Author Topic: The Kenny Dalglish Discussion (*) - Post A Rumour and Get A Week Off Free  (Read 52532 times)

Offline MichaelA

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Just removed a load of posts that were dragging the thread off topic. I have also removed a load of "agree" and/or "disagree" comments. That isn't the level of debate we're aiming for in this thread. :wave
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Offline davsteer

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If you cut out all the sentiment and say for the sake of it that RH was still the manager, there is no way as many people would be willing to go another season like this.
We can't get caught up and held back because of who the manager is, if the season was a car crash (as it was, cups mean nothing, who did we beat) then we haven't got time for this sentiment. Get someone new in now and give him time to get things right before August. I do have my ideas on who but that's not the subject.
I would be sorry to see kenny go but needs must and being loyal to him, in my mind would be a mistake we can't afford.

Offline lorenzo23

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Downing and Adam are decent players and were worth a punt. Adam was bought for little money in the scheme of things, Downing, well, I haven't given up on him just yet. Look, I wasn't inferring you were FM friendly rather tactics are overated. Kenny believed in his players ability to express rthemselves on the park in some games and they didn't deliver. Is that his fault? Some will say yes, I consider it the 1st step in returning the club to its old mantra of playing for each other, looking out for each other, getting forward, getting back, taking a punt, rather than rigid formations. That takes time to become the norm. Kenny will have learned so much this season. Surely, he should be allowed to implement the changes off the back of that? He doesn't 'deserve' it, he has earned it. The man is no dinosaur. This man is a wily old fox, a survivor and will put it right.

Yes he should as i said what i looking for next season is just that he learn from his mistakes, personally that is the least i think he should do and i would not say its solely his fault the players failed to grab this chance he gave them. Only this i will say is that maybe he should of notice this sooner cause most fans seem to point it out that players don't seem to have a clue what to at all on pitch at time this year and i guess it would be down to Kenny to baby feed them even if that seem wrong or rite.

Also its strange you mention Kenny don't want rigid formation yet buys rigid players in form of Downing and Adam, don't get me wrong they not write off but they certainly not pass and move players.
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cups mean nothing, who did we beat
We beat Chelsea and Man City over two legs to get to the CC Final. Strange thing to say, very strange in fact.
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Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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If you cut out all the sentiment and say for the sake of it that RH was still the manager, there is no way as many people would be willing to go another season like this.
We can't get caught up and held back because of who the manager is, if the season was a car crash (as it was, cups mean nothing, who did we beat) then we haven't got time for this sentiment. Get someone new in now and give him time to get things right before August. I do have my ideas on who but that's not the subject.
I would be sorry to see kenny go but needs must and being loyal to him, in my mind would be a mistake we can't afford.

Erm...  Everton, Man Utd, Spurs, Man City, Chelsea.  Who the fuck did you want us to beat?

Also if you read the thread you would notice that there has been an admonishment about mentioning Roy Hodgson.  The comparison is revealing only in what it says about the poster in all honesty.
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Offline gatcliffe

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We beat Chelsea and Man City over two legs to get to the CC Final. Strange thing to say, very strange in fact.
And also the team across the way and the one down the east lancs road in FA Cup
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Online Tepid water

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the "unlucky" tag that gets bandied about is a bit misleading.  the problem IMO is a draining, all-pervasive, self-perpetuating mentality of failure in front of goal. 

partly its the effect of the crowd's inevitable groans weighing down on players at that crucial moment when the right shot is available.  and partly it's the effect of momentum; in football, often you start as you mean to go on, and a run of positivity and negativity in certain facets of the game can emerge from that.  with anfield bouncing and the team playing spectacularly on the first day of the season, the referee makes a rank, game-changing decision to allow richardson to stay on the pitch, and suarez skies the penalty.  penalty missing became 'form', just as missing sitters became 'form', and getting distracted by terrible decisions became 'form'.  the players expected these things to happen, their instinctive reactions changed almost imperceptibly as a result, and so these things happened.

why didn't kenny sort it? while kenny is no tactical dinosaur, nor is he inept, i think the mental fragility of modern players has come as a surprise to him.  it doesn't help that most of our new players have (of necessity) come from lower league teams (downing, adam, enrique have all lost relegation battles, as has carroll from the bench).  a group of players' reaction to adversity cannot be gauged until they face adversity, and by then you're in the middle of the season and the games come thick and fast, not to mention the debilitating effect of a lying frenchman, a kangaroo court and the 24/7 fucking media.

a summer and a preseason to work on it, and i sincerely think kenny can conquer these demons within the squad.  we do not need a massive overhaul.  we have a top four capable team, and the squad only needs augmenting in a few places. 

what we need more than anything is patience.
Patience......


Indeed.


Now is not the time to be chopping and changing managers, we need stability and loyalty, Kenny beings this in spades.

The football has improved in quality, but we have a constant problem of failing to penetrate teams (especially at home) who let us have the ball and defend deep.

It was ever thus I suppose, but too often we have moved the ball too slowly and we have lacked movement.

How does Kenny solve this?

I'm no football manager, goodness knows how, but sometimes what seem quite deep problems can be solved with the addition of one or two players who change the whole dynamic of the team.
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Offline Fat Scouser

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We beat Chelsea and Man City over two legs to get to the CC Final. Strange thing to say, very strange in fact.
In all truth, I never ever want to see this club playing again the way we did against City. I know we got the result. I know all that counts is the cup on our record. But I swear that was the most embarrassing performance I've ever seen from a Liverpool team. I don't mind fighting a valiant rear guard action, but City were there for the taking and we hung onto the ropes like frightened schoolgirls.
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Offline L666KOP

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He needs another season defo but I do feel he is doing too much, for me he should certainly delegate both pre and post match interviews they seem to stress him out.

Part of me wishes the axe had fallen today, that John Henry had called it a day, the last 48hrs have been unbearable for both us, as fans, and no doubt Kenny as manager.
The modern game dictates results matter now, not in 18months when you've had time to build a squad.
The media bullshit waggon will be in overdrive come the new season, they'll be all over the club like a rash, and guess what, if results start to go against us, the vultures will be circling.
What makes me laugh though, and I know it will happen because I've heard it today with regards to Mcleish, that the very same journalists that will no doubt hound him out of a job will be the first to say we didn't give him enough time.

Kenny has devoted more of his life to this club, and carried more of a burden than any of us could even begin to comprehend, I'm sure there are few that frequent this forum that could even begin to put into words the emotional turmoil he must have felt at times, I'm certainly not eloquent enough. I dread what might happen next season.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Yes he should as i said what i looking for next season is just that he learn from his mistakes, personally that is the least i think he should do and i would not say its solely his fault the players failed to grab this chance he gave them. Only this i will say is that maybe he should of notice this sooner cause most fans seem to point it out that players don't seem to have a clue what to at all on pitch at time this year and i guess it would be down to Kenny to baby feed them even if that seem wrong or rite.

Also its strange you mention Kenny don't want rigid formation yet buys rigid players in form of Downing and Adam, don't get me wrong they not write off but they certainly not pass and move players.

Let's wait to see who actually bought them..... ;)
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Offline Island-Red

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Anybody who thinks Kenny should go, or that it'd be good for the club if Kenny goes is absolutely bonkers.

Just had to say it. I've been reading this board for years, finally signed up and 10-15 posts in I've had it.

The same immature children that were upset and wanted Rafa out when we were beating Real Madrid, Inter, AC Milan, Juventus, Barcelona, winning trophies and challenging for the title are now calling for KENNY DALGLISH'S head.

Remember when we won the european cup, were ranked 1 in europe, won an FA cup, came second in the league? You kids booed that manager. You came on here spouting shite about getting him out after one poor season. Look where that got you. I'm all for free speech but I'm more for learning as you go. What did you little shits learn from the way you treated Rafa?

Have a good look at yourselves. This is outrageous.

Read these lyrics and have a word with yourselves, go ask your father's what their opinion is and learn something. I'm 27, brought up on sky  shit and when I get all wound up I text my dad and he mellows me out, teaches me about the liverpool way and tells me to relax. He talks about building things, doing things in-house, and most importantly supporting the club and the manager.

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And the sweet silver
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Walk on through the rain
 
Though your dreams
Be tossed and blown.
Walk on
Walk on
 
With hope in your hearts
And you'll never walk alone
 
You'll never walk alone.
Walk on
Walk on
 
These words sound great from the kop, but what do they actually mean to you?


Online Tepid water

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In all truth, I never ever want to see this club playing again the way we did against City. I know we got the result. I know all that counts is the cup on our record. But I swear that was the most embarrassing performance I've ever seen from a Liverpool team. I don't mind fighting a valiant rear guard action, but City were there for the taking and we hung onto the ropes like frightened schoolgirls.
I'd rather not see us play that way, I agree.

But, one thing we haven't had much of this season is resilience.


Results like that breed self belief and resilience, so I suppose in some ways they are bad at the time but good for the longer term succes of the team.

It's the kind of game where you need to play on the break, I'm not sure Kenny really sets us up to play on the break.... Probably fairer to say that we actually don't have players good enough to exploit other teams on the break?   Decision making has been poor this season...
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Online Upinsmoke

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The Kenny Dalglish Discussion (*) - Post A Rumour and Get A Week Off Free
« Reply #292 on: May 15, 2012, 10:19:28 PM »
I'm just hoping that Kenny will be a lot more ruthless. I can understand why he constantly played downing, henderson etc. They were his signings, he wanted them to succeed for us, however I think nobody can be given more than one season to bed In. No excuses from the lads that we bought last summer who didn't perform, going into next season its time to pull your fucking socks up. Really hope Kenny gets it right. Little more ruthless.

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Offline Aleeed#

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A lot of narrow thinking around the place. A season is THE WHOLE season, every competition you're involved in.

You have to look at the league as the 'bread and butter' (copyright Sky 1992) and say that it wasn't the best of seasons. We've broken plenty of negative records, but you can all see that we played a good half of the season in the right manner and picked up some notable results. The post Christmas slump is cause for concern, and Kenny will know that more than anybody else. 8th is disappointing, yes.. but a lot of the football this season has deserved a lot more.

The cup runs also need to be examined, two finals, one trophy - inches away from another. I'm delighted with the silverware, and you can see that wherever Kenny has been he has won trophies (which is what this club exists for).

Kenny shouldn't be immune from criticism, but consistency is key. A trophy in the cabinet, one or two adjustments and I think we could be onto a winner.
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Offline horne

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weve seen signs of what kenny can do at LFC....pulled us from the bottom of the league and a slow death to all of us actually dreaming again.
he got us frothing at the mouth with tasty football right up to the evra'gate.
We were attacking teams and creating more chances than anyone else in the league ....bad luck seemed to still be hovering over us like a grey cloud....the latter end of the hicks and gillette storm....kenny was clearing out and bringing in....he still has unfinnished business on that score....joe cole and Aquilani to name two who still drain from kennys potential rebuilding resources,....he lost leiva who was a big big loss....he lost gerrard carroll and suarez for major chunks of the season at key times too...then he loses charlie adam...all up.....he had no chance of pleasing the critics in one season given what happened during that season....kenny needs time and backing if you want to see this club back on its feet and stable enough to have a base to grow from...that is an absolute fact....he is the only one that could have put a smile back on everyones face and he did ....not only did he turn the club around in the press conferences and by that i mean the previous
' tail wagging the dog 'situation we had with Hodgo...but he got us to two finals and won us a trophy...
for all the criticism he is getting at the moment from those that dont really get the club nor care about it...remember that there are more losing managers at other clubs .
mancini escapes the dogs abuse because he wins the league
ferguson also, because of his past success (so playing by the same rules doesnt kenny?)(ferguson has bought more duds than kenny by a country mile but that doesnt really get noticed by the press or fans of other teams  because they dont want to see that do they?....and the kenny buys may ,and i believe will, come good next season after bedding in ,because they have shown good signs of this towards the end of this season?)
the glass is 'half empty' brigade need to realise that if they appraise the situation with  different mindset,a more realistic one...they may realise that things arent really that bad...and we drank from a 'half full' peice of silverware this season...how many others can say the same?

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Offline L666KOP

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I'm just hoping that Kenny will be a lot more ruthless. I can understand why he constantly played downing, henderson etc. They were his signings, he wanted them to succeed for us, however I think nobody can be given more than one season to bed In. No excuses from the lads that we bought last summer who didn't perform, going into next season its time to pull your fucking socks up. Really hope Kenny gets it right. Little more ruthless.

We need a sacrificial lamb.
A 'Kenny' signing that hasn't worked, a player that has quite obviously not made the grade.
And if we take a 10m pound hit on him, who fucking cares, it might well be the kick up the fucking arse they all need.
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Offline Digger2God

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Anybody who thinks Kenny should go, or that it'd be good for the club if Kenny goes is absolutely bonkers.

Just had to say it. I've been reading this board for years, finally signed up and 10-15 posts in I've had it.

The same immature children that were upset and wanted Rafa out when we were beating Real Madrid, Inter, AC Milan, Juventus, Barcelona, winning trophies and challenging for the title are now calling for KENNY DALGLISH'S head.

Remember when we won the european cup, were ranked 1 in europe, won an FA cup, came second in the league? You kids booed that manager. You came on here spouting shite about getting him out after one poor season. Look where that got you. I'm all for free speech but I'm more for learning as you go. What did you little shits learn from the way you treated Rafa?

Have a good look at yourselves. This is outrageous.

Read these lyrics and have a word with yourselves, go ask your father's what their opinion is and learn something. I'm 27, brought up on sky  shit and when I get all wound up I text my dad and he mellows me out, teaches me about the liverpool way and tells me to relax. He talks about building things, doing things in-house, and most importantly supporting the club and the manager.

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark.
 
At the end of the storm
There's a golden sky
And the sweet silver
Song of a lark.
 
Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
 
Though your dreams
Be tossed and blown.
Walk on
Walk on
 
With hope in your hearts
And you'll never walk alone
 
You'll never walk alone.
Walk on
Walk on
 
These words sound great from the kop, but what do they actually mean to you?

With all due respect, I think it is perfectly fine for people to voice their opinion as long as they do it with respect.  Based on how the season turned out (not just league position and stats, but also the general play of the team), it is not insane to consider that some people want Kenny to step down.  As long as they voice their opinion with respect to the King and his legacy, I find no qualms with people expressing that view.  I think it is a bit rude to call people shite when they are perfectly within their means to express such an opinion. 
RAWK which you ain't....

Offline Shauno

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There has been so much conjecture and media speculation (which has inevitably filtered through to here) that I could easily believe that mainstream media could just have an agenda against either Liverpool, Or Kenny Dalglish for his no nonsense attitude.

Rafa Benitez had his fair share of bad press in the past, as have other managers, but there are so many fans who rely on the media to keep them informed on current sporting events that at times, the media can create the news, in a sense.

If I look back at a lot of spec-media in the past, I could easily say it's 50/50, the media speculate, if they "get it right", jobs a goodun, if they get it wrong someone somewhere has done a U-Turn.

Unfortunately for us LFC fans, some people like to think of themselves as "media savvy" and invest time and effort in attempting to speculate, which leads to the same output, more speculation.

I don't know what I find more frustrating, the fact that speculation is filling the blank void of information coming from FSG, or the fact that FSG are  allowing this blank void to generate; which may sound two of the same thing, but they are not.

Most of the arguments seem to base around Pre and Post Rafa Benitez, which is infuriating as people are trying to fill a blank void before that blank void is empty, so to speak. So while this much tiresome argument of Rafa, with little regard for our current manager, i'll speculate myself by saying that if Kenny goes, Rafa Benitez will not be "re-instated" as manager.

Some people need to get a grip and see that they are only regurgitating old arguments and old agendas, stop looking back and look forward, wise up and don't let mainstream media control your emotions.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 10:38:35 PM by Shauno »
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Offline RoverAndOut

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Kenny deserves at least one more season IMO.

Obviously Liverpool's league form has been very disappointing this year, but winning a cup competition is nothing to be sniffed at. Kenny will know where the weaknesses in the squad lie, if the Americans back him with some cash I don't think he'll make the same mistakes as last summer. I guess he has to convince them he can sign players that can have more initial impact than his last batch of signings. Think players like Henderson and Carroll will show their worth in time, but now you need players who can hit the ground running and make an instant impact. An out and out goalscorer such as Papiss Cisse would solve a ton of Liverpool's problems.

I think removing Dalglish now would be a massive mistake. I hope you keep him on. If next season turns out similar to his league-wise perhaps Kenny will have to have a rethink about whether he's up to the manager's role full-time or whether he should revert back to his previous role and let somebody else have a crack at leading the team. Either way Dalglish should always be on hand to give advice and inspiration. 

Offline sideshowme

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In all truth, I never ever want to see this club playing again the way we did against City. I know we got the result. I know all that counts is the cup on our record. But I swear that was the most embarrassing performance I've ever seen from a Liverpool team. I don't mind fighting a valiant rear guard action, but City were there for the taking and we hung onto the ropes like frightened schoolgirls.

interestingly, when i voiced this opinion at the time i was banned for two weeks and told to learn my history.  i'm glad that at least one poster who goes back a little further than me shares my view.

what it does show at least is that kenny is tactically flexible, even if he is somewhat conservative.  yes, he played andy carroll as a centre back for the second half, but it got the job done.  kenny and clarke's tactical flexibility is very underrated, even this season.  what we have surely lacked is the squad to allow him to be as flexible as he would like, largely as a result of injuries and suspensions.  really, it all comes back to lucas, the rock around which kenny built.  when even your rock gets washed away, you know you're going to be struggling against the tide.

patience.
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Offline Simon C

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I've been thinking about this all day and there are things that Kenny has done very well and there are something's in my opinion he has dealt with very badly.

On the positive he has reunited the club and it feels like everyone is pulling in the same direction. He has also brought the dignity back to the club that was sadly lacking during the reign of Hicks & Gillett.
There have been things happen that have been out of his control 5 missed penalties and the woodwork rattled 30 times. Key injuries at key times also haven't helped.
I also don't tink he should be pilloried for the signings and the money spent, granted he identified the players however Comoli payed the ludicrous fees. He also can't be blamed for some players failing to understand what playing for Liverpool.
First trophy in 6 years was a real boost and instills a winning mentality to the squad.

The negatives for me are the handing of the Suarez saga it couldn't have been handled any worse, he didn't take the time to fully understand the issue before engaging with the press. On the whole I feel his media interactions have been poor and at times misguided.
There has also been a lack of tactical awareness and no plan b when tactics were clearly not working FA cup final a prime example when he left it far to long to bring on Andy Carroll.
League performance was woeful with a lack of imagination in many games and the tactical know how on how to break teams also lacking.

Personally due to the lck of an outstanding candidate, I'd give Kenny one more season. People who think Gaudiola will be manager are in cloud cuckoo land.

I guess the next 24 to 48 hours will give greater clarity on the situation.


Offline rafathegaffa83

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Well to be fair that's a problem in itself, if they can't get rid of him and he's not the right man for the job then we're up the creek without a paddle. We'd basically be at he behest of Kenny and when he realised his time was due. Which i'd argue isn't in the best interests of this club.

I'm not certain about him at all, clearly he's got the best interests at heart for the club but I think there's a fundamental issue within the spirit of this team that is going to take some shifting. With the added massive question marks over the transfers and the complete collapse of form I'm very much in the undecided/unconvinced camp.

He deserves a second season but for me there can be no room for sentiment if the improvement isn't there, and there's a smaller part that thinks that giving him that second season just prolongs the serious job of rebuilding because sure as shit the manager after Kenny is going to be in 'rebuilding' phase for the umpteenth time in 20+ years.

Great post. Completely agree. I think if he is staying, but has a poor start next season within the first ten or so games, I don't think the owners would think twice of letting him go. Which is why comes back to the fact of does he really need all the bother?

...

Nah, Tusk is better.

Offline Niru Red4ever

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The thing is that a lot of us seem to feel that getting rid of Kenny would be best for the club because of one poor season. It seems so weird coz only two seasons back something similar was done and everything went downhill.

The season certainly didn't pan out as most of us hoped for; but we have a proven manager - removing him after one year is not the answer (on the other hand getting a better attacking coach may be a part of the answer, and selling Downing and Spearing IMO).
Would love the 19th; but would love even more to see a fan owned LFC.

Offline Bouncer

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I dunno, I mean surely posting one-liners in a starred topic has to be frowned upon?!!  ;D :wave

And for my tuppence worth, I've never known a single poster reflect my own personal opinions as closely as Fat Scouser.  All the folks out there who can't help their knee-jerking and don't understand the philosophies of this club and it's (true) support would do well to read and understand exactly what Leo is saying.  Leo, well written posts mate and I 100% agree with every word from Kenny to Rafa, to the owners and to the club.

Have patience people, I believe that in Kenny and these owners we now have the right people to make the right decisions for Liverpool Football Club.  We just have to support the club and show belief that any decisions made/to be made were in the best interests of the club and it's support.

Personally, I believe we still have the wrong owners, thats my opinion ... does Kenny realise this in the same way Rafa called out H&G? I dont know ... but Kenny is a canny, intelligent fellah ... and its obvious he's hurting.

Their lack of support for OUR club, Kenny and Suarez during the Evra debacle should not be forgotten, I know I certainly havent ... or forgiven.

Failure to invest during the last transfer window when we desperately needed cover for Leiva was something else.

Kenny has made errors, notably a penchant to select Downing time and again when we might as well have had 10 players on the park.

But that is nothing compared to the hope, relief and joy Kenny Dalglish brought back to the club after the dismal dark days of Hodgson and the cancers

I support Kenny Dalglish as our manager and resident legend and truly, truly hope he takes care of himself over the coming days, weeks and months as the despicable British press try to hound him out of the job like the harpies they are.

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Offline Percito

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Right, it looks like Kenny is staying for another season. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't stepped down, but that's the end of it for now. Clean slate. Let's see what he can do in the transfer market without the poisonous dead hand of Comolli and his simplistic statistical analysis and Brit-fetish. Let's see if he truly has the balls to drop the likes of Carragher once and for all, and blood new players. What does he have to lose? Another season without fourth and he's gone, and he sure as shit isn't going to achieve that by continuing in the same vein.

Offline lfcmaster

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I'm just hoping that Kenny will be a lot more ruthless. I can understand why he constantly played downing, henderson etc. They were his signings, he wanted them to succeed for us, however I think nobody can be given more than one season to bed In. No excuses from the lads that we bought last summer who didn't perform, going into next season its time to pull your fucking socks up. Really hope Kenny gets it right. Little more ruthless.



interesting stats with henderson he played 37 games and shelvey only played 12

Offline placidcasual

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I realise I am in the minority and I love Dalglish and respect everything he has done for the club (especially after Hillsborough) but I honestly think it is for the best that he is replaced as manager.

He started off brilliantly until results dipped off in April 2011 and to be honest the results have been dire since then. Less league goals than Blackburn Rovers, lower in the table than Everton, closer to relegation than the top 4and 6 home wins all season. The players seem uninspired, the tactics often look clueless when things are going wrong in matches and persisting with players who are under performing instead of giving the likes of Sterling decent game time are hugely frustrating. Carroll has to talk some blame for his own form but he his been misused and under utlilised.

However my main concern is transfer policy. Dalglish admitted responsibility for signing Adam, Henderson and Downing who have all frankly been dreadful. Most observers were baffled when so much money was spent on them - the 'Buy British' policy was a farce. He managed Liverpool and Blackburn when the league was almost exclusively the preserve of British and Irish players. His European experience at Liverpool was curtailed because of the European ban and he failed miserably in Europe with Blackburn. I honestly don't think he has the knowledge to sign up and coming European talent. As a result the club pays over the odds for second-rate players. A manager like Benitez has an Encyclopaedic knowledge of the type of player that can restore some lustre to the club and provide a sizable profit if they ever want to move on.

I don't understand the mentality of those who say that you are betraying the club if you want Dalglish to be replaced. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect the opinion of those who want Dalglish to stay on. What I don't respect however is those who say keep him because of what he has done for the club in the past. It is possible to fully appreciate and thank him for that but to want what is best for the club going forward. It makes me sad that I want to see Dalglish replaced with a top European manager but I do.

YNWA

Offline -Q-

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If you cut out all the sentiment and say for the sake of it that RH was still the manager, there is no way as many people would be willing to go another season like this.
We can't get caught up and held back because of who the manager is, if the season was a car crash (as it was, cups mean nothing, who did we beat) then we haven't got time for this sentiment. Get someone new in now and give him time to get things right before August. I do have my ideas on who but that's not the subject.
I would be sorry to see kenny go but needs must and being loyal to him, in my mind would be a mistake we can't afford.

You simply can not compare Hodgson's 36 year career managing beige, middle of the road teams with a manager who has himself won more silverware than Chelsea FC in their history and is amongst only three managers to have won the English league with two different clubs. 

The results last year were not good enough, but you have to assess why that was.  Many many occasions, we were playing well but drawing games that should have been put to bed.  You can't put that on the manager... I was going to go into a litany of reasons why we finished 8th, few of which can be put at Kenny's door.  I fear it will fall on deaf ears, so I'll save meself the bother.
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Online Tepid water

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Yes.

Had a drink with them after their Rumours show in 1979 while a student barman in Hammersmith.  Great summer I had.

Back on topic.  Why anyone (even those who were afraid of the ramifications when Kenny got the permanent job) thinks it might be sensible to change horse midstream is beyond help.
I think it's pertinent to remember that almost no that chops and changes managers does well in anything but the short team...
That being said, if things still aren't going well by Xmas does anyone think that the axe won't fall?

The Suarez affair was the turning point of our season, it was all so very badly handelled.......

I know we loved the response in here, but sometimes it's better to apologise for anything and everything even if you don't mean it....

It would have meant a huge difference for us.

Still, can't see it happening again unless we sign messi
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Offline -Q-

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However my main concern is transfer policy. Dalglish admitted responsibility for signing Adam, Henderson and Downing who have all frankly been dreadful. Most observers were baffled when so much money was spent on them - the 'Buy British' policy was a farce.

Think you mean that 'Buy British - except for Enrique, Suarez, Coates, and Doni' policy.
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Offline Live in the Now

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One major problem I have is the talking about Kenny's position being up for review in mid-season should things not be going swimmingly, is that not the worst possible thing the club could do?

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I will add one more thing of note and that's I think the owners need to clarify this before Kenny goes on his hols. It would be really shitty for him and us to leave that hanging over what I would class as 'family time'.
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Back on topic.  Why anyone (even those who were afraid of the ramifications when Kenny got the permanent job) thinks it might be sensible to change horse midstream is beyond help.
I'll tell you something straight, I only want to keep Kenny for 2 reasons... 1: Because he wants to stay and we should give him that opportunity. 2: Far more importantly, the big picture of us as a club. I don't want us to become some sack the manager every few seasons, midtable team.

Can Kenny deliver? Let's be honest, that remains to be seen. But as a club, we need to let him try and then see how things have gone at the end of his contract. If he does the business, great. If he fails, well, so be it. We thank him for his efforts. We part company amicably. We move on from there.

That's bound to bring the screams of why wait, if you think he's going to fail. We'll be miles away and might never recover.
Well, I don't believe that will happen. I think things will get no worse. We won't finish lower than this no matter how long Kenny stays. We won't lose touch. The next fella will have about the same chance as Kenny has to restore the club.

We sack him now, that's that. The end of all we used to stand for. We'll have set a precedent that we won't shake. We'll be a sacking club. Anyone who doesn't bring instant success will be dumped. Nobody will ever get the time it takes to build a successful club.

I believe we already started that process when we sacked Rafa. If we do it with Kenny, that's it... bye, bye Liverpool Way. We'll become Chelsea without the dough, not a pleasant prospect.
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Offline Carlito Roberto

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Coates and Doni I'll give you. Enrique was playing in the Premier League and my point was about having a continental knowledge. I don't think Kenny had much input into the Suarez deal.
Kenny was widely reported to have been on several scouting missions to watch Suarez himself.

Offline sideshowme

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re: Kenny- - we live in a "what have you done for me lately world".  If we start out poor next season, many of those rejoicing that he kept his job this summer will be on here calling for his head.  It's the nature of the beast.

that's verging on the nonsensical.  people who rejoice that kenny is not given the boot in summer 2012 after a poor performance are the ones who will be demanding he gets the boot in winter 2012 after a poor performance?
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Offline horne

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I've been thinking about this all day and there are things that Kenny has done very well and there are something's in my opinion he has dealt with very badly.

On the positive he has reunited the club and it feels like everyone is pulling in the same direction. He has also brought the dignity back to the club that was sadly lacking during the reign of Hicks & Gillett.
There have been things happen that have been out of his control 5 missed penalties and the woodwork rattled 30 times. Key injuries at key times also haven't helped.
I also don't tink he should be pilloried for the signings and the money spent, granted he identified the players however Comoli payed the ludicrous fees. He also can't be blamed for some players failing to understand what playing for Liverpool.
First trophy in 6 years was a real boost and instills a winning mentality to the squad.

The negatives for me are the handing of the Suarez saga it couldn't have been handled any worse, (IF SUAREZ IS STILL WITH US NEXT SEASON...KENNY PLAYED A BLINDER AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED!)he didn't take the time to fully understand the issue before engaging with the press.On the whole I feel his media interactions have been poor and at times misguided. KENNY CONTROLLED THE MEDIA,THEY DIDNT CONTROL HIM....THEY COULDNT HANDLE KENNY...THEY WANTED AN AGENDA DRIVEN STORY TO DERAIL AND DESTRUCT THE CLUB HE WOULDNT FALL IN LINE WITH THAT AGENDA!
There has also been a lack of tactical awareness and no plan b when tactics were clearly not working FA cup final a prime example when he left it far to long to bring on Andy Carroll.DEAD EASY TO SAY AFTER THE EVENT WITH HINDSIGHT..WHAT HAPPENS IF ANDY CARROLL BAGS A WINNER ?...CAME VERY CLOSE TO BRINGING THAT EVENTUALITY IN THE FORM OF AN EQUALISER AND PUTTING THEM RIGHT ON THE BACK FOOT! WERE TALKING THE SMALLEST OF FRACTIONS AND YET THE CRITICISM COMES PILING IN?....WHY?
League performance was woeful with a lack of imagination in many games and the tactical know how on how to break teams also lacking.ARE YOU FOR REAL...KENNY DOESNT KNOW HOW TO BREAK TEAMS DOWN?....HE DID IT FOR YEARS AS A PLAYER...AND THEN WENT ON AND SLAUGHTERED TEAMS AS A MANAGER?

Personally due to the lck of an outstanding candidate, I'd give Kenny one more season. People who think Gaudiola will be manager are in cloud cuckoo land.

I guess MISTAKES 'MAY' BE MADE IN BY  the next 24 to 48 hours will give greater clarity on the situation....HOPE THE AMERICANS HAVE MORE NOUSE THAN SOME OF THOSE THAT HAVE COMMENTED ON LFC THIS SEASON ...KENNY IS REFERRED TO THE KING FOR A REASON...HE KNOWS A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS GAME THAN SOME ARE GIVING HIM CREDIT FOR...THE GAME HASNT CHANGED AS MUCH AS SOME ARE MAKING OUT....THE GREAT BARCA TEAM THAT THEY ARE WAXING LYRICALLY ABOUT HAVE BEEN PUTTING TEAMS TO THE SWORD BY MAINTAINING POSESSION AND WEARING DOWN THE OTHER TEAM....WONDER WHO WAS DOING THAT DURING THE GOOD OL DAYS OF THE SEVENTIES AND EIGHTIES ...THE LIVERPOOL WAY?


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Offline Pheeny

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Offline Fluke

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I'll tell you something straight, I only want to keep Kenny for 2 reasons... 1: Because he wants to stay and we should give him that opportunity. 2: Far more importantly, the big picture of us as a club. I don't want us to become some sack the manager every few seasons, midtable team.

Can Kenny deliver? Let's be honest, that remains to be seen. But as a club, we need to let him try and then see how things have gone at the end of his contract. If he does the business, great. If he fails, well, so be it. We thank him for his efforts. We part company amicably. We move on from there.

That's bound to bring the screams of why wait, if you think he's going to fail. We'll be miles away and might never recover.
Well, I don't believe that will happen. I think things will get no worse. We won't finish lower than this no matter how long Kenny stays. We won't lose touch. The next fella will have about the same chance as Kenny has to restore the club.

We sack him now, that's that. The end of all we used to stand for. We'll have set a precedent that we won't shake. We'll be a sacking club. Anyone who doesn't bring instant success will be dumped. Nobody will ever get the time it takes to build a successful club.

I believe we already started that process when we sacked Rafa. If we do it with Kenny, that's it... bye, bye Liverpool Way. We'll become Chelsea without the dough, not a pleasant prospect.

That's the nail on the head. Under Roy, you could see us drifting further and further away. We don't have that situation with Kenny. Giving someone new a chance will be the same now as it will be 3 years from now. I hope we are still a club that recognises that, and the owners see that.
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Offline the_red_pill

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the "buy (young) british" was a policy that already started in the last season of Rafa (Barry - Alonso saga) because of the new regulation regarding the nationalities and playing in Europe (I forgot the actual name).  It is not a "Kenny loves his brits" policy, it is club strategy policy to avoid any problem when we play in Europe
"homegrown rule", GBF; and yes- it started back then. Rafa alluded in his interviews back then that our focus is shifting.

We looked at Barry and we bought Glen as well as the first of our talented big-money, high-priority British kids- Shelvey. It's not something new, its been on the cards for a while. It just turned out that the owners had money to spend and so we took the first step towards it.

I for one don't think it would be wise to let go of our players this summer. Dirk, I grant you, but we are building a squad and a first team here and the existing players are good enough backups. It's something that I've been saying since last summer- the current players are not supposed to all be 1st team players, they will become tomorrow's squad players.

People shouldn't just jump to sell left,right and center. We're a thin squad and if we sell our players, we will never have the depth to improve on our end-of-season runs. I suppose all those who are calling for Henderson, Carrol, Adam and Downing to go, want to go through the same run of results since February this year?

Nope? Didn't think so...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 11:07:34 PM by the_red_pill »

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Online Tepid water

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There's nothing for the club to confirm or deny.....


Kenny is the manager, he's still the manager, he will be manager next season.


Why do you need a press release to confirm that Kenny is still the manager?  You only need a press release to confirm he's gone?

A whole load of silly rumours that have come form nothing and have been blown wildly out of proportion and people have panicked for no reason...

Weird.

Kenny will improve the side next season, that's for sure.

Whether that will be enough to keep his job long term is a different question, but that leap to fourth place is a manager goal for us in our progression.
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