Topic: The King is gone, long live the next one and good luck...

[timmyonions]

The way Ian Ayre is talking, I'm worried that the manager, whoever comes in, will have very little power. I know he's saying they can concentrate on the team and they will have final say over signings, but seriously it's sounding like the manager will have very little say on how the club is run from now on and that'sm worrying. I don't want the club to be turned into a business again.

[/b]

Sorry to burst yer bubble but eh.....

[Fordy]

I am concerned a manager is being valued by age and not ability.

Yeah cause they want to control him.

Then they will use this moneyball rubbish to say we're going young - however it just means that they don't want to get the best players and won't spend what it takes to get to the top.

If you read between the lines you will see bull shit.

[Reeves]

Martinez or Rogers?
Martinez for me if it were one from those two

[TSC]

Is how I see it. "oooh, we really want Guardiola, but all we could get was Martinez". Rather like how my dad explained it when we were kids "I really wanted Sophie Loren, but I ended up settling for a farmers daughter from down off the mountains. She had her own milking stool".

Reminds me of a few yrs back when Spurs announced they'd 'nearly' signed Rivaldo or something when he was at his peak.  When in reality he'd driven past white hart lane one day.

[Reeves]

I am concerned a manager is being valued by age and not ability.

Tis a worry

[Twelfth Customer]

But even giving him 100+m to spend on players doesn't always mean its going to work. Have a look at this season.
So he gets the money and we finish 8th. Off goes Martinez with a payoff and we are down another 100m and in the same position.

Thing is mate, the patience you are preaching extends to us the fans and not just the trigger-happy boardroom. Are we willing to see a 5-year-plan out? Are we going to accept perhaps 2/3 years out of the CL?

[21stCenturySchizoidMan]

As its been pointed out many times over the 200 odd pages. Their are example of managers who have been sacked and/or relegated before getting their big break and gone onto be league winners at that club who took a chance on them(Benitez, Klopp, Rijkaard etc)

There's no guarantee any manager would do well at Liverpool. Not even if we appointed Pep. I understand that in the world we live in people need a 'name' but for me the most important thing is the next coach is hungry, ambitious and has a desire to take us back to the top. That they 100% believe in the structure FSG want in place.

Exactly my point. Nice to see some sense in a sea of reactionary bollocks.

[Stanfo]

Boston have obviously gone down the road to a young coach, that Bobby Valentine must have had a fucking hard paper round.

[Mr Rossi]

But even giving him 100+m to spend on players doesn't always mean its going to work. Have a look at this season.
So he gets the money and we finish 8th. Off goes Martinez with a payoff and we are down another 100m and in the same position.

Didn't say it did did I? I just said that was one of two ways they could go. That or be patient wth him.

[TSC]

That is a revealing interview. Fordy was right about his role and influence.

Things have came up all rosy like for Ayre out of all this.

[lankyguy007]

[/b]

Sorry to burst yer bubble but eh.....

Sorry, I meant that the club as a whole will be run with more concern as a business rather than the football

[helmboy_nige]

Look, I know that names like Martinez and Rodgers are not making people ultra-excited but get a grip.  Was Shankly a world famous manager when he came to us?  No.  Did Paisley, Fagan or Dalglish have any 'proven' managerial experience?  No.

I'm not for a second saying that our next manager will come close to the legend of these 4 men, but Liverpool have rarely been a team that sign 'big name' managers.  We look for the right candidate.

[Fruity]

Thing is mate, the patience you are preaching extends to us the fans and not just the trigger-happy boardroom. Are we willing to see a 5-plan out? Are we going to accept perhaps 2/3 years out of the CL?

The simple answer is no. We did it with rafa and did it with Kenny. If anything I think fans will get more impatient.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Things have came up all rosy like for Ayre out of all this.

Too rosy like. Bet he's patting himself on the back.

You know, we all thought Ayre was the only good thing the tumors brought into the club.

[Reeves]

Whilst the appointment of a young manager may seem sexy, when it comes to motivating a group of players, on the whole young men, I'm sure they'd look up more to an older manager/father figure. Being bossed around/encouraged by a man your age could be difficult to take. I reckon this was one of Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas's problems at Chelsea.

[Mr Rossi]

Thing is mate, the patience you are preaching extends to us the fans and not just the trigger-happy boardroom. Are we willing to see a 5-plan out? Are we going to accept perhaps 2/3 years out of the CL?

I think we are goin to have to be. Dont think there are any quick fixes to this at all. I'd be happy with us finishing 5th or 6th next season and maybe winning a cup or two, then pushing on from there. As that would show progress, show that atlast we are moving in the right direction. I'm probably alone in that thinking though.

[Ron]

Roberto Martinez seams like a decent bloke who can work miracles with a small team, collecting some huge scalps this season.
I hope he can do it for us too, if the board decides to hire him.
He knows the league and speaks (a bit of) English.
Yeah, might be a good choice.

[Chakan]

Thing is mate, the patience you are preaching extends to us the fans and not just the trigger-happy boardroom. Are we willing to see a 5-plan out? Are we going to accept perhaps 2/3 years out of the CL?

Well we've been 3 years without the CL so far. But how much longer can we be in a "building phase"? If we keep sacking manager we are forever rebuilding. Listen if Martinez comes in i'll support him fully. I'll back him every game. I tried it with Roy (up until a point). I just don't see why FSG are willing to take a gamble on a relatively unproven manager. If they are going for age why not actively pursue Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas (they might be but who knows right?) 4 years younger than Martinez and have a proven track record. Ok he didn't work out with Chelsea but I would be more comfortable with him leading us than Martinez who I consider a huge gamble.

[Circa1892]

Look, I know that names like Martinez and Rodgers are not making people ultra-excited but get a grip.  Was Shankly a world famous manager when he came to us?  No.  Did Paisley, Fagan or Dalglish have any 'proven' managerial experience?  No.

I'm not for a second saying that our next manager will come close to the legend of these 4 men, but Liverpool have rarely been a team that sign 'big name' managers.  We look for the right candidate.

That's so out of context and you know it.

When Shankly came in we were a second division side thatd been floundering since the war. And then Bob, Joe and Kenny were internal appointments so clearly different.

[Jellies]

Does anybody have knowledge on Leverkusen's set up? Seems to be somewhat what we're trying to duplicate.

[Reeves]

I have to say I want a Manager who will recognise our desperate need for pace throughout the team

[Circa1892]

He knows the league and speaks (a bit of) English.
Yeah, might be a good choice.

He speaks perfect English...

[CarraG238]

Everything is fucked up again. That didn't take long.

[21stCenturySchizoidMan]

Martinez or Rogers?
Martinez for me if it were one from those two

From the point of view of footballing philosophy , Rodgers is the closest thing to a 'purist' we can possibly appoint. I am actually excited at the prospect of Rodgers getting to work with some of our our talented but directionless players and get us playing the kind of football that will guarantee us 400 passes and 60% plus possession every match. We want that kind of template to be set for the future, players well versed with the idea of valuing possession and ball retention.

[scatman]

Dortmund took a turn down 'calamity lane' when the appointed Klopp. Juventus failed spectacularly by winning the league after years under the novice manager Conte. Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas screwed Porto by winning the UEFA cup , Portuguese cup and league after managing Academica the last season.

If you want 'assurance' of success then Football is the wrong sport for you. Any sport for that matter. Its all a game of chance, luck and the right fit. No appointment is going to be fail safe irrespective of how 'big' the name is. Do i have to go through the long list of 'big managers' who 'assured' their supporters after taking over but failed spectacularly?

For fucks sake..

Seriously, the fact that people think it is some kind of universal truth that Martinez is BOUND to fail if appointed drives me up the wall. Absolutely illogical and reeks of whinging because their own personal favourite is not being considered.

Martinez is practically an english manager. He's been in the UK since 1995, his whole football career bar 8 games has been spent in the UK. I'm not sure how you can expect much.

[surfer]

That Echo article linked had this:

The manager’s role will also change. FSG want Dalglish’s successor to be devoted solely to coaching, although he will still have the final say on signings. That kind of model rules out any possible return to the Anfield hot-seat for former manager Rafa Benitez.

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Pretty definitive on Rafa. Leaving final say to the managers is still far different to a lot of continental DOF models, so saying that rules him out seems to be more for the sake of getting the message out that Rafa can get fucked rather than actually focusing (or actually having one) on the model. Not that a model put together by no-marks in a football sense is something to consider seriously yet.

The time for the likes of Ayre to step up was in a crisis, wasn't there a strong claim that the idea for the T-shirts came from him?  Now it's all we'll learn from mistakes, Kenny's name alone on the defended Luis part.

Not wise to judge definitely looking on from the outside of course, but if I was wise I wouldn't waste my time on a forum. I'm not. Being unwise, I'll say that we have a corporate-speak empty vessel for a runner of club affairs.

[HiroProtagonist]

Look, I know that names like Martinez and Rodgers are not making people ultra-excited but get a grip.  Was Shankly a world famous manager when he came to us?  No.  Did Paisley, Fagan or Dalglish have any 'proven' managerial experience?  No.

I'm not for a second saying that our next manager will come close to the legend of these 4 men, but Liverpool have rarely been a team that sign 'big name' managers.  We look for the right candidate.

I disagree (for the last 20 years anyway), Rafa won the La Liga with Valencia before we took him as our manager, look how that worked out. He won us the Champions League, FA Cup and took us closer than anyone else to winning the league.

By comparison, look at Roy Hodgson and his many 'achievements.' We need a winner, someone with that experience.

[cornelius]

Look, I know that names like Martinez and Rodgers are not making people ultra-excited but get a grip.  Was Shankly a world famous manager when he came to us?  No.  Did Paisley, Fagan or Dalglish have any 'proven' managerial experience?  No.

I'm not for a second saying that our next manager will come close to the legend of these 4 men, but Liverpool have rarely been a team that sign 'big name' managers.  We look for the right candidate.

Times have changed. Drastically. All these arguments were done to death when everyone was gripped by the fear that Alan "Curbs" Curbishley was getting the job. Imagine if we'd gone with him.

[Gravy]

I am concerned a manager is being valued by age and not ability.

Even though Ayre said that wasn't the case?

[Ken-Obi]

Source: www.t h e s u n.co.uk

[Mr Rossi]

The simple answer is no. We did it with rafa and did it with Kenny. If anything I think fans will get more impatient.

I think some of our fanbase will prove a real problem for us. They've already started now and we haven't even hired anyone yet. Unless its Rafa the poor guy who gets the job will be fighting a losing battle before hes even started. And even if it does happen to be Rafa the ones who hounded him out will be far from happy with that.

[peachybum]

I think we are goin to have to be. Dont think there are any quick fixes to this at all. I'd be happy with us finishing 5th or 6th next season and maybe winning a cup or two, then pushing on from there. As that would show progress, show that atlast we are moving in the right direction. I'm probably alone in that thinking though.

Forget the 'maybe winning a cup or two' i'd be happy with just 5th or 6th place next season as long as we actually challenged for top 4.

[surfer]

No links from that paper, Mohamed, read up pal.

[Reeves]

As much as it pains me to say it, we must stop harking on about our glory years and whether eg Fagan had experience. This is a different beast. I would have preferred my chances of keeping us at the top of the league/winning trophies when taking over from Paisley than where we are now. It is a completely different generation. One very good question I ask myself is this:

Who would you not like Man Utd to appoint?

[HiroProtagonist]

Kop's Pep talks , Liverpool make shock move

Don't post links from the Sun, please.

[21stCenturySchizoidMan]

Well we've been 3 years without the CL so far. But how much longer can we be in a "building phase"? If we keep sacking manager we are forever rebuilding. Listen if Martinez comes in i'll support him fully. I'll back him every game. I tried it with Roy (up until a point). I just don't see why FSG are willing to take a gamble on a relatively unproven manager. If they are going for age why not actively pursue Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas (they might be but who knows right?) 4 years younger than Martinez and have a proven track record. Ok he didn't work out with Chelsea but I would be more comfortable with him leading us than Martinez who I consider a huge gamble.

What is this proven track record bollocks? Does a 'proven track record' guarantee success at a new club with different players and whole set of other factors?

I am SICK and TIRED of hearing this repeated time after again, as if appointing a 'big name' will be a unshakable guarantee of CL qualification and success.

It doesn't matter who you are 'more comfortable' with, there are no assurances or guarantees and writing off a Martinez or a Rodgers based on their inexperience is illogical and short sighted.

 

[The G in Gerrard]

Even though Ayre said that wasn't the case?

And we would believe him why? Is the club really suggesting we can either no longer attract established or experienced managers?

[helmboy_nige]

That's so out of context and you know it.

When Shankly came in we were a second division side thatd been floundering since the war. And then Bob, Joe and Kenny were internal appointments so clearly different.

Yes it is out of context, which is kind of the point.

People are acting like spoilt brats because we are considering such a "lowly" candidate like Martinez.  Liverpool rarely approach big name managers, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.

[21stCenturySchizoidMan]

Martinez is practically an english manager. He's been in the UK since 1995, his whole football career bar 8 games has been spent in the UK. I'm not sure how you can expect much.

I am not sure nationality matters much here. Its the footballing philosophy and approach that is relevant and it is well known that he believes in possession based passing football and is considered to be tactically erudite and flexible.

[Aigburth73]

What is this proven track record bollocks? Does a 'proven track record' guarantee success at a new club with different players and whole set of other factors?

I am SICK and TIRED of hearing this repeated time after again, as if appointing a 'big name' will be a unshakable guarantee of CL qualification and success.

It doesn't matter who you are 'more comfortable' with, there are no assurances or guarantees and writing off a Martinez or a Rodgers based on their inexperience is illogical and short sighted.

 

Someone with a proven record is more likely to succeed. Nobody has suggested there is such a thing as a guarantee. Pipe down.