Author Topic: Could Hodgson be a success for England? (Read 28415 times)

Anfield Kopite · « **Reply #80 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:28:52 PM »

If i was Hodgson id leave the old guard out. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand are all past their best. They have been mainstays of the England side for a decade and even when they were at their peak England havent come close to winning a tournament. Tell the press your building for the next world cup and are not gonna take anyone over 30.

As for being a success, i expect them to get through their group (probably as runners up) and then go out in the last 8. This is an average performance in my opinion but as the press wanted 'Arry and didnt get him they will probably crucify him for it.

Personally im not really arsed how England get on. Im English (well not really im scouse) but dont really care about the national side. As long as no Liverpool player picks up an injury that puts them out of the start of the season ill be happy,

snoop123 · « **Reply #81 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:33:54 PM »

Agreed. I'd also like to see the old guard dropped too, and usher in a new wave of younger players. But that will take a strong manager to drop those, something which hodgson is not.

I fully expect all 4 of them to be in the final squad.

Anfield Kopite · « **Reply #82 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:39:37 PM »

Quote from: snoop123 on May 10, 2012, 06:33:54 PM

Agreed. I'd also like to see the old guard dropped too, and usher in a new wave of younger players. But that will take a strong manager to drop those, something which hodgson is not.

I fully expect all 4 of them to be in the final squad.

Yeah its what i think he should do. Not a chance he will though,

Megasuperb · « **Reply #83 on:** May 12, 2012, 03:20:39 AM »

Anyones seen this?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/s-v2wJf_hMk" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/s-v2wJf_hMk</a>

rafathegaffa83 · « **Reply #84 on:** May 12, 2012, 03:37:28 AM »

Quote from: Anfield Kopite on May 10, 2012, 06:28:52 PM

If i was Hodgson id leave the old guard out. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand are all past their best. They have been mainstays of the England side for a decade and even when they were at their peak England havent come close to winning a tournament. Tell the press your building for the next world cup and are not gonna take anyone over 30.

As for being a success, i expect them to get through their group (probably as runners up) and then go out in the last 8. This is an average performance in my opinion but as the press wanted 'Arry and didnt get him they will probably crucify him for it.

Personally im not really arsed how England get on. Im English (well not really im scouse) but dont really care about the national side. As long as no Liverpool player picks up an injury that puts them out of the start of the season ill be happy,

Quote from: snoop123 on May 10, 2012, 06:33:54 PM

Agreed. I'd also like to see the old guard dropped too, and usher in a new wave of younger players. But that will take a strong manager to drop those, something which hodgson is not.

I fully expect all 4 of them to be in the final squad.

Hodgson won't drop the old guard. It goes fully against his record and approach at clubs like Fulham and West Brom. It further shows the FA's ridiculously short-term thinking with this hire. This summer it will be one final fling for the remaining members of the "Golden Generation" to be followed by World Cup qualification featuring a group of players, who with the exception of a handful of players (i.e. Rooney) have been largely undercapped and underrepresented at international level, but are now in and around their peak years: Lescott age 29 (14 caps), Baines age 27 (7 caps), Cahill age 26 (8 caps), Ashley Young age 26 (19 caps), Phil Jagielka age 29 (10 caps), Scott Parker age 31 (11 caps).

To be truly successful, the England manager needs to do two things: 1) not listen to the media 2) pick on merit, rather than reputation, even if that means selecting people who play outside the Top 4 or have little CL experience. It would put a premium on consistency and form, which might mean more players from less fashionable clubs would get picked based on merit, resulting in a better team, rather than group of individuals. Additionally, it could prevent the usual media frenzy as the manager tries to wedge high-profile media darling square pegs into round holes.

BFM · « **Reply #85 on:** May 12, 2012, 05:44:26 AM »

England's Euro campaign is going to be a train wreck

something awful · « **Reply #86 on:** May 12, 2012, 06:50:48 AM »

I watched a Hodgson press conference a few hours ago, just because I'd forgotten what his voice sounds like (mercifully) and all these impressions were getting worse by the second. Jesus he can turn a quick question into a monologue.

I can't see it working. Unless he walks in there and tells anyone who's shit to fuck off irrespective of their history, and starts building a team phasing out the old guard and bringing along the new, he's just gonna have an old shit team. And Capello, who told David Beckham to get the fuck out of Madrid, couldn't do it. As mentioned before, it's not Hodgson's way.

Mirra · « **Reply #87 on:** May 12, 2012, 08:17:53 AM »

Uncle Hodgson will probally be a success, can feel it in my bones! Just to piss us off and make us look like the nasty club who treat old man Hodgson like shit. Just watch!

DanielAggersEar · « **Reply #88 on:** May 12, 2012, 09:57:38 AM »

I hope he does well, if nothing elee to show how evil the sun is for having ago at him in his first press conference.

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #89 on:** May 12, 2012, 10:05:05 AM »

Quote from: Mirra on May 12, 2012, 08:17:53 AM

Uncle Hodgson will probally be a success, can feel it in my bones! Just to piss us off and make us look like the nasty club who treat old man Hodgson like shit. Just watch!

I'll be over the worst of it fairly shortly. As long as he's nowhere near our club.

Les Willis · « **Reply #90 on:** May 12, 2012, 10:18:23 AM »

I just can't see how Roy's methods can translate at the highest level. It didn't work when he was here and that's either because the players didn't/couldn't/wouldn't adapt to his system or he didn't have enough time to establish his system. If that's the case, then I can't see how he can instill his methods in the small amount of time that he'll get with the Squad.
The only positive thing about this appointment is that he isn't Stuart Pearce.

MagicHat · « **Reply #91 on:** May 12, 2012, 10:31:25 AM »

Quote from: Les Willis on May 12, 2012, 10:18:23 AM

or he didn't have enough time to establish his system. If that's the case, then I can't see how he can instill his methods in the small amount of time that he'll get with the Squad.

That was a concern I had but he has done fairly well at international level so time shouldn't be an issue beyond these Euro's.

As for if we will see the youngsters, unless Hodgson is going to start that player then probably not given the Olympics. That may give some of the old guard one last chance but I had written off the Euro's anyway, I think world cup qualifying is where we will see Hodgson's willingness or not to go for youth, for better or worse.

robgomm · « **Reply #92 on:** May 12, 2012, 11:10:09 AM »

Another HOdgson thread.

Hunter Thompson · « **Reply #93 on:** May 12, 2012, 11:22:42 AM »

He could be, but he probably won't be.

reniformis · « **Reply #94 on:** May 12, 2012, 12:59:32 PM »

The thing about Hodgson is that he isn't average because he's average, he's average because he either massively overachieves under low expectation, or massively underachieves under high expectation. Therefore when averaged out, he's average. He's one of the most divisive managers on the planet. I predict he'll only just fail to make it through the group stage, or get through to the quarters and only just be knocked out by Spain or Italy. There'll be a hard-luck story either way, and half the press and half the fans will defend him, the other half will want him put in stocks and pelted with rotten owl carcasses. Like his career so far. He is what he is.

Tony18:5 · « **Reply #95 on:** May 12, 2012, 05:09:49 PM »

Thing is, nobody wanted him, so the expectation of this guy is so low that he can't really lose.

If he say gets to say a semi-final then he'll be lauded to the rooftops.

If he completely flops as expected then he'll just blame someone else.

Personally I don't care.

KirkVanHouten · « **Reply #96 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:15:01 AM »

Can't see it myself. Had a mate tell me he does well in pressure situations i.e. relegation battles, I couldn't believe what I heard. I tried to tell him about how poorly he floundered with us and how hopeless he was with the media. When the pressure builds the man is going to blame the players, the same way he did with Agger and Johnson.

Coolie High · « **Reply #97 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:37:46 AM »

Quote from: 1021 on May 10, 2012, 02:38:19 AM

Your list of 'some of the best in Europe' consists of a goalkeeper, a midfielder who won't be fit for the Euros and though talented is unproven at the highest level, a midfielder struggling for fitness whose best days are a long way behind him, and Wayne Rooney. So one 'game changer' who'll be suspended for the first two games of what will prove to be a three game tournament for England.

Compare that to the wealth of talent Spain, Germany, and the Netherlands have over and it's really not very impressive, especially when you consider that some of England's better players (in form) will almost certainly be left out on account of the manager, Glen Johnson, Joleon Lescott, etc.

I'd argue there are at least six countries with better squads than England heading to the Euros. They've no chance of challenging for the title with the players they have at this stage and when it comes to the World Cup in two years time you'll have to add Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, et al to the list of competitors who will be comfortably better equipped to challenge for honours than England.

What six nations have better squads than England? For one Netherlands are at a pretty similar standard to England, they have a FEW standout players in RVP, Sneijder, and Robben but then take a look at their defence and the rest of their midfield and it isn't anything special to be honest.

Uruguay also may be better equipped but individually they don't have better players than England.

something awful · « **Reply #98 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:52:49 AM »

Quote from: Coolie High on May 13, 2012, 05:37:46 AM

Uruguay also may be better equipped but individually they don't have better players than England.

1) Yes they do.

2) Even if you're convinced they don't, they play as a team with their own philosophy and England don't.

Mouth · « **Reply #99 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:56:27 AM »

Quote from: Tony18:5 on May 12, 2012, 05:09:49 PM

Thing is, nobody wanted him, so the expectation of this guy is so low that he can't really lose.

Yes he can, he is really good at losing.

Coolie High · « **Reply #100 on:** May 13, 2012, 06:30:58 AM »

Quote from: something awful on May 13, 2012, 05:52:49 AM

1) Yes they do.

2) Even if you're convinced they don't, they play as a team with their own philosophy and England don't.

1. No they don't

2. I was arguing England have underachieved and been mismanaged when you look at the players they've had at their disposal

BEAST · « **Reply #101 on:** May 13, 2012, 07:00:23 AM »

Quote from: BFM on May 12, 2012, 05:44:26 AM

England's Euro campaign is going to be a train wreck

define "trainwreck". Do you consider getting out of the group a trainwreck? What about going 1-1-1 and finishing 3rd and missing the QF's is that a 'trainwreck' or is trainwreck going winless in all 3 group games??

i guess we need to define what "success" is. If it's getting to the semi's then he'll probably fail, they only have like a 25-35% chance of doing that. If it means getting out of the group stages cause the bar is so low, then he probably will.

If it's to overhaul the whole approach to football the way Germany did 10 years ago then he's obviously going to be a massive failure (as would probably anyone as the FA is a disaster)

something awful · « **Reply #102 on:** May 13, 2012, 07:09:52 AM »

Quote from: Coolie High on May 13, 2012, 06:30:58 AM

1. No they don't

2. I was arguing England have underachieved and been mismanaged when you look at the players they've had at their disposal

Suarez, Cavani, Hernandez, Forlan, Ramirez, Lodeiro, Hernandez, Gonzalez are better than Rooney, Carroll, Defoe, Gerrard, Lampard, Milner, Walcott, Downing and Young. Defence is a wash, since Rio is a crock, Terry might not play (and is shite), Johnson probably won't play and the rest are mediocre bar Cole and Hart.

The bigger issue is that England players under Sven, McClaren, Capello and now Roy Hodgson are mercenaries and weak minded. Look at Terry undermining Capello in the last world cup, the amount of players calling for Redknapp after Capello went. Then there's the complete folding at the second round or quarter final stage every time, the stupid red card and the penalty shoot out loss. I would take Uruguay every time over England.

Torpedo Tommy · « **Reply #103 on:** May 13, 2012, 08:42:47 AM »

Having suffered the beginning of last season it's a resounding no.......

.....and I'll sit back with me tin of Stella and watch it all unfold

MagicHat · « **Reply #104 on:** May 13, 2012, 12:42:00 PM »

Quote from: BEAST on May 13, 2012, 07:00:23 AM

define "trainwreck". Do you consider getting out of the group a trainwreck? What about going 1-1-1 and finishing 3rd and missing the QF's is that a 'trainwreck' or is trainwreck going winless in all 3 group games??

i guess we need to define what "success" is. If it's getting to the semi's then he'll probably fail, they only have like a 25-35% chance of doing that. If it means getting out of the group stages cause the bar is so low, then he probably will.

I thought we would struggle to escape the group under Capello and given Hodgson has such limited time, I'm hardly going to demand he does better then that. So for me, getting out of the group would be a success this time round

Hunter Thompson · « **Reply #105 on:** May 13, 2012, 12:52:00 PM »

Quote from: Coolie High on May 13, 2012, 05:37:46 AM

Uruguay also may be better equipped but individually they don't have better players than England.

Quote from: something awful on May 13, 2012, 05:52:49 AM

Yes they do.

Quote from: Coolie High on May 13, 2012, 06:30:58 AM

No they don't

Ooh, checkmate.

81a · « **Reply #106 on:** May 13, 2012, 07:44:39 PM »

Selfish self centred prick rests Foster for England today and his replacement was at fault for all Arsenals goals.

Wouldn't be happy if I was a Spurs fan.

Trada · « **Reply #107 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:02:49 PM »

TheFA.com ‏ @thefadotcom

England Manager Roy Hodgson has appointed Gary Neville as a Coach to his staff

Met · « **Reply #108 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:04:20 PM »

Outer Mongolian Red · « **Reply #109 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:04:38 PM »

Good move from Hodgson that.

JustDan · « **Reply #110 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:06:09 PM »

Quote from: Trada on May 14, 2012, 02:02:49 PM

TheFA.com ‏ @thefadotcom

England Manager Roy Hodgson has appointed Gary Neville as a Coach to his staff

Lol, the England set-up is slowly filling with some of Rawk's most hated

Hazell · « **Reply #111 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:31:56 PM »

Maybe he'll be good, maybe not. Brave move though, given his lack of experience. Phil Neville is involved with the England U21's as well. Looks like the Neville clan are taking over.

Devon Red · « **Reply #112 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:46:11 PM »

Quote from: Trada on May 14, 2012, 02:02:49 PM

TheFA.com ‏ @thefadotcom

England Manager Roy Hodgson has appointed Gary Neville as a Coach to his staff

The man who said that playing for England had been "a massive waste of time". Well done Roy

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #113 on:** May 14, 2012, 02:58:18 PM »

If anyone needs any more reason than hating the FA, disliking Hodgson and thinking most English players are knobheads to want England to fail then Gary Neville has just joined their staff to round off a bad pile of dunkem doo doos.

Toma · « **Reply #114 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:20:48 PM »

The owl has caught a rat

mb1111 · « **Reply #115 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:21:57 PM »

Quote from: Outer Mongolian Red on May 14, 2012, 02:04:38 PM

Good move from Hodgson that.

Why? Is he a good coach?

stevied · « **Reply #116 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:25:50 PM »

i assume Neville will be the immediate link between the players and coaching staff, to be honest i have enjoyed Neville on Sky this season he has been honest and not scared to speak about Utd in a derisory way if he feels the need to, i would rather listen to him than a lot of others employed by Sky, i think its a good move by the manager, next stop naming the team

Crosby Nick · « **Reply #117 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:28:15 PM »

Quote from: JustDan on May 14, 2012, 02:06:09 PM

Lol, the England set-up is slowly filling with some of Rawk's most hated

BREAKING NEWS - Maggie Thatcher appointed as England goalkeeping coach.

mikey_LFC · « **Reply #118 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:44:20 PM »

Quote from: Crosby Nick on May 14, 2012, 03:28:15 PM

BREAKING NEWS - Maggie Thatcher appointed as England goalkeeping coach.

Fernando Torres and Michael Owen as England's Attacking coaches

Nessy76 · « **Reply #119 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:45:53 PM »

Quote from: Carlos Qiqabal on May 9, 2012, 07:51:10 PM

People have scoffed at Roy saying he is at his level managing underachieving teams with average players. Doesn't that sound a lot like England?

Yes, but he only ever guides those teams to mediocrity, he might make them perform better than you'd expect, but they never look like world beaters.

I think the biggest problems Roy will face will be very similar to the ones he had at Liverpool. Most of the players at his disposal are used to playing with dynamic, tactically astute managers. Or Alex Ferguson. Roy's single-minded tactical simplicity is not what they are used to.

One of the big issues I had with him at Liverpool was the way he wanted the back line to play. Keep it straight and hoof it up long when you get possession. It made no use of some of the best assets of the players in those positions. Glen Johnson playing as an old-fashioned full back being asked to stick to a flat line with the centre backs is a bizarre and wasteful misuse of resources. Daniel Agger being told to hoof it up rather than play the ball out of defence, it's like using an F1 ferarri to pop down the shops.

Looking at the defenders available for England, the likely starters at full back are all closer to the Johnson role than the flat line Hodgson prefers. Ashley Cole will not thrive if he cannot cross the halfway line, any more than Glen could last season. Walker, Richards, even Baines, none of them are used to playing like that. Whatever he decides to do with the Terry/Ferdinand situation, it's hard to see him going for two non-ball playing defenders in the middle.

England's big problem often seems to be the egos of the players, people who do it week-in, week-out for their clubs seem ineffective for England, there's no obvious leaders because everyone thinks it should be them. I don't see Roy having the authority to change that culture, he wont command the respect that Copello or even Sven counted on. (This looks like the reason he's brought in Gary Neville, although he seems to have forgotten what a gobby and divisive presence rat boy brought to the squad in the past...)