Topic: Dirk Kuyt - On his way to Fenerbahçe?

[Neil D]

Neil, you really need to change your perspective on things (I'm not talking about Kuyt's skills). Yes, no one would like to take a massive pay cut. But trust me, the top players in the Dutch league are paid a few pennies more than the guys that flip the burgers at McNasty's. He's and his family are not exactly gonna die out on the streets homeless and hungry. You said it yourself - tens of thousands of pounds per week! It's not exactly like me, (I presume you) and the average worker losing 80% income, is it? I'd lose my house in two months and will not be able to afford a rent for an apartment/ house, would that be the case for him? Somehow that view of yours that we would all do the same in the same situation doesn't seem to apply equally to me and a person who earns "tens of thousands of pounds a week and millions a year", don't you think?

Disagree mate, I think you're being unrealistic. Even at that end of the scale,and I know we're talking megabucks, people get accustomed to a standard of living. They have set outgoings based on their existing salary. Mortgages, bills, loans, charities, plans for the future. Financial commitments. They can't just drop from 90k a week to 40k a week like that. Even if that is still massive money. It's all relative. I don't see why anybody begrudges somebody looking to maintain a similar level at least of income, or slightly less, instead of a huge pay cut.

[rossipersiempre]

He could have a very good job at Feyenoord.

Not true. He's said himself, he wouldn't be able to sleep at night out of guilt about his salary. Even CL football and a virtually guaranteed start wouldn't make up for the crisis of conscience he'd suffer. Poor Dirk, you have to feel for him. A model professional in every sense.

[Rohit]

Not true. He's said himself, he wouldn't be able to sleep at night out of guilt about his salary. Even CL football and a virtually guaranteed start wouldn't make up for the crisis of conscience he'd suffer. Poor Dirk, you have to feel for him. A model professional in every sense.

You must be enjoying this mate, your good old pal dirk finally looks like he might be gone after all these years.

[farawayred]

Not true. He's said himself, he wouldn't be able to sleep at night out of guilt about his salary. Even CL football and a virtually guaranteed start wouldn't make up for the crisis of conscience he'd suffer. Poor Dirk, you have to feel for him. A model professional in every sense.

I was wrong, I can see it now... 

Disagree mate, I think you're being unrealistic. Even at that end of the scale,and I know we're talking megabucks, people get accustomed to a standard of living. They have set outgoings based on their existing salary. Mortgages, bills, loans, charities, plans for the future. Financial commitments. They can't just drop from 90k a week to 40k a week like that. Even if that is still massive money. It's all relative. I don't see why anybody begrudges somebody looking to maintain a similar level at least of income, or slightly less, instead of a huge pay cut.

I can't disagree with any of this, mate. But here where we are, talking about money, not football. As Rodger Waters put it:
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
Expressed in dollars and cents,
Pounds, shillings and pence

You see, his salary has a few more digits than that of most on here. That's incompatible to the vast majority of us (maybe even all of us). What is compatible though is the choice - money or pleasant work. Some of us have faced or will face that choice; I have. I left my dream job in the academic sphere to earn more than twice to support my family and buy a house (that I will be paying for until I'm 73). But I'm looking forward to getting my kids through college and getting back to my dream job in 3-4 years even if that means taking a 2/3 pay cut. But that's me, different people make different choice when presented with the same situation. I don't and can't blame Kuyt for wanting to earn what he could. If he chose to stay and polish the bench, fine, he has a contract. If he chose to go to another club to play every game, fine, no problem. But the issue I have is this. It's all nice and dandy when earning money and playing football go hand in hand, but that time is in the past for him. When you are presented with the choice money OR football, a situation that Kuyt arguably faces now, you can't say "I want to play football at the highest level, but I won't do that for much less money". It's either-or, and he's trying to present it as if he's another Messi who everyone is after and he should be paid accordingly.

I haven't been Kuyt's biggest fan, I admit, although I valued his contribution over the years and I thought highly of him. Until this transfer window.

[Kashinoda]

Not true. He's said himself, he wouldn't be able to sleep at night out of guilt about his salary. Even CL football and a virtually guaranteed start wouldn't make up for the crisis of conscience he'd suffer. Poor Dirk, you have to feel for him. A model professional in every sense.

Give it a fucking rest.

[Saint Kopite™]

You must be enjoying this mate, your good old pal dirk finally looks like he might be gone after all these years.

I won't be surprised if both Rossi and Yorky throw a party after Dirk leaves.

[rossipersiempre]

You must be enjoying this mate, your good old pal dirk finally looks like he might be gone after all these years.

I won't be surprised if both Rossi and Yorky throw a party after Dirk leaves.

Not wishing to speak for Yorky, for me it's more blessed relief than anything resembling joy. It's been long overdue after all. Still, he's hanging on to the doorframe of the vet's surgery, making a lot of noise, isn't he?

[Rohit]

Not wishing to speak for Yorky, for me it's more blessed relief than anything resembling joy. It's been long overdue after all. Still, he's hanging on to the doorframe of the vet's surgery, making a lot of noise, isn't he?

It has to be honest and he's seen off better players that should played more like benayoun, bellamy and crouch. Fact is he's going to have to make a compromise in that he takes a wage cut and goes somewhere else or stays and doesn't play but he'll continue to moan if thats the case.

[scatman]

it's alright guys, he's allowed to moan and pander away for moves to other clubs and to moan about the manager a day or two after the legend is fired because he's Dirk Kuyt.

He's nothing like Raul Meireles that traitor, earning highest wages at the club on 30k and wanting to double his wages. Or that knobhead Torres who left because he thought he would earn trophies elsewhere.

[Julio]

A Working Class Hero is something to be

[steveeastend]

Maybe he will stay anyway...

[Neil D]

I can't disagree with any of this, mate. But here where we are, talking about money, not football. As Rodger Waters put it:
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
Expressed in dollars and cents,
Pounds, shillings and pence

You see, his salary has a few more digits than that of most on here. That's incompatible to the vast majority of us (maybe even all of us). What is compatible though is the choice - money or pleasant work. Some of us have faced or will face that choice; I have. I left my dream job in the academic sphere to earn more than twice to support my family and buy a house (that I will be paying for until I'm 73). But I'm looking forward to getting my kids through college and getting back to my dream job in 3-4 years even if that means taking a 2/3 pay cut. But that's me, different people make different choice when presented with the same situation. I don't and can't blame Kuyt for wanting to earn what he could. If he chose to stay and polish the bench, fine, he has a contract. If he chose to go to another club to play every game, fine, no problem. But the issue I have is this. It's all nice and dandy when earning money and playing football go hand in hand, but that time is in the past for him. When you are presented with the choice money OR football, a situation that Kuyt arguably faces now, you can't say "I want to play football at the highest level, but I won't do that for much less money". It's either-or, and he's trying to present it as if he's another Messi who everyone is after and he should be paid accordingly.

I haven't been Kuyt's biggest fan, I admit, although I valued his contribution over the years and I thought highly of him. Until this transfer window.

That's a well argued post mate and I see your point of view. Maybe he will have to lower his expectations.

[Neil D]

it's alright guys, he's allowed to moan and pander away for moves to other clubs and to moan about the manager a day or two after the legend is fired because he's Dirk Kuyt.

He didn't moan about the manager, he stated facts about how he played less under Kenny and gave an opinion on how he thought that affected his form. As for pandering for moves to other clubs, he's approaching the end of his career and has to look at his options if he's playing less. And in doing so it's reasonable to want to play at a high level and maintain a competitive wage.

Don't let facts get in the way of your agenda though.

[classycarra]

Disagree mate, I think you're being unrealistic. Even at that end of the scale,and I know we're talking megabucks, people get accustomed to a standard of living. They have set outgoings based on their existing salary. Mortgages, bills, loans, charities, plans for the future. Financial commitments. They can't just drop from 90k a week to 40k a week like that. Even if that is still massive money. It's all relative. I don't see why anybody begrudges somebody looking to maintain a similar level at least of income, or slightly less, instead of a huge pay cut.

i think your point sums up situations like these although i'd contest it's not a case of can't, but won't

[Neil D]

A Working Class Hero is something to be

Without a doubt. Son of a fisherman who worked his socks off and made the most of his abilities to reach the top of international and club football.

Dirk Kuyt - Working Class Hero.

[Neil D]

i think your point sums up situations like these although i'd contest it's not a case of can't, but won't

Possibly but we don't know the extent of those financial commitments (or what his wife wants  ) so who knows whether he has much of a choice!

[-Q-]

Maybe he will stay anyway...

What I think based on observation:
He will want to stay for lack of options, he is hoping for a new better contract with us and promise of games because he has high opinion of himself. He placed his misfortunes on Kenny and now Kenny is gone he is back to feeling big and hoping for one last big contract with Liverpool.

I find him very frustrating as a player and I don't see him having any important role for us in the future.  I think his wages could be used towards a new better player but if we can't move him I don't mind him staying as we have very demanding season ahead, as long as he accepts the role that manager has for him without moaning to press at every opportunity.

I understand that he wants security and with just one year left on his contract and no prospect of playing much he is worried that the end will be accelerated. This is why I think he needs to forget his ego, forget playing for a big club and take modest money and an opportunity to play for another 3-4 years.

[scatman]

He didn't moan about the manager, he stated facts about how he played less under Kenny and gave an opinion on how he thought that affected his form. As for pandering for moves to other clubs, he's approaching the end of his career and has to look at his options if he's playing less. And in doing so it's reasonable to want to play at a high level and maintain a competitive wage.

Don't let facts get in the way of your agenda though.

HAHa agenda? You only have look through this thread to see who has an agenda. God is your dick attached to Dirk's asshole? no wonder he's been a bit slow this past season, slower than usual.

[Neil D]

HAHa agenda? You only have look through this thread to see who has an agenda. God is your dick attached to Dirk's asshole? no wonder he's been a bit slow this past season, slower than usual.

Yeah, a clear agenda. You've been slagging him off for ages and now you've seized an opportunity to put the boot in and dived in two footed. As for that comment at the end, that just shows your lack of class.

[scatman]

Yeah, a clear agenda. You've been slagging him off for ages and now you've seized an opportunity to put the boot in and dived in two footed. As for that comment at the end, that just shows your lack of class.

I've criticised him this season and not before that, you obviously think he is above any criticism and is the greatest player to ever grace the red shirt, so much so that his classless remarks in the press are irrelevant.

[Neil D]

I've criticised him this season and not before that, you obviously think he is above any criticism and is the greatest player to ever grace the red shirt, so much so that his classless remarks in the press are irrelevant.

Fair enough, you're not one of the worst and you have given credit where due in the past, but you've made your mind up a while back and that shines through now in your negative posts about him. No player is above constructive criticism, Dirk is far from one of our greatest players, but he has been a good player for us and his actions on the pitch and years of loyal service seem to be disregarded now by some based on one honest interview that didn't actually say anything other than the obvious.

[conman]

He might have a future under Rodgers.... Didnt he say on MOTD or somethin like that that he loves Kuyt and went on to praise him quite a bit?

I came here to post the exact same thing.

I mentioned this in another thread, but here we go again.

Rodgers is going to want to impose his style of play & tactics on the team. This appointment is much like a Rafa appointment, his teams were well drilled, knew where they needed to be at any given occasion on the pitch, they need to know when to move, when not to, when to run into space, when to hold of. He is going to try & build a well oiled machine here. To implement this, it takes time. To shorten that time, and ease the transition, he needs players who have played under a similar system, like Rafa's system. Kuyt is one of these players, as is Maxi. I reckon its ideal to keep them both here for 1 more year & play them a lot at the start, then let them move on this time next year.

[Dirk18Kuyt]

People seem to think we need to get rid of players to 'Free up wages' and sell Kuyt for £1 million, but they're happy for us to give Newcastle £42 million and then finish 3 places above us, and happy for us to pay £5 million for Brendan Rodgers.

If we've got money for that I don't think people such as us should be worrying about the wage bill. 

[conman]

If we've got money for that I don't think people such as us should be worrying about the wage bill. 

alright Dirk, hows the form?

[Dirk18Kuyt]

alright Dirk, hows the form?

Shush, he'd just gotten us to a final. 

[Neil D]

These discussions about Dirk are so circular. We all know the positions of the usual crowd (including myself) in either camp of thought and there isn't much that is really going to move us from these positions or take the debate anywhere that it hasn't been before.

We've just appointed a new manager, it's an exciting time to be a Red, if also a time where apprehension is understandable, and while we all have our opinions on individual players, it seems to me that this is a fresh start for all of our players, as well as the club as a whole and the fans. It's a time when I would rather focus on the positives and see where we go from here, so much to the delight of many(!) I'm sure, I'm going to try and leave these Dirk threads well alone. The sniping at him, and in my case at other posters that snipe at him, just seems so tired and I'd rather spend my time on here finding out more about Brendan Rodgers' vision for the future and analysing where that could take us, whether or not his plans includes Dirk, than getting bogged down in this perpetual argument. Football is meant to be fun and so is being a football fan and we are all Liverpool supporters who just want to see the team improve and win games and win trophies. I'm looking forward to enjoying football again and getting away from an atmosphere of doom and gloom.

[Red Eyed]

The title should be Dirk Kuyt, but where?

Sorry

[keyo]

I won't be surprised if both Rossi and Yorky throw a party after Dirk leaves.

be funnier if rodgers starts him first game of the season.......hopefully all belts and laces will be removed to avoid self harm from certain quarters

i assume the current state of lay is a holding pattern until rodgers comletes a review of the squad and plans..therefore no news on whether kuyt is leaving or staying?

[Barefoot Doctor]

be funnier if rodgers starts him first game of the season.......hopefully all belts and laces will be removed to avoid self harm from certain quarters

i assume the current state of lay is a holding pattern until rodgers comletes a review of the squad and plans..therefore no news on whether kuyt is leaving or staying?

Everything is probably on hold until after the Euros regarding Dirk.

[John C]

Everything is probably on hold until after the Euros regarding Dirk.

Which could be a risk if he has a poor tournament.

[arcticus]

http://www.football-italia.net/19504/vargas-kuyt-swap-cards

Sounds Good! Make it happen Rodgers!

[shook]

Everything is probably on hold until after the Euros regarding Dirk.

Normally would agree, but doesn't Kuyt have a 1 million buy out clause?  That would make the Euros irrelevant to any potential transfer fee, since it is already set fairly low.

[NonstopKOP]

Sad to see him go if he leaves but im starting to feel he has done his time here. What he lacks in technique he made up for in willingness. Showed up in a lot of big games for us and for his nation. However he is not getting any younger and we are going through changes. We need a real winger and a better consistent goal scorer. I say cash in for a little and a team in a other league thats not rebuilding and is pushing for honors. If that is what he is looking and is possible of course. Just my opinion.

[Asam]

http://www.football-italia.net/19504/vargas-kuyt-swap-cards

Sounds Good! Make it happen Rodgers!

Meh he's got weight management issues, Jovetic on the other hand..

[Cruiser]

http://www.football-italia.net/19504/vargas-kuyt-swap-cards

Sounds Good! Make it happen Rodgers!

Fuckin hell, amazing swap, I'd snap their hands off for that!

[Shemy]

Vargas has been pretty poor

[Aristotle]

Fuckin hell, amazing swap, I'd snap their hands off for that!

Did you watch Vargas last season? He looked at Stewart Downing as the next step above in making an impact and in terms of clinical finishing.

And there are no sources for this whatsoever. Kuyt has said there is interest from Italian teams, but there are no quotes from Fiorentina, the player or the player agent (and that's saying something)

[Barefoot Doctor]

http://www.football-italia.net/19504/vargas-kuyt-swap-cards

Sounds Good! Make it happen Rodgers!

I don't know about Vargas. Again, he's the wrong age for what FSG are looking for.

I do, however, like the idea of someone who can play anywhere down the left as it would provide competition for Enrique while giving us options down the wing.

Who else fits that bill who is gettable?

[Asam]

I don't know about Vargas. Again, he's the wrong age for what FSG are looking for.

I do, however, like the idea of someone who can play anywhere down the left as it would provide competition for Enrique while giving us options down the wing.

Who else fits that bill who is gettable?

Pablo Armero

[belfast-connection]

Pablo Armero

good shout

rodgers seems to like his pacy wide players - whether at full back or on the wing