Topic: Raheem Sterling

[jooneyisdagod]

Obviously you aren't being serious if you think the last time Downing beat a man in this fashion was against Man United...

Sterling only beat 1 man, did some step overs and cut inside him, then ran across another to shoot, was a nice play.

When Exaggeration goes to far...

Sterling was a 17 year old making his debut.  Downing is a 27 year old so called thoroughbred who has been capped internationally. 

[penga]

That's the point I was making about kuyt as a winger who stops his full back but never goes past him. Barnesy used to come back to about 30 yards from goal but he woulddo that as much to keep a shape and be ready for the counter as to actually defend. Obviously there's a time and a place but I don't see Ronaldo coming back too often nor do i see him left unmarked when he stands there.

Wing play is risk and reward and we have always been more risk averse than ManUtd.

United's wingers actually do track back too especially Valencia, who can actually tackle better than Kuyt. So they are lucky in that sense.

Also in the 10-11 season, Nani made like 3 times the amount of tackles that Kuyt did in the mid stage of the season in similar game time.

Both of which backs up your point that he should be moved on.

[macca007]

Right the reasons are not that Sterling isn't good enough to play.  He is too young.  This is proven through studies about the impact on a young players body and the stresses and strains and how it makes long term injuries more likely.  Patience is a virtue and too many need to learn it.  He is here for many years why do we have to rush him because at the second things aren't going perfectly our way.  I reckon I'll end up writing a long piece on this when I get round to it just to prove a point!

[bigbear]

United's wingers actually do track back too especially Valencia, who can actually tackle better than Kuyt. So they are lucky in that sense.

Also in the 10-11 season, Nani made like 3 times the amount of tackles that Kuyt did in the mid stage of the season in similar game time.

Both of which backs up your point that he should be moved on.

Valencia is top drawer.

One of the biggest differences we have with them is that they have so many good wide options so they can use a player when he's playing well,then rest him for a good few weeks when he's not. We've been flogging Henderson up and down the right wing all season even though he's a kid who would prefer to play centrally. If Downing is not playing well we effectively play without a real winger.

[penga]

Sterling was a 17 year old making his debut.  Downing is a 27 year old so called thoroughbred who has been capped internationally.

That's irrelevant, was merely pointing out how people should put things into perspective and not go on and over hype things.

Valencia is top drawer.

One of the biggest differences we have with them is that they have so many good wide options so they can use a player when he's playing well,then rest him for a good few weeks when he's not. We've been flogging Henderson up and down the right wing all season even though he's a kid who would prefer to play centrally. If Downing is not playing well we effectively play without a real winger.

Indeed. We need to push hard to obtain the services Hoilett who should be free - low risk high gain potential. And then sign a more recognised class wide man on top of that. And move on 1 or 2 of Maxi and Kuyt, 1 ofem seems to be definitely off anyway.

[jooneyisdagod]

That's irrelevant, was merely pointing out how people should put things into perspective and not go on and over hype things.

I've already stated why I think the hype machine might be in full flow with respect to Sterling.  He is our third youngest player of all time after all.

[Juan Loco]

Valencia is top drawer.

One of the biggest differences we have with them is that they have so many good wide options so they can use a player when he's playing well,then rest him for a good few weeks when he's not. We've been flogging Henderson up and down the right wing all season even though he's a kid who would prefer to play centrally. If Downing is not playing well we effectively play without a real winger.

Made this exact point with you before. Young started the season on fire whilst Valencia was playing shite (then injured if memory serves). Then Young fell off and Nani played well. Valencia then played well for months and now Young is showing a bit of form too.

Downing started the season well for us, then he fell off. ... And we had fuck all.

[Bob Loblaw]

Valencia is top drawer.

One of the biggest differences we have with them is that they have so many good wide options so they can use a player when he's playing well,then rest him for a good few weeks when he's not. We've been flogging Henderson up and down the right wing all season even though he's a kid who would prefer to play centrally. If Downing is not playing well we effectively play without a real winger.

That's completely our own doing though, Maxi has been available, Bellamy too sat out more than a few that he was fit for.

As poor as Henderson has been at times, i think the handling of him has been equally so.

[spinaltapped]

A big issue with the team is that we have no good options out wide, so they clog the middle and we get choked. It's a big reason why our strikers have been forced into contested shots all a season. Whenever we have a threatening option out wide (whether it's Bells or Maxi on the odd match), we look so much better and are able to have a more complete offense. Having a player out wide who is both tricky and willing to take on a defender both makes our offense less one dimensional as well as allowing the striker to play their natural game more regularly.

The only two players who I think are capable of doing that constantly are Bells and Raheem. Bells is injured, so I think that Raheem is very important to us. I don't want us to become dependent on him this early in his career, but that being said, I think that he should be getting a run out until we're able to acquire a better option (older, possesses the same talent) in the summer.

[subroc]

Sterling should be blooded in games this part of the season, but very carefully so as not to burn him out or to cause injury to him.

[Z e u s]

How come if we start Sterling in the first team - people say we will burn Sterling out.  But we play him for 90 minutes in the reserve league?

The odd start won't burn him out will it?!

[Hij]

How come if we start Sterling in the first team - people say we will burn Sterling out.  But we play him for 90 minutes in the reserve league?

The odd start won't burn him out will it?!

I don't think we should be throwing him in for a start, away at Newcastle for instance, but would totally agree with 30 minutes at home say against Aston Villa.

[Z e u s]

I don't think we should be throwing him in for a start, away at Newcastle for instance, but would totally agree with 30 minutes at home say against Aston Villa.

I wouldn't start him vs Newcastle either. 

But I find it interesting how people are happy for him to start for the reserves, but if he starts for the first team then we are risking burning him out... I don't see the difference personally.  90minutes is 90 minutes, regardless of the team.

I'd give Sterling 20 minutes from the bench vs Newcastle and if he impresses again and is clearly better than the other wide options we have - then I'd start him.

[KirkVanHouten]

I tell you something that made me furious. When he was fouled just as he was running just outside the box, it was a fucking cynical tackle on a 17 year old player on debut and Watson didn't even get a yellow card.

[Believe]

I wouldn't start him vs Newcastle either. 

But I find it interesting how people are happy for him to start for the reserves, but if he starts for the first team then we are risking burning him out... I don't see the difference personally.  90minutes is 90 minutes, regardless of the team.

I'd give Sterling 20 minutes from the bench vs Newcastle and if he impresses again and is clearly better than the other wide options we have - then I'd start him.

There is no comparison between a reserve match and a competitive premiership game, other than the sport involved. It's also the mental demands that are involved, the huge expectations of the fans and how that can potentially damage someone who isn't ready. Look at what's happened to Hendo this season, and he's only 2.5 years older than Raheem!

Now, I don't know whether he's ready or not but the danger is that people start assuming that a 17 year old kid is the answer to the current malaise in league results, and that's a dangerous thing.

I totally want to see him in more 10 / 20 minute end of game cameos though!

[KirkVanHouten]

I wouldn't start him vs Newcastle either. 

But I find it interesting how people are happy for him to start for the reserves, but if he starts for the first team then we are risking burning him out... I don't see the difference personally.  90minutes is 90 minutes, regardless of the team.

I'd give Sterling 20 minutes from the bench vs Newcastle and if he impresses again and is clearly better than the other wide options we have - then I'd start him.

That is honestly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Do you really believe that? That there is no difference in intensity or quality from the reserves to the premier league and that starting a 17 year old who is not fully developed physically each week is no different to him playing in the reserve games. 

[subroc]

How come if we start Sterling in the first team - people say we will burn Sterling out.  But we play him for 90 minutes in the reserve league?

The odd start won't burn him out will it?!

The pace and intensity of a full Premiership game is higher than in the reserve league. The expectations will be much higher too - if he makes a rookie's error that leads to a goal against the team etc, he may be so stricken by it that it may affect him and stop him from playing freely. Not to mention that the kind of tackles and physicality that he will be - has already been in his debut game - subjected to will be of a greater force. He is only 17 and is still a kid - but the defenders who will be cutting him down will have no compunction about hurting him.

[DanA]

He is only 17 and is still a kid - but the defenders who will be cutting him down will have no compunction about hurting him.

In fact I think defenders will go a little bit the other way. Test him out a bit and see if they can get him scared of the next challenge or looking over his shoulder.

[Z e u s]

That is honestly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Do you really believe that? That there is no difference in intensity or quality from the reserves to the premier league and that starting a 17 year old who is not fully developed physically each week is no different to him playing in the reserve games. 

Obviously there is a difference, but as long as we manage him right and don't over play him, then I don't see why he couldn't start the odd Premiership game for the first team.

[stevensr123]

How is 10 games in a season even burning him out? Doing what we did to owen ( 44 games in his 1st propa season, although many might of been sub appearances, 34 for robbie) Then I would agree. But the guy is a young man, 5 or so games won't harm him, Infact giving him game time  and that "hunger" to start more, Will probably do him some good.

[El_Pistolero]

I tell you something that made me furious. When he was fouled just as he was running just outside the box, it was a fucking cynical tackle on a 17 year old player on debut and Watson didn't even get a yellow card.

Amazing isn't it, he's used to it though. Very rarely gets any sort of protection from the ref when he has three players triple-marking him for the reserves.

[ohweloveyerbaldyhead]

I worry slightly for this lad. As soon as he came on he was being treated like he has all the answers to our problems. There were plenty of shouts like 'give it to Raheem'. The lad is 17 and our team is shite what do you expect him to do? For me he still isn't ready but if Kenny thinks he is then fair enough I back him. Just don't think people should expect too much and just let him get on with it and develop his game.

[subroc]

I worry slightly for this lad. As soon as he came on he was being treated like he has all the answers to our problems. There were plenty of shouts like 'give it to Raheem'. The lad is 17 and our team is shite what do you expect him to do? For me he still isn't ready but if Kenny thinks he is then fair enough I back him. Just don't think people should expect too much and just let him get on with it and develop his game.

In this respect I think that Dalglish's caution with over exposing Sterling is justified. The last thing I want to see is the psosible future of our left wing ruined because of short term needs and a season that is already gone.

[J-Mc-]

I worry slightly for this lad. As soon as he came on he was being treated like he has all the answers to our problems. There were plenty of shouts like 'give it to Raheem'. The lad is 17 and our team is shite what do you expect him to do? For me he still isn't ready but if Kenny thinks he is then fair enough I back him. Just don't think people should expect too much and just let him get on with it and develop his game.

I don't think anyone expected him to change the game, I think people just wanted to see the lad on the ball to see what he's got.

No doubt he's well heard off throughout the Liverpool contingent of the city, yet most won't have seen the lad play, hence the shouts of 'give it to Raheem.'

He seemed to love the pressure though, you could see him react to shouts like 'Go ed lad, take him on' and other such things. He loved it by the look of things.

[yorkykopite]

I worry slightly for this lad. As soon as he came on he was being treated like he has all the answers to our problems. There were plenty of shouts like 'give it to Raheem'.

Nothing wrong in that. Imagine what it does to your confidence to hear that on your debut. Fantastic.

There's usually a bit of a pattern with talented youngsters like Sterling. In the first few games they're fearless, fresh, and unknown. They're capable of not just turning a game, but taking it by the scruff of the neck. It's later when tiredness sets in and defenders have learned to neutralise the obvious strengths - that's when there's a bit of a crisis. It happened to Giggs, it happened to Heighway, it happened to McManaman, it happened to Walcott. Those players had to re-think their game a bit and learn new ways of beating a man.

However, we're not there yet. Where we're at is a place where a raw, largely unknown Sterling might do some real damage, even to seasoned defences. And that's why I'd play him in the Semi, and the Final after he's helped get us there. 

[.adam]

I'm in the "if he's good enough, he's old enough" camp. Give him progressively more and more minutes. Should be looking at 20 minutes or so against Newcastle.

[Tepid water]

Let's not expect too mcin of Raheem....

He's payed about 9 minutes of first team football.

We don't really know how he will do against the better teams or over 90 minutes.

We can hope for the best, but we can't expect it. To compare him against established professionals somewhat ignores the fact that they've proved themselves over 100s of league games (even if they're playing shite at the moment) and have had runs of great succes...Raheem has 9 minutes... Give him room to breath guys

[harleydanger]

Right the reasons are not that Sterling isn't good enough to play.  He is too young.  This is proven through studies about the impact on a young players body and the stresses and strains and how it makes long term injuries more likely.  Patience is a virtue and too many need to learn it.  He is here for many years why do we have to rush him because at the second things aren't going perfectly our way.  I reckon I'll end up writing a long piece on this when I get round to it just to prove a point!

There's a big difference between Owen et al playing 90 mins in the prem, 90 mins in the cups and 90 mins in the CL every week to the game time we have available right now to throw at kids.

[gazzathered]

I tell you something that made me furious. When he was fouled just as he was running just outside the box, it was a fucking cynical tackle on a 17 year old player on debut and Watson didn't even get a yellow card.

Yellow all day, ref was shite all game but we shouldn't blame him for losing

[macca007]

There's a big difference between Owen et al playing 90 mins in the prem, 90 mins in the cups and 90 mins in the CL every week to the game time we have available right now to throw at kids.

But will it add to their development as a player. Or could it hinder them. Give unrealistic expectations to the player and/or fans prematurely? The benefits to me in risking a young lad in an adults game when he is not fully developed which no matter what is said is biology to me do not outweigh the risk. It will not add anything to his development. And it's to do with te intensity of the games and the strains that come with it. I'm looking for an exciting player to be a part of this club for his career if possible. Not to shine for a while to be constantly dogged by injuries and that is the risk we are doing by playing him now.

[Red_Rich]

I still think he would benefit more by going to a good Championship side for a year - maybe Blackpool or Burnley for example (or, at a push, a Prem team that plays good stuff like Swansea or Norwich)

A lot will compare him to Chamberlain and Walcott, but he wont be able to deliver for us like that right away.  Those two had a run in the Southampton 1st team to find their feet.

[kevin87]

I tell you something that made me furious. When he was fouled just as he was running just outside the box, it was a fucking cynical tackle on a 17 year old player on debut and Watson didn't even get a yellow card.

yes and thats exactly how pposition players are going to react to a just 17 year old skinning them, if we play him constantly its what he's going to have to get used to. Ashley young got blatantly told by kevin muscat in his first game against Ipswitch that he was going to get his legs broken. Its all about how he deals with the intimidation of older players against him, but i think he'll be fine...the lad has ridiculously good balance and always seems to fall the right way when he does

[LiverBirdKop]

That's completely our own doing though, Maxi has been available, Bellamy too sat out more than a few that he was fit for.

As poor as Henderson has been at times, i think the handling of him has been equally so.

Agree. I hope Gerrard takes him under his wing if he hasn't already (doesn't appear to me that he has).  If he hasn't, I hope someone in management requests that of him.

[LiverBirdKop]

Let's not expect too mcin of Raheem....

He's payed about 9 minutes of first team football.

We don't really know how he will do against the better teams or over 90 minutes.

We can hope for the best, but we can't expect it. To compare him against established professionals somewhat ignores the fact that they've proved themselves over 100s of league games (even if they're playing shite at the moment) and have had runs of great succes...Raheem has 9 minutes... Give him room to breath guys

Not completely disagreeing with you, but he has to be given a chance as well especially when there's no pressure results wise. We're out of the running for 4th, we're already qualified for the Europa......if this is not the best scenario to give the young lads competitive minutes, then when??

[funkykingston]

Made this exact point with you before. Young started the season on fire whilst Valencia was playing shite (then injured if memory serves). Then Young fell off and Nani played well. Valencia then played well for months and now Young is showing a bit of form too.

Downing started the season well for us, then he fell off. ... And we had fuck all.

Ferguson is ruthless at playing the form players, but only because he has the fallback options. It's a vicious cycle in that they have the success so better players are happy to 'wait their turn'.

[KirkVanHouten]

Yellow all day, ref was shite all game but we shouldn't blame him for losing

I certainly don't blame the ref for us losing, we were woeful for most of the game. It just astounds me how gutless that was from him.

[chanti]

Buzzing for him.

Same excitement as the first time I saw Owen and "Rooney", "Ronaldo".

This guy will turn into Gold, he has something special for sure!!

[-HH-]

The danger with giving him a run out like this was always that people expect too much, too soon. Hope he continues to be eased into the team with these kinds of cameos. Yes, it's frustrating at the time for fans because we can see he's a talent - but people should take how Ronaldo was blooded at the Mancs as an example of how to do it right. He arrived older than sterling is now and it took three years or so for him to become a proper regular. Sterling is an excellent prospect who could save us a lot of money but that only works if we blood him properly. He's not the quick fix to short term issues that everyone craves.

[LondonRedMan]

Well done on the debut.

Very exciting player. Hope to see some more of him in the league games. Who knows, he may even get some time in the FA cup this season. Final appearance would be brilliant for him personally.

[scatman]

Agree. I hope Gerrard takes him under his wing if he hasn't already (doesn't appear to me that he has).  If he hasn't, I hope someone in management requests that of him.

I'd rather Gerrard just gives him the ball and Lucas takes him under his wing.