Topic: Andy Carroll: Future uncertain.... ?

[swordfishtrombone]

Carroll was much better last season, especially after Christmas, than many people give him credit for. I assume a lot of these people didn't see him play in person, but he had lots of good games without scoring goals. Some of his link up play was fantastic, and if he'd made some of those flick ons with his feet and not his head people would be raving about him. Still lots of weaknesses in his game of course, but he's got time to work on them. I hope there's a place for him in Rodgers squad, but maybe he'd rather have the money to reinvest in another type of striker.

[Vidocq]

how would you rate his movement for 1 to 10?

thats the main ability for a striker i believe...

[moses]

BR would be a fool to completely dismiss big Andy. What to we do when his tippy tappa football fails to break a team down? Andy at least deserves a chance to stake a claim

[Gods_Left_Boot]

how would you rate his movement for 1 to 10?

thats the main ability for a striker i believe...

One of the main attributes, granted... I think that his movement and also his positioning in the box and understanding of the flow of the game can be markedly improved, and at times his runs must be more decisive. Still, he was routinely fed long, floated, biteless balls, always having to battle at least two opponents to reach the ball.
He has to keep working hard on his flaws and deficiencies, but the team can do SO much better in making him more efficient:

1- Start whipping the bloody football in. Nuff with them feckin floaters
2- Send more people in the box: there'd be a multiple benefit; Andy would be freed up of pressure (and he's quite possibly the most dominant player in Europe in 1on1 aerial duels) and the attention he'd draw would give space to the midfielders to be very dangerous (thats one of the reason why I'd definitely sign Dempsey, with his excellent-timed runs, fearlessness and aerial ability).

[greytop11]

If AC gets shipped out to AC then it will be a travesty!! Towards the end of last season the big man was unplayable and defences literally shat themselves when facing him. All will be forgiven though if Pato comes the other way ;-)

[Malaysian Kopite]

Apologies if already posted:

Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has admitted he would consider sending England striker Andy Carroll out on loan to get "game experience".

The 23-year-old has struggled to live up to expectations since moving to Anfield from Newcastle for £35million 18 months ago.

He is reportedly wanted on a season-long by AC Milan, and Rodgers said in the Daily Telegraph: "It's something I would have to look at, I have to be honest.

"I'm not going to sit here and say I will never let anyone go on loan, then come in here in two weeks and a player's gone, and you're saying 'you said you wouldn't let them go'.

"There are many things to going on loan. Is it going to be beneficial for the club, that's the most important thing?

"Sometimes a player going out on loan - in general, not just Andy - can benefit the club in the long term.

"It gets them game experience, and they come back a better player, a more confident one. Certainly more so than if they've been sitting on the bench for the majority of the season.

"Andy's always going to be linked with clubs, whether he was here or not. I have spoken to him on his holidays, he knows exactly where he stands, but I have had no inquiries about him."

[keyo]

Apologies if already posted:

Rodgers said in the Daily Telegraph: "It's something I would have to look at, I have to be honest.

"I'm not going to sit here and say I will never let anyone go on loan, then come in here in two weeks and a player's gone, and you're saying 'you said you wouldn't let them go'.

"There are many things to going on loan. Is it going to be beneficial for the club, that's the most important thing?

"Sometimes a player going out on loan - in general, not just Andy - can benefit the club in the long term.

"It gets them game experience, and they come back a better player, a more confident one. Certainly more so than if they've been sitting on the bench for the majority of the season.

"Andy's always going to be linked with clubs, whether he was here or not. I have spoken to him on his holidays, he knows exactly where he stands, but I have had no inquiries about him."

pointed question about caroll and edited reponse, read without the narrative used to suit the headline.....says very little, certainly not that he is on his way to milan on loan

[Vidocq]

One of the main attributes, granted... I think that his movement and also his positioning in the box and understanding of the flow of the game can be markedly improved, and at times his runs must be more decisive. Still, he was routinely fed long, floated, biteless balls, always having to battle at least two opponents to reach the ball.
He has to keep working hard on his flaws and deficiencies, but the team can do SO much better in making him more efficient:

1- Start whipping the bloody football in. Nuff with them feckin floaters
2- Send more people in the box: there'd be a multiple benefit; Andy would be freed up of pressure (and he's quite possibly the most dominant player in Europe in 1on1 aerial duels) and the attention he'd draw would give space to the midfielders to be very dangerous (thats one of the reason why I'd definitely sign Dempsey, with his excellent-timed runs, fearlessness and aerial ability).

i dont think you can learn movement, thats instinctive ability

Dzeko is big as Andy, and he's better at everything....movement,speed,pass...more complete player in one word,  Andy in other hand is very limited...for some reason i think Brendan doesnt like limited players

[Brentie]

I argued long and hard that it was impossible to fit Andy Carroll in our team last season.

His touch, vision and passing are simply not good enough for a player expected to lead the line for a pass and move football team.

Like he showed in the Cup Final, he's perhaps the best Plan B in world football. However, as a plan A, it's nigh on impossible to fit him into a pass and move team AND get the best out of him and the team.

I really took to him at the end of last season and I'd like to keep him, precisely because I believe he can do a lot of damage to a team if we need to go direct. But if we need the money, I completely undertsand the reasons behing selling him.

However, if we loan him it'll show that whatever Liverpool Football do and whoever they bring to manage the team we're still as suicidal and catrastophicaly bad in the trasnfer market as ever.

[swordfishtrombone]

i dont think you can learn movement, thats instinctive ability

Dzeko is big as Andy, and he's better at everything....movement,speed,pass...more complete player in one word,  Andy in other hand is very limited...for some reason i think Brendan doesnt like limited players

Oh his movement is appalling, particularly inside the box. I do think that's something you can work on and improve, but to be fair we didn't see much of an improvement during the 18 months he's been here. I guess it's related to something that's been mentioned in the youth/reserves thread on numerous occasions. British players (and players from other countries too, Brazil in recent years for example) are often selected at a young age because of their physical characteristics. Andy will have been dominating defenders since he was a (not so) wee boy, and as a result probably hasn't had to learn the importance of clever movement in the penalty area.

[Camarero25]

Lewandowski played in a much better team, more suited to his strengths, also was often the only striker. He also started 38 games where Carroll started only 21. This can go on with more stats like chances/chances converted. There is no point to compare the two.
(If you really want to, look at their contributions at Euro. Without knowing the league stats, Andy looked twice the player in less minutes and in a much harder group)

Good god really? So we can't compare the two judging on a whole season but we can compare them judging by 3-4 games? I don't even think Carroll looked better than Lewandowski in the Euros anyway.

In my honest opinion Carroll is largely overrated by a quite a few on this site. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but you'd think he was Ibrahimovic the way some go on about him on here. I don't think he's a particularly good "footballer" either. He's decent and occasionally good with his feet, but take away his aerial ability and I'm not sure he'd be much more than an average player. His technique isn't the greatest and his movement is downright poor a lot of the time.

If Rodgers really does intend to play pure "Tiki Taka" (and I fucking hate that phrase), then I would struggle to see where Carroll would fit in other than as a "Plan B". With the wages he's on and the transfer fee we could potentially get for him, perhaps that money could be better invested in someone who'd fit our style more comfortably.

[Believe]

Can't see AC going on loan, this is more of a gauntlet thrown down to him by BR for me - clever and will hopefully get the desired results. Andy has everything he needs but just needs to keep applying himself and working hard.

[incredibleL4ever]

For me it would make more sense to give Carroll a go under the new manager.  If he does not adapt and is just bench warming there are plenty clubs that would take him on loan in January. 

[Devastatin' Dave]

Of those who believe that physical strikers bloom later, would he prefer that he went on loan or not?

Micahel Ricketts had exactly the same 18 month spell as Carroll did in the Championship/ Premiership, albeit at age 23/24, so there are also examples of things going downhill after that.

That isn't to say that he won't make it, but he has a long way to go.

In my point of view, surely him going out on loan would give him the chance to develop somewhere else, also I think moving abroad for a season could help him improve his game. The only risk I see, is that if he were to go to Milan, then he would generally be on the bench and not get the regular games he needs.

[sattapaal]

i dont think you can learn movement, thats instinctive ability

Dzeko is big as Andy, and he's better at everything....movement,speed,pass...more complete player in one word,  Andy in other hand is very limited...for some reason i think Brendan doesnt like limited players

i dont think his movement is all that bad he's a 5 or 6/10. sometimes he's too far away from the area, sometimes he was too isolated.

think about it this way; movement is anticipation and drive. if you think "that ball is not coming in, theyre just going to pass it in field." then would you make that run near post?

i think with his renewed drive and determination, you will see his anticipation and movement increase in and around the penalty area. it takes time to bed in with your new club mates and with that will come certain movements that will get us goals. even if he takes 2 defenders out of the game and our wingers can get in and score, its still something beneficial to the team.

i dont think its fair that he's either really crap or really world class. he is a player with "different" attributes and i think these attributes will do good for us next season.

[Fromola]

A player reduces in value if he goes out on loan. If Rodgers doesn't want him then just sell him for as much as we can.

Hopefully he stays because we won't get any more than £15m max, which could be why we decide to loan him - even though that'll just decrease his value even more.

If Carroll went to Milan or somewhere on loan and had a bad time there his value would be practically nothing, and Rodgers still wouldn't want him, so what then? Loan him out again?

[Tomaldinho]

Regardless of whether or not you rate him, Milan can do one trying to loan another player off us.

[The 5th Benitle]

Why does it seem to be accepted these days that that lazy, arrogant c*nt Ibrahimovic is some sort of great player?

[Shannon]

Nice cherry picking.

The irony especially when you focus on Carroll scoring 4 goals to suit your argument when in fact he scored 9.

[Camarero25]

Why does it seem to be accepted these days that that lazy, arrogant c*nt Ibrahimovic is some sort of great player?

Erm... Because he is. He scores loads of goals and he wins loads of trophies.

[Shannon]

Until I see a transcript of that interview with Rodgers I will refuse to believe it as anything other then completely out of context. Rodger hasn't given the media anything to get their teeth into- I seriously doubt he would give them ammo like that about Andy.

Regardless, every player at Liverpool deserves at least 6 months under Brendan.

[Camarero25]

Until I see a transcript of that interview with Rodgers I will refuse to believe it as anything other then completely out of context. Rodger hasn't given the media anything to get their teeth into- I seriously doubt he would give them ammo like that about Andy.

Regardless, every player at Liverpool deserves at least 6 months under Brendan.

Nah. If he doesn't like the look of them in training/ pre season and he feels the money from their sale could be invested better elsewhere then so be it.

[Lenin]

Which of Andy's four goals last season were scored in the manner you describe, i.e. creatively using the ball in a crowded box after receiving it via short passing? Which of his three assists?

He scored 9 goals last season.

[Stretch Armstrong]

Can you comment on Andy's movement when our distribution as a team is simply woeful at times, his movement at Newcastle was fine so we need to judge Andy when he's actually playing in a decent team and being given decent ball.  Anybody who seen Carroll against the likes of Chelsea will understand that
 if Liverpool play expansive football then Andy is unstoppable (ask John Terry)

Let's give the lad a chance because going off the last couple of seasons most of our players have been poor

[Red Genius]

Can you comment on Andy's movement when our distribution as a team is simply woeful at times, his movement at Newcastle was fine so we need to judge Andy when he's actually playing in a decent team and being given decent ball.  Anybody who seen Carroll against the likes of Chelsea will understand that
 if Liverpool play expansive football then Andy is unstoppable (ask John Terry)

Let's give the lad a chance because going off the last couple of seasons most of our players have been poor

Go on then lad, giz us his number.... i'll call him a racist twat while i've got him.

[Stretch Armstrong]

Go on then lad, giz us his number.... i'll call him a racist twat while i've got him.

I'll wait for the court to make that decision then forward it to you

[mercurial]

Nah. If he doesn't like the look of them in training/ pre season and he feels the money from their sale could be invested better elsewhere then so be it.

Agreed. As long as it is dictated only by what he sees in the training pitch and not what the club "advisers" see as a financial asset. The spin machine is spinning so fast that it is hard to discern right or wrong. If Carroll goes because he has under performed, because we have a talent who is better(even potentially better) to replace him then it is fine. If this is only to free up money to invest and say that we spent 50m this window, then this is just the H&G repeated again. That to me looks like the likely scenario. He is just the most saleable asset this season.

We have sold Kuyt, Maxi will not fetch money. Skrtel, Agger are solid and replacing them now will not be liked by the fans. It just that looking at the squad it looks like downing and he are the only players who are saleable and fetch some cash. Among those 2 it is Carroll with more money in the bag. We will never know for sure and lets see where we stand at the end of the transfer window when we will know better.

[Cid]

He scored 9 goals last season.

And we're considering sending him on loan?  How could we replace such a contribution?

So he scored 9 goals and he had a handful of good games after embarrassing himself at Newcastle....do we ignore the many times he was god awful and basically left us playing like we had 10 men?

If he goes on loan he'll get a chance to show his ability and hopefully develop some of the potential we keep hearing he apparently has.  I'd rather he go to the bundesliga than serie a though..it's more suited to big target men.

[Mohammad Shahrul]

I hope he is not going to Milan... Yea I agree he is kind of limited player but aa... I think he loves the club and
willing to work hard for us... I will never forget his effort that brought us to last FA Cup final... The passion
and effort is there. But maybe Brendan really really want a passing football (tiki-taka huh?) where he saw
Carroll cant cope with his style of training... Carroll is still young and he might want him to gather all of the
experience first. Hey, who knows 12 months later when Carroll come back to Anfield after the Milan loan spell,
he has the skill and intelligence like Cassano, Robinho or Ibrahimovic? Dude, he is a forward player and sure
he will learn from the elder forwards there... What the fuck like anybody was thinking Brendan will just send
him there to do a shopping in any Italian boutique? No, Brendan is brilliant and intelligence... This might be
a mission to Carroll to bring the knowledge there to here, like a spy. Like a 007 agent. Hurm, quite boring here
in office. Feels like rawk.blog.com here is the best thing I could do while I just bought a cup of coffee.
A black coffee and its so delicious wwooouuh... Blogging here might cheer me up a bit as its fun. I just read
the news about Kagawa and did some Youtube on him. Ooouuuhhh... Must be so ejaculating if Brendan
can bring someone like Kagawa to Anfield and pairing him with Carroll / Suarez. I really hate United and
just cant wait our forwards to urinate them in the mouth 3-0 or 4-0 in front of Ferguson. Like a massacre.
Indiscriminate killing of all United's shits. Next season is sssooo exciting yeaaayyy!!!   
Okay, Im out to pay my electric bill first.
 
 
 

   

 

[Camarero25]

Must be so ejaculating if Brendan can bring someone like Kagawa to Anfield and pairing him with Carroll / Suarez. I really hate United and
just cant wait our forwards to urinate them in the mouth 3-0 or 4-0 in front of Ferguson. Like a massacre.
Indiscriminate killing of all United's shits. Next season is sssooo exciting yeaaayyy!!!   
Okay, Im out to pay my electric bill first.

Hahahahahahahaha

 

[Red Genius]

I hope he is not going to Milan... Yea I agree he is kind of limited player but aa... I think he loves the club and
willing to work hard for us... I will never forget his effort that brought us to last FA Cup final... The passion
and effort is there. But maybe Brendan really really want a passing football (tiki-taka huh?) where he saw
Carroll cant cope with his style of training... Carroll is still young and he might want him to gather all of the
experience first. Hey, who knows 12 months later when Carroll come back to Anfield after the Milan loan spell,
he has the skill and intelligence like Cassano, Robinho or Ibrahimovic? Dude, he is a forward player and sure
he will learn from the elder forwards there... What the fuck like anybody was thinking Brendan will just send
him there to do a shopping in any Italian boutique? No, Brendan is brilliant and intelligence... This might be
a mission to Carroll to bring the knowledge there to here, like a spy. Like a 007 agent. Hurm, quite boring here
in office. Feels like rawk.blog.com here is the best thing I could do while I just bought a cup of coffee.
A black coffee and its so delicious wwooouuh... Blogging here might cheer me up a bit as its fun. I just read
the news about Kagawa and did some Youtube on him. Ooouuuhhh... Must be so ejaculating if Brendan
can bring someone like Kagawa to Anfield and pairing him with Carroll / Suarez. I really hate United and
just cant wait our forwards to urinate them in the mouth 3-0 or 4-0 in front of Ferguson. Like a massacre.
Indiscriminate killing of all United's shits. Next season is sssooo exciting yeaaayyy!!!   
Okay, Im out to pay my electric bill first.
 
 
 

   

 

Put... the... drugs.... down.

[Discipline]

Welcome back MS!

[Camarero25]

duncan jenkins ‏@duncanjenkinsFC
@BrentV_RSA @_Mapeke @pauledwards1973 i would personally be suprised with a loan. A.C is very happy in l'pool so wont go quietly imho onion.


1h duncan jenkins ‏@duncanjenkinsFC
@_Mapeke @pauledwards1973 paul edwards is correct mates we both heard a week ago that B.R doesnt fancy carrol in his system, open to offers


2h duncan jenkins ‏@duncanjenkinsFC
@AlexDavis90 its got ‪#legs‬ mates i heard the same over a week ago, @pauledwards1973 also heard it we spoke about it privately mates. ‪#fact‬


Don't know if twitter's allowed in here, but this lad is usually reliable.

[The 5th Benitle]

Another thing which confuses me is that people focus on Andy's improved attitude post-NUFC game but not his fitness. His body was totally different at the end of the season, he was lithe and much more mobile. Suspect the injury he had when he joined us took longer than expected to clear up, and also there were mutterings that his training picked up second half of the season.
 
 

[Lenin]

And we're considering sending him on loan?  How could we replace such a contribution?

So he scored 9 goals and he had a handful of good games after embarrassing himself at Newcastle....do we ignore the many times he was god awful and basically left us playing like we had 10 men?

If he goes on loan he'll get a chance to show his ability and hopefully develop some of the potential we keep hearing he apparently has.  I'd rather he go to the bundesliga than serie a though..it's more suited to big target men.

Yeah, but that doesnt change the fact that he scored 9 last season, not 4, as the poster I was responding to stated.

[robgomm]

I hope we get clarification on this. Carroll's confidence was so fragile last season, he was finally getting it boosted after a good finish to the season and a goal in the Euros, now there's a suggestion that he could end up on loan? I'm sure that'll make him feel great. Rodgers hasn't had one single training session with the lad yet, has he?

Carroll may not suit what Rodgers wants but given the evident talent that he has it would be a shame not to TRY it.

[Red Genius]

It's interesting having worked under a successful Mourinho regime that Brendan wouldn't see the potential in value with Andy. I recognise his brand of football is somewhat more mobile and patient than Mourinho's, however having had first hand experience of how a target man can be used successfully in the Premier League, it'd be surprising if Brendan didn't at least see the lad on the training field before making his mind up.

[Geezer08]

Can you comment on Andy's movement when our distribution as a team is simply woeful at times, his movement at Newcastle was fine so we need to judge Andy when he's actually playing in a decent team and being given decent ball.  Anybody who seen Carroll against the likes of Chelsea will understand that
 if Liverpool play expansive football then Andy is unstoppable (ask John Terry)

Let's give the lad a chance because going off the last couple of seasons most of our players have been poor

Then why don't we play expansive football, if Carroll was unstoppable we would win everything in sight.  I hate that description of him, because you make him sound like he is Messi, when is infact he is fairly easy stopped. Carroll is fairly average footballer, with an average touch and intelligence. And like someone said a few posts above this one, taking away his size, he is champiosnhip material at best.

[The 5th Benitle]

And like someone said a few posts above this one, taking away his size, he is champiosnhip material at best.

Yes but that someone could not have been more wrong.

[andyrol]

it would be stupid to send andy out on loan, i cant see any benefit for us in doing this. we would also need ANOTHER striker to be bought, we need one if carroll stays anyway, which is ANOTHER player who will need time to get used to the club. we could sell carroll but i doubt anyone would pay £35 million which we would need to stop the club looking stupid.  carroll seemed to reach some kind of epiphany last season after newcastle and his touch, passing, awareness and general fitness improved greatly. at the present time he looks to be full of confidence and happy at the club. what worries me a little is why would brendan rodgers knock this confidence, also i would be very worried if brendan only wanted players who can play one system, what happens if that 'system' isnt working?  it all could be shit-stirring from the press of course who after years of getting tips and 'insider info' from the club now get bugger all and are getting a bit upset by this so either make stories up or turn molehills into everests!