Topic: The Downing Enigma

[Red Bird]

Think this is rubbish, Babel was not just lazy he was and still is absolutely clueless on the pitch.  He has absolutely no game intelligence at all.  Kenny would have struggled to get any more out of him than Rafa and his current manager.  Downing has that intelligence and once he finds his balls will be a be a better player for Liverpool than Babel would ever be.

Downing has more intelligence? You're joking, of course.

Babel was rather thick , I agree but was far more effective than Downing; he actually scored a few goals in his first season, too.

[RyanBabel19]

The Babel Downing comparisons are funny

One was a 20/21 year old in a new country, new league and new team who spoke a completely different language, and as far as i can remember didn't even start 3 or more games in a row more than once. The other one is 27, has played out the vast majority of his career in this same league, has no language barrier and has been afforded a WEALTH of starts, grouped closely together. First season - Former 11 goals 6 assists, latter 2 goals and 1 assist ?

For all the people claiming downing shows game intellegence i would love to know how, he regularly runs into Enrique, how is that even possible ? He releases the ball and stands still instead of running into the box, he doesn't seem to know how to attack the far post and regularly crosses or shoots when he should retain posession.

Downing deserves our support, he is the one still wearing a liverpool shirt, but we deserve our support being repayed with 100% effort and showing some fucking bottle and showing up to every game with every intention of doing whatever you can to help us win the game. If he doesn't turn up and sort himself out then we have a problem, i still dont understand the confidence thing at 27 years old but its been done to death. I liked Babel and i like Downing aswell but NEITHER of them are the left winger we need to go places in my own personal opinion, i dont know about anyone else but i feel we need better. To me contributing 2 goals in 40 games (which is only 1 goal more than 3 of the back four who have been regularly injured) is pathetic but maybe im just overly critical. Im willing to give him time but somethings got to give and there needs to be a massive step up.

[bepoq]

wretched thread. extreme opinions in unpleasant language, constant sneering at players or other supporters. Scoring points off current and former management to serve whatever ideology we have about them, and for what? To make a dodgy comparison between one player who didn't make it here and another who is in his first season and is struggling to. Helpful to both and the current set up indeed. Watch for an article in the press shortly that mentions that Downing is not even living up to the "failed" Babel.

And, "we deserve"?? Really? And "100% percent?"

Do me a fucking favour.

[unusg]

amazing isnt it that most on tis thread rate babel more than Downing. Given the amount of stick we gave Ryan it says something to me about how poor Downing has been this season.

[Teddy Ted Ted Anfield Ed]

Both Babel and Downing are not good enough.

[Cormack Snr]

Downing has another season to prove himself before he joins the long list of failures on the wing since JB.

[penga]

Babel had 4 season here.

Downing had almost 1.

Compare.

Downing has almost played as much as Babel in 1 season compared to 4 lol. One regularly starts despite mediocre performances, the other dropped even after good performances (e.g. after 4-0 Real Madrid, dropped for the rest of the season after that, only saw like 30 mins of game time with El Zhar preferred)

I'd say your going the complete opposite.  To say or even suggest that Babel is a better crosser than Downing is bordering on the ridiculous.  Babel was a headless chicken whose pace made him look far better than he was.  The fact that even since leaving us he has not gone on to be better would suggest that he never had what it took to make it.  He was a player with potential that failed to realise it and was moved on he is not the first and will not be the last.

Downing is in his first season and whilst he has not shone Kenny has kept faith in him so Kenny sees somithing in him, he may be wrong but I would not put money on it.  Rafa one of the best managers in the world did not rate Babel and did not play him says it all for me.  The fact that Babel has only scored around 5 goals in 40 appearances for the Hoff since leaving playing where he wants seems to point to Rafa being right all along

Anyways

Babel didn't cross that much but when he did it was generally quality and he always knew when to cross, it's always directed at someone. Downing crosses differently, perhaps with better technique but does it too often when no one is there.

This in what 500 mins of irregular football in half a season under the Hodge? Plenty of good crosses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30zLdVKEpiY&feature=plcp&context=C4a25e95VDvjVQa1PpcFMxSvhAwX8loJTRqcX7hiBfjIri02TjN4o=

Rafa was playing him much more at the end of his reign in case you didn't notice. This was when Babel finally accepted he had to work extra hard in defence and tracking back. Babel has a questionable mentality, maybe he doesn't really want to be at Hoff as his tweets may have suggested, he didn't want to be sold. Either way I agree his career has gone down the shitter, partly the way he was treated/developed and partly his own fault. Would've been much more optimistic about Kenny getting the best out of him because Kenny is a great man manager.

[ziggyy]

And good old Babel could also double up as a back up striker, whereas Downing's backup role is probably a training cone...

Would be interesting to see how he plays with someone like Suarez in the team. Oh well....

[jooneyisdagod]

Babel had 4 season here.

Downing had almost 1.

Compare.

Babel was 21 and signed for the future.  Downing was a premiership proven player who was supposed to hit the ground running. 

[Mohammad Shahrul]

He deserves our support as he is The Reds player but as others have suggested, he has to pay back with a 100%
commitment to his game... Ergh, I dont even mind now if its only with 80% commitment, more than good enough
than previous performance... I love him but please,  spend more time in training ground to improve when / where
the timing to cross during the game!!! He is 27 years old and surely we hope at least one assist per game... We
are demanding assists, not 10-30 goals per season... So I think its fair to the fans... Cross after cross after
cross, aarrgghh!!! Cant even beat the first pig in the penalty box area... If his teammates or staffs are too busy
to help Downing with the crossing training, Im willing to call the Liverpool FC management, request the permission
to be allowed for 24 hours in Melwood  training ground, email my further notice to require the presence of
Downing and I ll be there. Everytime he crosses the ball, Im the one who will pick the ball and deliver it back
to him like a lower class servant. Cross more, I will pick more and deliver back to him. Free of charge, I dont want
a money. I want him to improve and really happy if he can cross superbly. Downing doesnt even have to pay for my
breakfast sandwich even I know he is much fucking richer than me...
 
 
 
 

[jooneyisdagod]

He deserves our support as he is The Reds player but as others have suggested, he has to pay back with a 100%
commitment to his game... Ergh, I dont even mind now if its only with 80% commitment, more than good enough
than previous performance... I love him but please,  spend more time in training ground to improve when / where
the timing to cross during the game!!! He is 27 years old and surely we hope at least one assist per game... We
are demanding assists, not 10-30 goals per season... So I think its fair to the fans... Cross after cross after
cross, aarrgghh!!! Cant even beat the first pig in the penalty box area... If his teammates or staffs are too busy
to help Downing with the crossing training, Im willing to call the Liverpool FC management, request the permission
to be allowed for 24 hours in Melwood  training ground, email my further notice to require the presence of
Downing and I ll be there. Everytime he crosses the ball, Im the one who will pick the ball and deliver it back
to him like a lower class servant. Cross more, I will pick more and deliver back to him. Free of charge, I dont want
a money. I want him to improve and really happy if he can cross superbly. Downing doesnt even have to pay for my
breakfast sandwich even I know he is much fucking richer than me...
 
 
 
 

 

[Discipline]

 

Best poster.

[Discipline]

Both Babel and Downing are not good enough.

I may be the only one that rated the guy, but whatever. The worst thing is... we lost 14m for another "average" player who is most likely picking up more wages also.

amazing isnt it that most on tis thread rate babel more than Downing. Given the amount of stick we gave Ryan it says something to me about how poor Downing has been this season.

You can go through my posts... I never wanted him gone to begin with. 

[Notayesman]

Jesus are you sure you lads were watching Ryan Babel? He was as bad if not worse than Downing the only thing he had in his favour was the few goals he scored, the price tag and the fact that he had some excuse of youth. It never ceases to amaze me how these players suddenly become start players after they leave.

[Finn Solomon]

It's no enigma, he's not a very good player and hasn't lived up to the expectations we had when he arrived. He'll have another season to prove himself.

[rednich85]

I don't think people realise how ineffective RyBabs was.

Maybe watching Stewie has jogged a few memories.

[ziggyy]

Jesus are you sure you lads were watching Ryan Babel? He was as bad if not worse than Downing the only thing he had in his favour was the few goals he scored, the price tag and the fact that he had some excuse of youth. It never ceases to amaze me how these players suddenly become start players after they leave.

He did this: #FreeSuarez

That's nearly as good as scoring the 4th goals against ManU and the little team in white;)

[stevedo]

So were all hoping for one reason or another that he has a good Euros, we can at least all agree on that, yes?

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Forget the intelligence - Downing should be embarrassed at his age and experience that he doesnt have BALLS to play like Sterling let alone Babel.

That for me is the saddest endictment of him as a player - when you think of the qualities a LIVERPOOL midfielder should possess the very first one is that he shouldnt be scared of his own shadow. This is the team of Souness, Case, Gerrard FFS.

[Discipline]

So were all hoping for one reason or another that he has a good Euros, we can at least all agree on that, yes?

Regardless of him having a good or bad Euro campaign, there's no way we're going to get back that 20m.

[Mohammad Shahrul]

Regardless of him having a good or bad Euro campaign, there's no way we're going to get back that 20m.

Im thinking of we loan Downing to Barca for 6 months, then we take him back after he might learn a thing or two
from Andres Iniesta. I believe it might be good for him and us as his price tag is going to increase tremendously
after playing with the best team on the planet.

[Discipline]

Im thinking of we loan Downing to Barca for 6 months, then we take him back after he might learn a thing or two
from Andres Iniesta. I believe it might be good for him and us as his price tag is going to increase tremendously
after playing with the best team on the planet.

He wouldn't even make their bench. 

[Bjinxi]

I have to admit that i was disappointed when we bought him, as i never rated him.
I am not suprised about how he is playing and what he is contributing. Wingers or the more successful ones, always want to have the ball - look at Robben, Ribéry, Ronaldo, Valencia, and the List could go on and on.

Downing on the other hand is a perfect example of a follower, he rather shys away than want the ball, he doesnt want responsibility because he has no confidence in himself, which at 27 years having always played in the PL is embarrasing.

I think he may be an okaish squadplayer but he is no Player who will get us into the Top 4.
If wie can afford to keep him as a squad player then we should keep him. But i rather we give Sterling his Spot and go for a Top class winger or at least for someone who has the potential to be worldclass. Because to me I dont think Downing will improve greatly in the next seasons.

And why on Earth should he Need more time to settle. Wasnt the argument to Bus him, that he wouldnt need to, at least not that long, since he always played in the PL??

For me his Standard (this season )is not acceptable and especially after playing game after game, no matter how bad he was with having the one odd good Game, mainly against lower class oppositions, can  not be seen as significant improvement.

And yes sometimes he Works for the team, but that is the least Ican expect.

But I think with Money available I think Kenny will sort it out or sells him to West Ham if they go up. Because he should be nowhere near our First Eleven if wie challenge for the Top four spot, if he doesnt improve quickly.

But I hope he proves me wrong and I support him as long as he is in our Team.

[The G in Gerrard]

So were all hoping for one reason or another that he has a good Euros, we can at least all agree on that, yes?

I'd be surprised if he got much game time

[scatman]

Don't think people should be using the Downing runs into Enrique point to argue against Downing's game intelligence.
Fact is no-one, absolutely no-one on our team looks like they can play on the left wing and look like dovetailing well with Enrique. I'd go as far as to say Enrique's "football intelligence" is thicker and more retarded than either Downing's or Babels. Enrique is a fucking enigma.

Babel's game intelligence is absolute shite as well, a lad who took the wrong option 9/10 times.

[hollger]

Im thinking of we loan Downing to Barca for 6 months, then we take him back after he might learn a thing or two
from Andres Iniesta. I believe it might be good for him and us as his price tag is going to increase tremendously
after playing with the best team on the planet.

This wouldn't even happen in FM 

Great line of thinking, though!

[LondonRedMan]

Both Babel and Downing are not good enough.

You can't judge Downing on 7 months of football. He needs to be given more time and SUPPORT. Andy is turning his doubters roundd, Lucas has already done so...Downing may well do the same.

[hollger]

Don't think people should be using the Downing runs into Enrique point to argue against Downing's game intelligence.
Fact is no-one, absolutely no-one on our team looks like they can play on the left wing and look like dovetailing well with Enrique. I'd go as far as to say Enrique's "football intelligence" is thicker and more retarded than either Downing's or Babels. Enrique is a fucking enigma.

I agree to an extent. A lot of the time I see him make a superb run - be it on his own by beating a player or two, or laying the ball off and tearing off into space for the return ball - only to ruin all the good work a lot of the time by over doing it. Instead of playing that simple pass or releasing the early cross, he'll attempt to get into the box and beat four defenders trying to lay on an open goal for a team mate. He could really do with working on his game intelligence although a lot of the time, to be fair, his team mates aren't offering the options either.

Anyway back on topic - Downing has been a massive disappointment this season but I don't think he's a "stupid" player. I think for whatever reason he has shied away from things this year, whether it's the 'Liverpool factor' or not he should be able to get on with his game. At his age it shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps he really doesn't have what it takes to perform at the level we expect and is struggling with this - all I know is he put in many, many better performances for Villa and whilst not setting anything alight (by this I mean footballer of the year levels) even at that level he would have done alright for us this season. Hopefully he can pull it together next season, if we stick with him.

[Stan.]

I was impressed with him at Villa last season.  He wasn't a flashy winger, but his passing, delivery, creativity and movement was always of a high standard.  Ashley Young was the more dynamic skilful player, but I thought we'd got the better more consistent all-rounder in Downing. 

Goes without saying though that he's been a shadow of that player for us.  Whether he and others feel they don't have to make the same effort when playing alongside 'better' players, I don't know, but he's been really disappointing for a player I was convinced would come here and prove the doubters wrong.

End of the day, when you come from a mid-table club, you're a mid-table player until you prove you can make the step up.  I think certain members of our squad this season thought all they had to do was sign on the dotted line.

[5-times-Phill]

You can't judge Downing on 7 months of football. He needs to be given more time and SUPPORT. Andy is turning his doubters roundd, Lucas has already done so...Downing may well do the same.

It's probably more likely that he's judging him on 10 years of Premier League football.
His game intelligence is awful, one of the worst players off the ball i've seen. He consistantly stands in area's were he's of no use at all then throws his hands up in frustration when he doesn't get the ball. It's even got to the point where we have a laugh in ground when he does it. And i'm sick of watching him bring the ball inside, take a touch and then smash it into the defender a yard in front of him. At least once a game he does that.
I think he's been an expensive mistake but saying all that if we can sign a quality wide option in summer than i'd be happy to have Downing in the squad.

[stevedo]

I'd be surprised if he got much game time

Downing Bent Young looked a decent combination. Hopefully England get to play enough games for Downing to get minutes, be it shop window or getting his head straight for "series 2" of his Liverpool saga.

[lindylou100]

I think i saw an interview with Brad Freidel a couple of weeks ago where he stated that Downing struggled in his first season at Villa because it took him a long time to settle (personally) after the move from middleborough and feel comfortable with his team mates because he's shy, but the following season he improved a lot and was fine. It would make sense that this could be happening here as the first half of the season he was anonymous but now he seems to be doing a lot better. I guess the time to really judge would be next season.

[Bullan]

It's no enigma, he's not a very good player and hasn't lived up to the expectations we had when he arrived. He'll have another season to prove himself.

I'm not one to slag off players , as my post history will prove , and I agree that all players should be given a fair crack of the whip.
But nothing Downing has done this season suggests to me he should be our main man on either wing in the future.

I am happy to be proved wrong , but there is just nothing i've seen in him , that suggests he is the kind of aggressive dynamic winger/inside forward that can be instrumental in a team trying to challlenge for anything.

He just comes across as the ultimate company man , happy to plod along , never stick his head above the parapet, completely content with never ever taking a risk for fear of failure.

Comparing him with someone like Babel probably is a bit unfair on them both , but you can clearly see one player is aggressive and wants to score and contribute to the play, the other one well is Downing.

It does speak volumes that people saw more in a 10 odd minute cameo from Sterling than Downing has done all season and I think the common denominator is that both Babel and Sterling look hungry whereas Stewy just seems happy to plod along. 

[Discipline]

By the way, when I mentioned Babel I wasn't really comparing him to Babel. Was more the fact that we lost 14m (6m in for Babel's sale;20m to bring in Downing) for a player that hasn't improved the wing situation.

Feels as if I've said 14m 'bout 10 times in this thread.

[Jason_King]

Babel was unrealised potential, quick, good shot, dozy.


Simple question

ten minutes to go, you need a goal. You have 1 sub left and have a choice of Downing or Babel- who do you go for......

[Stan.]

Babel was unrealised potential, quick, good shot, dozy.


Simple question

ten minutes to go, you need a goal. You have 1 sub left and have a choice of Downing or Babel- who do you go for......

Babel no doubt, but that's not a good enough reason alone to have a player in your squad.

Downing was brought in to basically do all the things Babel failed to do; play most games, keep possession, get decent delivery into the box from wide areas and create chances.  He did this for Villa last season but he's yet to show he can do it for us. 

I totally 'get' why we signed him, but he's just not reproduced it for us.  Hopefully he'll be better for the experience next season, if not I imagine he'll be gone.

[Neil D]

Hope he starts on the right again on Sunday ahead of GJ.

[Mohammad Shahrul]

I hope Downing will start today and score a hat-trick. He deserves his final chance next season to be fair to
him - repeat, final chance. I hope he is going to be good and if he scores 20 goals next season, I hope
he will not leave us like Mascherano if Barca or Madrid offer him a good price. For current, yea he deserves
our support as his shirt is The Reds.

[Discipline]

I hope Downing will start today and score a hat-trick. He deserves his final chance next season to be fair to
him - repeat, final chance. I hope he is going to be good and if he scores 20 goals next season, I hope
he will not leave us like Mascherano if Barca or Madrid offer him a good price. For current, yea he deserves
our support as his shirt is The Reds.

[Melbred]

Hope he starts on the right again on Sunday ahead of GJ.

If it means Maxi/Bellamy are sat on the bench, I don't want Downing starting.