Topic: Is it that bad a season? A Rafa-free topic.

[penga]

Would be happy enough with the season if we win the FA Cup. As long as next season we focus EVERYTHING on the league.

But people can't go on about winning 1 or 2 out of 3 trophies because we all know how much more important the 1 that we aren't even close to competing for this season is over the other 2 cups.

[liverpooll]

We would know the answer by the end of today.

[RichardM]

The league indicates the real quality of a team though. Not just their ability to turn it on for big games.

Champions league these days is a necessity. The amount of revenue it brings to the club is huge and it allows us to attract the higher quality of players needed to stay at the top.

It's not a bad season overall but it's not a season we can have every time. We NEED to be competing at the top of the league or we'll fall away from greatness.

[TSC]

The league indicates the real quality of a team though. Not just their ability to turn it on for big games.

It's not a bad season overall but it's not a season we can have every time. We NEED to be competing at the top of the league or we'll fall away from greatness.

If you're using the league as a barometer then we 'fell away from greatness' 22 years ago

[youll never walk alone it]

with the odd exception yes, 1997, 2002 2009 obvious exceptions.

[Melbred]

If you're using the league as a barometer then we 'fell away from greatness' 22 years ago

We did.

[BSBW]

Regardless of the cups, it's a fuckin' great season; no Hodgson, no H&G. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I think a lot people forget how deep in the shit we actually were last year.

[TSC]

with the odd exception yes, 1997, 2002 2009 obvious exceptions.

Never won it though, winning is everything

[Anthony]

Probably better left until tomorrow but this thread will probably be locked by then so

My standards are the same every season -

Minimum 70 points, preferably at least 75.
Qualification for the Knockout Stages of the CL (especially given we'll be one of the top seeds)
If we have to go out of the Knockout Competitions then it should be going down to a top side fighting and not a minnow with a whimper.

I always judge a season by the number of points we make and by which team we go out to in the Cup Competitions (not going out being an unqualified bonus of course! ).

For the League I look for a minimum of 70 points but it's not a good season unless we are getting 75-85. I think we have the team to push into the high 80's - it's out of our hands then what other teams get.

59-60 points is not good enough for this club - it cost 1 manager his job and would have placed another under increasing pressure had it not been his first season in a new league spent pulling off a minor miracle in his speciality field.

Our minimum target needs to be closer to 70-75 points - realistically this will not be enough to win the league but should be enough to secure at least a Champions League Place (assuming the Mancs don't finish outside the top 4 and win - it would be ironic if we were the ones to suffer from the "clarification" of the rules! )

Now granted we have had a lot of water (and owners) pass under the bridge since then but this benchmark still holds true and, guess what, unless Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle win all their remaining matches, 70 points will be good enough for fourth!

The final point, though, comes from Kenny - having spent the last few months debating the merits of 4th vs a cup on RAWK we now see Kenny discussing the cup vs 5th/6th. This is like comparing a Ford Mondeo with a Ford Fiesta, obviously we want the Mondeo but we should be in the Mercedes!

[alan82]

Brilliant positive post mate

[Anthony]

Brilliant positive post mate

I know! I've been telling myself the same thing.

But you know what? I've spent the last 48 hours wondering why I'm not in the least bit excited about the fact Liverpool, the club I have loved and followed as long as I can remember, are appearing today in the FA Cup Final, THE FA CUP FINAL! THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS DOMESTIC CUP COMPETITION IN THE WORLD!!!

This probably explains why, along with the fact that the FA have conspired to undermine it at every opportunity (3pm the Saturday after the Season ends is when I'll probably start). Maybe I need to get some anger out of my system first.

PMA! PMA! PMA!...

[Suarez 7]

Delighted with the cups. League as been a shameful disgrace.

Would trade cups for a top 3 finish because it would benefit the club more in the long term, and help set the club on the road to league and european cup success

[geoffstrong]

And here are reasons I dont frequent the main board.

Night

And their the reason you should frequent the main board more often, we need better posters like you, brilliant and a touch of reality that some will not grasp at all, thank you.

[geoffstrong]

Delighted with the cups. League as been a shameful disgrace.

Would trade cups for a top 3 finish because it would benefit the club more in the long term, and help set the club on the road to league and european cup success

What is wrong with the modern day fan in one post. How many top four teams from the prem  have gone on to win the European Cup then in say the last decade? There is more to life than money!

When they give medals and trophies and include teams in the record books for almost winning something then you might have a point but they dont and you dont have a clue what this club is here for, the purpose is to win trophies not just one trophy.

 Enjoy the final if you can?

[red1977]

league form aside. weve got a cup in the bag, were in the fa cup final with kenny at the helm, if your not happy now then you never will be. ....these are good times!!!!

[the jesus]

Arsenal have been top four constantly but have not won a trophy for seven years.
What is the point in that.

[rob1408]

What is wrong with the modern day fan in one post. How many top four teams from the prem  have gone on to win the European Cup then in say the last decade? There is more to life than money!

When they give medals and trophies and include teams in the record books for almost winning something then you might have a point but they dont and you dont have a clue what this club is here for, the purpose is to win trophies not just one trophy.

 Enjoy the final if you can?

Superb post.  Like everyone, I'm not happy with our performance in the league, I'm upset we missed out on the Champions League but if we win today the only thing that would better it would be winning the league.

[red1977]

Hugely shortsighted. The fa cup doesn't mean you are progressing as a club or as a team.

what? winning the fa cup is not progress??............its a big fucking improvement on not winning it???

[MassDriver]

Hugely shortsighted. The fa cup doesn't mean you are progressing as a club or as a team.

How about fucking putting a lid to it , just for today , ya know?

[rob1408]

What the fuck? So winning the Cl is no longer better than the FA cup?

Bollocks of the highest order.

Any sportsman worth his salt wants to play the best. The Fa cup doesn't come close to that. Playing in the Cl means playing the best, that is the point of it.

Anyone who thinks winning the Fa cup is better than getting to play the best is deluded.

Of course the Champions league is better, but its pretty difficult to win that if you're not in it.

The only thing that would better our season would be winning the league. Id of loved us to qualify for the Champions league, but I would take two trophies over it, ideally it wouldn't be either/or but here we are.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

How about fucking putting a lid to it , just for today , ya know?

You know what. it's not worth it here anymore, I've removed the posts, talking sense here has long left the building.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

Of course the Champions league is better, but its pretty difficult to win that if you're not in it.

The only thing that would better our season would be winning the league. Id of loved us to qualify for the Champions league, but I would take two trophies over it, ideally it wouldn't be either/or but here we are.

And we are not in it next season either, of course people will tell you it was never possible this season, gods and fate and unmovable objects and all that.

[MassDriver]

You know what. it's not worth it here anymore, I've removed the posts, talking sense here has long left the building.

No

You may have some valid points but today is not the time to make em. That is all.

No offence intended.

[gazzathered]

You know what I'm so excited today were going to wembley, the history of this glorious trophy, the singing, on the march with Kenny, do you get this for coming fourth.

[robgomm]

Cup win/s are great and medals are great. They make memories better than finishing fourth. But it would be horrible to just be a cup team as it would be dull just to finish fourth every year. We need league progress, not least because the medal that beats all is the one we haven't won in decades.

[helmboy_nige]

Lose today and it's average.  Win today and it's very very good on the whole.

People are too hung up on the league.  Yes it is vital we get back into the top 4 asap (for financial reasons), but I look at the way we've played and we've been better than our results in the majority of games.  That says to me things can be a lot different next season.

2 cups out of 3 (hopefully) and anyone who turns their nose up at that is beyond demanding.

[geoffstrong]

 

When it says in the record books came third later played some shit swiss team got beat and knocked out medals on the way let me know, until then winning or even playing in cup finals at Wembley means a hell of a lot to fans who respect or history and it is the soul of this club!

Maybe some of you havent got that feeling in your heart,  if so you are missing a lot of what being a red is all about!

For every European night on the way to winning perhaps nothing I can give you Gerry Byrne broken collarbone 65 final., I can give you St John leaping like a salmon in a river to win that final, i can give you Shankly on the touchline in 74 and Twatting Supermac and his team. Owen against Arsenal, Henchoz goalkeeping skill on the pitch, and also Gerrard against West Ham all things that will live longer in our annuls than playing any round of the CL except the finals.

 They were good nights but not memorable ones in the record books in say another 50 years!

This club is built on glorious memories like those and many more including winning finals in Europe, that is heart, soul, and tradition.

 It is not built on maybe finishing fourth best and money through a cash till. that is some soulless business and we might as well support the local Asda store!

Edited out of fairness as the guy i quoted removed it

[Mighty_Red]

We are where we are, and the league position cannot be improved upon further than 7th, which really does not make a difference. That can be sorted out over the the summer and next season. For now it's all about winning the Cup and beating that shower

[Rafa_La]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/KuStsFW4EmQ?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_GB" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/KuStsFW4EmQ?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_GB</a>


Naffin' great OP, Oddball.

We ARE coming up the hill.

We ARE The King's Army

Bring on Wembley

[UntouchableLuis]

Lose today and it's average.  Win today and it's very very good on the whole.

People are too hung up on the league.  Yes it is vital we get back into the top 4 asap (for financial reasons), but I look at the way we've played and we've been better than our results in the majority of games.  That says to me things can be a lot different next season.

2 cups out of 3 (hopefully) and anyone who turns their nose up at that is beyond demanding.

2 cups would be fantastic - no one is suggesting otherwise.

But there's been far too many games where we haven't looked bothered in the league and that's not good enough. Whether we've deserved to get more points or not (and for me this arguement only really applies to some games before the Arsenal loss at home, since then we've deserved exactly what we've got.) there are too many players here that aren't good enough and wont be good enough next season either.

It's all well and good on the few days a season like this when you have a cup to fight for and win but what about all the other weeks of the season where we put in piss poor performances which fans have paid a lot of money to go and watch? A club like this has to handle numerous competitions - we can't be a mid-table team that only turns up in the cups, we just can't be.

[nevoo36]

Let's be honest. Eighth in the league is fucken appaling. When was the last time we finished 8th FFS.

Having said that, you can't tirn your nose up at a cup double.

we haven't finished 8th yet, could be 7th or even worse lower.

[GODS LEFT BOOT]

I just dont think there is a need to let the league take a shine off the cup / cups - enjoy them for what they are

[Zelnaga]

Shouls ask us after the FA Cup final.

[Jellies]

The feeling I have in my body right now.. you don't get that from winning 4th place or even 2nd. Cup finals are special. This club exists for trophys, and while we want both CL and cups, you don't get this buzzing feeling from getting the CL places.

I don't care what anyone says or if we've been good enough in the experts' eyes. I'm grateful for having a day like today and hopefully for having a trophy later on.

[LFC_4_life]

2 cups is incredible if we win both. However, it's only the first step and it won't mean anything in the long run unless we build upon it in the years to come.

Lets be honest though, winning cups will be remembered for years to come while  in a couple of year, top 4 finishes require a quick look at wikipedia to rememeber.

[Jellies]

2 cups is incrediblae if we win both. However, it's only the first step and it won't mean anything unless we build upon it.

A cup win, and especially two, will always mean something..

[LFC_4_life]

A cup win, and especially two, will always mean something..

mean to say that it won't mean anything in the long run unless we build upon it.

[schmev]

Right now, it doesn't feel like the bad season because if Chelsea win the CL final, 4th place would have meant fuck all and would have been a cruel joke.

Sure, it would have meant at least Europa league, but we're already in that.

It's a strange season now.  I'll go 'bad' season if we don't win tonight. 

[Jellies]

mean to say that it won't mean anything in the long run unless we build upon it.

That would go for anything then. My point would be that sometimes you have to seize the moment and celebrate a cup win for what it is rather than for what we'll accomplish next year or the year after. While we celebrate and get drunk over cup wins, Arsenal fans will always sit and be happy for their CL qualifications because that'll mean great things to come! Only problem is, they never quite get there. They just get to the CL to lose it, then qualify for it again to lose it once more.

'Bad' season. It's not up to us to judge, it's up to us to celebrate our wins and cups.

[SeanPenn]

Enjoy the final folks. Let next season take care of next season.

I can assure you all we will finish 8th or lower in the league in the future. Don't know when though.

We might just as well have a wee bit of luck next year and finish 2nd.

Football exists so teams can win trophies. Let's focus on that today  . Two out of three is not bad by any standard 

Let's twat these plastic bastards.