Topic: full time Liverpool 1-2 Wigan Athletic

[stockdam]

At the start of the season I watched a team that looked like it would finish mid-table and looked in a mess. That team was Arsenal and now they are flying. They didn't have £100M to spend but have turned their season around.

We've done the opposite. We were playing good football. Last year we had Lucas, Meireles and Suarez playing great football together. Now we look like we've lost our way.

So where do we go from here? The owners may feel that our football is good and that we have the basis of a good team. However they also may feel that a lot of money has been spent and none of the new players have made enough of an impact. So do they wait for a while to see if the current crop will come good. I doubt if they will try to buy their way to success but will be looking for a winning attitude.

Kenny did have the players moving the ball about but that seems to be disappearing. He needs to quickly find a winning team........Arsenal don't have a better squad but they are playing well.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

No, and I've said so on here.

But the manager is Kenny Dalglish. Yes, KENNY DALGLISH. He'll get it right. He should have bollocked the c*nts though rather than defend them again.

I know his name, I know his fame. Unfortunately it's his game I'm concerned about, I'm not calling for his head, just for some changes on the pitch, drop the slackers, give the fringe players a go.

[The 5th Benitle]

Yep....a threat in every sense our Dibs lol...

At least as bit of passion

You've called him Dibs twice now. I thought it was a typo the first time. WTF?

[DutchRed]

Progress, how do you measure progress? by domestic cup success or league success? for me it is the latter

Both. League is important, but some people are ridiculously obsessed with winning the 4th place cup. We all prefer the CL but we're not gonna win that thing anyway if no miracles occur.

[Hazell]

hahaha once again you rise to it, the valiant crusader for Rafapool.

If you'd like to know, really that last line should be aimed at many more in this abomination of a thread than I. Why are we dsisscusing Benitez answer me that?

Like him, I loved him, I just didn't idolise him, like yourself. 

Didn't you mention Rafapool in the Gerrard thread after the derby? Seems a bit hypocritical, amongst many other things.

[Libertine]

so you're saying that in the 10 years kenny was out of management he didn't watch any football and was completely unaware of any players other than wwhat was outside england?

ask anyone who knows him or who's spent a good deal of time with him and one of the first things they say is that he watches a ridiculous amount of football.

btw I don't want him out this season, but I do think he has to reexamine his transfer policy. this whole buying british players with pl experience thing isn't working.

i'm just trying to make sense of what doesn't make sense.

i'd hazard a guess there's a difference between watching football as a hobby and watching it as scout/DoF/employed manager. Cause if he did have an in depth knowledge of emerging European talent, then why focus so much of british/premier league talent?

i don't want Kenny out either, I think he brings a huge amount of ability and experience and presence to the role. We've seen recruitment may not be his strong point (at least in 2012). You would hope having a DoF would make this less of an issue.

[Ickle Girl]

You've called him Dibs twice now. I thought it was a typo the first time. WTF?

our dibs

[Z e u s]

Rafa's competition for 4th was Everton and Villa.

City and Spurs have made qualifying for the CL much harder.

This is very true.

[gerrardlfc]

We've just lost at home to the bottom team, people who are saying whe are making progress are talking rubbish we are 5 years behind United and City easily. We bought average players from teams from Blackpool, Sunderland and Newcastle, what did we really expect this season

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

I know his name, I know his fame. Unfortunately it's his game I'm concerned about, I'm not calling for his head, just for some changes on the pitch, drop the slackers, give the fringe players a go.

Sound. Some people here are spewing shite about him that only serves to confirm that they are c*nts who don't go the match.

Spew your shite outside the HJC shop and see what happens.

[CHOPPER]

Didn't you mention Rafapool in the Gerrard thread after the derby? Seems a bit hypocritical, amongst many other things.

Trawl my posts, it's what you're good at, at least.

[Circa1892]

So, we're shite and will finish 7th/8th, a United side that is marginally better will win the title.

Off to get pissed.

[The G in Gerrard]

He's the only new addition we were missing today.  Enrique, Suarez, Carroll are in our first choice eleven, possibly Downing.

Not sure Carroll is first choice eleven mate. Downing shouldn't be imo.

Our play today was awful in first half. Compared to last season where we had goal threats from different areas, we rarely get anyone into the opposition box now and its been like that all season for some reason.

[geoffstrong]

You know i have been reflecting on something one poster said they idolise Rafa because he gave them the best night of their lives, perhaps this is the problem, Istanbul was great but some of us have seen many more great nights and one way or another this manager now who they are attacking was a part of most of them!

Maybe it is a generation thing as well?

[the good half]

I would never have imagined that Liverpool would be sa far off the pace.
Utterly disappointing from Manager to tealady.

And it aint gonna get better anytime soon.

[Crow]

I don't think Kenny is the kind to give up and resign. He's a winner, a fighter. He'll keep going. I hope he keeps going.

He's one of the only managers who can really get us out of this mess; I'd say Rafa is the most realistic replacement at the moment, but I doubt that he'd even return if we did lose Dalglish.

[GeneticRed]

Rafa's competition for 4th was Everton and Villa.

City and Spurs have made qualifying for the CL much harder.

Spurs were in the mix then too but you're right. It is much tougher now.

The question is our own direction.

We're not getting nearer them, we're getting further away.

It's probably not helpful for us as fans to compare the situation now with that of Rafa too much because so much has changed behind the scenes. Its much more useful to ask whether Kenny is progressing us or not and i don't think he is.

We're going backwards. We're sinking like a stone.

[redhokie8]

So, we're shite and will finish 7th/8th, a United side that is marginally better will win the title.

Off to get pissed.

I would agree that this is probably one of the weaker manu teams of recent times, but to say that they are marginally better is a joke.

[DutchRed]

I don't think Kenny is the kind to give up and resign. He's a winner, a fighter. He'll keep going. I hope he keeps going.

He's one of the only managers who can really get us out of this mess; I'd say Rafa is the most realistic replacement at the moment, but I doubt that he'd even return if we did lose Dalglish.

He will do whatever he thinks is the better for Liverpool.

[Pistolero]

I totally agree, but some of the blind faith on show here is bordering delusional.

the words faith, trust and loyalty obviously mean fuck all to you and the legions that have posted in this thread tonight....

thankfully I don't think this forum is representative of the thoughts of the majority of genuine Liverpool supporters

[PowderKeg]

Both. League is important, but some people are ridiculously obsessed with winning the 4th place cup. We all prefer the CL but we're not gonna win that thing anyway if no miracles occur.

Some people? You mean like all the players and the manager right? Because i'm pretty sure that became the goal after it was clear we weren't even remotely in the title hunt.

[Maggie May]

What's that little motto of ours again? Something along the lines of "No one person is bigger than the club"

Oh, and that other one, something along the lines of "players and managers will come and go, Liverpool football club will always remain"

And of course the short and simple "the club comes first".

I love Kenny. I always have and I always will. Nothing will ever diminish my undying love and adoration for that man. But I can't keep living in denial. I can't keep ignoring the fact that we're regressing in the desperate hope that its all eventually going to click and fall into place for us. My heart is telling me to defend him at all costs, but my head just wont let me blank out the harsh truths. Because the truth is, our league campaign has been beyond bad. It has actually been a total and utter failure. That was our 10th loss today. We've lost one third of all our league games. We have also drawn 9. Our home record is appalling. We've been continually dropping points all season against dross opposition. And there's no point denying the fact that we invested a significant amount of money in players who have simply not delivered.

We finished on 63 points in 2010. We played 38 games that season, winning 18, drawing 9 and losing 11. If we drop just 1 more point between now and the end of this season then we'll finish our league campaign on a lesser points tally than we finished on in 2010. Does anyone really think we have the ability to win our last 7 games on the bounce? Considering we have yet to even string as little as 3 wins together this season, I don't see us pulling it off to be honest, and I generally pride myself on being an optimist. Can we finish higher than 63 points this season? Sadly, I don't think we can. Rafa was sacked for finishing on 63 points and he didn't have the luxury of signing nigh on 100 million pounds worth of players in two transfer windows.

In my mind we've got a two options here. Option 1 is we retain the current management, despite the fact we're slipping ever further towards mid table. We retain them in the hopes that they can improve 10 fold on this seasons abysmal league campaign. My heart wants this option.

Option 2 is the harder one. Option 2 is the one where we don't let our hearts rule our heads, and where we apply the same assessment criteria to the current management that was applied to our former European Cup winning manager in 2010, just 1 short year after he had led us to a club record points tally of 86.

That's what it essentially boils down to IMHO. Those motto's I mentioned are ringing loud in my head right now if I'm honest. And I say that with a heavy heart. I can't put in words how much I wanted the clubs greatest living icon to return and to be a triumphant. Every one of us wanted it, but sadly I don't think its going to have the ending we all wanted. I'd love to be proved wrong mind, but that's just how I honestly feel. I also think we'd be foolish to let a league cup success mask the fact that we're slipping further behind in our league form. But as I said, nothing will ever diminish my love and adoration for that man, he will always be the living breathing embodiment of all that is good about Liverpool FC. I'm just offering my honest feelings is all, in the most respectful way I can. Because I've nothing but total respect for Kenny, and I always will

Thank Christ you weren't about when Shanks had been just over a year in the job.

[jonnyfish]

This season was always about bedding the squad in but frankly if all the squad are going to be bedded into is this culture of losing and bottling games then I'd rather we didn't.  Yeah we are going to wembley but the league is the bread and butter, it always has been for this club and I'm disappointed there just seems to be no fight in us at the moment. Case in point today, 2-1 down to Wigan at home in 08/09 and we fought back to win it, today we didn't even look capable of doing it.

We need strong leaders to emerge from this team, Gerrard can't be relied on to do it game in game out anymore and if the new players want to show they deserve to wear the shirt then now is the time to do it.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

The thing I find most amusing about these post match threads are that there are people who think that any manager's post match comments are the full total of what he really thinks. 

Tiredness has been a huge factor in our last two games, it has been obvious to anyone who has watched them.  That of course does not absolve the management team of blame. It is their job to keep the players in condition throughout the season, resting them when necessary.

[gerrardlfc]

Blaming the performance on tiredness is a joke, what about Stoke City? They are 4 points behind us with spending alot less money than us and playing more games, whos tired? absoultley stupid to say a professinal footballer is tired, whta about united and city are htey not tired playing cl and europa league games,

[geoffstrong]

I would agree that this is probably one of the weaker manu teams of recent times, but to say that they are marginally better is a joke.

Played them 3 times this season won one, lost one drawn one seems marginal to me

[1021]

hahaha once again you rise to it, the valiant crusader for Rafapool.

If you'd like to know, really that last line should be aimed at many more in this abomination of a thread than I. Why are we dsisscusing Benitez answer me that?

Like him, I loved him, I just didn't idolise him, like yourself. 

If the fact I idolise Rafa Benitez is supposed to be a slight, then it is one I'll happy take.
I adore the man.

From my perspective any mention of Rafa Benitez would serve as a fucking brilliant warning.
When you turn on wonderful managers who'd run through brick walls for the Club and fail to notice the real issues (the cowards on the pitch who won't run through brick walls because they're more worried about getting hurt or dirtying their kit) you'll live to regret it.

We got Hodgson for our idiocy.
Now we have Kenny an even bigger legend that Rafa and people are calling for his head.

What will our rewards be for this betrayal eh? I hear Steve Bruce is free, how about giving Comolli the gig? Or Carragher player/manager.

The pathetic short termism, the idolising players who haven't been arsed unless it was a big game all season, for a number of years in some cases, and the fucking NOW! NOW! NOW! attitude people have. That is the problem.

And if you love Rafa, how about you save your comments for when you feel like saying something pleasant about the man.

[Gnurglan]

Rafa's competition for 4th was Everton and Villa.

City and Spurs have made qualifying for the CL much harder.

Don't think so. We always say it's harder now than it was before. I'd say it's the same.

[ThepepeReina]

You know i have been reflecting on something one poster said they idolise Rafa because he gave them the best night of their lives, perhaps this is the problem, Istanbul was great but some of us have seen many more great nights and one way or another this manager now who they are attacking was a part of most of them!

Maybe it is a generation thing as well?

Of course it is. Rafa is my shankly.

[Greyfox]

If Kenny really cared for this club he should resign.
He was the wrong choice based on sentemntality... but pragmatic at the time.
Give up Kenny we'll still all love you.

Do fuck off...He was the right choice then, and pulled this club together from the disaster that was Purslow FC....we are no worst off now than last year, in fact we have already qualified for Europe right now...and we have players who now CAN make a fucking difference

Another Skywashed wannitnow wanker hat

[gerrardlfc]

So, we're shite and will finish 7th/8th, a United side that is marginally better will win the title.

Off to get pissed.

Can you explain how United are marginally better are 28 points ahead of us with a game in hand?? is that marginally? Table does not lie

[Pistolero]

Blaming the performance on tiredness is a joke, what about Stoke City? They are 4 points behind us with spending alot less money than us and playing more games, whos tired? absoultley stupid to say a professinal footballer is tired, whta about united and city are htey not tired playing cl and europa league games,

ironic that you appeared to grow more tired as your post went on...

[DutchRed]

Some people? You mean like all the players and the manager right? Because i'm pretty sure that became the goal after it was clear we weren't even remotely in the title hunt.

Some people was a huge understatement. Everybody would think 5th is a failure and 4th would be mission accomplished. But why? To get battered. Because that's what will happen. The Europa League perfectly suits us.

[Upinsmoke]

Can we stop talking about Rafa.

Yes lets bring him back like we did with kenny, even though kenny got sacked or resigned because of the pressure. Then we will say why the fuck was rafa brought back, we're not progressing, regressing. (speaking in theory in the future then)

Lets just see what happens, we all (most then) like a whinge and a moan whether your defending something or attacking something but its up to the owners and kenny ultimately where we go from here.

[Junkle]

John henry had better soccer brains than some of us in the summer. Pls mr henry tell al of us again about acquillani may be this time around you willl have a respectful response than the rubeshe that was uttered.

Again every single time I watch Jonjo I see quality and every single time I watch hendo or adam I wonder where the heck is Jonjo.

[DutchRed]

Thank Christ you weren't about when Shanks had been just over a year in the job.

That was in a completely different era of football.

[geoffstrong]

Of course it is. Rafa is my shankly.

poor imitation to be fair to him and Shanks!

However I see your point shame you were not around for the real Shankly then you might understand our disgust at the posts about Kenny!

[PowderKeg]

Thank Christ you weren't about when Shanks had been just over a year in the job.

Quick question...

were you around at that time?

Because unless i'm very mistaken football has changed A LOT since then...so while everyone here loves strolling down memory lane, most of us do in fact have to live in the present.

[gerrardlfc]

ironic that you appeared to grow more tired as your post went on...

Sorry just angry that pathetic excuses keep coming, do you agree tiredness was to blame for today?

[Z e u s]

Can we stop talking about Rafa.