you sacked. I imagine that nothing less than 4th will get anyone else sacked. Good luck Roberto Martinez with that one. Better not sign any long term managers.

[Carolina Red]

Don't really have a problem with much of this post except we have two baseball fans sacking a club legend without any understanding of the game or the club. Now they may feel they have an understanding after 18 months but they don't. It isn't something written down, you can't really read all about it especially when 80% of your time is spent watching baseball and 95% in the good 'ol US of A. They may even have asked expert advice - but the one expert they hired they had already sacked - so its unclear who that has been from - is there anybody out there who knows LFC better than Kenny?

So sure they may have a plan but the question would be whether its worth the software its written on.

The previous 'encumbants' (pardon pun) sought out Jurgen Klinsamn to advise them a nice lad by all accounts but clueless about managing in the premiership, and clueless about LFC.

We currently have a club with no structure, no comms, no DoF, no manager and we are just about to enter the transfer window having undertaken a massive restructure in the last and with no real understanding of whether another is required in this one.

Exactly who will advise them of who to hire?

Keeping things behind closed doors is relatively easy when no ones inside them I guess.

Well, we know from prior reports that FSG have consulted Cruyff as well as Dein, and hired Barwick back in Feb (I think) to perform a review of the club itself.

[Pure Blood Red]

Ahh yeah the circle of trust,if fsg replace kenny with Martinez its going to be hard to argue that ther not idiots,we placed a lot of trust  in the previous owners and although I do not want to mention them in the same breath as fsg let's just be careful before giving out all our trust again

[DyingAtheist]

This sets the boundaries. If you are a club legend then 8th gets you sacked. I imagine that nothing less than 4th will get anyone else sacked. Good luck Roberto Martinez with that one. Better not sign any long term managers.

Frankly, being a club legend should not impact on whether he's given more time or not.
He SHOULD have been given more time because he clearly deserved it, not because of his status in our history.

Sometimes we have to put things like this aside, for the good of the club. Kenny understood that more than anyone.

[Vulmea]

We have a Director of Comms.
We're interviewing for a new manager.
I suspect interviews have already been conducted, or will be done so shortly, for DOF.

I get that everyone's frustrated over how Kenny was treated and that he was sacked, but let's not descend into stupidity here. FSG aren't idiots, they know how to run a business and they know what's required.
I'd rather they take at least a week or two to get a manager instead of just jumping on the first one who says "Yes".

We have a director of comms - who's that?

You haven't said on what basis our baseball guys are going to select the people they'll hire?

With all due respect I dont think I'm remotely qualified to select a DoF or a manager for LFC - I doubt anybody on this forum is either but I'd back my judgement over JW/TW every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

If there is a plan then wouldn't the DoF come first? That is if there is a DoF but who would decide even that? The DoF presumably selects the manager so who's interviewing who?

If two successful Brits (yes there are some) came into the Redsox from running a top club, sacked the staff and then said trust us we've got a plan, we'll hire the right man, we've read some books, spoke to some experts and it worked ok in football,  what would the Red Sox fans response be?

Very easy for intelligent people to overestimate their understanding and underestimate the details.

It would be reassuring to know who is advising them, well reassuting depending on who that is

[Billy The Kid.]

FSG claims Kenny was to get Liverpool into the top four. He didn't and coupled with quite a few terrible results, off he goes.

I keep seeing this being branded about across the main board in the various threads relating to Kenny. There seems to be a misconception that Kenny was sacked due to the fact that we simply didn't finish 4th. That is rather wide of the mark if you ask me. I don't recall FSG ever demanding that we finish in the top 4. They merely expressed that they wanted us to challenge for the top 4. Hence the "aim" was top 4. It was never a case of "minimum requirement must be top 4". There's a difference, hence I think it's important not to confuse the two.

Had we finished within 5 points of 4th then you could say we put in a decent challenge. Had it been 7 or 8 points you could still probably hold some semblance of optimism for breaking into it next year. At 10 points you're now stretching it a little. At 12 to 13 points you kind of need to start admitting that a gap such as that is way off the "aim". And at 17 points behind (which is where we came) then it becomes pretty apparent that we didn't get remotely close to our "aim" of challenging for 4th at all.

In my opinion, I don't think Kenny was sacked for not achieving 4th, he was sacked due to the magnitude of our failure in getting even remotely close to 4th, and that is a differentiation that really needs to be made here if you ask me. And the scale of that failure is probably what cost him his job. As for how it was done, I think if Henry and co had intentions of removing Kenny from his post then they could have at least told him shortly after the cup final when they were in the country

[Statto Red]

Dissapointed that Kenny has been sacked, but lets face it if it was any Manager other than Kenny who presided over the season we've just had, everyone would be calling for his head. Yes the Carling Cup win was satisfying as was the FA Cup run, however we shot ourselves in the foot in the League, our home record, 6 wins from 19 games is appauling, & some performances like last Sunday shocking.

[smicer07]

Dissapointed that Kenny has been sacked, but lets face it if it was any Manager other than Kenny who presided over the season we've just had, everyone would be calling for his head. Yes the Carling Cup win was satisfying as was the FA Cup run, however we shot ourselves in the foot in the League, our home record, 6 wins from 19 games is appauling, & some performances like last Sunday shocking.


Shame Kenny didn't have the grace to take a job upstairs, when he was offered it.

The grace to take a job upstairs? Fucking grace?

[regnaD kciN]

The problem is, the only way to handle it better is to convince the manager that it would be better for him to move upstairs at this time, and get him to "resign" at the same time they announce his "promotion."  Unfortunately for style points, Kenny wasn't having any of it, believed he should get more time on the sideline, and made it public before the meeting.  He basically was saying "none of this P.R. story -- keep me or sack me, but I won't help put a pretty face on the latter."  So, they sacked him.  End of.

Overall, I'd say it was handled badly because our Legend has gone from being the face of LFC to having no affiliation with the club whatsoever.  But what other choice did FSG have, given the stand-off?  Back down, and say "well, since we'll wind up looking like the villains if we sack him, we better give him the rest of his contract?"  I can't see any ownership doing that if they thought a change was necessary and, if they did, it would probably guarantee an unpleasant season or two at Anfield, as ownership, IMHO, would be unwilling to spend much to help out someone whom they saw as having defied them, and would probably be looking at any opportunity to remove him the minute the form dipped further.  Not a good way to run a football club, IMHO.

[DyingAtheist]

We have a director of comms - who's that?

You haven't said on what basis our baseball guys are going to select the people they'll hire?

With all due respect I dont think I'm remotely qualified to select a DoF or a manager for LFC - I doubt anybody on this forum is either but I'd back my judgement over JW/TW every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

If there is a plan then wouldn't the DoF come first? That is if there is a DoF but who would decide even that? The DoF presumably selects the manager so who's interviewing who?

If two successful Brits (yes there are some) came into the Redsox from running a top club, sacked the staff and then said trust us we've got a plan, we'll hire the right man, we've read some books, spoke to some experts and it worked ok in football,  what would the Red Sox fans response be?

Very easy for intelligent people to overestimate their understanding and underestimate the details.

It would be reassuring to know who is advising them, well reassuting depending on who that is

Director of Comms is suspected (Pretty much confirmed) to be Jen something, Jen Chang. I don't know. The forum's gone mad.

Regardless, in terms of "the plan" it's not really a case of hiring the DOF first, and then Manager, and then DOC etc. in order of importance. If we acted like that we'd only get our hiring done by the end of summer. They'll be looking at every position simultaneously, as shown by the hiring of the Director of Comms whilst it's shown that we're also interviewing managers.

I know it'd be reassuring to get more information, to know who's helping them etc. but the fact is we clamoured for years to have a more "in house" approach to the club, and frankly, the less information that's leaked the better. Sure it may not do much good for our health as supporters, but it's right for the club in the long term.

[DyingAtheist]

Shame Kenny didn't have the grace to take a job upstairs, when he was offered it.

I'm not going crazy like most of the forum, though it pains me to see Kenny go.

But that, sir, is a fucking ridiculous post.

[soxfan]

We've played better football for the last eighteen months than what we had done in the eighteen months prior to that

I'm not picking on you, because 100 different posters have said it, but did we really? I keep reading "we played brilliant football at times".  Look, WBA played inspired football at times, so did Wigan, Everton, etc. But do we want to be any of those clubs? We finished 8th, which means we played a lot of shitty football too, much of which I unfortunately remember. 

Sorry for going on a tangent.

[barnseysleftpeg]

I actually believe that the owners aren't in to short terminism and can be accepting of failure. I mean they only sacked Terry Francona (ex coach of the Red Sox) after fours years of non success.  In Kennys case I think the problem was that he wasn't their man as in they wouldn't have hired him under normal circumstances and I presume doesn't tick their boxes of what they want in manager.  So they've taken the first opportunity they could to get away with it and gotten rid.

I think they had a certain plan they wanted to implement but that got put on the back burner due to the startling form we showed at the back end of last season. They probably regretted the decision to give Kenny the three year contract and are now going to implement the original blueprint they had drawn up

This all just my opinion of course.

[Vulmea]

Well, we know from prior reports that FSG have consulted Cruyff as well as Dein, and hired Barwick back in Feb (I think) to perform a review of the club itself.

Sorry CR - didn't see this

We dont know though do we - we were told Cruyff said he was too busy and Dein said he was doing a tour of prem grounds. there have also been rumours  that Barwick provided some consultancy but it has not been confirmed about what, given he's a football administrator I'd hope it was about football administration, the suarez debacle in particular and little else.

As I said it would be nice to know and although Cruyff would be a step up from Klinsman he has no experience of LFC or the Prem.  It would be the equivalent of going to the head man at the Yankees and saying how do you think we should structure the Red Sox.

[Carolina Red]

Sorry CR - didn't see this

We dont know though do we - we were told Cruyff said he was too busy and Dein said he was doing a tour of prem grounds. there have also been rumours  that Barwick provided some consultancy but it has not been confirmed about what, given he's a football administrator I'd hope it was about football administration, the suarez debacle in particular and little else.

As I said it would be nice to know and although Cruyff would be a step up from Klinsman he has no experience of LFC or the Prem.  It would be the equivalent of going to the head man at the Yankees and saying how do you think we should structure the Red Sox.

Well, you're right, we don't "know." But where there's smoke...

And as a Yankees fan, I can confirm that the the FSG Red Sox did look to the Yankees on numerous issues, most notably modeling their highly profitable television network on the Yankees' YES network. 

[Vulmea]

Director of Comms is suspected (Pretty much confirmed) to be Jen something, Jen Chang. I don't know. The forum's gone mad.

Regardless, in terms of "the plan" it's not really a case of hiring the DOF first, and then Manager, and then DOC etc. in order of importance. If we acted like that we'd only get our hiring done by the end of summer. They'll be looking at every position simultaneously, as shown by the hiring of the Director of Comms whilst it's shown that we're also interviewing managers.

I know it'd be reassuring to get more information, to know who's helping them etc. but the fact is we clamoured for years to have a more "in house" approach to the club, and frankly, the less information that's leaked the better. Sure it may not do much good for our health as supporters, but it's right for the club in the long term.

its not that simple - as I said the detail is everything - the DoF and the manager have to share a vision - they have to be joined at the hip for it to work - you are hiring a managment team not two individuals - given their strategic role and their interaction with the Board I'd have thought the DoF comes first and the manager is hired to fit with that vision to do it the other way round gives far too much importaance to the manager role for FSG's structure - its also further removed from the general manager/baseball model.

This model is not typical for the UK so it'll need special attention anyway. Of course there may not be a DoF at all - there may just be a Head of Recruitment who reports to the manager - but again this is unlikely.

Telling the fans who is advising two greenhorns is not about keeping things indoors its about giving FSG some credibility currently the dont have any.

[steveeastend]

So far they made a lot of mistakes which hurt them probably the most. An experienced owner would have sacked Roy right away, no european owner with a little bit of understanding of the game would have opened the cheque book for spending 40m on players like Henderson and Downing and I cannot imagine the Torres/Carroll swap happening with experienced football people in charge. They just didn´t know better and a lot of people made good profit, let´s just hope the people advising them weren´t involved in that.

Same with the communication policy which was very small time during the departures of Torres and Meireles and, I have to say now, with the way it was communicated with the sacking of Kenny.

I don´t think that a member owned club is the end and all best solution but at least you get open and thoughtful P.R. as it´s clear the fans/member wouldn´t like to be fooled around.

Considering all this, a man like Rafa, experienced, powerful football person through and through, covering for management, coaching and DoF would probably be the best solution.

[Vulmea]

And as a Yankees fan, I can confirm that the the FSG Red Sox did look to the Yankees on numerous issues, most notably modeling their highly profitable television network on the Yankees' YES network. 

looking to and asking their head man for advice are slightly different aren't they

[MobileBayRed]

Why the decision to sack Dalglish was so incredibly, egregiously wrong: (one silly little man's opinion).

1.  In my mind, one issue is of singular importance to LFC over the next 12 months.  So much so that all other issues pale in comparison.  This issue is the Anfield redevelopment/new stadium issue.  This issue even dwarfs CL qualification next year.  Why?  LFC and its directors must sort out the long term revenue stream for the club.  The Standard Chartered and Warrior deals are excellent starts, but you cant base the revenue foundation of the club on short term contracts.  I personally believe that if this issue is not resolved in the next 12 months you will see FSG sell the club.  The stadium is the key to long term stability and growth of the club.  Given that FSG purchased LFC at a reduced (almost comical) price, they could walk away next summer without losing any money.  I dont want to say that next years league is irrelevant, but honestly in terms of LFC development it is amlmost immaterial.  We are not going to be relegated next year.  We probably wont qualify for CL next year unless a strong capital outlay is put towards buying players.  FSG arent going to invest that kind of money in players until they know whether the stadium issue can be resolved.  So realistacally, we can expect to finish somewhere between 5-7 next year, regardless of who is the manager.

2.  Regardless of whether it can be nicely put into words, supporters of LFC hold dearly to the idea of "The Liverpool Way".  It is what sets us apart from all other clubs.  From John Henry's initial interviews, I really believed that he understood this concept, even if he didnt completly grasp the details.  However, the one person in the world who not only understands "The Liverpool Way" but lives and breathes it is Kenny Dalglish.  For goodness sake, the man steered us through the darkest hour of LFC history (and quite possibly the darkest hour any professional sports team has ever endured).  If I am correct about point 1-above, who else would you want at the helm of LFC when it is making the most important decision of the next 50 years of LFC history.  Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas may be a tactical genius and a great manager, but he knows fuck all about the importance of Anfield or the cultural ramifications of this decision.  By sacking Kenny now, they have insured that not only will an outsider be at the helm of the club when this decision is made, but that Kenny will not have any advisory role at LFC.  Just a brutal thought.

3.  In addition to points 1 & 2, Henry and Werner have now created a PR nightmare that was clearly unnecessary, and have alienated the support of its core patrons. 

4.  I will admit that this season was disappointing, but part of the disappointment is based upon the comments of Henry and Dalglish before the season when they proclaimed that the goal was Top-4.  What a complete and utter blunder those comments were.  Why not come in and say that LFC has been crashed upon the rocks by two incompetent owner and will take some time to restore.  Sell low, buy high.  Tell the fans that top-4, one year after purchase is an unrealistic goal and that we are here for the long term.  By making those comments at the beginning of the year, FSG painted themselves into an untenable position.  However, as bad as this season was, I truly believe that our end of the year table position is not an accurate reflection of where LFC is in its rebuilding process.  I fully beleive that if we dont make a single change to our squad going into next year, I would expect us to improve by at least 2 places.  If we made modest moves this summer, I think we could challenge for 4th.  To guarantee a top-4 finish would require significant player acquisitions.  I dont think any manager is going to change this equation.  I expect that we will finish 4-6 next season, without even knowing who our manager will be or what players will come into the squad.

5. Keep Dalglish and focus on putting the backroom in Order.  Let Dalglish handle this summer's transfers.  Take your time with finding the right DoF.  Put your advisors in place with Kenny at the helm this year.  Let him improve on last year's results.  Let him advise and assist the club with regard to the stadium issue.  Let him retain his legend status.  Avoid the PR nightmare and the backlash of the supporters.  A year from now either the stadium issue will be resolved and FSG can then set about putting a long term manager in place with the advice of the DoF and other directors or FSG can cut their losses and move on.  Either way, at the end of next season, Kenny can ride off into the sunset having once again navigated the club through troubled waters, adding to his legacy.  The risks of something drastic happening next year are minimal and not significantly decreased by hiring a new manager.

Instead, FSG threw a grenade at the club and decided that now was a good time to start rebuilding.  What a waste.  Henry always talks about long term sustainability, but every major decision he makes is based on "WIN NOW".  Silly that they dont have the patience to actually do what they say.

[Zappa]

The whole problem was caused under H&G; God alone knows why in the death throes of their unsavoury tenure the buffoons we had running the club got rid of Rafa for the abysmal RH. To me Rafa was past his sell-by date but there was no point doing anything – other than out of spite at that time.
KD was as much a knee-jerk as RH.  Love the man but he was never the right choice.

I’ll give you three points to ponder.

You can’t relive the past (and this is the huge albatross around our supporters necks – what we were, we are not now)  Wallowing in the self-pity of what might have been is pointless
What the Fenway group do next will be what defines how they deserve to be regarded; If they respond with their original blueprint with a new structure supporting a young promising forward thinking manager, it deserves support. These are businessmen and it is not in their interests to fail.
The insanity of “football Manager” game “knowledgeable “ fans is horrifying. We haven’t got endless funds; we never just bought success in the past. IF a young William Shankly or Bob Paisley or Matt Busby turned up, you lot would howl with disapproval – no real experience of big clubs, no track record – probably no badges.

In the short term I despair at the splintering of our fanbase

[shall78]

How have FSG handled the leaving of Dalglish?

In all fairness how would anyone handle sacking a man so loved by millions of Reds all over the world, let alone the 40,000+ who grace Anfield each home game? First things first rightly or wrongly depending on your view, they have relieved Kenny of his duty and when you make a call like that you have no easy way of doing it, the club shop and site is full of the number 7's iconic image they too know how much he means to us all. Point is they made a call on it, they have cleaned house and appear to want to begin again, at least one small mercy they have time to bring in new management before the season starts.

It was handled, enough said, body blow delivered, no one was ever going to dethrone the King in a graceful manor, the only way would have been if Kenny had decided to step down.

Guess now if they bring the right man in we will all look back at this and unanimously say how brave FSG were and that they knew what they were doing, if they get it wrong we will all be waiting to tell them I told you so and calling for them to leave us a lone and pray for an Arab family to buy us with a sovereign wealth fund, or set up a group for us to run and buy the club. 

I for one will only truly know the answer to this question come the first kick of the season and final whistle in May.

[KopMcGinty]

Whether the decision was right or wrong shouldn't detract from how they have handled it having made their choice.  Personally I am gutted and thought another season was needed but..

The decision was made to look elsewhere.  Having made that choice, they have acted decisively.  They have acted quickly and given the club time to sort things before the new season.  Kenny himself has been quite magnanimous over things and I am happy to follow the Kings led on this score.  They could have agonised over what they surely knew would be an unpopular decision.  They could have dithered before acting or worst they could have kept Kenny on despite not actually wanting to, either of which could have been a disaster in the making. 

Whether they should have sacked Kenny or not, whether they should have spent so much with the King at the helm if they weren't going to give him at least a couple of years is all up for debate and I am having trouble reconciling those two issues if I am honest.  I just think its fair to say they have handled the situation as well as they could having made the decision they did.

[Lusty]

Out of interest what are the serious mitigating circumstances?

I agree with the rest of your post btw, well said.

Well I purposefully didn't expand on that because I didn't want it to sound like excuses and derail the thread.  But off the top of my head I think the injury to Lucas and the lack of action in January to sign a replacement and/or the striker everyone could see we needed didn't help.  There was quality available, maybe the lack of activity points to a loss of faith in Kenny/Comolli already by that stage?  I also think the cup runs had a negative impact on the league form, players were saving themselves for the big games and we don't yet have the squad to be able to cope with that.  And despite all of the activity last year, the net spend was not nearly enough to get us back in the top 4 considering how far backwards we have gone, and especially considering the reduction in the wage bill.  And lastly, the Suarez affair hurt us, and I think Kenny got seriously hung out to dry.

That's my opinion though and I realise each of those points is debatable in its own way.  And that this thread is probably not the place to do it.

[Reds and Revs]

Assume you have decided that Comolli and Dalglish have not done a good job and you need to move in another direction.
(I personally would have given Dalglish another year based on Lucas effect, Suarez ban, # of posts hit, Carroll/Henderson improvement at year end).

You certainly don't fire Dalglish mid-season or talk to another manager while he is still employed.

I think you would also hire a new manager after you hire a new DoF or technical advisor (whatever the structure). If you want that type of structure, mgt needs to approve of the new manager selection, and not be sidled with another's selection.

The rub is that this now needs to get done fairly promptly with an important summer transfer period coming, and to assure players that you want to keep.

That said the timing of Comolli's and Dalglish's  releases don't suprise me.

Communication's director can be filled before the season.

[vivabobbygraham]

Director of Comms is suspected (Pretty much confirmed) to be Jen something, Jen Chang. I don't know. The forum's gone mad.

Regardless, in terms of "the plan" it's not really a case of hiring the DOF first, and then Manager, and then DOC etc. in order of importance. If we acted like that we'd only get our hiring done by the end of summer. They'll be looking at every position simultaneously, as shown by the hiring of the Director of Comms whilst it's shown that we're also interviewing managers.

I know it'd be reassuring to get more information, to know who's helping them etc. but the fact is we clamoured for years to have a more "in house" approach to the club, and frankly, the less information that's leaked the better. Sure it may not do much good for our health as supporters, but it's right for the club in the long term.

DOC is not a football appointment and a side issue. I have no doubt FSG are being advised by someone this side of the pond. I would be really nervous if that wasn't the case. They seem to be keeping whoever it is under wraps to avoid him becoming the target of the present shit storm over the sacking of Kenny. Also, these interviews that are now ongoing; who is chairing them? Of course, conference calls notwithstanding, Ayre will be making the appointments but the clandestine DOF or whatever title he holds, will be in on the meetings, probably holed up in some swanky Hotel.

Kenny is no fool. He would have seen it coming hence the trip out to Boston rather than wait for the axe. He gambled, he lost, snake eyes. I'm not sure whether they would have offered him a job upstairs, they will wait to see if the new man wants Kenny's shadow hovering over him as with Busby at United. Again, they would not know that, but a seasoned football fellah would. The decision stinks but the delivery of it is acceptable to me and by all accounts, Kenny.

I do have serious concerns regarding Ayre. He is beginning to make my flesh crawl and should go back to what he does best when the manager decision is made. I would rather us have a CEO with clout in the sport and full executive power over here.

What comes first the chicken or the egg? If you are going to have a DOF position with autonomy over all football matters then he must be appointed before the manager, in fact, he must appoint the manager, surely? If we have Henry and Werner over there, listening to advise from moneyball type people a la Comolli before making decisions we are in serious shit. They are too smart not to have learnt their lesson from that appointment hence my view that they have someone in place already.

Finally and emotionally I believe whoever made the decision has made a monumental mistake and I hope to Christ it does not absolutely rip the guts out of the local fanbase. I care not a jot for the global implications. My club is a brand now and while I'll support it forever, it's not of Liverpool anymore. It doesn't belong to me or this City but is part of a glossy property portfolio. The auld arses have been put to the sword, their champions slain and to the victors the spoils.

[cowtownred]

Vulmea,  some excellent posts on this thread.

For our American posters, its ok to defend FSG, but in my eyes, the sacking of a man whose legend they cannot comprehend..despite the rhetoric.. has damaged them beyond repair in this Football Club.

Its fine to talk of their business acumen, their dollar earning (as did Ponzi and Goodwin I suppose...is that a success?).

But does the ability to leech money out of society equate to success, in any other field?

Their decision making at this Club has been appalling so far. Appalling.

They have done absolutely nothing clever so far.

Dalglish should not ever have been appointed in the first place, if they had any foresight as to what might happen.  I'm no sage, but they made a rod for their backs. It was always going to result in what they will get now...hatred at worst, resentment at best.

How could such brilliant minds not foresee that??

If they DID sanction the high cost signings we made....why did they do that?  Did they take advice?  Did they want to appease us fans?  However its painted, they blew a lot of cash with no appreciation of how the money was spent.... its questionable about their judgement.

They have made claims about future, stadium, building, running the club 'not from afar', and there is no evidence, whatsoever, they intend to keep any of those promises. After 18 months.

They have fired half the appointments they made.  What does that tell an average Joe about their ability to make sensible decisions?

What about their fanfares to meet the Supporters representatives. Fail.




I guess if I was an assessor, I would score Kenny Dalglish at 6.5/10 from his 18 months.  But knowing his past record at school, I might advise Kenny to knuckle down, you can easily get 8 or 9 in the next 2 years.

Henry and his merry men?  I might just say, you've really not lived up to what you said, have you? All fur coat and no knickers. In fact, I'd recommend you reconsider whether you're good enough to be at this school...  I might give you another year to prove you aren't a waster.   So far, its 3 or 4/10.

   

[Hinesy]

soxfan... I said 'seeming' lack of strategy. Now whilst I do like things to be kept in house, Dalglish's appointment was partly a way of currying favour with the fans, and I know it matters to the owners what the fans think, especially given the last lot.
So it wouldn't of taken much for them to say "We have parted with Kenny, thank him blah, and would like to reassure the support that we have a strategy in place which includes a shortlist of several high profile candidates etc"
Instead some claim they hadn't approached anyone which is madness and some claim Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas had been spoken to a fortnight ago. Either way, again, I say its not the fact he was sacked, its the manner in which he went I have a problem with.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Well they've been pretty ruthless about things.

On a philosophical point it's funny to reflect that the only reason FSG are here are to make wads of cash - how? By maximising our revenue across the world as we have a massive global following. And why do we have such a big following? A huge part of the credit is directly due to what Kenny did for this club in the 80's, first as a player then as a manager.

They say you always kill the thing you love.

[cowtownred]

Well they've been pretty FUCKING TRIGGER HAPPY AND A BIT FUCKING STUPID about things.

On a philosophical point it's funny to reflect that the only reason FSG are here are to make wads of cash - how? By maximising our revenue across the world as we have a massive global following. And why do we have such a big following? A huge part of the credit is directly due to what Kenny did for this club in the 80's, first as a player then as a manager.

They say you always kill the thing you love.

Just amended that a little.

[AJ4Seven]

Well they've been pretty ruthless about things.

On a philosophical point it's funny to reflect that the only reason FSG are here are to make wads of cash - how? By maximising our revenue across the world as we have a massive global following. And why do we have such a big following? A huge part of the credit is directly due to what Kenny did for this club in the 80's, first as a player then as a manager.

They say you always kill the thing you love.

I disagree with the wads of cash line,here are far easier ways of making money than by investing in football (regardless of how "cheap" we were at the time).

[cowtownred]

And another thing.

How very DARE they make unrealistic targets for a brand new manager coming in to 'steady the ship' as they now conveniently put it?

Fucking know-it-all yet know-nothing cnuts.

Have a look you bellends.  We were on our knees, hours from administration, best player left, competing with steady, in place teams.  Its no coincidence that, Chelsea apart, all the teams who ended above us were established, structures in place for at least a few years, and mostly spent good money.

What the fuck right did they have to make demands in the first year?

Strikes me their ''due diligence'' was no more thorough than that of the numpty Moores/Parry in the first place.  So forgive me if I question your intelligence, Mr Henry.  You might have loads of dosh, but you really aren't that smart on your performance so far.

And with that I better go to avoid the inevitable ban.

[ALANM]

I personally feel pretty bad about all this. Having offered him a contract last summer, they should have given him at least 2 seasons to let new players gel.

If the next manager fails to finish top 4 in his 1st season then will he be sacked? Are we going to be the next Newcastle firing managers left, right and centre?

[John C]

How do you view so far the handling of the sacking of Kenny Dalglish?
It's not about if but how?

Firstly do we take Kenny's word that its been handled to his own satisfaction and perhaps he knew what action was required to truly take this club forward? If not and we assume Kenny is being graceful you still have to wonder at what point the owners minds their made up.

On one hand they've been swift to ensure the action they desire is carried out, but how long will it take for us to see the outcome of their choice. If they haven't planned sufficiently the delay or decision could be crucial if not crippling.

If the only people on their list to interview is Martinez and Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas then to me this wreaks of narrow-mindedness, lacks vision and smacks of trendyism. Where is this big blueprint containing a big plan to attract a big manager to win us that big trophy and to attract big investment.
Did it rest in Wigan?

I understand its difficult to keep secrets in football and if they sounded out a club, any club in Europe, for a chat with their manager it may have made premature headlines - but this is the type of situation that's prevalent in football. They are considering a man that's been sacked for not making a team gel and a man that only made his team gel in April. Where is the leadership, planning, thought-process and policy making?

So having half-arsed decided that a lesser person should fill Kenny's boots, why fly him over there - was that ultra politeness to simply put the options to Kenny when they'd only seen him a week earlier and by all accounts he knew the consequences before he boarded the plane anyway.

Swift yes, but backed up with an ambitious strategy - no.

Seriously, I want to respect and be right behind our owners, I'm even prepared to ignore the perhaps wise words of anguish from SOS, and give the owners the benefit of the doubt. But I can't say they are handling this very well.

On a final note I'd like to make my own point that I don't agree that a DoF is essentially long term post, you must have accountability. And at that level of supposed business expertise with a certain amount of football knowledge people will still make misjudgments - often which are unforgivable.

Put it another way, we've had Trevor Brooking & Howard Wilkinson et al siting as pseudo DoF's overseeing a plethora of activities of football in this country but we're still fucked.

[ALANM]

And another thing.

How very DARE they make unrealistic targets for a brand new manager coming in to 'steady the ship' as they now conveniently put it?

Fucking know-it-all yet know-nothing cnuts.

Have a look you bellends.  We were on our knees, hours from administration, best player left, competing with steady, in place teams.  Its no coincidence that, Chelsea apart, all the teams who ended above us were established, structures in place for at least a few years, and mostly spent good money.

What the fuck right did they have to make demands in the first year?

Strikes me their ''due diligence'' was no more thorough than that of the numpty Moores/Parry in the first place.  So forgive me if I question your intelligence, Mr Henry.  You might have loads of dosh, but you really aren't that smart on your performance so far.

And with that I better go to avoid the inevitable ban.

Think your 'due diligence' paragraph is a little harsh, but I agree with everything else you say. They've damaged their own credibility IMO, and they have a lot of work to do to restore it.

[AJ4Seven]

I personally feel pretty bad about all this. Having offered him a contract last summer, they should have given him at least 2 seasons to let new players gel.

If the next manager fails to finish top 4 in his 1st season then will he be sacked? Are we going to be the next Newcastle firing managers left, right and centre?

I think if we had finished closer to 4th or hadn't completely collapsed in the 2nd half of the season Kenny would still be in a job, but we didn't seriously compete for 4th & I think that was probably the final straw.

[5bigears]

Why the decision to sack Dalglish was so incredibly, egregiously wrong: (one silly little man's opinion).

1.  In my mind, one issue is of singular importance to LFC over the next 12 months.  So much so that all other issues pale in comparison.  This issue is the Anfield redevelopment/new stadium issue.  This issue even dwarfs CL qualification next year.  Why?  LFC and its directors must sort out the long term revenue stream for the club.  The Standard Chartered and Warrior deals are excellent starts, but you cant base the revenue foundation of the club on short term contracts.  I personally believe that if this issue is not resolved in the next 12 months you will see FSG sell the club.  The stadium is the key to long term stability and growth of the club.  Given that FSG purchased LFC at a reduced (almost comical) price, they could walk away next summer without losing any money.  I dont want to say that next years league is irrelevant, but honestly in terms of LFC development it is amlmost immaterial.  We are not going to be relegated next year.  We probably wont qualify for CL next year unless a strong capital outlay is put towards buying players.  FSG arent going to invest that kind of money in players until they know whether the stadium issue can be resolved.  So realistacally, we can expect to finish somewhere between 5-7 next year, regardless of who is the manager.

2.  Regardless of whether it can be nicely put into words, supporters of LFC hold dearly to the idea of "The Liverpool Way".  It is what sets us apart from all other clubs.  From John Henry's initial interviews, I really believed that he understood this concept, even if he didnt completly grasp the details.  However, the one person in the world who not only understands "The Liverpool Way" but lives and breathes it is Kenny Dalglish.  For goodness sake, the man steered us through the darkest hour of LFC history (and quite possibly the darkest hour any professional sports team has ever endured).  If I am correct about point 1-above, who else would you want at the helm of LFC when it is making the most important decision of the next 50 years of LFC history.  Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas may be a tactical genius and a great manager, but he knows fuck all about the importance of Anfield or the cultural ramifications of this decision.  By sacking Kenny now, they have insured that not only will an outsider be at the helm of the club when this decision is made, but that Kenny will not have any advisory role at LFC.  Just a brutal thought.

3.  In addition to points 1 & 2, Henry and Werner have now created a PR nightmare that was clearly unnecessary, and have alienated the support of its core patrons. 

4.  I will admit that this season was disappointing, but part of the disappointment is based upon the comments of Henry and Dalglish before the season when they proclaimed that the goal was Top-4.  What a complete and utter blunder those comments were.  Why not come in and say that LFC has been crashed upon the rocks by two incompetent owner and will take some time to restore.  Sell low, buy high.  Tell the fans that top-4, one year after purchase is an unrealistic goal and that we are here for the long term.  By making those comments at the beginning of the year, FSG painted themselves into an untenable position.  However, as bad as this season was, I truly believe that our end of the year table position is not an accurate reflection of where LFC is in its rebuilding process.  I fully beleive that if we dont make a single change to our squad going into next year, I would expect us to improve by at least 2 places.  If we made modest moves this summer, I think we could challenge for 4th.  To guarantee a top-4 finish would require significant player acquisitions.  I dont think any manager is going to change this equation.  I expect that we will finish 4-6 next season, without even knowing who our manager will be or what players will come into the squad.

5. Keep Dalglish and focus on putting the backroom in Order.  Let Dalglish handle this summer's transfers.  Take your time with finding the right DoF.  Put your advisors in place with Kenny at the helm this year.  Let him improve on last year's results.  Let him advise and assist the club with regard to the stadium issue.  Let him retain his legend status.  Avoid the PR nightmare and the backlash of the supporters.  A year from now either the stadium issue will be resolved and FSG can then set about putting a long term manager in place with the advice of the DoF and other directors or FSG can cut their losses and move on.  Either way, at the end of next season, Kenny can ride off into the sunset having once again navigated the club through troubled waters, adding to his legacy.  The risks of something drastic happening next year are minimal and not significantly decreased by hiring a new manager.

Instead, FSG threw a grenade at the club and decided that now was a good time to start rebuilding.  What a waste.  Henry always talks about long term sustainability, but every major decision he makes is based on "WIN NOW".  Silly that they dont have the patience to actually do what they say.

"silly little man"
I think not!!!