Topic: FA Cup Final Round Table. Chelsea 2 - 1 Liverpool

[harleydanger]

This was quite baffling. People here says Gerrard had to drop deep because Henderson and Spearing wasn't doing their jobs but to me that explanation raises more questions than answers. Why nobody reacted to that!? Why we didn't change formation is a mystery to me. Or why nobody told Gerrard to trust other players and not drop deep. It's like banging our heads against the wall and stop just because our heads starts to hurt not because it makes no sense.

Before the game, i looked at their midfield, then looked at ours, and on paper it looked like the only way we'd match it was 4-5-1. I think we started with 4-5-1 and spearing just got pulled out of position far too much, which on a massive pitch like that is suicide. It's like playing 4-4-1. I also think Chelsea saw what was happening and exploited Jay even more.

I think we did react, by switching to 4-1-4-1 about halfway through the first. It wasn't a complete tactical brainfart from Clarke and Kenny, I could see why they went that way, and weren't left with many options if Jay didn't perform.

Rock and a hard place, with not many in the squad able to do Spearing's job at Spearing's level, when Spearing's level wasn't good enough on a pitch that size.

I also think they were banking on Suarez getting more space on that pitch  in a 4-5-1 than he did, Chelsea did a very good job of isolating him from support by pushing on, or dropping Lampard into space he could exploit.

I think it´s totally unfair to critise Spearing in all this. Everybody knows about his qualities, everybody knows that games like this are too big for him playing in center midfield behind Gerrard. It was the same story at ManU away this season but we are pretty good in repeating mistakes this season.

I actually think it's the size of the pitch that affects Jay's performance. On a big pitch like United or Wembley he is too easily pulled out of position chasing a shadow. On a smaller pitch like ours he gets away with it.

[ChrisV]

But isn't this the whole problem with the Carroll situation? If you believe that he will never be the man to build the team around then this is presumably, as has been said, because such a team doesn't fit the style of football that we want to play and ultimately the style of football we believe we need to play to be successful at the top level. Therefore, isn't it irrelevant whether he 'comes good' or not? Are we not saying that ultimately he can only ever be one type of player and even if he was excellent at being this type of player it still won't be enough for us. Doesn't it logically follow then that if this is the case we need to be cold and calculated about it and move him on as soon as possible?

I was suggesting in my post that maybe he has the potential to offer us more than this (being capable of playing in a flowing footballing side) and that that might be a reason for keeping him. I'm just not sure if he there is enough potential there or not. As I said I don't have the answers at all, but I hope someone at the club does.

While we all hope that eventually we start playing like Barcelona every game and dominating teams with our swashbuckling midfield, we are not there yet and sometimes we need a more direct option, with someone up front capable of hold-up play. This game was a case in point. I think we should keep Carroll not as a main option but as a plan B. I'd be OK with offloading him if I thought we'd get fair value, but he's been so woeful here that I don't think anyone would be prepared to pay us much, and his wages are not a big deal, so keeping him as a potentially game-changing sub is a viable option.

[Degs]

Before the game, i looked at their midfield, then looked at ours, and on paper it looked like the only way we'd match it was 4-5-1. I think we started with 4-5-1 and spearing just got pulled out of position far too much, which on a massive pitch like that is suicide. It's like playing 4-4-1. I also think Chelsea saw what was happening and exploited Jay even more.

I think we did react, by switching to 4-1-4-1 about halfway through the first. It wasn't a complete tactical brainfart from Clarke and Kenny, I could see why they went that way, and weren't left with many options if Jay didn't perform.

Rock and a hard place, with not many in the squad able to do Spearing's job at Spearing's level, when Spearing's level wasn't good enough on a pitch that size.

I also think they were banking on Suarez getting more space on that pitch  in a 4-5-1 than he did, Chelsea did a very good job of isolating him from support by pushing on, or dropping Lampard into space he could exploit.

I actually think it's the size of the pitch that affects Jay's performance. On a big pitch like United or Wembley he is too easily pulled out of position chasing a shadow. On a smaller pitch like ours he gets away with it.

I always found pitch dimensions to be a bit of a red herring.
The pitch at Wembley is the same width as Anfield (75 yards) and only 5 yards longer (115 compared to 110)

[John C]

Despite our problems and everything, together with the fact that all week I never thought we'd win, if Andy had buried that header we would have done it you know. We would have won.

I haven't seen an interview of Kenny yet, is there one anywhere?

[Rohit]

I also think they were banking on Suarez getting more space on that pitch  in a 4-5-1 than he did, Chelsea did a very good job of isolating him from support by pushing on, or dropping Lampard into space he could exploit.

Isolating suarez wasn't a problem as such had we played the way his national team did in the copa america. In that tournament he spent most games isolated the only difference is we were too slow in possession to exploit any space he would find as would transition quick enough. If we were going to play him upfront we should have been hitting quick balls into the channels for him to get on to.

[DanA]

For me we had a few advantages and I don't think we took advantage of any of them in the first half.

Their weaknesses:
1. Fatige
2. Bosingwa 

I was extremely frustrated with the setup and our complete lack of tempo. It was criminal. Chelsea have been playing big matches every 3 days for a month, they must be dead on their feet right now.  What's our response? Playing at a crawl. Our no.1 goal should have been to make them bust their us in the first half and what better way to do than then have Carroll up front? I hate long ball football as much as the next guy but every punt up the feild gets their players scrabling to get in position, every time sapping them of energ. That game should have been played at break neck speed.

And can someone explain to me why we played Downing & Enrique on the left? They were and have been all season totally disjointed. Rarely if ever have they combined well since joining the club. It should have been Bellamy or Suarez running at Bosingwa. They are our goal threats and they have the ability to exploit Bosingwa.

Given injuries and our lack of purchases in January. It was an unavoidable weakness that lead to the goals conceeded. Time and again it's been said Spearing isn't a DM and this game was more evidence of that opinion. His two mistakes were exactly the reason why. He too eagerly commit himself to the contested against Lampard and, tried to force the play which lead to Ramirez's goal. Yes there were other errors which contributed but for me Jay Spearing was the ticking time bomb described in an earlier post. I'm not attacking Jay the player, I actually quite like him partnered with a DM. His energy catches players off guard and creates opportunities, his willingness to get us moving forward opens up the opposition and generally he's effective with his ball use. He works well when he's got someone to watch his back. As a DM though he's a disaster waiting to happen and so it proved in this game.

Henderson too isn't ready. I think most would have been worried about Henderson hiding on the pitch before the game and it happened as expected.  He's not ready to be playing in an FA cup final against Chelsea, he needs to get stronger, more confident and improve his defensive play. I think he'll get their in time we just need to be patient. In the mean time i'm of the opinion he shouldn't  have such a prominant role in big games.

I'm really happy with the impact Andy and his progress in the back half of this season has been encouraging.  I also happy with how we delt with Drogba (goal aside) and the defence in generall all season. All this bodes well for next season and if we can add a bit more speed and goal threat up forward and shore up midfield I'll be fairly bullish about next seasons prospects.

[bravarado7]

We were:

1. Slow and lethargic.

2. Lacked intelligence in midfield.

3. Tactically outdone.

4. Late to react.

5. Brilliantly supported by our fans. the YNWA at the closing stages is one of my greatest memories .

Chelsea were :

1. Tired.

2. Never pressed by us.

3. Sitting back and happy to let us have the ball after 2-0.

4. Brilliantly organised. Very admirable.

5. By passing our midfield.

6. Always in 2nd gear.

[n00bert]

Thought we deserved to lose, if for nothing more than our approach to the game.

I didn't mind that we started 4-5-1, although I would have preferred a 4-4-2.

I think it was a good idea but we need to do two things in that formation that we didn't do, press higher up the field, and squeeze the midfield. What we allowed instead was for them to very casually walk into our half and ping it about. This led to them controlling the first half and even though their goal didn't result from it, I think it made us desperate in possession when we had anything meaningful in their half.  Also, why the fuck can't we tackle? There was a lot of token running around from the midfielders in that first half but I hardly saw anyone put in a tackle (something I have noticed more and more with Liverpool over the years).

Secondly, going forward Luis was too isolated and because we had so little of the ball, he was always trying those cute one-touch passes that more often than not didn't come off. This surrendered possesion and the vicious cycle started again. In theory, 4-5-1 should have meant that when Luis had the ball, he should automatically have 5 players in or around him. Instead, the gap between midfield and front man was too great and we spent a lot of time hitting it long and losing possession. If we were going with one up front, I'd say play Carroll instead. He has the physicality required for the job and is more suited to that position.

Also, I would have played Jonjo instead of Henderson. I'm just not sold on him at the moment - mostly because I don't know what position he is most likely to end up playing. He lacks the tackling nous of a DM, doesn't have the pace for a winger, doesn't have the creativity to play that far forward, doesn't seem to do much other than move the ball sideways and his decision making is quite woeful at times. I am sure he will improve and I do believe he could blossom into decent-to-good player, but I just don't know where he fits.

Jonjo on the other hand makes some incisive passes and uses the ball quite intelligently. I can only imagine KD was resting him because he played against Norwich and WBA but I still think he is definitely the more prodigious of the two young midfielders. I can see big things from him if he continues to progress at his current speed. 

Jay - as much as I love him - is proving to be a bit of a liability. I do think he can prove to be an essential part of our squad but I don't think he could ever replace a solid DM like Lucas. He could be useful in games when we are defending a slim lead and need a bit of a motor running about making tackles and closing people down. Might be useful against the smaller (with all due respect to them) and just be rotated in for those games. He is just not consistent first eleven quality.

I also don't understand why Enrique and Downing can't gel on the left. The way they slow down the game out there is frustrating. It just feels like every time the ball goes out to the left we lose it no matter how good the build up play.  This constant cutting in, then looking up, then playing it back just shits me. Get to the byline and whip it in. Why does Enrique constantly want to cross from what is, effectively, a standing position. It just gives defenders that split second to readjust.  Both Enrique and Downing at their most effective have played crosses virtually blind - or it just may be confirmation bias.

Would also have started Bellamy on the left instead of the right. He and Enrique have done slightly better than the Downing-Enrique partnership. Downing has also been better down the right than he has been on the left.

In my opinion, what we should have done is to close down the midfield quickly and capitalise on the fatigue factor. Chelsea have played a lot of important games over the last few weeks while we have been pretty much been on dead rubbers for a while. Yes, of course we have been playing for pride and all that but we haven't had anything to really play for since the CC final. This may or may not have had the reverse effect of blunting us mentally. On the first half alone we should have lost. No determination to get the ball back and allowing Chelsea free reign is fucking criminal. We looked in awe and afraid of them, which is bollocks because we have had it over them for awhile now.

Now, my preference for 4-4-2 rests on the simple fact that the big fella has had a good couple of months. He was one of the good things about that loss midweek. Those goals against Blackburn and the Blueshite have done him a world of good. His ball control and link up play has improved as has his positional play in the box. Add to that, he seems to have become more determined. I think there is much hope for him yet, but then I've always thought that Andy Carroll was a good buy for us and he has the sort of physical presence we've been lacking.

Also, that second one was a definite goal for me. Fucking ref. People have been bagging Carroll for running off but I was celebrating too until I realised they didn't allow it. That goal would have changed the game. Chelsea were on the back foot, we were growing in confidence. Say what you want about the first 60 minutes but when we clicked into gear I felt that we definitely bossed it. Why we couldn't have just done that from the start is what is most disappointing.

Whether or not these were executive tactical decisions (ie the lack of back-four pressure)  or whether the players didn't execute the tactics the way they were meant to we will never really know. I think we should defintely have made much more of it in the first half with the players we had on the pitch. The mentality going into the game was disappointing. We were flat in a game that could have defined our season and the players just didn't really seem up for it. 

The season is a write-off but I will say that moving forward, there is hope. It's not all doom and gloom and let's be honest, we were very good at times this season even if the results don't show it. We just need a bit more luck and to harden up a little bit and I think we can very quickly go from where we are to the top 4. Of course we need to strengthen in the off season.

With Lucas to return and hopefully that the Charlie Adam coming from injury will be a new, better Charlie Adam. I do feel that we are sorted in the central of midfield with Lucas, Stevie, Adam, Hendo, Shelvey and Speo so it is not critical for us to invest in that department. Where we need a bit more personel is up front - Kuyt and Maxi look like they are out the door for sure. Bellamy can't get a decent run of games due to the persistence of the injury, so he's not going to be playing every game. I don't think Hendo is built for pace. I'd like to see more round pegs for round holes, a proper winger who is built for that position rather than players being shoehorned in.  I'd like some quicker wingers and generally more direct players.  We need players that can make some difference in the final third either with delivery or with actual goals - so maybe a couple of decent wingers and a striker. Finally, I think we are OK at the back with Coates, Kelly, Robinson and Flano too, but it may be wise to maybe get some young cover at left-back.

Just my thoughts!

[subroc]

While we all hope that eventually we start playing like Barcelona every game and dominating teams with our swashbuckling midfield, we are not there yet and sometimes we need a more direct option, with someone up front capable of hold-up play. This game was a case in point. I think we should keep Carroll not as a main option but as a plan B. I'd be OK with offloading him if I thought we'd get fair value, but he's been so woeful here that I don't think anyone would be prepared to pay us much, and his wages are not a big deal, so keeping him as a potentially game-changing sub is a viable option.

The problem is that we are never going to be there like Barcelona unless we first of all establish pass and move as being the default mode and the basic way we play. That goes to training but also to the type of players we sign. Carroll should only be signed as a fallback and Plan B AFTER we stock the first team with pass and move players FIRST. Dalglish's mistake however was being seduced with Carroll's breakout season in the EPL to blow his budget on him and on signing players unsuited to pass and move like Downing and Adam AND getting rid of Aquilani and Meireles - both pass and move players by preference - instead of focusing on signing players who are brought up in such a system of play from young.

[Mohammad Shahrul]

We lost in midfield. Thats my opening paragraph... We even lost the midfield
 when we were massing Gerrard, Henderson and Spearing there... Three players
 for God sake but we can see Lampard, Mikel and Ramires were bulldozing and slice
 through it... And what I cant stand it more, Lampard is 33 years old and
 managed to architect our midfield penetration!! Owh damn it old man!! I really
 really appreciate Downing for his involvement in Carroll's goal but fuck,
 obviously Enrique our defender was trying to attack the left flank more than
 him during the 60 minutes compared to our own winger. Hell dude!! Seems that
 everybody knows the fact that Suarez is much much more efficient if he is
 working with a second striker or a winger but in the first half, he was too
 isolated, home alone like Kevin McCallister (Macaulay Culkin) while Gerrard
 was sitting too deep... Improve our tactical next season with a winning
 mentality players, there we go - Champion League!!! We are gonna take the cup
 next season... We will!!!

[John C]

We lost in midfield.

We did mate, I hate to admit it but Chelsea pressed us well throughout the game. I wasn't bothered about the really slow start like others have complained about, that caginess helped settle a few nerves and mine. But after that, until we brought Andy on, we couldn't build much. They we're pretty much closing us down really well.

[bravarado7]

We did mate, I hate to admit it but Chelsea pressed us well throughout the game. I wasn't bothered about the really slow start like others have complained about, that caginess helped settle a few nerves and mine. But after that, until we brought Andy on, we couldn't build much. They we're pretty much closing us down really well.

Dont you think if we started quickly off the blocks , like we did a lot this season, Chelsea's nervousness could have played into our hands ? For me, its very important you make early inroads in big games which will eventually help you take control of situation.

[Mohammad Shahrul]

Dont you think if we started quickly off the blocks , like we did a lot this season, Chelsea's nervousness could have
played into our hands ? For me, its very important you make early inroads in big games which will eventually help you take control of situation.

It think it might be Henderson and Spearing confidence problem... Young, strong, fast but no confidence...
You can see the old slow weak horses like Giggs and Scholes still play comfortably against inferior opponent
compared than us. Its really killing us. I bet if even Henderson is running, he could beat Giggs easily
in 100m Olympic challenge. Agree? Fine, it is just my cheap opinion...

[Mohammad Shahrul]

We did mate, I hate to admit it but Chelsea pressed us well throughout the game.

Yea. They did well. Attack with numbers and defend with 5-6 men in the box.
Even Suarez was struggling in this kind of tactical "outnumbered in unit" style of play.
Sigh... Nevermind, next season as usual.

[steveeastend]

Before the game, i looked at their midfield, then looked at ours, and on paper it looked like the only way we'd match it was 4-5-1. I think we started with 4-5-1 and spearing just got pulled out of position far too much, which on a massive pitch like that is suicide. It's like playing 4-4-1. I also think Chelsea saw what was happening and exploited Jay even more.

I think we did react, by switching to 4-1-4-1 about halfway through the first. It wasn't a complete tactical brainfart from Clarke and Kenny, I could see why they went that way, and weren't left with many options if Jay didn't perform.

Rock and a hard place, with not many in the squad able to do Spearing's job at Spearing's level, when Spearing's level wasn't good enough on a pitch that size.

I also think they were banking on Suarez getting more space on that pitch  in a 4-5-1 than he did, Chelsea did a very good job of isolating him from support by pushing on, or dropping Lampard into space he could exploit.

I actually think it's the size of the pitch that affects Jay's performance. On a big pitch like United or Wembley he is too easily pulled out of position chasing a shadow. On a smaller pitch like ours he gets away with it.

Mate, I was aiming at the lack of a game plan/tactics in order to be able to control center midfield. There is no way that a combination of Spearing and Gerrard might work in order to control a game. The point is that we knew that before. Adam and Spearing did work as Adam did concentrate on his defending in his last couple of games exclusively which was a good thing and made us look like a football team. But the point is that he just did that, nothing else, like De Young at City f.e. Gerrard tried to do it all (again) yesterday and for that, as Roy Keane mentioned it, we looked like a 5 a side team.

It doesn´t matter how big the pitch may be, without the right people playing in the right positions and some proper tactics you will get overrun in football. Remember Skrtel at Tottenham at the beginning of the season...

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Some belter posts in here.

The problem of opposition exploiting Spearing was always bound to happen. Protecting the back four (or in general terms, defending!) is a question of cohesive movement of players and, in case of a break or transition into attack, movement of ball around the midfield intelligently. Spearings weakness had to be covered up by Gerrard who had to drop deep.

I think we should have started with Gerrard, Henderson and Maxi in the midfield. With Downing, Suarez wide and Carroll upfront.

[steveeastend]

Yea. They did well. Attack with numbers and defend with 5-6 men in the box.
Even Suarez was struggling in this kind of tactical "outnumbered in unit" style of play.

Typical italian, Di Matteo is not different here. Iit´s not the hidden treasure though, there are a lot of ways to do a better job against a team playing like this as we did.

[kopenddanny]

Anyone else still morbidly depressed? I still feel like a family member has just died for god sake lol.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Anyone else still morbidly depressed? I still feel like a family member has just died for god sake lol.

And yet you LOL.

[BCCC]

Steven Gerrard's Superman cape doesn't fit him anymore. He won't be pulling us out of mediocrity any time soon.

[ldsn]

Anyone else still morbidly depressed? I still feel like a family member has just died for god sake lol.

Felt really depressed when I went to sleep last night because that's when I really get the time to lie and ponder it. Been trying to occupy myself with other things to try and get over it.

[BCCC]

Nothing will compare to how shite I felt when we lost the '77 cup final. Luckily we'd already won the league and went on to win the European Cup a few days later to soften the blow.

It still hurts more than this one though.

[bravarado7]

Steven Gerrard's Superman cape doesn't fit him anymore. He won't be pulling us out of mediocrity any time soon.

He still can . Get him nearer to oppostions goal and he will hurt them . But, for that he needs quality CM whom he can trust and leave the responsibilities and play the whole of 90 minutes in the final 3rd. As a CM though , he is being carried by the team.

[lucas65]

Anyone else still morbidly depressed? I still feel like a family member has just died for god sake lol.

I'd have felt worse if we had been robbed but we were beat by the better team.
The way we finished the game made me feel better but made me realise we got it wrong. It happens.
The goals issue has been blatantly obvious so its not rocket science what we have to put right.
I have just come out of spine surgery walking so , although sad, it's not the end of the world.

[silver 5 star]

Didn't like the team from the off. Wanted Carroll in to assist Suarez and to put pressure on the likes of Terry who is prone to getting over physical with big centre forwards. Thought Bellamy should have been kept for the later stages.

Henderson again huffed and puffed and did little. Spearing in my view is nothing more than a squad player - shouldn't be starting a cup final against a top side.

Downing? In the first half especially all he did was pass the ball back - if he passed it forward he usually lost the ball.

Our major tactical switch in the first half was getting Bellamy and Downing to swap wings.  Schoolboy football stuff.

Overall really poor and timid stuff. Kuyt? Only 12 minutes? Really? Scored in the last final at Wembley.

Enrique? Once again played a part in losing a goal. Reina beaten on his near post.

When Chelsea went one up they simply sat back and let us have the ball because they knew we were doing fuck all with it.

[yorkykopite]

I bet you that the owners, for the first time, understood why anyone might pay a large slice of green for Andy Carroll. Not 35 mill  maybe, but enough to do some serious violence to the bank balance. You wouldn't even have to know too much about football to understand that Carroll's domination of his markers was nigh on complete on Saturday.

I didn't particularly want him to start. I was hoping for Shelvey and Henderson in central midfield and Steve Gerrard playing off Suarez. But Shelvey wrote himself out of the script with a performance against Fulham that was full of desire but, at times, laughably short of grey matter. And so, inevitably, a team without Carroll and without Shelvey was going to be one with Spearing at its heart. I'm sure Kenny took the decision to play him with a degree of foreboding. Who wouldn't? And it was a risk that didn't pay off. Indeed it proved calamitous.

Let's not revisit why he played badly. That would have been obvious to the watching Americans too. Suffice to say that Lampard probably wrote the lad's Liverpool epitaph when he skipped round him (from a standing start!) for the second goal. The days are long gone (if they ever really existed) when 'die for the shirt' and 'run through a brick wall' are sufficient qualities to command a place in a team with title aspirations. You've got to have skill and intelligence too.

Chelsea had that in the first half. Mata, obviously, was beautifully neat in possession and economical in his movements. He knows where to run when his teammates have the ball. Kalou too looked threatening as did Ramires (though no surprise there). Oddly enough it was Drogba who we tamed. Yes, he scored a goal, but both Skrtel and Agger were quick into him and at times - of joy! - too strong for him as well.

But the first half was poor from us, for reasons which have been amply covered. The opening goal was the type of goal that if your team gets...well, you know it's your day. No effort was required to score that - and certainly no ingenuity. The man who would run through a brick wall for Liverpool failed to control a regulation pass, Enrique sold himself when a bit of shepherding was required and Pepe did a 'Bob Wilson' and left his near post open at Wembley.

Meanwhile at the other end we couldn't feed our most dangerous player because Gerrard dropped back to plug the gaps left by the incompetent Spearing and the nervous Henderson. It was the wrong choice, but it was a necessary one. And of course Stevie was our Man of the Match. When the rest of the team was scared on the ball, he took responsibility. He was the only one of our players to turn on the thing and face the right way. He was the only one to go for the gaps, which he did with a lot of intelligence. If Chelsea were ever on the back foot in the first 60 minutes it was because Steve put them there. He hardly put a foot wrong through the entire game.

So then Carroll got his chance.

I've seen big forwards do this before. At all levels of the game these ponderous looking giants can suddenly, without warning, turn into rampaging behemoths. I don't know why this happens. I suspect Andy Carroll doesn't either. Anyway, number 9 had an almost instant effect. The team pushed up and - let's be frank here - we absolutely dominated possession and territory for 25 minutes. I can't recall such a sustained period of real pressure against a Chelsea side since Ranieri left (I want to say, maybe, the game where Owen terrorised Desailly at Anfield). It was an unusual feeling. We were outclassing Chelsea and they couldn't get the ball beyond the half-way line. They suddenly looked what they are - an ageing, slightly stupid team (Good luck Bayern. It ought to be piss easy for you). 

Fats called the last 25' 'the charge of the light brigade'. It's a nice phrase, but it probably summons the wrong image. I actually thought we were more subtle than that. It wasn't Agger and Skrtel lumping long passes up to Carroll, like it can be when we come to rely on his head. It was the flanks pushing back their full backs and sending in crosses from very dangerous positions. Two of the players to suffer horrible first-halves were obviously Downing and Enrique. I'm surprised by the mysterious reluctance in this thread to praise their effort in the second half. Downing in particular came strong. It was his aggression and the excellence of his timing that provided the assist for Carroll's goal. And whenever we recycled the ball on the half way line it was to the left wing that we looked. Johnson was equally heroic on the right but sadly, lacked a player in front of him with the drive that Downing had on the day. Bellamy was curiously subdued and Dirk, when he came on, was...well.... Dirk.

The other player to come good in this period was Henderson who seemed, at last, to take a leaf out of his captain's book and turn into the danger areas with the ball. He's young and still a bit raw. I have hopes for this player. 

Did the ball cross the line? Who cares now. I thought so at the time and couldn't believe why the ref didn't at least quiz his linesman. But it shouldn't have mattered. Carroll spurned a decent chance later, when he scuffed a left foot shot, and at one point the ball fell invitingly to Skrtel who was the wrong man to capitalise.

It's horrible losing a Cup. It was just about tolerable because of the magnificence of the last 25 minutes. Our fans were great. Wembley stadium is rubbish. The FA are clowns. John Terry is a right-wing nationalist. Big changes need to happen in time for next season.

[BCCC]

He still can . Get him nearer to oppostions goal and he will hurt them . But, for that he needs quality CM whom he can trust and leave the responsibilities and play the whole of 90 minutes in the final 3rd. As a CM though , he is being carried by the team.

There's two points; firstly he has had his watershed and secondly we shouldn't need to rely on one player to work miracles.

[buzzing]

Steven Gerrard's Superman cape doesn't fit him anymore. He won't be pulling us out of mediocrity any time soon.

It does but we're giving it to him to use as tights - he needs to push on where he can do his best. Shite start meant spearing came off and he went deep.

[red saint]

Solution is so obvious stop John Henry coming to the games and we will win everything. He's a jinx

[Fat Scouser]

I know one thing, City are going to bag that difficult first title next week, then they'll go out and spend a ton of money. United will strengthen as will Chelsea. Tottenham will spend a few bob an all. And Arsen might even crack he's purse open. I have no idea what the yanks have in mind, but I'm not too hopeful. I mean are they going to throw money at 2 new wingers when we've just sponked the Downing money? Are they going to stump up for a decent central midfielder when we've got a shed full of them and they've been lead to beleive Gerrard is Superman?
I don't even want to really think about all our problems, but Kenny's got some hard thinking and graft ahead of him.
I mean, if we carry on getting results like we have since Crimbo, next season. We'll be in proper dire straits. I'm not even suggesting relegation battles. I know we've got better players than that. But they better start performing even just to keep us in the top 6 to 8. I don't want to seem all doom and gloom, but this view that we are just one or two players short doesn't cut it. We're way off. We've got a ton of players on the books that are too old, not good enough, or both. We've got a few really good individuals with shite for back up. Look at the havoc Lucas's injury caused to us. Well, who's to say, he's going to be back at his best next season. Then there's Gerrard. I'll bet me bottom lip, we'll get even less from him next season. What if Suarez gets a bad one. I honestly don't mean to put anyone on downer, but it's got to be faced up to.
Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy, Adam, Spearing, Downing, Aurelio, that's not even mentioning the likes of Cole and Aquilani's wages, and I could go on, but I'll end up feeling suicidal and I'm sure you get me drift.

Where's John Mac when you need him. Best get some young fellas in here sharpish, roaring get a grip, blert.

[youll never walk alone it]

was thinking the same earlier not for the 1st time of course fs, not wanting to depress everyone  but our medium term prospects arnt good, unless we have a miracle worker somewhere like shanks.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

I know one thing, City are going to bag that difficult first title next week, then they'll go out and spend a ton of money. United will strengthen as will Chelsea. Tottenham will spend a few bob an all. And Arsen might even crack he's purse open. I have no idea what the yanks have in mind, but I'm not too hopeful. I mean are they going to throw money at 2 new wingers when we've just sponked the Downing money? Are they going to stump up for a decent central midfielder when we've got a shed full of them and they've been lead to beleive Gerrard is Superman?
I don't even want to really think about all our problems, but Kenny's got some hard thinking and graft ahead of him.
I mean, if we carry on getting results like we have since Crimbo, next season. We'll be in proper dire straits. I'm not even suggesting relegation battles. I know we've got better players than that. But they better start performing even just to keep us in the top 6 to 8. I don't want to seem all doom and gloom, but this view that we are just one or two players short doesn't cut it. We're way off. We've got a ton of players on the books that are too old, not good enough, or both. We've got a few really good individuals with shite for back up. Look at the havoc Lucas's injury caused to us. Well, who's to say, he's going to be back at his best next season. Then there's Gerrard. I'll bet me bottom lip, we'll get even less from him next season. What if Suarez gets a bad one. I honestly don't mean to put anyone on downer, but it's got to be faced up to.
Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy, Adam, Spearing, Downing, Aurelio, that's not even mentioning the likes of Cole and Aquilani's wages, and I could go on, but I'll end up feeling suicidal and I'm sure you get me drift.

Where's John Mac when you need him. Best get some young fellas in here sharpish, roaring get a grip, blert.

Get a grip for fuck sake

We need another defensive midfielder (as cover for Lucas) and wingers (nothing new there) and shot of Downing and Adam. There'll be some berk who'll want to buy them and Cole because they're British, as for Aquilani he'll either be here next season or off the books so his wages wont be an issue either way.

As for Kuyt, Maxi, Spearing, Aurelio, I'd say we'd be lucky to get £15 million for the lot of them, but it'll allow us a little more money to spend towards one decent player.

Those worthy of the 1st team next year in my eyes, where do we need to strengthen not in terms of squad depth but first team quality? CM and the wings are the glaringly obvious areas

Reina
Johnson
Enrique
Agger
Skrtel
Lucas
Gerrard
Suarez
Carroll

[Timbo's Goals]

I bet you that the owners, for the first time, understood why anyone might pay a large slice of green for Andy Carroll. Not 35 mill  maybe, but enough to do some serious violence to the bank balance. You wouldn't even have to know too much about football to understand that Carroll's domination of his markers was nigh on complete on Saturday.

I didn't particularly want him to start. I was hoping for Shelvey and Henderson in central midfield and Steve Gerrard playing off Suarez. But Shelvey wrote himself out of the script with a performance against Fulham that was full of desire but, at times, laughably short of grey matter. And so, inevitably, a team without Carroll and without Shelvey was going to be one with Spearing at its heart. I'm sure Kenny took the decision to play him with a degree of foreboding. Who wouldn't? And it was a risk that didn't pay off. Indeed it proved calamitous.

Let's not revisit why he played badly. That would have been obvious to the watching Americans too. Suffice to say that Lampard probably wrote the lad's Liverpool epitaph when he skipped round him (from a standing start!) for the second goal. The days are long gone (if they ever really existed) when 'die for the shirt' and 'run through a brick wall' are sufficient qualities to command a place in a team with title aspirations. You've got to have skill and intelligence too.

Chelsea had that in the first half. Mata, obviously, was beautifully neat in possession and economical in his movements. He knows where to run when his teammates have the ball. Kalou too looked threatening as did Ramires (though no surprise there). Oddly enough it was Drogba who we tamed. Yes, he scored a goal, but both Skrtel and Agger were quick into him and at times - of joy! - too strong for him as well.

But the first half was poor from us, for reasons which have been amply covered. The opening goal was the type of goal that if your team gets...well, you know it's your day. No effort was required to score that - and certainly no ingenuity. The man who would run through a brick wall for Liverpool failed to control a regulation pass, Enrique sold himself when a bit of shepherding was required and Pepe did a 'Bob Wilson' and left his near post open at Wembley.

Meanwhile at the other end we couldn't feed our most dangerous player because Gerrard dropped back to plug the gaps left by the incompetent Spearing and the nervous Henderson. It was the wrong choice, but it was a necessary one. And of course Stevie was our Man of the Match. When the rest of the team was scared on the ball, he took responsibility. He was the only one of our players to turn on the thing and face the right way. He was the only one to go for the gaps, which he did with a lot of intelligence. If Chelsea were ever on the back foot in the first 60 minutes it was because Steve put them there. He hardly put a foot wrong through the entire game.

So then Carroll got his chance.

I've seen big forwards do this before. At all levels of the game these ponderous looking giants can suddenly, without warning, turn into rampaging behemoths. I don't know why this happens. I suspect Andy Carroll doesn't either. Anyway, number 9 had an almost instant effect. The team pushed up and - let's be frank here - we absolutely dominated possession and territory for 25 minutes. I can't recall such a sustained period of real pressure against a Chelsea side since Ranieri left (I want to say, maybe, the game where Owen terrorised Desailly at Anfield). It was an unusual feeling. We were outclassing Chelsea and they couldn't get the ball beyond the half-way line. They suddenly looked what they are - an ageing, slightly stupid team (Good luck Bayern. It ought to be piss easy for you). 

Fats called the last 25' 'the charge of the light brigade'. It's a nice phrase, but it probably summons the wrong image. I actually thought we were more subtle than that. It wasn't Agger and Skrtel lumping long passes up to Carroll, like it can be when we come to rely on his head. It was the flanks pushing back their full backs and sending in crosses from very dangerous positions. Two of the players to suffer horrible first-halves were obviously Downing and Enrique. I'm surprised by the mysterious reluctance in this thread to praise their effort in the second half. Downing in particular came strong. It was his aggression and the excellence of his timing that provided the assist for Carroll's goal. And whenever we recycled the ball on the half way line it was to the left wing that we looked. Johnson was equally heroic on the right but sadly, lacked a player in front of him with the drive that Downing had on the day. Bellamy was curiously subdued and Dirk, when he came on, was...well.... Dirk.

The other player to come good in this period was Henderson who seemed, at last, to take a leaf out of his captain's book and turn into the danger areas with the ball. He's young and still a bit raw. I have hopes for this player. 

Did the ball cross the line? Who cares now. I thought so at the time and couldn't believe why the ref didn't at least quiz his linesman. But it shouldn't have mattered. Carroll spurned a decent chance later, when he scuffed a left foot shot, and at one point the ball fell invitingly to Skrtel who was the wrong man to capitalise.

It's horrible losing a Cup. It was just about tolerable because of the magnificence of the last 25 minutes. Our fans were great. Wembley stadium is rubbish. The FA are clowns. John Terry is a right-wing nationalist. Big changes need to happen in time for next season.

Really good post Yorky. I obviously watched the same game. Your take on what transpired is how I saw it and the three players who performed like duffers for an hour certainly did transform their game in the last half hour. But for liverpudlians that Wembley final simply has to be all about Andy Carroll - whichever extreme you occupy - whether you're one of the faithful knobheads who've believed unerringly in his abilities despite the utter dross he's served up or one of the fickle knobheads who have never believed for one minute that there was a footballer lurking within the big useless twat or at some of the many stages in between.

I've been one of the in-betweeners but certainly towards the dis-believing end of the scale. So I simply couldn't believe Carroll's performance when he came on. He played at a level I 'd never imagined he had in him after watching him this past season or so. His goal was world class. No question. Nothing to do with his head, his size or all the usual big lumbering number nine baggage. Simply an exceptional piece of clear headed top class footballing finishing of which ANY forward would have been proud.

I posted somewhere else that I think his cameo performance may have dug us out of the shit we've been in ever since irresponsibly forking out £35 million for him. There'll now be managers drooling over that Carroll cameo. Perhaps not drooling enough or financially endowed enough to get our money back but we might get a large chunk of it or a decent player swap. And yet after seeing him perform as he did I'm unsure as to the tack we should take. Part of me feels it simply had to be a one-off freak performance so let's get shut while the going's good. Yet part of me thinks - what if that's a measure of what he really can offer us from here on in? - in which case we'd be lunatics to even consider getting rid. You build dynasties around that level of performance.

Fuckin insane. The more you think you know the less you actually do.

 

 

[colden]

........

Meanwhile at the other end we couldn't feed our most dangerous player because Gerrard dropped back to plug the gaps left by the incompetent Spearing and the nervous Henderson. It was the wrong choice, but it was a necessary one. And of course Stevie was our Man of the Match. When the rest of the team was scared on the ball, he took responsibility. He was the only one of our players to turn on the thing and face the right way. He was the only one to go for the gaps, which he did with a lot of intelligence. If Chelsea were ever on the back foot in the first 60 minutes it was because Steve put them there. He hardly put a foot wrong through the entire game.

.......

I agree that Gerrard felt the need to drop back to help in CM, but disagree about his game intelligence.

If we've got the ball in the back line, why does he need to drop back to pick it up - he must surely know that this leave a chasm between our midfield & Suarez, where he is supposed to be. You might argue that he didn't trust Spearing or Henderson to create from the back, in that case, he should get the message to Henderson to push on, into the AM role which Gerrard has vacated. If necessary get the message to Kenny that this is what he's doing.

The problem is, he should be able to read the game and identify the problems he is causing by dropping too deep. All that happens is a vicious circle - we struggle in DM, he goes back to help, there's no-one in AM to provide the link to Suarez, Chelsea win the ball back easily, we need to defend.

Much the same as Carra has organised the defence over the years, Gerrard should organise the midfield, and let those around him know what he's doing, and therefore where they should be.

Doesn't feel right to be having a go at Gerrard - he's been our best player over the last 10 years - but his is our captain, and has to take the responsibility on the pitch. Other players, especially the younger ones look to him for leadership. Chelsea found it too easy to slice through our midfield in the first hour, too often just walking past our players (Gerrard included), who stood by without attempting a tackle.

[alfonso]

What's this John Henry not shaking Kenny's hand at medal presentation malarkey?

[1021]

What's this John Henry not shaking Kenny's hand at medal presentation malarkey?

I was there and understandably haven't made any efforts to watch the trophy presentation for a second time.
I highly doubt he refused to shake his hand, that would have been levels beyond obnoxious.

[alfonso]

[DanA]

I know one thing, City are going to bag that difficult first title next week, then they'll go out and spend a ton of money. United will strengthen as will Chelsea. Tottenham will spend a few bob an all. And Arsen might even crack he's purse open. I have no idea what the yanks have in mind, but I'm not too hopeful. I mean are they going to throw money at 2 new wingers when we've just sponked the Downing money? Are they going to stump up for a decent central midfielder when we've got a shed full of them and they've been lead to beleive Gerrard is Superman?
I don't even want to really think about all our problems, but Kenny's got some hard thinking and graft ahead of him.
I mean, if we carry on getting results like we have since Crimbo, next season. We'll be in proper dire straits. I'm not even suggesting relegation battles. I know we've got better players than that. But they better start performing even just to keep us in the top 6 to 8. I don't want to seem all doom and gloom, but this view that we are just one or two players short doesn't cut it. We're way off. We've got a ton of players on the books that are too old, not good enough, or both. We've got a few really good individuals with shite for back up. Look at the havoc Lucas's injury caused to us. Well, who's to say, he's going to be back at his best next season. Then there's Gerrard. I'll bet me bottom lip, we'll get even less from him next season. What if Suarez gets a bad one. I honestly don't mean to put anyone on downer, but it's got to be faced up to.
Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy, Adam, Spearing, Downing, Aurelio, that's not even mentioning the likes of Cole and Aquilani's wages, and I could go on, but I'll end up feeling suicidal and I'm sure you get me drift.



Where's John Mac when you need him. Best get some young fellas in here sharpish, roaring get a grip, blert.

It's bad and I feel your pain but it is getting better. Investment is necessary but I think we'll see it in summer to a decent degree. More crucial is we spend it wisely. As a starting point I think guys that could lighten the burden on Lucas, Gerrard and Suarez would be good and I dare say we'll get all three.

The players crossed out i'm pretty sure we'll offload and that's a hefty sum off the wage bill. Then it's a matter of finding quality targets, something we haven't been able to do consistently in last 3-4 windows.

[Mr Kipling]

John looks well fucked off there

Big changes this summer

[The Grinch]

John looks well fucked off there

Big changes this summer

Bit different to this one