Topic: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent

[MaschHead]

Basically this. I mean no disrespect to Kenny by saying Cruyff is a bigger name. And it's not a discussion about who's the better player.

I never watched either of them play as they were way before my time. But for the non liverpool fan, Cruyff is more famous. Or at least it's true for my generation.

For the record, I don't think he'll leave Ajax soon so it's probably a pointless discussion anyway.

Yeah he doesn't want a full-time job, what he wants to do is to set up a plan, put the people in place and be available for advice. That's what he did at Barca and is now doing at Ajax. I'd be very surprised if he comes in as DOF or similar job.

[john_mac]

There, I quoted myself. 

Quote yourself as much as you like mate, it will not make you right. I never spoke about who knows who more nor about commentators. I said that I thought Kenny Dalglish was a better player than Johan Cruyff, the most important player in the most important team to me. The best player I have seen, a player who lightened up my days and nights as such dead ends as the Dell, Roker Park & Carrow Road.

I have seen Cruyff play with my own eyes, I have seen him play many times on television, admittedly mainly highlights and he was a wonderful footballer, a joy to watch. For the record he has less than 50 caps for Holland a decent number of them from the 60s, so I do think some of the 70s stuff is over the top, even if he were the best player in Europe at the start of that decade (Gerd Muller may disagree).

So yes, go on about your telly commentries and the like if you want, but don't try to take the opinion of those that were actually there away.

[PJG]

I don't think one DOF is enough

We need Beckenbauer, Sacchi, Cruyff and Zidane

Dream Team asssseeemblee!

starring Kenny Dalglish as Ron Burgandy

[Carlito Roberto]

As an amazing a player as he was and however much pull he's supposed to have, isn't Cruyff meant to be a bit of a...how shall I say this...wanker?

[Fuzion6]

I can't believe people are questioning the global brand that is Cruyff. Dalglish is Dalglish...a legend, but guys this is Johan Cryuff. We're talking Johan freaking Cruyff. Not even youngsters but if Cruyff went to Snjeider or Van Pirse and told them what to do, they would do it.

[john_mac]

but to non liverpool supporters and people across europe etc. Cruyff will be a bigger name, its just the way it is.

Again, can you just point me to where I said anything different? I have said that i believe many do not understand how big a name Kenny is/ was and that I think he were a better footballer for me.

[bluelady13]

What I love about the Cruyff rumour is that it is essentially just that. A rumour, being spread by the BBC, who offer no actual source for the fact that John Henry is 'a fan of Cruyff'.

Crazy.  If he was to come here as a DoF I would welcome him, but it's far too early to be making such assumptions.

Finally a bit of sense.

What is the actual purpose of this thread? It seems to me to be a Cruyff vs Dalglish thread, interesting as it is.

[peachybum]

What I love about the Cruyff rumour is that it is essentially just that. A rumour, being spread by the BBC, who offer no actual source for the fact that John Henry is 'a fan of Cruyff'.

Crazy.  If he was to come here as a DoF I would welcome him, but it's far too early to be making such assumptions.

Paul Tomkins mentioned on twitter yesterday that John Henry had asked him about Cruyff a couple of weeks ago. Maybe the beeb picked it up from there.

[Vidocq]

Again, can you just point me to where I said anything different? I have said that i believe many do not understand how big a name Kenny is/ was and that I think he were a better footballer for me.

you're turning this into Kenny vs Cruyff mate, and its going to get locked

[jooneyisdagod]

Quote yourself as much as you like mate, it will not make you right. I never spoke about who knows who more nor about commentators. I said that I thought Kenny Dalglish was a better player than Johan Cruyff, the most important player in the most important team to me. The best player I have seen, a player who lightened up my days and nights as such dead ends as the Dell, Roker Park & Carrow Road.

I have seen Cruyff play with my own eyes, I have seen him play many times on television, admittedly mainly highlights and he was a wonderful footballer, a joy to watch. For the record he has less than 50 caps for Holland a decent number of them from the 60s, so I do think some of the 70s stuff is over the top, even if he were the best player in Europe at the start of that decade (Gerd Muller may disagree).

So yes, go on about your telly commentries and the like if you want, but don't try to take the opinion of those that were actually there away.

In that case, you'll be glad to know that I was only saying the Cryuff is more well known than Dalglish.  I openly admitted that I had no idea who the better player was because they were both before my time.  Dalglish could well have been much better, I don't know and I'm not going to tell you he wasn't simply because some commentator talked about Cryuff. 

[john_mac]

For the record, I don't think he'll leave Ajax soon so it's probably a pointless discussion anyway.

Its obviously a pointless discussion, but that won't stop gobshites going over the top about him whilst writing off the greatest player to ever play for Liverpool Football Club and one of the most important figures in our history. Who gives a fuck?

The Anfield Cats been to more games than most in this gaff.

[john_mac]

you're turning this into Kenny vs Cruyff mate, and its going to get locked

If only

[Carlito Roberto]

Paul Tomkins mentioned on twitter yesterday that John Henry had asked him about Cruyff a couple of weeks ago. Maybe the beeb picked it up from there.

I'm sure John Henry will thank Tomkins for putting that on Twitter.

Anything for a few more paid subscribers I suppose.

[stevedo]

What is the actual purpose of this thread?

I have been wondering after reading the last couple of hours worth of pages.

[eirwen]

Again, can you just point me to where I said anything different? I have said that i believe many do not understand how big a name Kenny is/ was and that I think he were a better footballer for me.

It was never a discussion about who's the better player. It started as who would attract more players but you said Dalglish is a bigger name, no?

Anyway enough of this.

[jooneyisdagod]

Its obviously a pointless discussion, but that won't stop gobshites going over the top about him whilst writing off the greatest player to ever play for Liverpool Football Club and one of the most important figures in our history. Who gives a fuck?

The Anfield Cats been to more games than most in this gaff.

I don't think anyone has written Dalglish off.  Almost all the posts I've seen concerning this matter about how Cryuff is seen as being better known across Europe and as a result more likely to attract talent from outside the British isles.  I don't think anyone has actually said Cryuff was a better player even. 

[Hank Scorpio]

Isn't Cryuff a notoriously difficult character?  I don't know how that would fit with us.  He has had success previously when the ethos of the club has matched his own but I don't know whether that would work here.

Also I don't think it is just about attracting players, we need an attitude change amongst the current playing staff.

[SP]

Finally a bit of sense.

What is the actual purpose of this thread?

Natural Selection.

[Tepid water]

What I love about the Cruyff rumour is that it is essentially just that. A rumour, being spread by the BBC, who offer no actual source for the fact that John Henry is 'a fan of Cruyff'.

Crazy.  If he was to come here as a DoF I would welcome him, but it's far too early to be making such assumptions.

It's not just a rumour spread by the BBC


This was written by Tony Barrett (and I assume Ben Smith at the BBC got it from him).


This has come straight from the club....


Doesn't mean it's who they will get, but it's who they're saying they want.



Tony Barrett doesn't make stuff up, he's 100% straight.

[Giono]

Listening to the radio today the general consensus is that Comolli paid too much for the players we brought in.  After a season of under achievement they will be worth less than what we paid, but isn't that Kenny's responsibility?

No. I think FSG see definite roles between manager and DOF. To them the DOF as the money man. The crime is not that we bought average mid-table players, but that we grossly over-paid for them. Yes, the decisions on players is shared by the Manager and the DOF, but the primary responsibility for getting value in the transfers goes to the DOF. So Comolli is gone.

I think they see Kenny's job as being responsible for getting more juice from the orange, not primarily responsible for the quality of the oranges.

But...

I don't think they are going to decide Kenny's fate until they have a new DOF they trust, then they will take that new DOF's opinion into account. The fact they are moving so quickly this season on a DOF is because the transfer window is approaching. But also the time to make a decision about a manager for next season is approaching too. They would want a DOF to work with Kenny for a few weeks this season too. 

[joe ®]

Can we just get one thing straight? It's CRUYFF. Not Cryuff. You don't see people spelling Kuyt as 'Kyut', right?

[john_mac]

It was never a discussion about who's the better player. It started as who would attract more players but you said Dalglish is a bigger name, no?

No, it started with somebody saying how great it'd be to have Cruyff for x, y and z that Kenny wasn't. I was not having that and asked the question:

"Cruyff better than Dalglish? Not for me"

Does not really matter, its all fantasy footy bullshit anyway as ever in this gaff

[No666]

Ruthless say some, reckless says I.

Whilst people are lining up to praise them for ruthlessly dismissing Comolli for last summer, they’re missing the wood from the trees. The idea that the DoF is perhaps the most long-term role at the football club, and also that it was recklessness on their part initially to hire Comolli in that role through sheer nepotism.

I’ll be repeating myself a fair bit here, so I’ll just quote what I wrote about the situation last weekend:


My concern was given a bit of credence this morning when I had an email off someone who had been told by a pretty sound journo that Comolli’s appointment was basically suggested by Billy Beane, a baseball man, but a close friend of Comolli’s.

So here we have a couple of businessmen who think of themselves as the Thinking Men of sports business. Their first move after getting in the door is to give the most powerful, all-encompassing role at the football club to a friend of a friend on the recommendation of someone they admire in baseball. Oh yeah, we’re really moving forward and innovating.

It’s arguably a stupider call than Hicks & Gillet using Klinsman as a ‘football consultant’. Arguably that’s exactly what FSG needed. They needed someone who could help them out as they went along, safe in the knowledge that if they were undermining anyone it was a short-term manager who was deeply unpopular with the fans. The total opposite of H&G with Rafa.

But no, FSG with their self-appointed images of being both innovators and gamblers jumped straight in, appointing Damien Comolli to the role of Director of Football Strategy (and then ultimately Director of Football).

As I say, this is an organisation that expects us to grant them time and patience with decisions like the protracted firing of Hodgson, the search for an MD and the non-movement on the stadium front. How can they ask for patience, and expect us to trust they’re carrying out a full and proper search through the best candidates, when they give the role with the most power on the footballing side of things to Comolli on a whim.

This isn’t about the job Damien Comolli did. I happen to think he did alright and that long-term his signings will look better than they currently do. But that’s long-term. Whether you think Comolli pissed money up the wall this summer or not, I think you’ve got to say it is rash to give someone such a long-term role and then sack them so quickly for disappointing.

My point isn’t necessarily about Comolli though – I think he did ok, but I also don’t see what made him the stand-out candidate for the job in the first place, other than he was the only one. That’s kind of the crux of this. Whether you think Comolli was good or bad, the question should be why he got the job in the first place.

There’s plenty on here now praising their vision and their strategy for correcting their mistake so quickly, but once again they seem to have made the decision with no consultation from someone with experience in football, which is what got them into the mess in the first place.

Personally I think a Director of Football is essential at a club our size. I think a coach has to earn that level of power through success, which is what Ferguson and Wenger have done. A club shouldn’t be modeled on the whim of an individual whose job expectancy is usually two years (or at Liverpool probably close to 4-5 in the last 20 years).

You need someone to ensure that the vision remains consistent and unaltered. You need a support system to ensure the manager can do his job with people working around him. It’s about giving Kenny a platform that allows him to do his job. You don’t just give him that platform in name only and then hang him out to dry as has happened countless times this season, specifically with the Suarez case but on other issues as well.

You don’t necessarily call it a Director of Football, because that title carries a certain stigma in this country for some reason. It’s too foreign to swallow perhaps. You have someone in position to carry through that long-term strategy though. If you want Kenny to use more of the kids from the academy you have someone who says that to the press, who says that there isn’t immediate pressure if the results go wrong. You don’t have people giving us a target at the start of the season whilst simultaneously querying why we’re not seeing 5 or 6 home grown teenagers a week (ok, slight hyperbole, but you see what I’m getting at).


I could rant on this a while, but I’m arsed. I’m being asked to place faith in a long-term strategy where people are employed through nepotism, and now we’re being asked to hold faith while they correct that ‘mistake’, with another decision on a whim with seemingly no advice behind it from someone of a football background. We’ll see.

Good post. But not so much nepotism, Juan, as utter out-of-their-comfort-zone naivety. I agree with you on the rest: to compound the initial error, they acted hastily in promoting Comolli. Where caution was called for they delivered rashness; where action was called for (with Hodgson) they prevaricated. Just been saying to Roy this morning, that FSG thread could do with reopening. A lot of questions raised and a watching brief to be kept.

[Juan Loco]

Graham Hunter has just said to our very own Royhendo on Twatter that Chelsea are 'working their butts off' to get TB.

They have been for ages. The reason he hasn't taken a job there already is because they don't seem to have any fucking idea what he actually does and are just using him in some bizarre hope of attracting Guardiola.

Absolute clusterfuck that club is.

[Skrtels Head]

Can we just get one thing straight? It's CRUYFF. Not Cryuff. You don't see people spelling Kuyt as 'Kyut', right?

Fyuck off! 

[Get]

Can we just get one thing straight? It's CRUYFF. Not Cryuff. You don't see people spelling Kuyt as 'Kyut', right?

its all so confusing Just like when u hear dutch commentators say kuyt and u wonder who they are talking about

[Mr Dilkington]

They have been for ages. The reason he hasn't taken a job there already is because they don't seem to have any fucking idea what he actually does and are just using him in some bizarre hope of attracting Guardiola.

Absolute clusterfuck that club is.

We might not have the financial clout that Chelsea have (less so know given City's emergence) but surely there's loads we can offer TB that Chelsea can't.

I'd like to think the fact Chelsea are trying to persuade him to go to Kings road won't put us off at least trying to get him. If indeed he is someone FSG identify as a suitable candidate.

[Joga]

We get it, you go to the match.

[mactifosi]

I think people and the press read too much into the Cruyff story.   

Isn't it more about the system and playing style he brought to Barca rather than the individual.
Aren't we trying to emulate that system somewhat at the Academy?

I could see FSG using him as a consultant but not as a DOF, I doubt Cruyff would even want the DOF role.



[edited to correct spelling]

[eirwen]

I still don't know what exactly is the job description of the DOF. I know there are different types out there, but what do we want?

[john_mac]

We get it, you go to the match.

Which goes a bit against the grain in here, supporting the team and that, when you can sit in the house leathering everything to do with the club.

[Chakan]

We might not have the financial clout that Chelsea have (less so know given City's emergence) but surely there's loads we can offer TB that Chelsea can't.

I'd like to think the fact Chelsea are trying to persuade him to go to Kings road won't put us off at least trying to get him. If indeed he is someone FSG identify as a suitable candidate.

TB is who again?

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Which goes a bit against the grain in here, supporting the team and that, when you can sit in the house leathering everything to do with the club.

Nah, it's just off topic a bit isn't it

[Juan Loco]

We might not have the financial clout that Chelsea have (less so know given City's emergence) but surely there's loads we can offer TB that Chelsea can't.

I'd like to think the fact Chelsea are trying to persuade him to go to Kings road won't put us off at least trying to get him. If indeed he is someone FSG identify as a suitable candidate.

Total hope-based assumption on my part, but if we could offer him a similar salary, I'm sure he'd want to come to a club where he'd actually know what his job is. ... Nevermind the respective caché that Liverpool carries compared to Chelsea.

But yeah, so far just a few lines from the Beeb saying they like him.

What I find bizarre about the Beeb compared to the Tony Barrett article is that Bergiristain is about as far removed from someone like Cruijff or Van Gaal as you could expect working under a similar job title.

[eirwen]

No, it started with somebody saying how great it'd be to have Cruyff for x, y and z that Kenny wasn't. I was not having that and asked the question:

"Cruyff better than Dalglish? Not for me"

But you said that to me when all I said was "But I suppose having Cruyff would attract many players"! lol

[Trumps]

TB is who again?

Beguiristain?

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

We get it, you go to the match.

Its all he ever goes on about,plenty on here go to the game just don't shout about it.

[Mr Dilkington]

Total hope-based assumption on my part, but if we could offer him a similar salary, I'm sure he'd want to come to a club where he'd actually know what his job is. ... Nevermind the respective caché that Liverpool carries compared to Chelsea.

But yeah, so far just a few lines from the Beeb saying they like him.

What I find bizarre about the Beeb compared to the Tony Barrett article is that Bergiristain is about as far removed from someone like Cruijff or Van Gaal as you could expect working under a similar job title.

Which brings us back to the most worrying aspect of all this.

Do FSG actually know what they want from the DOF?

[Chakan]

Beguiristain?

Ah righto.

[john_mac]

Nah, it's just off topic a bit isn't it

well the topic should be the biggest game of the season but not in here its wink, wink, TB, JC or DC. Shite