Topic: Aldo: Liverpool FC are in crisis and action is needed to stop the rot

[geoffstrong 1937-2013 RIP]

Nah there wouldn't and wouldn't want them to. I'm a miserable twat like that.

Still you'd think that on a Liverpool forum it may be a good idea to support the team, the manager and the players, especially during a period when it would clearly be beneficial to be united.

Sorry John going to have to take you back to our rest home, you are expecting good old standards of support from some people who would not recognise them!

[Harinder]

People will question the manager, the players, the owners, its going to happen regardless at times like these, it even happened in 08/09 when we were challeging for the title dont forget! Poor decisions have been made and people will ask question and debate them, that doesnt mean they dont support the team and kenny, you can question someone and still support them it doesnt have to be an either or.

I don't know how else to say this... isn't that just a polite way of saying we'll talk behind your back? 

Fan to Kenny/Players/Outside their institution "yeah yeah, Kenny ooh aah King Kenny, support to the max yeah yeah, YNWA, Red till I die. Come on you Reds"

Same Fan on forums/twitter/social media outlet flavour of month "Kenny's got it all wrong, we need to change, it's not right"

As subtle as it may be it's not really supportive

[rusty-la]

Harinder calls it right.   It's a thinly disguised dig, they normally are.

If you make sly dig you will get called on it. So why not just say what's really on your mind eh?

[west_london_red]

I don't know how else to say this... isn't that just a polite way of saying we'll talk behind your back? 

Fan to Kenny/Players/Outside their institution "yeah yeah, Kenny ooh aah King Kenny, support to the max yeah yeah, YNWA, Red till I die. Come on you Reds"

Same Fan on forums/twitter/social media outlet flavour of month "Kenny's got it all wrong, we need to change, it's not right"

As subtle as it may be it's not really supportive

So, since talking about football, or whats going on at the club is seen as some kind of high treasonous act, what exactly are we allowed to talk about now?

[rusty-la]

Whatevers on your mind.

Why don't you start now?

[west_london_red]

Harinder calls it right.   It's a thinly disguised dig, they normally are.

If you make sly dig you will get called on it. So why not just say what's really on your mind eh?

I have said whats on my mind on previous posts, and honestly im not sure, I do flip flop on the subject every time I think about it. The recent form concerns me a lot, but I dont want us to make the same mistake as we made with Rafa and get rid of a good manager after one year, as many have pointed out we cant keep doing that. I'm sure you'll say im just subtly saying I want Kenny out, and I'll hold my hands up and say I wasnt that in favour of Kenny coming in the first place.

[Bullan]

"There must be actions taken to stop the rot"

What actions are those then?

He must of course answer to the 12 yo keyboard warriors who know exactly what is wrong and how to fix it.

[Harinder]

So, since talking about football, or whats going on at the club is seen as some kind of high treasonous act, what exactly are we allowed to talk about now?

If you've gone from my post to the above then sincerely whatever is on your mind. I'm not anyone's keeper or po-lice mate.

[west_london_red]

If you've gone from my post to the above then sincerely whatever is on your mind. I'm not anyone's keeper or po-lice mate.

But thats what this place has turned into, any disussion is assumed to be an attack on the manager and hence people go on the attack.

[Bullan]

You know, shorten Kenny's leash, give him arbitrary, media-induced goals like "finish fourth", and turn up the heat on his tactics, team-selection and transfers.

Just like was done with Benitez.

That has already started , and there does not seem to be a day that goes by without an article or Op Ed somewhere slagging the great man off.
Pretty soon we'll have "Steven from Surbiton" somehow make his way into an article , with a quote and all, making the suggestion that perhaps its best for the King to leave.

From there on we all know the score ...

[rusty-la]

I have said whats on my mind on previous posts, and honestly im not sure, I do flip flop on the subject every time I think about it. The recent form concerns me a lot, but I dont want us to make the same mistake as we made with Rafa and get rid of a good manager after one year, as many have pointed out we cant keep doing that. I'm sure you'll say im just subtly saying I want Kenny out, and I'll hold my hands up and say I wasnt that in favour of Kenny coming in the first place.

That's very honest mate.  I wasn't sure about Kenny, only because I saw his debut in 77 and I saw the pressure he was under at the end.  I wouldn't wish that on him again.  But in our hour of need, after the poison of the Cowboys we all accepted him.

I stand behind him 100 per cent, I always will. if that makes me right or wrong only time will tell.   He's here now and I love the fella and I love having him as my teams manager.

[vivabobbygraham]

But thats what this place has turned into, any disussion is assumed to be an attack on the manager and hence people go on the attack.

It's not a debating chamber mate. We're not fucking students. There is no protocol (save good manners else a warning arrives unnanounced in yer messages.....) Depends which thread you go in regarding people going on the attack. I've read some good stuff over the last few days on both sides of the fence and I've read some shite, sat back and read it, absolutely fucking awful. The majority of that shite come from posters who have little or no inkling of what this club is about and tend to regurgitate garbage they have been fed by the media. All soundbites and one line headlines...'embarrassed to be a Liverpool fan' being the latest.

Then the tactical geniuses come on using some blurt from a blog, a fucking blog, to tell us where Kenny is going wrong tactically, and they jump on that as evidence. That fucking thread should have been bombed out tbf but the mods are obviously attempting to give the stato's and twato's somewhere to vent their spleen.

One man's 'going on the attack' is another's 'defending my team'' You pay's yer money... 

[geoffstrong 1937-2013 RIP]

It's not a debating chamber mate. We're not fucking students. There is no protocol (save good manners else a warning arrives unnanounced in yer messages.....) Depends which thread you go in regarding people going on the attack. I've read some good stuff over the last few days on both sides of the fence and I've read some shite, sat back and read it, absolutely fucking awful. The majority of that shite come from posters who have little or no inkling of what this club is about and tend to regurgitate garbage they have been fed by the media. All soundbites and one line headlines...'embarrassed to be a Liverpool fan' being the latest.

Then the tactical geniuses come on using some blurt from a blog, a fucking blog, to tell us where Kenny is going wrong tactically, and they jump on that as evidence. That fucking thread should have been bombed out tbf but the mods are obviously attempting to give the stato's and twato's somewhere to vent their spleen.

One man's 'going on the attack' is another's 'defending my team'' You pay's yer money... 

    thank you VBG

[tommyLFC]

That's very honest mate.  I wasn't sure about Kenny, only because I saw his debut in 77 and I saw the pressure he was under at the end.  I wouldn't wish that on him again.  But in our hour of need, after the poison of the Cowboys we all accepted him.

I stand behind him 100 per cent, I always will. if that makes me right or wrong only time will tell.   He's here now and I love the fella and I love having him as my teams manager.

Can I just ask, if Kenny does leaves in the summer (by mutual consent or otherwise), what will your reaction be towards the owners?

I sincerely hope people do not start turning on them.

[bleedsred1978]

It seems if you have a problem with something Kenny is doing, say players being left out or whatever, you are a no nothing gimp compared to a club legend who,s seen it all.

If you attempt to justify any statement with stats you are a stato gimp who knows nothing compared to a club. Legend who,s seen it ll.

Is there any way to state that you have a concern about how things are going without, you know, being accused of being a no nothing gimp compared to a club legend who,s seen it all?

I back Kenny btw but have a bit of an issue with the shouting down of posters who have the audacity to voice their concerns.

[vivabobbygraham]

Can I just ask, if Kenny does leaves in the summer (by mutual consent or otherwise), what will your reaction be towards the owners?

I sincerely hope people do not start turning on them.

I sincerely hope they do, Tommy lad as they will have earned it for being so short sighted and knee jerk. Kenny leaving of his own accord? This early? Nah, mate. Maybe just wishful thinking, eh?

[Bullan]

It's not a debating chamber mate. We're not fucking students. There is no protocol. Depends which thread you go in regarding people going on the attack. I've read some good stuff over the last few days on both sides of the fence and I've read some shite, sat back and read it, absolutely fucking awful. The majority of that shite come from posters who have little or no inkling of what this club is about and tend to regurgitate garbage they have been fed by the media. All soundbites and one line headlines...'embarrassed to be a Liverpool fan' being the latest.

Then the tactical geniuses come on using some blurt from a blog, a fucking blog, to tell us where Kenny is going wrong tactically, and they jump on that as evidence. That fucking thread should have been bombed out tbf but the mods are obviously attempting to give the stato's and twato's somewhere to vent their spleen.

One man's 'going on the attack' is another's 'defending my team'' You pay's yer money... 

Bobby.

It was a quote from Aldo about being embarressed which people have picked up on.
And I don't understand the vitriol being aimed at people interested in tactics , sure some of the posts are not to my liking , but it is an internet forum and there is no point getting wound up by every dweeb you don't agree with mate.

I've never seen the club win a league title , and from watching old games on the telly / dvds I could never decide if we played the most advanced version of total football the world has ever seen , or it was just that we were that good we could do what we liked when we liked.

Under Ged , we had a clear tactical plan that was for all to see, and you can't say Rafa wasn't both a statto and a tactics "twato" , and he won us a game or two.

Perhaps thats what the "younger" generation has grown up watching and gotten used to who knows.
It is quite common for people to seek explanation in times of trouble , its a natural reaction to things we dont understand.

Some people turn to God , others Derek Acorah , football fans , well we are a strange bunch and not all of us have experienced the glory , nor do all of us know how to face adversity , but for frogs sake , let's not let that drive a wedge between us.

[tommyLFC]

I sincerely hope they do, Tommy lad as they will have earned it for being so short sighted and knee jerk. Kenny leaving of his own accord? This early? Nah, mate. Maybe just wishful thinking, eh?

I hope we don't see huge divides appear again between the terraces and boardroom should it happen.

[El_Pistolero]

... others Derek Acorah ...

Derek in, Sam as assistant manager.

Think you've found the solution to our problems.

[Andy @ Allerton]

But thats what this place has turned into, any disussion is assumed to be an attack on the manager and hence people go on the attack.

So what's wrong with that? If you have a legitimate concern and have a legitimate solution that you can word fully and coherently and that makes sense then you haven't got a problem have you?

Off you go then.

[Andy @ Allerton]

He must of course answer to the 12 yo keyboard warriors who know exactly what is wrong and how to fix it.

Do you think I'm 12 years old?

[vivabobbygraham]

It seems if you have a problem with something Kenny is doing, say players being left out or whatever, you are a no nothing gimp compared to a club legend who,s seen it all.

If you attempt to justify any statement with stats you are a stato gimp who knows nothing compared to a club. Legend who,s seen it ll.

Is there any way to state that you have a concern about how things are going without, you know, being accused of being a no nothing gimp compared to a club legend who,s seen it all?

I back Kenny btw but have a bit of an issue with the shouting down of posters who have the audacity to voice their concerns.

Depends on your pov though. I have an issue with the shouting down of posters who have the audacity to defend the club. Too many posters resort to the easy out with taunts of 'superfan', 'rose tinted glasses'  anti scouse stuff from some of the oot's. It works both ways, no point whingeing about it. Bound to happen when the temperature is high and a big game coming up against the bluenoses. You wanna hear real 'shouting down of fans?' Have a listen down Wembley Way next week.

[Bullan]

Do you think I'm 12 years old?

I wasn't referring to you Andy , ffs I was being sarcastic (although there have been times in some manc threads you have a pretty good impression of a 12 yo

[Andy @ Allerton]

I wasn't referring to you Andy , ffs I was being sarcastic (although there have been times in some manc threads you have a pretty good impression of a 12 yo

Some?

I'm disappointed

[Bullan]

Some?

I'm disappointed

You can't win them all Andy mate

[Bullan]

Depends on your pov though. I have an issue with the shouting down of posters who have the audacity to defend the club. Too many posters resort to the easy out with taunts of 'superfan', 'rose tinted glasses'  anti scouse stuff from some of the oot's. It works both ways, no point whingeing about it. Bound to happen when the temperature is high and a big game coming up against the bluenoses. You wanna hear real 'shouting down of fans?' Have a listen down Wembley Way next week.

I'd like to state for the record that I detest that effing "superfan" bollocks.
But we shouldn't respond to petty name calling by doing it ourselves

And I will be down Wembley way , buy you a pint?

[bleedsred1978]

Depends on your pov though. I have an issue with the shouting down of posters who have the audacity to defend the club. Too many posters resort to the easy out with taunts of 'superfan', 'rose tinted glasses'  anti scouse stuff from some of the oot's. It works both ways, no point whingeing about it. Bound to happen when the temperature is high and a big game coming up against the bluenoses. You wanna hear real 'shouting down of fans?' Have a listen down Wembley Way next week.

Thats fair enough like but why when the club is at a low ebb would certain people on here try and close ranks against fellow supporters with alternative views.
I thought we learned last time around that division is the road to ruin. I'm all for educate and enlighten people who are talking shite about Kenny. Dropping to their level and just calling them out of town no nothing c*nts is achieving nothing more than making genuine fans not from the Liverpool area feel less connected to the club.

I'm an oot but I get it. Kenny should be respected. He should have our full backing.

He is not the rev Jim jones though FFS.

[Bullan]

Thats fair enough like but why when the club is at a low ebb would certain people on here try and close ranks against fellow supporters with alternative views.
I thought we learned last time around that division is the road to ruin. I'm all for educate and enlighten people who are talking shite about Kenny. Dropping to their level and just calling them out of town no nothing c*nts is achieving nothing more than making genuine fans not from the Liverpool area feel less connected to the club.

I'm an oot but I get it. Kenny should be respected. He should have our full backing.

He is not the rev Jim jones though FFS.

No but he is the King.

If your not from Liverpool, and not someone who was around when the club and the city went through some of its darkest days , you can't possibly understand how much Kenny and the fans that were there , and know went through.

It transcends footy and Andy fucking Carroll and it's actually not that hard to understand why those fans are closing ranks around him.
I find the things being said about Kenny on here ranging from bemusing to downright repulsive , so you can imagine what those that lived through those times feel when he is being "attacked".

[vivabobbygraham]

Bobby.

It was a quote from Aldo about being embarressed which people have picked up on.
And I don't understand the vitriol being aimed at people interested in tactics , sure some of the posts are not to my liking , but it is an internet forum and there is no point getting wound up by every dweeb you don't agree with mate.

I've never seen the club win a league title , and from watching old games on the telly / dvds I could never decide if we played the most advanced version of total football the world has ever seen , or it was just that we were that good we could do what we liked when we liked.

Under Ged , we had a clear tactical plan that was for all to see, and you can't say Rafa wasn't both a statto and a tactics "twato" , and he won us a game or two.

Perhaps thats what the "younger" generation has grown up watching and gotten used to who knows.
It is quite common for people to seek explanation in times of trouble , its a natural reaction to things we dont understand.

Some people turn to God , others Derek Acorah , football fans , well we are a strange bunch and not all of us have experienced the glory , nor do all of us know how to face adversity , but for frogs sake , let's not let that drive a wedge between us.

Not wound up at all Bullan me auld mate. Simply replying to someone who churns out the same tired old argument about being shouted down, blah, bvlah, blah, it's pathetic mate, it really is.

Tactics? Never been a great believer in them myself. Teams can get bogged down with tactics. What did Shanks say? Some posters keep banging on about the games changed, got to move with the times, etc. For me, football is played at it's best when a 'team' is on the same wavelength, who know individually and collectively,  instinctively where a player is going to be, how he'll recieve a pass, how he'll play one. Comfortable on the ball and running off it. The great Liverpool teams had that. It had little to do with tactics as opposed to confidence, mindset, never beaten, go from 1 to 90 minutes, relentlessly to achieve victory.

This mentality does not come overnight. Kenny has picked players who, he believes, have that mentality. If he has made mistakes in that area, he will rectify them end of the season. What the fuck can he do about it now?

Mate, it's all very well calling for calm and harmony. That should not stop those posters passionate and fiercely loyal to Kenny and the cause from banging on about loyalty and getting behind the team and the manager, for that is what set us apart as fans in the past, There are still a few new to that cause. Maybe a few of the auld arses can start them off in the right manner on the right path. I learned my trade as a Liverpool fan listening to kopites in the boozers, on the road, in the ground. Didn't do me any harm.

Cue: 'superfan' 'take off yer rose tinted glasses' blah, blah, blah. It's all swings and roundabouts, Bullan, mate.

[bleedsred1978]

No but he is the King.

If your not from Liverpool, and not someone who was around when the club and the city went through some of its darkest days , you can't possibly understand how much Kenny and the fans that were there , and know went through.

It transcends footy and Andy fucking Carroll and it's actually not that hard to understand why those fans are closing ranks around him.
I find the things being said about Kenny on here ranging from bemusing to downright repulsive , so you can imagine what those that lived through those times feel when he is being "attacked".

No problem with that at all mate. Any fucker attacking Kenny deserves anything coming to him. I'm talking about mild criticism ending up with over the top statements about not being loyal etc etc.

There has to be room for debate, it's healthy, nobody is saying they have all the answers but that surely shouldn't mean we can't raise the questions, if you get what I'm saying?

[Vulmea]

Thats fair enough like but why when the club is at a low ebb would certain people on here try and close ranks against fellow supporters with alternative views.
I thought we learned last time around that division is the road to ruin. I'm all for educate and enlighten people who are talking shite about Kenny. Dropping to their level and just calling them out of town no nothing c*nts is achieving nothing more than making genuine fans not from the Liverpool area feel less connected to the club.

I'm an oot but I get it. Kenny should be respected. He should have our full backing.

He is not the rev Jim jones though FFS.

er Jones was a psycho mass murdering cult leader who topped a load of kids wasn't he? not the best call you've ever made.

i dont even think its the questioning that is the problem its the lack of respect with which its done.

[Bullan]

This mentality does not come overnight. Kenny has picked players who, he believes, have that mentality. If he has made mistakes in that area, he will rectify them end of the season. What the fuck can he do about it now?

Mate, it's all very well calling for calm and harmony. That should not stop those posters passionate and fiercely loyal to Kenny and the cause from banging on about loyalty and getting behind the team and the manager, for that is what set us apart as fans in the past, There are still a few new to that cause. Maybe a few of the auld arses can start them off in the right manner on the right path. I learned my trade as a Liverpool fan listening to kopites in the boozers, on the road, in the ground. Didn't do me any harm.

Cue: 'superfan' 'take off yer rose tinted glasses' blah, blah, blah. It's all swings and roundabouts, Bullan, mate.

Your right mate , and it is the me first and the gimmie gimmies at play here wanting everything here and now.
I've watched a lot of football in my life , some good , some outright divine , and also on the other end of the spectrum and I admit I am interested in tactics , but your right football should be played like you say , irrespective of that being a result of tactics or not.

I've only once in my 20 + years supporting Liverpool wanted a manager out, and that was Hodgson , never liked him , and his defeatist disrespectful attitude towards the club and the fans.

I didnt want Rafa to go , and I don't want Kenny to go , well not unless the job becomes too much for him, and I understand why you and others are so vehemently defending him , but guess what mate , if there is one man who can point at the history books and medals to shut up the internet warriors its him.

As for those using terms like superfan , ask yourself this , where were they in 77 , or 84 , or even in 2001?

[bleedsred1978]

er Jones was a psycho mass murdering cult leader who topped a load of kids wasn't he? not the best call you've ever made.

i dont even think its the questioning that is the problem its the lack of respect with which its done.

 Was more going for the disciple slant on things rather than a slight on Kenny but I take your point

I agree as well though vulmea. There's plenty of clowns on here looking to get a reaction and making broad sweeping statements about replacing managers and the like. That's not on. I agree with that.

There is however a blurring of the lines lately where no hint of criticism is even countenanced.

Anyway, I'm not the flag bearer for polite criticism of kenny but it is getting a bit of a joke, on all sides I guess. That old familiar tension seems to be back on here unfortunately.

[Bullan]

No problem with that at all mate. Any fucker attacking Kenny deserves anything coming to him. I'm talking about mild criticism ending up with over the top statements about not being loyal etc etc.

There has to be room for debate, it's healthy, nobody is saying they have all the answers but that surely shouldn't mean we can't raise the questions, if you get what I'm saying?

OF course we need a debate , but statements like "kenny has to go, he's out of touch and doesn't know what he's doing" or similarly enlightening kneejerkisms will only provoke fierce reaction.

Look what happened to us during our "internet terrorism" days , divided , baying for blood of our own , and some still walking around with the virtual branding tool , happy to set their sights on whoever they feel didn't do or say what "they should have" whatever the frell that means.

The fact is , there are those who have grown up with certain values associated with this club, and those who haven't and if you can''t understand why it gets their backs up , when those values are pissed on, then perhaps you should take some time and try to find out.

[vivabobbygraham]

Your right mate , and it is the me first and the gimmie gimmies at play here wanting everything here and now.
I've watched a lot of football in my life , some good , some outright divine , and also on the other end of the spectrum and I admit I am interested in tactics , but your right football should be played like you say , irrespective of that being a result of tactics or not.

I've only once in my 20 + years supporting Liverpool wanted a manager out, and that was Hodgson , never liked him , and his defeatist disrespectful attitude towards the club and the fans.

I didnt want Rafa to go , and I don't want Kenny to go , well not unless the job becomes too much for him, and I understand why you and others are so vehemently defending him , but guess what mate , if there is one man who can point at the history books and medals to shut up the internet warriors its him.

As for those using terms like superfan , ask yourself this , where were they in 77 , or 84 , or even in 2001?

Probly not born mate some of them, and yeah, I mean 2001, they can just about type their fuckin' name some of them mate. Your right, Kenny can look after himself and will be the first to know if it's not working. But he hasn't got anywhere near that yet. He'll be thinking he can turn this around and I'm absolutely certain he will. Been there, done that, got the t shirt has the great man. They gave him a 3 year contract for a fucking reason mate, cos that's how long the job will take to get us back up there.For all the doom and fucking gloom merchants,  remember Rafa's treatment and the fucking monstrosity of a man we ended up with. Doesn't bear thinking about mate...#shiver#

[bleedsred1978]

OF course we need a debate , but statements like "kenny has to go, he's out of touch and doesn't know what he's doing" or similarly enlightening kneejerkisms will only provoke fierce reaction.

Look what happened to us during our "internet terrorism" days , divided , baying for blood of our own , and some still walking around with the virtual branding tool , happy to set their sights on whoever they feel didn't do or say what "they should have" whatever the frell that means.

The fact is , there are those who have grown up with certain values associated with this club, and those who haven't and if you can''t understand why it gets their backs up , when those values are pissed on, then perhaps you should take some time and try to find out.

Look mate with respect thats very condescending.

 I mean fucking hell, as much as the football thats the whole connection fans from all over the world have with the club.

If you don't hold those values dear then your not a fan of this club at all.

[Road End Sikh]

When it comes down to it, we can go on about having the right to give opinions and who is right or wrong, but the ONLY thing we can actually DO, is turn up and SUPPORT the club, the team and the manager and try and stop the rot.
There are plenty of people desperate for us to turn on Kenny and the Club, so we have to stand together!

[vivabobbygraham]

When it comes down to it, we can go on about having the right to give opinions and who is right or wrong, but the ONLY thing we can actually DO, is turn up and SUPPORT the club, the team and the manager and try and stop the rot.
There are plenty of people desperate for us to turn on Kenny and the Club, so we have to stand together!

Correctamundo mate 

[geoffstrong 1937-2013 RIP]

Look mate with respect thats very condescending.

 I mean fucking hell, as much as the football thats the whole connection fans from all over the world have with the club.

If you don't hold those values dear then your not a fan of this club at all.

dont think it is condescending at all,

 it is a fact different generations have different values about everything so why not how you should support  this club.

[Bullan]

Look mate with respect thats very condescending.

 I mean fucking hell, as much as the football thats the whole connection fans from all over the world have with the club.

If you don't hold those values dear then your not a fan of this club at all.

I did not mean to come across like that, I was simply making a point and I am sorry you took it that way.
But your statement is equally as bad as someone shouting you down for having an opinion.

Supporters or fans , whatever you want to call them , they come in many forms and it is borderline elitist to say that just because some kid in south east asia doesnt understand or know the values the so called "auld arses" grew up with , he doesnt deserve to be a fan is downright stupid.

I think I am pretty clued up about the history of the city and the club , but I've never been called a hub cap thief , or murderer, I've never had to go through life with anything worse than a custom title on an internet forum that says I'm the only gay eskimo.
So I can't possibly understand the bond that exists between Kenny and the fans , but I understand people , and I'm an old and fat gay eskimo now , and I've learnt to understand that you don't piss on things that arent yours.