Topic: The Kenny Dalglish Discussion (*) - Post A Rumour and Get A Week Off Free

[Arcadian]

I'll tell you something straight, I only want to keep Kenny for 2 reasons... 1: Because he wants to stay and we should give him that opportunity. 2: Far more importantly, the big picture of us as a club. I don't want us to become some sack the manager every few seasons, midtable team.

Can Kenny deliver? Let's be honest, that remains to be seen. But as a club, we need to let him try and then see how things have gone at the end of his contract. If he does the business, great. If he fails, well, so be it. We thank him for his efforts. We part company amicably. We move on from there.

That's bound to bring the screams of why wait, if you think he's going to fail. We'll be miles away and might never recover.
Well, I don't believe that will happen. I think things will get no worse. We won't finish lower than this no matter how long Kenny stays. We won't lose touch. The next fella will have about the same chance as Kenny has to restore the club.

We sack him now, that's that. The end of all we used to stand for. We'll have set a precedent that we won't shake. We'll be a sacking club. Anyone who doesn't bring instant success will be dumped. Nobody will ever get the time it takes to build a successful club.

I believe we already started that process when we sacked Rafa. If we do it with Kenny, that's it... bye, bye Liverpool Way. We'll become Chelsea without the dough, not a pleasant prospect.

This is absolutely true. It's about our ethos as a club, about who we are as supporters, and about how we want the world to see us.

Unfortunately this gets lost in the clammour for results which have evaded us for so long, and ignored by those for whom success is everything. Success is important and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't to me. But if there's one thing more important than winning its our identity.

If we can't give Kenny the time he needs then who shall we? And who shall we be? Fucking Chelsea that's who.

[lfcderek]

If you cut out all the sentiment and say for the sake of it that RH was still the manager, there is no way as many people would be willing to go another season like this.
We can't get caught up and held back because of who the manager is, if the season was a car crash (as it was, cups mean nothing, who did we beat) then we haven't got time for this sentiment. Get someone new in now and give him time to get things right before August. I do have my ideas on who but that's not the subject.
I would be sorry to see kenny go but needs must and being loyal to him, in my mind would be a mistake we can't afford.

It's a complete nonsense to involve RH in discussion about the Liverpool manager!

Hodgson was never a Liverpool manager - not for a single moment.

I've criticisms of Kenny's performance this year. I believe that we should have played (most games) with a settled formation - almost regardless of what that formation was.

Mind you, I'm just and old fart and he may have been forced to try things in order to find something (anything) to get the under performing buys of the summer to show their pre transfer form - 20-20 hindsight makes things easier.

Kenny must take some blame for those poor buys. How much was Kenny's and how much was Comolli's? We'll probably never know.

Following the Arsenal game, Coates should have played virtually every game and Robinson should have had half a dozen starts.

After a season where

We had a devastating injury to the most important member of the squad

Suffered the most amazing flirtation with woodwork in my 49 years of following Liverpool

Got to the final of 2 cups - winning one

Saw the green shoots of progress in two of the under-performers

Played some great football and indeed were the better team in the bulk of our matches - we simply couldn't get the bloody ball in the net.

Lost a bloody genius for the most ridiculous 8 match ban - yes, I read that disgrace of a report.

Should Kenny be out manager next year?

Of course he bloody should be.

[cowtownred]

I'll tell you something straight, I only want to keep Kenny for 2 reasons... 1: Because he wants to stay and we should give him that opportunity. 2: Far more importantly, the big picture of us as a club. I don't want us to become some sack the manager every few seasons, midtable team.

Can Kenny deliver? Let's be honest, that remains to be seen. But as a club, we need to let him try and then see how things have gone at the end of his contract. If he does the business, great. If he fails, well, so be it. We thank him for his efforts. We part company amicably. We move on from there.

That's bound to bring the screams of why wait, if you think he's going to fail. We'll be miles away and might never recover.
Well, I don't believe that will happen. I think things will get no worse. We won't finish lower than this no matter how long Kenny stays. We won't lose touch. The next fella will have about the same chance as Kenny has to restore the club.

We sack him now, that's that. The end of all we used to stand for. We'll have set a precedent that we won't shake. We'll be a sacking club. Anyone who doesn't bring instant success will be dumped. Nobody will ever get the time it takes to build a successful club.

I believe we already started that process when we sacked Rafa. If we do it with Kenny, that's it... bye, bye Liverpool Way. We'll become Chelsea without the dough, not a pleasant prospect.

Thats it in a nutshell mate.

As you pointed out earlier, some of us auld arses were glad to see Kenny step in, but were afraid too...we could see after the way Rafa got shat on what might happen to the greatest living Red if things didn't work out straight off.

But if this Club goes down the road of no long term strategy, no patience, change the manager every year...  particularly if that man is the embodiment of what it is to be A LIVERPOOL MAN, then we deserve what is inevitably going to follow. A heartless Club, with no integrity or values, and fully deserving of its status as an ordinary team in a worthless business plan operated to keep cash flows in the black.         

[orilliakopite]

Well said Island-Red..Its time to remember who we are and what we stand for...I have been reading this forum for a number of years...made a couple of posts but I tell ya the shite thats comes out on here is nothing short of disgraceful it makes we wonder if it is fans from other clubs cause I can't believe true reds would write some of the shite on here I would like to think it was fans of other clubs but in my heart I no its not. I have been a season ticket holder since 1974 stood on the kop since 1969 seen us win everything..And if we never won another thing LFC would still be my club. King Kenny is in my opinion is without doubt the man to lead us forward and yes he may have made mistakes who does'nt and I am sure he will make a few more but when he does I know that whatever he is doing he is doing for the best of this club because the man eats sleeps and drinks Liverpool football club you people with short memories or no memory at all (check the internet for our history--I am sure you could get someone to read it to you if it is difficult to understand) if you had an ounce of King Kenny's devotion to this club then you would not be questioning the mans love and integrity.

Anybody who thinks Kenny should go, or that it'd be good for the club if Kenny goes is absolutely bonkers.

Just had to say it. I've been reading this board for years, finally signed up and 10-15 posts in I've had it.

The same immature children that were upset and wanted Rafa out when we were beating Real Madrid, Inter, AC Milan, Juventus, Barcelona, winning trophies and challenging for the title are now calling for KENNY DALGLISH'S head.

Remember when we won the european cup, were ranked 1 in europe, won an FA cup, came second in the league? You kids booed that manager. You came on here spouting shite about getting him out after one poor season. Look where that got you. I'm all for free speech but I'm more for learning as you go. What did you little shits learn from the way you treated Rafa?

Have a good look at yourselves. This is outrageous.

Read these lyrics and have a word with yourselves, go ask your father's what their opinion is and learn something. I'm 27, brought up on sky  shit and when I get all wound up I text my dad and he mellows me out, teaches me about the liverpool way and tells me to relax. He talks about building things, doing things in-house, and most importantly supporting the club and the manager.

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark.
 
At the end of the storm
There's a golden sky
And the sweet silver
Song of a lark.
 
Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
 
Though your dreams
Be tossed and blown.
Walk on
Walk on
 
With hope in your hearts
And you'll never walk alone
 
You'll never walk alone.
Walk on
Walk on
 
These words sound great from the kop, but what do they actually mean to you?

[Upinsmoke]

There's nothing for the club to confirm or deny.....


Kenny is the manager, he's still the manager, he will be manager next season.


Why do you need a press release to confirm that Kenny is still the manager?  You only need a press release to confirm he's gone?

A whole load of silly rumours that have come form nothing and have been blown wildly out of proportion and people have panicked for no reason...

Weird.

Kenny will improve the side next season, that's for sure.

Whether that will be enough to keep his job long term is a different question, but that leap to fourth place is a manager goal for us in our progression.

Everybody knew there would be loads of shit flying about. The mods knew it, the club knew it, everybody knew it. So shit loads of speculation, kenny and Clarke going out to Boston, twitter going mad, you might hate it but its out there....its done now, anyway my point is....maybe it wouldn't of hurt to put a little release up on.tv just saying "manager Kenny dalglish met with fsg to discuss the future, things went well and everybody is looking forward to next season blah blah blah" yeah basically fuck all of a statement but a Statement none The less. Just takes the edge off IMO.

[bclfc]

I feel for Kenny.  He looked awfully tired towards the end of the season.  With the Evra BS and the media agenda against him and LFC, it may have taken a toll.  But he deserves the chance to make things right next season, if that's what he wants to do. 

Apart from the back and forth about tactics etc, he won us the first Cup for six years, and got us to another final, something Man U, Arsenal and Tottenham didn't do this season.  We were less than a foot away from potential double glory, denied only by a freakishly fantastic save.

Our league form suffered, but I think that's actually a result of lack of Europe, as it may be counter-intuitive, but not having those extra games to keep players sharp probably hurt us.  I was one of those who thought it would keep our players rested, but I think it dulled their edge in the league.  I want to see Kenny lead us out in Europe again.  I really do think we are just two or three good players from challenging for the CL places next season, especially a clinical striker.  Not scoring goals was our biggest problem, and it wasn't for a lack of chances.  A proven, clinical striker alongside Suarez, with Andy as a supersub or occasional starter, a top winger and someone to shore up our midfield, and suddenly we look pretty strong overall.

But it's not my call to make, so I hope FSG have a solid plan in place if they part with the King.

[filopastry]

There's nothing for the club to confirm or deny.....


Kenny is the manager, he's still the manager, he will be manager next season.


Why do you need a press release to confirm that Kenny is still the manager?  You only need a press release to confirm he's gone?

A whole load of silly rumours that have come form nothing and have been blown wildly out of proportion and people have panicked for no reason...

Weird.

Kenny will improve the side next season, that's for sure.

Whether that will be enough to keep his job long term is a different question, but that leap to fourth place is a manager goal for us in our progression.

Only you've got Tony Barrett writing tonight that Kenny hasn't received any assurances from the owners that he will remain as manager for next season and is currently in limbo.

Personally I'm unusual in this thread in that I don't have massively strong views as to whether Kenny should go or not this summer, I don't have enough information to judge what went wrong this season why it wasn't addressed and what the management team's plans are to address it over the summer and for next season.

Assuming Kenny addresses those issues adequately to the owners I'm sure he'll be back again for another season, if he doesn't he's unlikely to be, assuming the owners expectations are reasonable throughout the process I don't have an issue with that, those are all questions we should be asking after a disappointing season.

The disappointing thing about the whole situation for me has been how much of it has leaked into the public domain rather than being kept in house.

[Hinesy]

Only you've got Tony Barrett writing tonight that Kenny hasn't received any assurances from the owners that he will remain as manager for next season and is currently in limbo.

Personally I'm unusual in this thread in that I don't have massively strong views as to whether Kenny should go or not this summer, I don't have enough information to judge what went wrong this season why it wasn't addressed and what the management team's plans are to address it over the summer and for next season.

Assuming Kenny addresses those issues adequately to the owners I'm sure he'll be back again for another season, if he doesn't he's unlikely to be, assuming the owners expectations are reasonable throughout the process I don't have an issue with that, those are all questions we should be asking after a disappointing season.

The disappointing thing about the whole situation for me has been how much of it has leaked into the public domain rather than being kept in house.

Wise words from the pastry.

[cowtownred]

Well said Island-Red..Its time to remember who we are and what we stand for...I have been reading this forum for a number of years...made a couple of posts but I tell ya the shite thats comes out on here is nothing short of disgraceful it makes we wonder if it is fans from other clubs cause I can't believe true reds would write some of the shite on here I would like to think it was fans of other clubs but in my heart I no its not. I have been a season ticket holder since 1974 stood on the kop since 1969 seen us win everything..And if we never won another thing LFC would still be my club. King Kenny is in my opinion is without doubt the man to lead us forward and yes he may have made mistakes who does'nt and I am sure he will make a few more but when he does I know that whatever he is doing he is doing for the best of this club because the man eats sleeps and drinks Liverpool football club you people with short memories or no memory at all (check the internet for our history--I am sure you could get someone to read it to you if it is difficult to understand) if you had an ounce of King Kenny's devotion to this club then you would not be questioning the mans love and integrity.

Have you thought of joining us on Shanklyboy's auld arse thread mate?

I get the impression you will enjoy/be enjoyed on there...

[rafathegaffa83]

Only you've got Tony Barrett writing tonight that Kenny hasn't received any assurances from the owners that he will remain as manager for next season and is currently in limbo.

Personally I'm unusual in this thread in that I don't have massively strong views as to whether Kenny should go or not this summer, I don't have enough information to judge what went wrong this season why it wasn't addressed and what the management team's plans are to address it over the summer and for next season.

Assuming Kenny addresses those issues adequately to the owners I'm sure he'll be back again for another season, if he doesn't he's unlikely to be, assuming the owners expectations are reasonable throughout the process I don't have an issue with that, those are all questions we should be asking after a disappointing season.

Well said.

[lfcderek]

Thats it in a nutshell mate.

As you pointed out earlier, some of us auld arses were glad to see Kenny step in, but were afraid too...we could see after the way Rafa got shat on what might happen to the greatest living Red if things didn't work out straight off.

But if this Club goes down the road of no long term strategy, no patience, change the manager every year...  particularly if that man is the embodiment of what it is to be A LIVERPOOL MAN, then we deserve what is inevitably going to follow. A heartless Club, with no integrity or values, and fully deserving of its status as an ordinary team in a worthless business plan operated to keep cash flows in the black.         

This.

During the 7 years when Shankly didn't win a trophy I still cheered, jeered, laughed, cried - and loved every minute. Just like 50,000 others.

Fuck off Sky.
Fuck off the Sky generation.
Fuck off the bastards who stuck the Knife into Rafa.
Fuck off the c***ts who don't know who Kenny is.

[Tepid water]

Only you've got Tony Barrett writing tonight that Kenny hasn't received any assurances from the owners that he will remain as manager for next season and is currently in limbo.

Personally I'm unusual in this thread in that I don't have massively strong views as to whether Kenny should go or not this summer, I don't have enough information to judge what went wrong this season why it wasn't addressed and what the management team's plans are to address it over the summer and for next season.

Assuming Kenny addresses those issues adequately to the owners I'm sure he'll be back again for another season, if he doesn't he's unlikely to be, assuming the owners expectations are reasonable throughout the process I don't have an issue with that, those are all questions we should be asking after a disappointing season.

The disappointing thing about the whole situation for me has been how much of it has leaked into the public domain rather than being kept in house.

Fair point..... Tony is the straightest journalist there is, no spin no sensation just facts.
For me, Kenny has to have a chance next season, he's given us too much not to be given the chance to put things right.

[shook]

If - and obviously none of us know exactly what is going on - there is the possibility of Dalglish leaving or being sacked, it is a bit troublesome in the sense of both our progress this year (winning a trophy and qualifying for the Europa League), and the fact that we do not have a CEO or a Director of Football.  The former position has been unfilled for the length of FSG's ownership.  If a decision on the manager is made at this stage, it raises questions, IMO, on FSGs ability to systematically bring structure to the club.

In other words, there is a relative stability in the managerial position currently (even if criticisms are valid given transfer purchases and results), yet there are glaring holes higher up the chain that should be - or should have been already been - addressed initially.  This wouldn't preclude a decision being made on the manager even later in this summer, but if its done now the timing seems very poor

[StiffieGee]

Only you've got Tony Barrett writing tonight that Kenny hasn't received any assurances from the owners that he will remain as manager for next season and is currently in limbo.
...
The disappointing thing about the whole situation for me has been how much of it has leaked into the public domain rather than being kept in house.

Who would've spoken to Tony Barrett, I wonder?

[AisoD]

I feel as if Liverpool are stuck in a maze with no exit in sight. Sacking Kenny won't help us find that exit but keeping he won't either. Doing either could lead us deeper in that maze. Kenny stays or goes, it really is a roll of the dice.

For me, there is no right answer. This season has been unacceptable for our standards but there was enough to give me hope for next season. Yet, there was also a lot that gave me plenty to fear.

All i hope is whatever the owners decide, the fans accept their decision with dignity and grace.

[Harinder]

...

Full of second hand news 

Which in all fairness is what we are getting here. Journalist x says something, the other journalist says something different. Reality being neither really know. Sky would have you believe anything remotely sensational simply because the reality of the situation is too normal.

When did patience become such a bad thing?

[Z e u s]

The disappointing thing about the whole situation for me has been how much of it has leaked into the public domain rather than being kept in house.

What is being leaked?

They are having a review like all teams have at the end of the season.  Yes it might end in Dalglish leaving, but it might not and the club can't help the press or media seeing he is going to Boston to meet the owners.

Dalglish has done his best to keep everything behind closed doors this season, hardly giving the press any info about anything.

The press are just speculating on most things, the club can't stop that.

[OLDIE]

I have to declare an interest, I am lucky enough to know Kenny personally and I know how much he loves the club. I am not prepared to enter into any slagging off of the great man and I am not going to say BUT.

Kenny has without any doubt the best interests of the club and fans at heart, he has the desire and determination to push the club forward in the direction we all want and he has the reputation and standing in the game to be the perfect magnet to modern day talent. He has always said that he will be judged at the end of the season and the judgement process is underway.

The older fans will NEVER hear anything bad said about the greatest player we have ever seen wear the shirt. The young fans are "educated" by the sky generation and generally have no idea about the Liverpool Way.

In my opinion Kenny has made mistakes - Check it out he is Human after all !!

Sack him - Nah not for me

Martinez - Yeah could be a Liverpool Manager but give it a year or two.

[The 92A]

Cards on the table I want him to stay. No matter what we've done in the cups, you can't dress it up and pretend that the end of the season has been anything but dissapointing. At times the players have looked clueless when our twenty minutes of pressure hasn't born any results but I don't go for this kenny has been left behind by the modern game argument. His style was always been a passing game but he is  the opposite of Rafa, who I always supported, in that he is not prescriptive but he trusts his players to vary the game. It's not that he doesn't have a style of play but he wants his players to be very pragmatic, varying it according to what is required. In the play like Barca thread, people found it difficult to define the style that once made us the best team in Europe because one of the features was it was a mis-mash of things that worked because it was effective, we'd park the bus in aways in Europe we'd play expansive football we'd go direct, what held it together was the passing and movement.

Without an intelligent midfield it doesn't work as well, our most intelligent midfielder was out half the season, Kenny wasn't given money in January, yes he had a few bad buys, it happens to the best,  Fergueson fucked up with his Veron's,  Shankly did with his Tony Hately's. I trust him to turn it around. Kenny always did mad things you couldn't understand like Rafa did but the one thing I'm certain is that if you change managers eevery time they have a bad season, that's the road to nowhere quickly. Stability is Key to building football teams. Martinez is being hailed as the flavour of the month but look at the picture a month or two ago. He deserves more time, he'll put it right. Whether he gets it is another matter.

[TheEru]

All i hope is whatever the owners decide, the fans accept their decision with dignity and grace.

Liverpool fans will show 'dignity and grace' if they think it has been shown back.

People can decide themselves from the events or lack of events today if these qualities are being shown by the football club.

[T-Bone]

A lot of people are suggesting that given his legacy he should be given more time (than others, I assume), that winning with King Kenny in charge would be amazing, that we're not a club who give managers the sack prematurely. I can fully understand all of these points, but there's only one the really matters: Can he turn it around or move us forward?

I just don't think he's the right man for the job, and I said as much when he came in after Hodgson. The best solution then, IMO, would've been to give him a contract till the summer and then looked for someone younger and more for the future in a permanent job. Now we're exactly in the kind of situation we don't want to be in. I feel dirty for criticising Kenny, but IMO the criticism is fair.

[S7ARZ]

The disappointing thing about the whole situation for me has been how much of it has leaked into the public domain rather than being kept in house.

I don't believe much has been leaked out into the public domain, it's more of a case of the little amount that has been leaked has had endless amounts of rumours added to it.
Because of how much media attention both the club and the manager have received this year it means they can make an interesting and readable story about any topic that rises about either of the two. It would be nice for the owners to come out and announce whether they back our manager or not as this will settle a lot of media speculation, settle the fans and also settle the team. Maybe this will be due in the coming days but I'm sure we'll here from the owners very soon.

[JavierMascherano20]

Well, everything is a little up in the air at the moment. It was obvious that the owners would want to analyse the season. That should be the case after every season. We have to analyse the season as a whole and look at what went right and what went wrong.

With that in my mind, I believe that Kenny should have at least another season. If we haven’t learned from this season then clearly it will be time to step aside. This summer will tell us a lot about the direction that we’re heading in. I think that we’ll have a much clearer picture at the end of next season too. But I don’t think it’s fair to just remove the manager after his first full season. We’ve reached two Cup finals and fallen short in the League this season. But I can’t help but look on the bright side as well. I’m realistic and yet positive at the same time.

The expectations will always be massive at a club like ours and I’m sure that Kenny is under no illusions that he has to drag this team and get them performing better. I’m sure that he will have learned a hell of a lot from this season too. He’ll be disappointed but I’m sure that he will be positive and excited for the new season ahead. It isn’t going to be easy but we’ve got the foundations in place and we need to build on that now. We need to improve certain areas and we need to be smart and shrewd this summer in achieving that.

It’s also worth noting that Chelsea finished sixth this season. That seems to have largely gone under the radar. They’ve invested loads in their squad. I know, they’ve got the Champions League final coming up and they did win the FA Cup. But they also spent huge money on their team and even on Andre Villas-Boas (to hire him in the first place and then to fire him). I use Chelsea as an example because last season they finished as runners-up in the League. This time out, they’ve dropped quite a few places – for whatever reason.

But it does show that it can happen. We’ve dropped a few places. We’ve finished below Everton but it happens. Everton finished above us in the 2004/05 season too.  Newcastle has also finished above us too. But let’s just see how next season goes. Maybe we can turn the tables and climb back up. Maybe we won’t. But we need to see what unfolds.

Can he achieve the targets that are set? Can he go one and better them? We will see. We need a better game plan and a more settled system and formation. We need to approach games with a better mentality as well. At times we've performed well but we haven't got the results that we desired. At other times we've looked clueless. But that can happen in any given season. Sometimes the team just doesn't perform on the day. The table doesn't lie, and we haven't got enough good results this season. It might sound like a cliché but there aren’t any easy games. So many teams will be looking to turn us over because we’re Liverpool Football Club.

The will to win has to be there in every game – whether you’re facing Manchester United or Crewe Alexandra. We have to have that mentality because every match is really important. I don’t want to see us taking our eye off of the ball. If we qualify, then we will also have European football next season, which could be a blessing in disguise or a hindrance.

Kenny stepped in at a difficult time and managed to improve our results and performances. Now, I know that 2012 has been a dreadful year for us in the League – but are we just going to hang him out to dry because things are going wrong? Or are we going to give him another season to try and correct the wrongs that have happened? The manager always takes the full blame. I think Kenny accepts this. He’s taken a lot of stick for some of the players. Some of them need to start repaying him by actually performing on the pitch.

Finally, I’ve been appalled by a minority of our supporters this season. A few hours after the FA Cup final defeat and some people were calling for Kenny to leave. You’ll Never Walk Alone? Some fans would rather that he did.

[Twelfth Customer]

Cards on the table I want him to stay. No matter what we've done in the cups, you can't dress it up and pretend that the end of the season has been anything but dissapointing. At times the players have looked clueless when our twenty minutes of pressure hasn't born any results but I don't go for this kenny has been left behind by the modern game argument. His style was always been a passing game but he is  the opposite of Rafa, who I always supported, in that he is not prescriptive but he trusts his players to vary the game. It's not that he doesn't have a style of play but he wants his players to be very pragmatic, varying it according to what is required.

Some would argue Meireles, Kuyt, Maxi, Aquilani are more suited to this type of intelligent, thinking man's football.

[Mighty_Red]

Everybody knew there would be loads of shit flying about. The mods knew it, the club knew it, everybody knew it. So shit loads of speculation, kenny and Clarke going out to Boston, twitter going mad, you might hate it but its out there....its done now, anyway my point is....maybe it wouldn't of hurt to put a little release up on.tv just saying "manager Kenny dalglish met with fsg to discuss the future, things went well and everybody is looking forward to next season blah blah blah" yeah basically fuck all of a statement but a Statement none The less. Just takes the edge off IMO.

Looking at it objectively, there is no way that you would come out with such a statement until the season review is completed. I would be just as worried if FSG blindly put of statements of "support" for Kenny without actually knowing what they were supporting. We've seen countless examples of the "dreaded vote of confidence" which is reality is not a belief in the methods of the manager, more a case of waiting and hoping for things to turn around.

Andre Villas-Boas is the case in point - at the start of his tenure, surely there was acknowledgment that he faced a big task to transform Chelsea long-term. If it was truly a long-term project then short-term success had to be sacrificed to some extent. They've then decided they actually want success now and fuck the future and now he is gone. They may walk off with the CL but it will probably not halt the decline.


Just because journos need to fill papers doesn't mean that the club should tell the public what is going on behind closed doors. The sensible thing would be for the review to take place, everything is scrutinised and a strategy is put in place to eradicate the mistakes of last season. Once that is done, the public can be informed. I'll be pissed off if that ends up with them (and Kenny) deciding that a change of manager is required but at least there'll be method to the madness.

I personally believe that if the process is thorough enough, Kenny will still be our manager will full support of the owners. They will take into account the goodwill of the majority of the fans (and pundits) and of the mitigating circumstances that have made us fail this season (in the league). A solitary defeat in Cup competitions shows that we are capable of winning football matches.

What can we do now? Stop the fucking moaning, support Kenny, don't let a few WUMs help turn the heads of Henry & Co.

[Mikie]

Those that say this is a job for kenny.  It's not! He loves the club and all that it stands for, it's far beyond picking up a wage slip at the end of the week, it's  about doing what's right.  He will make the difference and he'll galvanise the club. We've had a tough year, in fact, far to many a difficult year for non football related matters.

Have faith. He will deliver, if not him he'll point in the right direction to who can. 

[AisoD]

Liverpool fans will show 'dignity and grace' if they think it has been shown back.

People can decide themselves from the events or lack of events today if these qualities are being shown by the football club.

What i'm seeing is that the owners are carrying out a thorough review and that whatever arguments Kenny may have put in front of them, they're giving it careful consideration.

I would have been a lot more worried had Kenny flown all the way to Boston, laid out his defence and then was immediately sacked on the spot. That would have shown they had made their mind up before the meeting and hadn't given Kenny a fair hearing.

This season demands accountability. If Liverpool fans can't handle that process without wanting instant decisions, then the problem lies with Liverpool fans and not the owners.

[Vulmea]

Only you've got Tony Barrett writing tonight that Kenny hasn't received any assurances from the owners that he will remain as manager for next season and is currently in limbo.

Personally I'm unusual in this thread in that I don't have massively strong views as to whether Kenny should go or not this summer, I don't have enough information to judge what went wrong this season why it wasn't addressed and what the management team's plans are to address it over the summer and for next season.

Assuming Kenny addresses those issues adequately to the owners I'm sure he'll be back again for another season, if he doesn't he's unlikely to be, assuming the owners expectations are reasonable throughout the process I don't have an issue with that, those are all questions we should be asking after a disappointing season.

The disappointing thing about the whole situation for me has been how much of it has leaked into the public domain rather than being kept in house.

One thing which I've been struggling is that with no knowledge of the game how exactly do FSG undertake a review?

[John C]

I was going to list my genuine concerns about what went wrong last season, but I won't for now even though its possible but not necessarily probable they'll spill over in to next September.

I think the two issues that's hurting people is the gulf in points accumulated leaving us perilously close to being a club worse than Fulham and the seeming inability to get over a handful of extremely bad performances. On about 5 occasions this season we've all gathered on here after a game to describe it as "shocking", "disgraceful" and once even "incompetent" became the description that side-tracked a Saturday evenings discussion.

But mostly we've been unified and astonished about how we hadn't walked away with all three points, surely people haven't forgotten all that all ready. We battered teams, like Arsenal, but lost our soul within the 90 minutes. Was it confidence, fragility or naivety that let us down? I don't know and it doesn't matter anymore because it will only take a couple of good decisions regarding player turn-around and it can all be corrected. It would be far, far worse to take a decision to replace a manager because all of his signings weren't successful. If all clubs did that the LMA would have no members.

More often than not less than 50% of signings are particularly successful - I admit I'm not even happy with Henderson. But its a managers job to put it right, its not a chairman's job to deprive him of that right after 18 months.

I've watched games and I've waited to see a tangible influence from Kenny only to be left disappointed. I've worried why he hasn't worked on partnerships all over the field while dismantling the best at cb. But it doesn't mean everything needs a clean sheet of paper.

And I don't care what anyone says, we've had a shit load of bad luck in so many ways.

Kenny must be given time, and his future isn't in the hands of Gerrard, Henderson or Shelvey. Its in the hands of the 3 players he finds to combine effectively with Lucas and provide creative support for Carroll and Suarez.

[Fat Scouser]

My question, is the Liverpool loyalty to managers thing really has big as can be made out?

I'm not talking about Hodgson at all either.  Souness, Evans, Houllier and Rafa were all pretty much sacked when it was decided they weren't doing well enough.

19 managers since 1892.
Sadly, it's quickened up because of Rafa and his replacement. But some clubs have had 19 managers since 18: 02 pm.

Fuck it. I'm off to me kip. Kenny will still be here at 07:00 when I get up an hopefull he'll still be here in 2013.
Night, night.

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Needs another year. Another year of reshaping sides with new signings and waiting for the team to "gel" certainly isn't the answer. At this rate we will suffer a lifetime of waiting for our team to "gel" if we take the decision to draft in a new manager every 12 months, basically succumbing to the Sky Generation of football.

It's difficult to fend off the masses but we're Liverpool Football Club and if anyone can do it, surefly to fuck we can. It would just about break our backs if we part company with Kenny at this stage. That's my two bobs worth, anyway.

[Rotation]

If Kenny stays that will be brilliant. If he goes then what? Some of you are gonna stop supporting us? Fuck off. We are supporters and besides the rarest of situations (H+G protests) we have little/no impact on how the club is managed. Expect the worst, hope for the best, and support the reds to the hilt no matter what. It's all we've done, its all we do and is the only way we can continue. Expressing an opinion is fine, but fuck off with this apocolyptic end of the world nonsense. The fucking summer ffs, does my head in.

[red saint]

Firstly Kenny still our manager the rest is just media bullshit

If KK believed someone else could do the job better he would quit, and our owners should recognise this fact. They have a manager of immense character and integrity.

The delay in reaffirming Kenny may be a simple way of the owners expressing their dissatisfaction with this season and hopefully a kick up the arse to the players.

The bottom line though is Kenny will only get to January to show significant improvement as we live in times of I want it and want it now culture.

[S7ARZ]

Sacking Kenny would be a poor move by FSG.

This is still a starred topic. That means well thought out posts with carefully constructed arguments rather than a single line of inane drivel.

Anyway. Your statement may be correct if FSG do so without any sort of plan in place for a new manager to come on who is the right man for the job. However, if the plan is in place and has been thought through correctly and the process has been discussed in massive detail between both parties then it won't be such a poor move. I'm sure Kenny won't just back down on the managers job if he doesn't believe it will help move the club forward, as he has always said he will always do what is best for the club.

Edit - Also I don't believe Kenny will be sacked but if they do decide they want a new manager he'll be given another role in the club

[johnny74]

Very difficult position for the owners. From a fan's perspective you can see so many situations where a manager needs to be given time. And yet we've had relegation form since Christmas. That's untenable because if that happens next season we could end up relegated. We really could. You could have Lucas back and you could have a few more signings and we could still be hitting the post and tearing our hair out.

And yet it was only the post, crossbar and nervy finishing that prevented us from being in third place, best of the rest. That nervous behaviour, penalty misses, etc. It's a bug in the system but quite a serious one. And he keeps blaming it on luck. I really hope he doesn't genuinely believe that it's luck because if he does then he's never going to fix it. I hope that he's encouraging sports psychology at Anfield because that's needed in bucketloads.


So the argument is should he get another season? I don't know anymore. I kind of hope he does and things start to gel because for him to give us another league title would bring tears to my eyes.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

If Kenny stays that will be brilliant. If he goes then what? Some of you are gonna stop supporting us? Fuck off. We are supporters and besides the rarest of situations (H+G protests) we have little/no impact on how the club is managed. Expect the worst, hope for the best, and support the reds to the hilt no matter what. It's all we've done, its all we do and is the only way we can continue. Expressing an opinion is fine, but fuck off with this apocolyptic end of the world nonsense. The fucking summer ffs, does my head in.

Indeed we haven't but I do sympathise with those who are despairing to the point of jibbing it.  This is not so much about how the club is run as what football has become.  Where we once had a common mindset I now feel that I have nothing in common with the impatient whining in here.  And more worryingly I am finding that increasingly I have nothing in common with the moaning c*nts who get some supporters club coach up to sit behind me on the Kop every week.

[Peter McGurk]

I'll tell you something straight, I only want to keep Kenny for 2 reasons... 1: Because he wants to stay and we should give him that opportunity. 2: Far more importantly, the big picture of us as a club. I don't want us to become some sack the manager every few seasons, midtable team.

Can Kenny deliver? Let's be honest, that remains to be seen. But as a club, we need to let him try and then see how things have gone at the end of his contract. If he does the business, great. If he fails, well, so be it. We thank him for his efforts. We part company amicably. We move on from there.

That's bound to bring the screams of why wait, if you think he's going to fail. We'll be miles away and might never recover.
Well, I don't believe that will happen. I think things will get no worse. We won't finish lower than this no matter how long Kenny stays. We won't lose touch. The next fella will have about the same chance as Kenny has to restore the club.

We sack him now, that's that. The end of all we used to stand for. We'll have set a precedent that we won't shake. We'll be a sacking club. Anyone who doesn't bring instant success will be dumped. Nobody will ever get the time it takes to build a successful club.

I believe we already started that process when we sacked Rafa. If we do it with Kenny, that's it... bye, bye Liverpool Way. We'll become Chelsea without the dough, not a pleasant prospect.

Great post (and others like it). If this club isn’t about honesty and integrity and defending what and who you believe in - and if that isn’t the Liverpool Way - I want no part of it.

We should give everyone (apart from the shit-stirring media) a break here. I've no doubt the kind of report put in, includes an assessment of this season and recommendations for next (including player appraisals and/or budget). It's just the sort of thing to deliver in person - not stick in the post. And just the sort of thing that doesn't get a quick glance, a pat on the head and a cheque for £60mill in the back pocket.

.

[S7ARZ]

Indeed we haven't but I do sympathise with those who are despairing to the point of jibbing it.  This is not so much about how the club is run as what football has become.  Where we once had a common mindset I now feel that I have nothing in common with the impatient whining in here.  And more worryingly I am finding that increasingly I have nothing in common with the moaning c*nts who get some supporters club coach up to sit behind me on the Kop every week.

I think the frustration has built up over the five years since the last silverware (prior to Carling Cup) and a lot of supporters are reading far too much into all the statistics of that the media are printing day in day out such as 'Our lowest points in 18 years' 'Least wins since 54' (not sure how accurate that one is). But it's starting to seperate those who have a real belief in this club and those who expect glory to be an instant arrival after spending £100m. They should look more into the figures which City have spent and they've only just managed to win the league on the last day of the season after being a big spending club since 2008. The point I'm getting at is they're listening to the media's waffle too much and pushing further unnecessary pressure on the owners and the managers and I think that was part of the reason behind so much being spent on the players we bought.

[TheEru]

What i'm seeing is that the owners are carrying out a thorough review and that whatever arguments Kenny may have put in front of them, they're giving it careful consideration.

I would have been a lot more worried had Kenny flown all the way to Boston, laid out his defence and then was immediately sacked on the spot. That would have shown they had made their mind up before the meeting and hadn't given Kenny a fair hearing.

This season demands accountability. If Liverpool fans can't handle that process without wanting instant decisions, then the problem lies with Liverpool fans and not the owners.

I agree with this. A review of the season is what is needed, and should be done. What things went wrong, what went right etc. How are we going to improve in the future.

If you think someone is the right man for the job 12months ago, he should still be the right person a year down the line (this should be the case for all football clubs and in all positions), unless something drastic occurs. They deliberated for 3 months before offering him a contract, which is the right thing to do. Thus it was not a instant process, they took time to consider.

They said a month ago, he was still the right man for the job, (This is where dignity and respect comes into it). If a month later you allow a media crazy circus to enter into the club, you should quash the rumours. This was not just your run of the mill shitty post-season rumour, it went mental. How can you possibly (potentially) change your stance in a month?

I don't think anyone wants instant decisions, but knee-jerk decisions are not wanted either. I class 'considering' sacking a manager in his first season a knee-jerk decision (in 99 percent of cases).

[Rafa_La]

agree with that, with the provisos - KD has had unprecedented support in terms of player/$$. Has been unable to turn around our form over 5 months or so. There has to be threshold below which time is not given. eg. Hodgson

There's no comparison there.

Remind me which Cups we go to the final of  under Hodgson?

We simply did not.

I dont dispute the end result on the League table is horrible.
Silverware is silverware.

(if I've misunderstood sorry  )