Topic: full time Liverpool 1-2 Wigan Athletic

[Vulmea]

Rightly or wrongly the marker was set by the fans with the dismissal of Roy Hodgson. Whether you believed he was the antithesis of the Liverpool Way is really irrelevant. At that time the example was set by all and sundry that it was OK to hound out a manager because of personal dislikes rather than the bigger picture (which is patience obviously). That was the example set by most from nouveau to hardened.

Only if you are a tabloid journalist do you have to think in such black and white terms.

Unfortunately you have not really understood the Hodgson issue. The whole premise of your post is wrong. Your post discusses the merits of Hodgson the manager and dismisses those of the man.

Hodgson was not hounded out because he was the wrong manager despite being the worst in 50 years or because of his face rubbing but because he was the wrong man. Liverpool demands a manager that understands the club and its fans. Hodgson did not, worse than that he didn’t even try, even worse again he tried to shape the club in his image, to build a club with no expectations, to tell the fans how they should behave. If you don’t understand this then I’m not sure what you do understand.

'Freefall' - didn't we outplay the current form side in the prem, batter Everton and beat Stoke to qualify for the FA cup semi final in the last fortnight? 'free fall' by that you mean that some fans have turned on the manager, generally those with the most self importance and the least patience. The creme de la creme.

If Kenny goes in the summer it will be exactly because we haven't given him time. Kenny is the right man, he's yet to show whether he's the right manager but if he does not deserve time who does?

Our modern fans are a laughing stock - they were handed a legacy of being the greatest most knowledgeable fans in the country and have burnt that legacy publically on every forum and phone-in in the land for a decade.

Support -

We are only custodians. The Kop is a spirit, an attitude, the heart and soul of Liverpool F.C. No-one owns it, but together we are a legion, a force like no other.
 
The Kop is a one-off. It's the cradle of terrace culture, humour, songs - the original 12th Man. The Kop innovates. It has never followed.

Liverpool F.C exists as a source of pride for its supporters. It has no other purpose. If that is the club's pledge to us, here's ours to the team. "The Kop exists as a bastion of support. We will get behind the team through thick and thin. We will, always, give them strength
 
These were the first three statements in the Kop Charter. How do they sound after reading this thread?

 As the great man said -

You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are.

Are we the best fans do you think?

[west_london_red]

plod on mate, your doing well. If wanting the club to win trophies before finishing fourth is whats wrong with this club today, then plod on

Wanting to play against the likes of Barca, Real Madrid, AC Milan etc and beating them is also what this clubs about.

[BlackpoolRock]

I must say as a timid bystander I think a fair portion of people in this thread are using nostalgic romanticism instead of clear pragmatism. I understand a lot of the older fans will be a bit more loyal to Kenny, they watched him when they were growing up so they have a stronger bond toward him. What's interesting is the way these older fans belittle the younger ones for having a lack of patience and aren't true Liverpool supporters like themselves because they aren't passionate about their loyalty to a legend. That's all well and good, but my eyes witnessed these younger Liverpool fans show the same kind of loyalty and passion towards a hero from their era, Benitez, while many of the older fans I sopke to wanted him out.

You all seem to actually hold the same principles but are loyal to your eras, and that seems to be creating a divide.

PS. LMFAO at 4th is same as 17th.

[geoffstrong 1937-2013 RIP]

Wrong, Dalglish must win matches as simple as it is.

you do realise he isn't on the pitch then, who was it who said once they cross that white line we can do fuck all about the way they play, Bob somebody I think although I embellished it a bit for today's football consumers!

do you think Kenny ( or Mr Dalglish to you) doesn't want to win matches, he has had a winning mentality all his life and if some players haven't they will be gone even the established ones in the summer.

[buzzing]

btw - Sterling MOTM

[Passmaster Molby]

The cups were targetted because we had no Europe, simple as that. That is not short termism rather utilising what is available. The fact that we won one and are still in the running for the other means job done.

Using your analogy I see the CC and FA Cup as ground bait, laid down in advance of the rod going in. Without it, you are going to struggle to catch fuck all even with a net.

So next year we start to go for the CL places then? Ok, so are you expecting the owners to shell out the millions needed for the top players to improve the team? Kenny has complained about tiredness and playing too many games this season so how are we going to cope with an assault on the top 4 as well as playing in the cups? Do you think top players are going to come to a club like ours who isn't even in the running for the CL placings let alone a title challenge?

We missed our chance this season and it will set us back years.

[spider-neil]

personally speaking I want kenny to be given another season, the sad thing is kenny has put himself in a position where if he were sacked tonight there would be little opposition for the decision.
that said I still want kenny to be given time, managers need time, there was a huge turnover in the summer and the amount of new players isn't going to instantly slot into place.

[geoffstrong 1937-2013 RIP]

Only if you are a tabloid journalist do you have to think in such black and white terms.

Unfortunately you have not really understood the Hodgson issue. The whole premise of your post is wrong. Your post discusses the merits of Hodgson the manager and dismisses those of the man.

Hodgson was not hounded out because he was the wrong manager despite being the worst in 50 years or because of his face rubbing but because he was the wrong man. Liverpool demands a manager that understands the club and its fans. Hodgson did not, worse than that he didn’t even try, even worse again he tried to shape the club in his image, to build a club with no expectations, to tell the fans how they should behave. If you don’t understand this then I’m not sure what you do understand.

'Freefall' - didn't we outplay the current form side in the prem, batter Everton and beat Stoke to qualify for the FA cup semi final in the last fortnight? 'free fall' by that you mean that some fans have turned on the manager, generally those with the most self importance and the least patience. The creme de la creme.

If Kenny goes in the summer it will be exactly because we haven't given him time. Kenny is the right man, he's yet to show whether he's the right manager but if he does not deserve time who does?

Our modern fans are a laughing stock - they were handed a legacy of being the greatest most knowledgeable fans in the country and have burnt that legacy publically on every forum and phone-in in the land for a decade.

Support -

We are only custodians. The Kop is a spirit, an attitude, the heart and soul of Liverpool F.C. No-one owns it, but together we are a legion, a force like no other.
 
The Kop is a one-off. It's the cradle of terrace culture, humour, songs - the original 12th Man. The Kop innovates. It has never followed.

Liverpool F.C exists as a source of pride for its supporters. It has no other purpose. If that is the club's pledge to us, here's ours to the team. "The Kop exists as a bastion of support. We will get behind the team through thick and thin. We will, always, give them strength
 
These were the first three statements in the Kop Charter. How do they sound after reading this thread?

 As the great man said -

You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are.

Are we the best fans do you think?

Brilliant and like the avatar as well.

[gandalf50]

so you would play Robinson before Enrique and Aurelio then right now, as for youth who gave Flanno and Robinson games last season, who brought Spearing in last season when you all wanted Raul in there, who brought Sterling on yesterday who has made Kelly a major player in our squad, yeah your right Kenny holds back young players! Shelvey is working in an area were frankly who does he come on for given that even yesterday we were missing Bellamy, Lucas, Adam, Maxi out of that area, and still had Spearing, Gerrard, Kuyt, Henderson playing,  maybe Adam but he should never be first choice anyway!

As for Kenny's quick fix clueless covers it, you either have never seen the old teams or are just pulling names out of hat for fun

Last season doesn`t count. Aurelio is finished at the club, that`s plain to see. I said Enrique was knackered and maybe should be rested for a while. Kelly will be back on the bench as soon as Johnson is fit. Also he is almost 22 so should be pushing for a place. Spearing is good when he has someone really reliable beside him like Lucas. Also he is 23 now and so should not be seen as youth.
I don`t think I am entirely wrong in what I said. I think Kenny believed his buys would make us contenders almost instantly. He is a born winner who beleives that any team he puts on the field, if it competes, will come out on top.

[ziggyy]

Still thinking short term, I see. Your stuck in the past. It's time to move on. This is 2012 not 1980. Some of us can see there's problems with the club at the moment in time. Just a shame your blind loyalty is clouding that.

Give it up mate. Compared to last season, at least we didn't have to go through a relegation dog fight. That's progress...

[buzzing]

personally speaking I want kenny to be given another season, the sad thing is kenny has put himself in a position where if he were tonight there would be little opposition for the decision.
that said I still want kenny to be given time, managers need time, there was a huge turnover in the summer and the amount of new players isn't going to instantly slot into place.

Agreed

However, the new players haven't really shown what they bring to the team - Henderson is being used in the wrong position, carroll doesn't really fit into the team, and although getting better Downing isn't that great

[geoffstrong 1937-2013 RIP]

Last season doesn`t count. Aurelio is finished at the club, that`s plain to see. I said Enrique was knackered and maybe should be rested for a while. Kelly will be back on the bench as soon as Johnson is fit. Also he is almost 22 so should be pushing for a place. Spearing is good when he has someone really reliable beside him like Lucas. Also he is 23 now and so should not be seen as youth.
I don`t think I am entirely wrong in what I said. I think Kenny believed his buys would make us contenders almost instantly. He is a born winner who beleives that any team he puts on the field, if it competes, will come out on top.

why doesnt last season count given the age of the squad that had to be got rid off as well, or is it your point isn't helped by last season teams picked by Kenny!

[BlackpoolRock]

"Give a man a fish and he will feed himself for the day, but give the man a fishing rod and he will feed himself for life."

The Carling Cup is a mere fish which quenches our immediate hunger for a trophy. Once its gone we are back to being starved of success. Qualifying for the Champions League is our fishing rod. It enables us to build finances to take on the top sides and hopefully one day build a side capable of challenging for the ultimate prize, just as we did 3 seasons ago.

The management took a short term view in my opinion to target the cups at the expense of the league this season, and next season we will fall even further behind the top sides financially which makes it even harder to compete. Like it or loathe it, the coveted Champions League places are like gold and we have to be up there to make the necessary improvements. This season, without europe, we had a golden chance to make it but we have absolutely fucked any chance we had of this. Next season, with Thursday night football and a probable reduction in transfer kitty to improve the squad, we have made it increasingly difficult to get past the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and the Manchester Clubs.

Brilliant summary.

[GeneticRed]

"Give a man a fish and he will feed himself for the day, but give the man a fishing rod and he will feed himself for life."

The Carling Cup is a mere fish which quenches our immediate hunger for a trophy. Once its gone we are back to being starved of success. Qualifying for the Champions League is our fishing rod. It enables us to build finances to take on the top sides and hopefully one day build a side capable of challenging for the ultimate prize, just as we did 3 seasons ago.

The management took a short term view in my opinion to target the cups at the expense of the league this season, and next season we will fall even further behind the top sides financially which makes it even harder to compete. Like it or loathe it, the coveted Champions League places are like gold and we have to be up there to make the necessary improvements. This season, without europe, we had a golden chance to make it but we have absolutely fucked any chance we had of this. Next season, with Thursday night football and a probable reduction in transfer kitty to improve the squad, we have made it increasingly difficult to get past the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and the Manchester Clubs.

Not sure about the fishing analogy but this is spot on in my view. The two big competitions go hand in hand. We should be having a right good go at fourth right now but are way off.
There is nothing wrong with wanting this and aiming high. It shouldn't be deemed unrealistic for a club who won the champions league 7 years ago to be looking to get back in there straight away. It's true that there have been so many behind the scenes changes and much upheaval but this should actually make our task easier that we're more settled now. Maybe fourth was too much to ask this season but we're not even fighting for it, we're way off and thats the worrying part. With all the resources we had available at the start of the season we should be doing better in the league than what we are doing now. And there's nothing wrong with expecting that. It doesn't mean you disrespect Kenny by saying so.

[Mr Rossi]

Agreed

However, the new players haven't really shown what they bring to the team - Henderson is being used in the wrong position, carroll doesn't really fit into the team, and although getting better Downing isn't that great

Its imperitive that our next lot of signings make more of a mark on the side then the ones we've just bought. If we sign Scott Sinclair or Matt Jarvis I might just shed a tear.

[Zelnaga]

Give it up mate. Compared to last season, at least we didn't have to go through a relegation dog fight. That's progress...

If you want to compare last season, if it wasnt for the disaster that was Roy Hodgson, we were winning games under Kenny and doing brilliantly. After removing alot of players (whether they were shite or not) and finally having his own team, and to end up where we are now? Is that progress? Sure his new team takes time to bed in, but isnt that Kenny job to manage his players?

[gandalf50]

why doesnt last season count given the age of the squad that had to be got rid off as well, or is it your point isn't helped by last season teams picked by Kenny!

Because all he was doing last season was steadying the ship. Just get us to the end of the season in reasonable shape, get the job full time and start from there. The real job started at the beginning of this season.

[Jonathan Hall ☆☆☆☆☆]

Sorry, not sure about the other mods BUT i've got better things to do than to read the amount of crap being posted on this thread and RAWK.

If another mod wants to re-open and moderate it then all well and good.