Topic: Carroll - A sensible discussion.

[The Kings Army]

Any form of cheating is a red card in my eyes, our players or the opposition. Perch looked a right fool for what he did and deserves a ban for that, I just dnt like seeing it from our players. Just bugs me that he had the goal right there in front of him and chose not to take it. And I have to agree with you that we seem to have a few divers at the club, something that should not be tolerated.

me too mate. don't know what was going through his head, other than he didn't think he was going to score or didn't want to take it on his right foot and thought he could play for the penalty. that, i feel, is the only logical explanation. I'm not buying any of the he lost his footing and fell over bollocks, it was as blatant a dive as Vieira or Bale's against us, but desperate people make desperate decisions and he definitely looked as much of an idiot with the dive than he would have done by rounding Krul and putting it wide.it's not that he's shite, he's just devoid of confidence.

[KaiNo7]

I honestly believe if we had bought him cheap he would of been a beast of a player for us, he was and never will be worth £35 million and that burden was too much for him. If he moves on I'm sure he will do well

[Blade]

Was that Jeffers fault a lack of faith in him by Arsenal fans or was it simply that young players careers are seldom linear and that huge spikes are often followed by years of little progression. Carroll may come again but can we afford to wait and hope that he isn't a very common one year wonder.

Personally, I can wait. I have seen what the knee-jerk decisions can do to this great club, so I'd rather play it safe.

[shelovesyou]

Purely based on gut feeling but its not gonna work is it ?
I know the lads young, the price tag, the inconsistencies in appearances but he just isnt going to work out I reckon,
would not be surprised if he leaves in the summer at all.
He dont look arsed half the time, that or he's overaud (sp) by the whole situation.

[rafathegaffa83]

Another big letdown is that we've got two boss songs for him that we can't use.

Why not sing them to give him some support that he badly needs?

[Blade]

Why not sing them to give him some support that he badly needs?

What a strange idea.

[And Could He Play]

What a strange idea.

?

[The Grinch]

Personally, I can wait. I have seen what the knee-jerk decisions can do to this great club, so I'd rather play it safe.

A twenty goal a season Striker would of had us challenging for the title at Xmas.You look what the goals Demba Ba scored for Newcastle in the first half of the season did for their confidence.

We are a Striker short anyway so a new Striker doesn't have to mean the end of Carroll a proven goalscorer might give him the breathing space to develop his game.

[Redcap]

He's not got the mentality to be our main striker. However, his past performances for Newcastle if not for us have shown that he is capable of better than he's shown for us. There is ability there, and amongst the strikers of his type, he may yet one day be a very solid option, even if he never grows to be among the best. There's a role for him in the squad, if he's willing to accept it, clear his mind during the break and come back as the analog of Crouch for Rafa after Torres arrived. I think with the pressure of the price tag well and truly off his shoulders, and a new star striker more suited to our system, he will be a different player next season.

[BazC]

Personally, I can wait. I have seen what the knee-jerk decisions can do to this great club, so I'd rather play it safe.

That's one long 15 month knee jerk...

[shelovesyou]

Plus im still not entirely convinced he REALLY wanted to come here.

[soberphobia]

The bottom line for me is, no-one from the people suggesting that we should sell Carroll this summer can guarantee that he won't turn out to be a very good player. He is simply too young for that kind of judgement, and has shown signs of improvement in recent months.

Agree with this. He is reportedly on a decent wedge but not massive wages. I think the sensible thing to do is buy another striker and just leave Andy in the mix. He offers something different and may yet improve. We will take a massive loss if we sell him and the only upside would be to whoever buys him. If we get a more clinical striker perhaps not in the same mould as Andy it would mean with Luis Andy and a new striker we have a more balanced mix of strikers and a potential upside to us and not someone else.

[Blade]

A twenty goal a season Striker would of had us challenging for the title at Xmas.You look what the goals Demba Ba scored for Newcastle in the first half of the season did for their confidence.

We are a Striker short anyway so a new Striker doesn't have to mean the end of Carroll a proven goalscorer might give him the breathing space to develop his game.

I have already suggested a radical idea in this thread: Sign Drogba on Bosman in the summer, on a 2-year deal with reasonable wages. We could use him as our starting target man in the league next season, and start Carroll in the Carling Cup, the FA Cup and the Europa League. Review the situation at the end of next season.

[And Could He Play]

sign drogba, really?

[Diomedieocre]

We are a Striker short anyway so a new Striker doesn't have to mean the end of Carroll a proven goalscorer might give him the breathing space to develop his game.

Defo...i think Dirk will go and a replacement will be sought...and maybe another.

Plus im still not entirely convinced he REALLY wanted to come here.

If i was playing for us and the board wanted rid of me i`d be fucking devastated and would have motivation problems wherever i went, without doubt....Stating that, i think thats just one of many problems with Carroll at the moment...it`s a case what can go wrong will go wrong at the moment....if we get to this point next season and the same problems still persist im sure he`ll be off regardless of price.

[harleydanger]

The point you're making is correct in the comparison of Torres for Chelsea and Andy Carroll for Liverpool, however, i think the comparison should be Torres for Liverpool vs Andy Carroll for Newcastle.

Both players seem to have psychological issues. Torres has gone from being on of the best strikers in the world, to a laughing stock in 18 months, you don't just "loose" talent. I think Torres back in a Liverpool shirt would be a completely different player, just as Andy Carroll would be back at Newcastle. People will criticize Carroll, but bottom line he was good for Newcastle because of several different reasons, one of which, he gave a shit about Newcastle. I think it'd be good for Andy to make it here, but if he left, i think everyone would benefit. As for a Torres return. I'd be delighted with that, but i get the feeling 9/10 wouldn't be.

There's more to why Torres was a world beater here, and it's the same reason Owen was. He wears a number 8 on his back.

[HariLFC]

There's more to why Torres was a world beater here, and it's the same reason Owen was. He wears a number 8 on his back.

There was also a rather useful number 14.

[Blade]

sign drogba, really?

Yes, really. Still a very good target man, and would score shitloads on a team creating as many chances as we did in the first half of the season. Would be a good mentor and training partner for Andy, but will not block his development in the long term, since he is already 34.

[Matt8Pie]

Yes, really. Still a very good target man, and would score shitloads on a team creating as many chances as we did in the first half of the season. Would be a good mentor and training partner for Andy, but will not block his development in the long term, since he is already 34.

Would be the stupidest idea since signing Andy Carroll. Funny how you disregard Huntelaar for his age but push across the idea of signing someone older.

[lfc_bhoy]

There's more to why Torres was a world beater here, and it's the same reason Owen was. He wears a number 8 on his back.

Quite right.  Fact is Gerrard can still produce but it's obvious he'll need some support as the years go on.  The key for Carroll and really the team in general is how we choose to replace Stevie.

[Blade]

Would be the stupidest idea since signing Andy Carroll. Funny how you disregard Huntelaar for his age but push across the idea of signing someone older.

Drogba has always been, and still is a better striker than Huntelaar. Oh, and since you have failed to read my 2-line post to the very end, I will repost it.

Yes, really. Still a very good target man, and would score shitloads on a team creating as many chances as we did in the first half of the season. Would be a good mentor and training partner for Andy, but will not block his development in the long term, since he is already 34.

You get it? I am not looking for Andy's replacement.

[Moldyman]

Yes, really. Still a very good target man, and would score shitloads on a team creating as many chances as we did in the first half of the season. Would be a good mentor and training partner for Andy, but will not block his development in the long term, since he is already 34.

Excuse me, I must now go and kill myself.

[HariLFC]

People keep on talking about how Gerrard can make or break forwards and I agree, but Lucas' injury has forced him deep, WHY didn't we replace him/get in cover for him (above spearing's level) in January, i'll never know.

[kcbworth]

I have already suggested a radical idea in this thread: Sign Drogba on Bosman in the summer, on a 2-year deal with reasonable wages. We could use him as our starting target man in the league next season, and start Carroll in the Carling Cup, the FA Cup and the Europa League. Review the situation at the end of next season.

I get what you're saying, but there is a short list of people that I wouldn't want anywhere near the club, and Drogba is one of them:

* Alex Ferguson
* Jose Mourinho
* Rooney
* Drogba
* Fake Ronaldo

Just something about every one of these that just doesnt sit right with me.

I think I'd be fine with pretty much anyone else.

** edit: Actually need to add John Terry and Ryan Giggs here also.

[1021]

Plus im still not entirely convinced he REALLY wanted to come here.

He didn't. He said as much. I don't blame him, all Geordies love their Club, but he has to be professional.

[HariLFC]

I get what you're saying, but there is a short list of people that I wouldn't want anywhere near the club, and Drogba is one of them:

* Alex Ferguson
* Jose Mourinho
* Rooney
* Drogba
* Fake Ronaldo

Just something about every one of these that just doesnt sit right with me.

I think I'd be fine with pretty much anyone else.

As much as I despise 'fake Ronaldo' he'll go down as one of the best players of all time.

[Blade]

I get what you're saying, but there is a short list of people that I wouldn't want anywhere near the club, and Drogba is one of them:

* Alex Ferguson
* Jose Mourinho
* Rooney
* Drogba
* Fake Ronaldo

Just something about every one of these that just doesnt sit right with me.

I think I'd be fine with pretty much anyone else.

Drogba is a c*nt on the pitch, but a remarkable human being in the real life. As a person, he has nothing in common with the other 4 you have mentioned there.

[And Could He Play]

Drogba is a c*nt on the pitch, but a remarkable human being in the real life. As a person, he has nothing in common with the other 4 you have mentioned there.

is he your brother?

[Blade]

is he your brother?

Nope, he is a UN Goodwill Ambassador, and a person that has donated millions for charity in Africa. Most notably, he has donated his entire £3 million signing on fee from his sponsorship deal with Pepsi for the purpose of building a hospital in his home town.

[And Could He Play]

Nope, he is a UN Goodwill Ambassador, and a person that has donated millions for charity in Africa. Most notably, he has donated his entire £3 million signing on fee from his sponsorship deal with Pepsi for the purpose of building a hospital in his home town.

he should spend some of the money on acting lessons, or diving lessons, he'd never get in platoon.

[Blade]

he should spend some of the money on acting lessons, or diving lessons, he'd never get in platoon.

Never mind. When some of our fans can't stand our own young striker, why should I expect for them to accept the idea of signing a rival player.

[And Could He Play]

Never mind. When some of our fans can't stand our own young striker, why should I expect for them to accept the idea of signing a rival player.

you want me to accept the idea of buying the biggest c*nt in the premier league?, fuck it lets buy john terry as well.

[geoffstrong]

you want me to accept the idea of buying the biggest c*nt in the premier league?, fuck it lets buy john terry as well.

were buying Rooney when did this happen?

[1021]

were buying Rooney when did this happen?

Cattermole outdoes even Rooney in them stakes.

[kcbworth]

y
he is a UN Goodwill Ambassador, and a person that has donated millions for charity in Africa.

You have made me question my views a bit, but it would take a major mind shift for me to think he'd be right for the club.

Couldn't help but remember a story from my past that always makes me angry, that is very relevant here...

When I was at uni there was total wanker. Big, rough, a bully, treated people around him like absolute shit. However, he gave to charity. And made sure everyone knew about it. And the thing is, girls used to say "he's just misunderstood, he's such a nice guy, he gives to charity you know". FFS makes me angry still thinking about it. This guy was a bona fide c*nt, but the fact he pulled the wool over peoples eyes like that just gave me the absolute shits. Since then I really struggle to trust anyone who gives to charity, well at least if they use that as a card to demonstrate what a good person they are, as for me it doesn't really prove anything.

So unfortunately your insistence is somewhat lost as me, but that's not your fault.

[Blade]

you want me to accept the idea of buying the biggest c*nt in the premier league?, fuck it lets buy john terry as well.

The funny thing is, if you ask the fans of the other 19 Premier league clubs, they would probably give that title to a certain LFC player. Of course, the entire hysteria was media driven, but the damage has already been done. Not to mention that pairing Suarez with one of the most popular African athletes would improve the public and the marketing profile of our star player. As I have said, never mind.

[kcbworth]

Cattermole outdoes even Rooney in them stakes.

See I could handle Cattermole, not sure why.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Too many easy answers here.

Why is it that Carroll has often looked the most threatening player even when Suarez is on the pitch?
How much better is Suarez's ratio of starts to goals scored?
Why is it that Carroll's performance is actually (gradually) getting better and Suarez is getting worse?
Which of our players are we actually getting the most of from our coaching setup? Rafa's Pepe? NUFC's Enrique? Villa's Downing? Blackpool's Adam? Uruguay's Coates (amazing goal aside)? Uruguay's Suarez? NUFC's Carroll?
Why is Carroll constantly having to tell the midfield how he wants the ball delivering?
How many gilt-edged chances are we creating whether Carroll is in the box or not?
If the movement for Carroll really is so simple as just bursting his lungs to get in the box to the near post why isn't this being coached?
If the midfield aren't shielding our back four, shooting on goal or breaking onto Carroll's flick-ons and headers what exactly are they doing?
Where is the evidence of leadership on the pitch that is helping his game?


Sure he has his part to play in what's gone wrong but the issues run much deeper than his first touch or him 'not putting the effort in'.

Lucas / Hodgson / Adam / Downing / Henderson / Carroll have all taken their turns as being the scapegoat, some more successfully than others.

I think its obvious that he never wanted to come from his boyhood club but was sold so Mike Ashley could cash in. He didn't ask to have the British transfer fee dangling over his head. He didn't ask to be put in a team which had no idea how to play him. He never claimed that he was the finished article as opposed to a young lad learning his trade as a striker. It was a massive gamble signing him for those reasons but he is not responsible for those issues not being addressed. Everyone who is crowing now about how right they were all along about how s*** he is should pause to think who shares the responsibility and therefore the blame for this fiasco because it certainly isn't all on his shoulders.

If we were going to pay that much money to gamble on him making the step up every single factor we had any control over should have been maximised to ensure his best chance of success. So, why weren't they? Or is that too uncomfortable a question?

[Lucas DuoFlush]

Drogbas not the antichrist. Dick on the pitch, great bloke off it. If he'd do the job for us, I'd be all for him coming here for a season or two.

[geoffstrong]

Cartermole would win some tackles for us, while he was on the pitch.