Author Topic: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only  (Read 24522 times)

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #680 on: March 25, 2012, 11:49:07 AM »
Joseba Etxeberria I think played for free for a season for Athletic Bilbao and Fernando Redondo did a similar thing (it might be him you're thinking of) but you're right, it doesn't happen a lot and I doubt Carragher would do it.
if Carra took a 1p paycut then you just know the likes of basCombe and winter would wank off big time in their columns
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Offline Fellini

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #681 on: March 25, 2012, 11:58:18 AM »
Irrespective of Carra's performances of late, Coates should be playing. We have nothing to play for in the league so get Coates in there and give him a chance to bed in alongside Skrtel. The kid has to play since he's going to be needed next season, assuming Agger's appalling injury record continues.
Regarding JC, some of the vitriol on here towards him is shocking. This guy is a legend who deserves the respect of every single person on this forum. Most of us realise his time seems to be up, and constructive criticism is fair enough, but at least show the man some respect.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #682 on: March 25, 2012, 12:01:13 PM »
He's been a fantastic defender for us over the years but he's become a liability this season.

He's been at fault for so many goals recently, but the guy seems bulletproof. It's worrying he's getting picked ahead of Coates.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #683 on: March 25, 2012, 12:04:42 PM »
Irrespective of Carra's performances of late, Coates should be playing. We have nothing to play for in the league so get Coates in there and give him a chance to bed in alongside Skrtel. The kid has to play since he's going to be needed next season, assuming Agger's appalling injury record continues.
Regarding JC, some of the vitriol on here towards him is shocking. This guy is a legend who deserves the respect of every single person on this forum. Most of us realise his time seems to be up, and constructive criticism is fair enough, but at least show the man some respect.

Well put.
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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #684 on: March 25, 2012, 12:20:14 PM »
We are rather stuck with him unless he chooses to retire. No other club in the world is going to pay the salary he's getting here, or even half the salary. In days gone by he'd have left Liverpool 2 or 3 years back when his powers were already on the wane and when we already had Agger and Skrtel itching to play. He'd have had a couple of years at Blackburn or Wolves or Notts Forest before having to face reality - the reality being that no one wants old centre-backs who've lost their pace and strength.

There's a hoary old myth that says centre-backs can go on forever because they rely on positioning not pace. It's not true and there's little evidence for it. The problem with being a centre-back is that if you make a mistake there's generally no one else around to rescue it. It's a merciless position in that respect because you can't mask your decline. No amount of running off the ball from colleagues will compensate for the old centre-back's loss of pace - which is not true of, say, central midfield.

Carragher now is a soft touch for opposing forwards. They know they can beat him for speed, they know they can beat him in the air, they know they have the strength to turn him, and they know he's afraid to get tight. They also know that he's useless with the ball at his feet and that they can save precious energy by letting him have as much time on the ball as he wants. There's no point pressing him (the Wigan forwards didn't yesterday) because he'll squander possession anyway.

He had unbelievable amounts of time and space on the ball yesterday. A half decent centre-back, given that freedom, would have been Liverpool's most destructive player. Such a player would have made for those enormous gaps quickly and taken two or three opponents out before finding a Red shirt in space.

But Carra, who now hops rather than runs, couldn't capitalise. Such is his lack of faith in his own control that he has to run his studs over the ball after every stride to make sure it's not rolling away from him. Pitiful. And then when he stops he finds it unaccountably difficult to start again. We all saw him yesterday. Stood over the ball with his right leg cocked, trying to make a decision about what to do next. It looked even worse because, like I said, the Wigan lads stood off him and simply let the inevitable happen. They knew that they'd have the ball back in a second or two.

When I think of Carragher now I'm no longer even angry. That phase came and went between 2006-09. Now it's just pure resignation. Kenny has done half the job by keeping him off the pitch when Agger's fit. But he's still got the other half to do: ie keeping him off the pitch when Coates is fit.

Now's the time to do it of course. There won't be a better one to get Coates up to speed for next season. It might be an idea to get Wisdom on the bench too. Why not? These lads have to start somewhere. Meanwhile Carragher will probably do what no professional footballer used to do at Liverpool - treat the club as a nice retirement home.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #685 on: March 25, 2012, 12:33:25 PM »
We are rather stuck with him unless he chooses to retire. No other club in the world is going to pay the salary he's getting here, or even half the salary. In days gone by he'd have left Liverpool 2 or 3 years back when his powers were already on the wane and when we already had Agger and Skrtel itching to play. He'd have had a couple of years at Blackburn or Wolves or Notts Forest before having to face reality - the reality being that no one wants old centre-backs who've lost their pace and strength.

There's a hoary old myth that says centre-backs can go on forever because they rely on positioning not pace. It's not true and there's little evidence for it. The problem with being a centre-back is that if you make a mistake there's generally no one else around to rescue it. It's a merciless position in that respect because you can't mask your decline. No amount of running off the ball from colleagues will compensate for the old centre-back's loss of pace - which is not true of, say, central midfield.

Carragher now is a soft touch for opposing forwards. They know they can beat him for speed, they know they can beat him in the air, they know they have the strength to turn him, and they know he's afraid to get tight. They also know that he's useless with the ball at his feet and that they can save precious energy by letting him have as much time on the ball as he wants. There's no point pressing him (the Wigan forwards didn't yesterday) because he'll squander possession anyway.

He had unbelievable amounts of time and space on the ball yesterday. A half decent centre-back, given that freedom, would have been Liverpool's most destructive player. Such a player would have made for those enormous gaps quickly and taken two or three opponents out before finding a Red shirt in space.

But Carra, who now hops rather than runs, couldn't capitalise. Such is his lack of faith in his own control that he has to run his studs over the ball after every stride to make sure it's not rolling away from him. Pitiful. And then when he stops he finds it unaccountably difficult to start again. We all saw him yesterday. Stood over the ball with his right leg cocked, trying to make a decision about what to do next. It looked even worse because, like I said, the Wigan lads stood off him and simply let the inevitable happen. They knew that they'd have the ball back in a second or two.

When I think of Carragher now I'm no longer even angry. That phase came and went between 2006-09. Now it's just pure resignation. Kenny has done half the job by keeping him off the pitch when Agger's fit. But he's still got the other half to do: ie keeping him off the pitch when Coates is fit.

Now's the time to do it of course. There won't be a better one to get Coates up to speed for next season. It might be an idea to get Wisdom on the bench too. Why not? These lads have to start somewhere. Meanwhile Carragher will probably do what no professional footballer used to do at Liverpool - treat the club as a nice retirement home.

Great post that mate.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #686 on: March 25, 2012, 12:35:46 PM »
to be fair to kenny, if he plays carra after coates he is effectively keeping a 90K a week player on the bench.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #687 on: March 25, 2012, 12:36:09 PM »
What worries me is we have time to get Coates more familiar with his back 4 but are wasteing time

This lads a quality dsfender
Covering for the clown lugano is no mean feat


But a defence is all about understanding
We need to use aggers injury by giving Coates valuable experience time
skillz pay the billz hehe

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #688 on: March 25, 2012, 12:36:58 PM »
to be fair to kenny, if he plays carra after coates he is effectively keeping a 90K a week player on the bench.

So what?

He's keeping the best players on the pitch. That's what matters.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #689 on: March 25, 2012, 12:38:26 PM »
to be fair to kenny, if he plays carra after coates he is effectively keeping a 90K a week player on the bench.

So it's a straight question. Is it better to have a 90K per week player watching or fucking up?

The waste of money doesn't make his mistakes any sweeter does it?

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #690 on: March 25, 2012, 12:43:31 PM »
to be fair to kenny, if he plays carra after coates he is effectively keeping a 90K a week player on the bench.

The logical next step is to move the 90k player onto someone else's bench, like Man did with their ageing cast offs, and Man Utd old boy Steve Bruce obligingly paid 12m for for the privilege of lightening their wage bill. Rather than reducing unnecessary expenditure and screwing someone else in the process, we're arguing that we shouldn't say a word against a club legend.
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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #691 on: March 25, 2012, 12:50:32 PM »
So it's a straight question. Is it better to have a 90K per week player watching or fucking up?

The waste of money doesn't make his mistakes any sweeter does it?

no it doesn't. basically the club were crazy to sanction that amount of money for an aging defender.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #692 on: March 25, 2012, 12:56:26 PM »
no it doesn't. basically the club were crazy to sanction that amount of money for an aging defender.

Purslow

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #693 on: March 25, 2012, 01:01:12 PM »
We are rather stuck with him unless he chooses to retire. No other club in the world is going to pay the salary he's getting here, or even half the salary. In days gone by he'd have left Liverpool 2 or 3 years back when his powers were already on the wane and when we already had Agger and Skrtel itching to play. He'd have had a couple of years at Blackburn or Wolves or Notts Forest before having to face reality - the reality being that no one wants old centre-backs who've lost their pace and strength.

There's a hoary old myth that says centre-backs can go on forever because they rely on positioning not pace. It's not true and there's little evidence for it. The problem with being a centre-back is that if you make a mistake there's generally no one else around to rescue it. It's a merciless position in that respect because you can't mask your decline. No amount of running off the ball from colleagues will compensate for the old centre-back's loss of pace - which is not true of, say, central midfield.

Carragher now is a soft touch for opposing forwards. They know they can beat him for speed, they know they can beat him in the air, they know they have the strength to turn him, and they know he's afraid to get tight. They also know that he's useless with the ball at his feet and that they can save precious energy by letting him have as much time on the ball as he wants. There's no point pressing him (the Wigan forwards didn't yesterday) because he'll squander possession anyway.

He had unbelievable amounts of time and space on the ball yesterday. A half decent centre-back, given that freedom, would have been Liverpool's most destructive player. Such a player would have made for those enormous gaps quickly and taken two or three opponents out before finding a Red shirt in space.

But Carra, who now hops rather than runs, couldn't capitalise. Such is his lack of faith in his own control that he has to run his studs over the ball after every stride to make sure it's not rolling away from him. Pitiful. And then when he stops he finds it unaccountably difficult to start again. We all saw him yesterday. Stood over the ball with his right leg cocked, trying to make a decision about what to do next. It looked even worse because, like I said, the Wigan lads stood off him and simply let the inevitable happen. They knew that they'd have the ball back in a second or two.

When I think of Carragher now I'm no longer even angry. That phase came and went between 2006-09. Now it's just pure resignation. Kenny has done half the job by keeping him off the pitch when Agger's fit. But he's still got the other half to do: ie keeping him off the pitch when Coates is fit.

Now's the time to do it of course. There won't be a better one to get Coates up to speed for next season. It might be an idea to get Wisdom on the bench too. Why not? These lads have to start somewhere. Meanwhile Carragher will probably do what no professional footballer used to do at Liverpool - treat the club as a nice retirement home.

I agree with a lot of that post and thinks it's well put.

But I must ask, why were you angry with Carra from 2006-2007, when he was boss and our defence was magnificent? His performances in 2006-07 were instrumental in us reaching another European Cup final, herculean efforts against the likes of Barcelona and Chelsea and the best attacking players in the world. For me he only started to wane from 2008 onwards, and it wasn't until the second half of 2009 that it became evident his best days were well behind him.
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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #694 on: March 25, 2012, 01:01:40 PM »
Purslow

Water under the bridge. We all know who offered the golden handcuffs. We all know who's wearing them. It's money we could sorely do with elsewhere. That's certainly not Kenny's fault.

But Kenny can now take him out of the team. Jeez, it'll hardly come as a shock to Carragher if he finds himself out of the first-team squad. A blow to his ego, sure, but not a blow to his sense of justice.

Offline Fuzion6

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #695 on: March 25, 2012, 01:07:40 PM »
34yr old Carragher played 3 games in 8 days when we had a full Uruguay international and young player of Copa America (ahead of the likes of Neymar) on the bench. Yet Dalglish complains of tiredness...love Dalglish and it was in his first reign that I got to love football as a kid but it's clear that with regards to Carragher, Dalglish has too much of a soft spot.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #696 on: March 25, 2012, 01:18:57 PM »
Water under the bridge. We all know who offered the golden handcuffs. We all know who's wearing them. It's money we could sorely do with elsewhere. That's certainly not Kenny's fault.

But Kenny can now take him out of the team. Jeez, it'll hardly come as a shock to Carragher if he finds himself out of the first-team squad. A blow to his ego, sure, but not a blow to his sense of justice.
We should get past the money side of this. I don't begrudge Jamie Carragher an extra year or a decent last contract. We've had enough shite bleeding money out of the club to begrudge a lad who has given his all week in week out like Carragher.

Jamie could have got a move elsewhere years ago for 10 or 15m and banked a nice signing on fee and maybe more money, he didn't. I don't begrudge him his money in the same way I'd have given Sami the extra year he wanted. They had earnt it.

However, footballing wise he is gone. He is a liability and he has succeeded in unsettling Skrtel again who has begun to make errors he has not made all season. Skrtel was outstanding all year at right centre back, why move him ?

We have the perfect opportunity now to give some football to Coates, he should play every league game we have left alternating with Skrtel and Agger so he is settled in for next season. If we want to give Kelly some games there too, fine, he should be in front of Carra too. If Jamie wants to stay in a very limited part-coaching role and maybe play some UEFA football next season then ok, but I'd be happy us paying up his contract and moving on.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #697 on: March 25, 2012, 01:21:00 PM »
If we were tired why the heck did we play Carra? Kenny is great but that "excuse" really annoyed me
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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #698 on: March 25, 2012, 01:23:18 PM »
34yr old Carragher played 3 games in 8 days when we had a full Uruguay international and young player of Copa America (ahead of the likes of Neymar) on the bench. Yet Dalglish complains of tiredness...love Dalglish and it was in his first reign that I got to love football as a kid but it's clear that with regards to Carragher, Dalglish has too much of a soft spot.
That was poor from Kenny yesterday. Sometimes you just need to say it wasn't good enough and it wasn't. Coates had a blinder on Wednesday night and should have played, simple as that no excuses.

Henderson hadn't played a full game on Wednesday so his excuse wasn't being tired. Carroll didn't play Wednesday so he could have started too. The coaching staff are supposed to be monitoring energy levels so coming out with excuses is too defensive.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #699 on: March 25, 2012, 01:36:51 PM »
Kenny's management of Carra this week, and indeed this season, has been worrying.

I can see the logic in giving him a game against Stoke. They have no pace and it was a high pressure cup game. Fair enough, Carra's performance vindicated it too. But to keep him in there against QPR and again against Wigan. It was a real head scratcher.

Coates is better then Carra. He was better then him at the beginning of the season and he's better then him now. But even looking past that, the lad needs games. He hasn't played a lot this year. And he wont get any more accustomed to the league or any better in general if he's sat on the bench.

He should be given the shirt at any given opportunity. QPR and Wigan were such occasions. 2 bottom end of the table teams. If Coates isnt going to play these games which games is he going to play?

He might now come in to the team until Agger returns, but the horse has already bolted.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #700 on: March 25, 2012, 01:40:38 PM »
We should get past the money side of this. I don't begrudge Jamie Carragher an extra year or a decent last contract. We've had enough shite bleeding money out of the club to begrudge a lad who has given his all week in week out like Carragher.

Jamie could have got a move elsewhere years ago for 10 or 15m and banked a nice signing on fee and maybe more money, he didn't. I don't begrudge him his money in the same way I'd have given Sami the extra year he wanted. They had earnt it.

However, footballing wise he is gone. He is a liability and he has succeeded in unsettling Skrtel again who has begun to make errors he has not made all season. Skrtel was outstanding all year at right centre back, why move him ?

We have the perfect opportunity now to give some football to Coates, he should play every league game we have left alternating with Skrtel and Agger so he is settled in for next season. If we want to give Kelly some games there too, fine, he should be in front of Carra too. If Jamie wants to stay in a very limited part-coaching role and maybe play some UEFA football next season then ok, but I'd be happy us paying up his contract and moving on.
We are a club not a charity. We can't give out retirement package as a reward. If he has something to offer, then sure he should be offered a chance to stay, but on less money. We can't just give 90k to a player who is 4th choice CB at best.

I'd like us to honor loyalty. But the reward should be a chance to play for the club, to retire here if they want, not insane amount of money.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #701 on: March 25, 2012, 01:44:08 PM »
We are a club not a charity. We can't give out retirement package as a reward. If he has something to offer, then sure he should be offered a chance to stay, but on less money. We can't just give 90k to a player who is 4th choice CB at best.

I'd like us to honor loyalty. But the reward should be a chance to play for the club, to retire here if they want, not insane amount of money.
The contract was a big mistake and I wouldn't have given it to him BUT that's not the big problem here. If Carra was injured and hadn't kicked a ball all season I don't think we'd be bubbling about the contract especially.

The big problem is that he is blocking off Coates from game time that we need him to get not what he is getting paid.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #702 on: March 25, 2012, 01:46:24 PM »
For the club's sake he needs to be about fourth choice when Agger is fit, but no matter what you think of him as a person he deserves some respect in here for the great shifts he has put in over the years!
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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #703 on: March 25, 2012, 01:47:57 PM »
For the club's sake he needs to be about fourth choice when Agger is fit, but no matter what you think of him as a person he deserves some respect in here for the great shifts he has put in over the years!
Of course he does. Time to move on though.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #704 on: March 25, 2012, 02:13:29 PM »
The amount of respect afforded to Carragher kind of depends on what you think exactly went on in Rafa's last few months.  To me, I think it was pretty obvious what Rafa was referring to when he talked about everything changing when Purslow came in and which "senior players" Purslow was talking to.

I might be wrong but personally I think Rafa thought Carra was working against him.  The other stories which may also be complete and utter b0llocks but were fairly widely discussed about Carra refusing to play at right back also play into that too.

I'd never rip hard into a Liverpool player, particularly one who has devoted himself to Liverpool football club and one who, for a good 2/3 years, was an absolutely outstanding player but Carra's done fcking well out of the club as well frankly.  And I can't escape a niggling feeling of resentment, and again I acknowledge I might have it completely wrong, that he helped sink the manager who represented our best chance of winning titles and the manager who made him the player he was.  I'm looking forward to his involvement in the club reducing significantly personally.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #705 on: March 25, 2012, 02:16:43 PM »
We are rather stuck with him unless he chooses to retire. No other club in the world is going to pay the salary he's getting here, or even half the salary. In days gone by he'd have left Liverpool 2 or 3 years back when his powers were already on the wane and when we already had Agger and Skrtel itching to play. He'd have had a couple of years at Blackburn or Wolves or Notts Forest before having to face reality - the reality being that no one wants old centre-backs who've lost their pace and strength.

There's a hoary old myth that says centre-backs can go on forever because they rely on positioning not pace. It's not true and there's little evidence for it. The problem with being a centre-back is that if you make a mistake there's generally no one else around to rescue it. It's a merciless position in that respect because you can't mask your decline. No amount of running off the ball from colleagues will compensate for the old centre-back's loss of pace - which is not true of, say, central midfield.

Carragher now is a soft touch for opposing forwards. They know they can beat him for speed, they know they can beat him in the air, they know they have the strength to turn him, and they know he's afraid to get tight. They also know that he's useless with the ball at his feet and that they can save precious energy by letting him have as much time on the ball as he wants. There's no point pressing him (the Wigan forwards didn't yesterday) because he'll squander possession anyway.

He had unbelievable amounts of time and space on the ball yesterday. A half decent centre-back, given that freedom, would have been Liverpool's most destructive player. Such a player would have made for those enormous gaps quickly and taken two or three opponents out before finding a Red shirt in space.

But Carra, who now hops rather than runs, couldn't capitalise. Such is his lack of faith in his own control that he has to run his studs over the ball after every stride to make sure it's not rolling away from him. Pitiful. And then when he stops he finds it unaccountably difficult to start again. We all saw him yesterday. Stood over the ball with his right leg cocked, trying to make a decision about what to do next. It looked even worse because, like I said, the Wigan lads stood off him and simply let the inevitable happen. They knew that they'd have the ball back in a second or two.

When I think of Carragher now I'm no longer even angry. That phase came and went between 2006-09. Now it's just pure resignation. Kenny has done half the job by keeping him off the pitch when Agger's fit. But he's still got the other half to do: ie keeping him off the pitch when Coates is fit.

Now's the time to do it of course. There won't be a better one to get Coates up to speed for next season. It might be an idea to get Wisdom on the bench too. Why not? These lads have to start somewhere. Meanwhile Carragher will probably do what no professional footballer used to do at Liverpool - treat the club as a nice retirement home.

Agger and Skrtel might well have been itching to play indeed but Agger has consistently been unavailable with injuries for periods in a number of recent seasons and the marked improvement in Skrtels game has came in the last 12 months maybe 18 months at a push, regardless that Skrtel was an ever present last season he was still prone to the odd error and rash/poor decision making, was he more consistently reliable than Carra at that point??.......no he wasn't.....people are suggesting Carra's decline has been for 2-3 seasons, that really is an overstatement of anyones opinion

As for your comments regarding stepping out from the back into midfield and being the most destructive player, seriously how many centre halves do u know who can have that amount of impact on a game, i havent seen many in my lifetime, we are blessed to have Agger in that respect, Wigan were never going to press the ball yesterday....even if Hansen, Beckenbauer or Krol were playing centre half, where would Spearing have run into if the centre half had brought the ball out into the middle of the park, he would have only accomodated space other players would be trying to find.......

I do agree with Coates though, in respect of the balance of the Prem season remaining, its a no brainer to give him the opportunity to play
Dirk Kuyt? If someone's sole contribution is running around alot then why not give Paula Ratcliffe a game...

Offline BazC

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #706 on: March 25, 2012, 02:20:30 PM »
We are rather stuck with him unless he chooses to retire. No other club in the world is going to pay the salary he's getting here, or even half the salary. In days gone by he'd have left Liverpool 2 or 3 years back when his powers were already on the wane and when we already had Agger and Skrtel itching to play. He'd have had a couple of years at Blackburn or Wolves or Notts Forest before having to face reality - the reality being that no one wants old centre-backs who've lost their pace and strength.

There's a hoary old myth that says centre-backs can go on forever because they rely on positioning not pace. It's not true and there's little evidence for it. The problem with being a centre-back is that if you make a mistake there's generally no one else around to rescue it. It's a merciless position in that respect because you can't mask your decline. No amount of running off the ball from colleagues will compensate for the old centre-back's loss of pace - which is not true of, say, central midfield.

Carragher now is a soft touch for opposing forwards. They know they can beat him for speed, they know they can beat him in the air, they know they have the strength to turn him, and they know he's afraid to get tight. They also know that he's useless with the ball at his feet and that they can save precious energy by letting him have as much time on the ball as he wants. There's no point pressing him (the Wigan forwards didn't yesterday) because he'll squander possession anyway.

He had unbelievable amounts of time and space on the ball yesterday. A half decent centre-back, given that freedom, would have been Liverpool's most destructive player. Such a player would have made for those enormous gaps quickly and taken two or three opponents out before finding a Red shirt in space.

But Carra, who now hops rather than runs, couldn't capitalise. Such is his lack of faith in his own control that he has to run his studs over the ball after every stride to make sure it's not rolling away from him. Pitiful. And then when he stops he finds it unaccountably difficult to start again. We all saw him yesterday. Stood over the ball with his right leg cocked, trying to make a decision about what to do next. It looked even worse because, like I said, the Wigan lads stood off him and simply let the inevitable happen. They knew that they'd have the ball back in a second or two.

When I think of Carragher now I'm no longer even angry. That phase came and went between 2006-09. Now it's just pure resignation. Kenny has done half the job by keeping him off the pitch when Agger's fit. But he's still got the other half to do: ie keeping him off the pitch when Coates is fit.

Now's the time to do it of course. There won't be a better one to get Coates up to speed for next season. It might be an idea to get Wisdom on the bench too. Why not? These lads have to start somewhere. Meanwhile Carragher will probably do what no professional footballer used to do at Liverpool - treat the club as a nice retirement home.

Well put. I think even Carra knows it to be honest. A year or so ago he was talking about how he'd look to leave if he lost his place in the 1st team. Lately he's acknowledged that he's got no place in the first team (well, at least at CB) when Agger and Skrtel are fit.

I totally agree on the Coates point as well. I guess he didn't play yesterday as he'd played midweek, however? Hopefully he'll start most of the games coming up in the league, even if Agger's fit- we'll need him for what will hopefully be 2 cup games left.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #707 on: March 25, 2012, 02:23:43 PM »
people are begrudging Carra's 90k a week, after all he's given to the club?
fuck me.
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Offline jDJ

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #708 on: March 25, 2012, 02:26:19 PM »
people are begrudging Carra's 90k a week, after all he's given to the club?
fuck me.

So, you think players' wages should be based upon what they've done in the past rather than what they contribute in the present?  Serious question.  You think Carra deserves 90k a week for being a top class centre half 4 years ago?

Offline Camarero25

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #709 on: March 25, 2012, 02:27:40 PM »
people are begrudging Carra's 90k a week, after all he's given to the club?
fuck me.

Should we give all our "legends" massive contracts then, regardless of what they add to the team?

Offline Red Crown

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #710 on: March 25, 2012, 02:30:19 PM »
people are begrudging Carra's 90k a week, after all he's given to the club?
fuck me.

I support the football club that banned Bill Shankly from it's door.  Think on that for a moment.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #711 on: March 25, 2012, 02:30:29 PM »
So, you think players' wages should be based upon what they've done in the past rather than what they contribute in the present?  Serious question.  You think Carra deserves 90k a week for being a top class centre half 4 years ago?
His wages aren't the issue. Aurelio earns 40k a week and hasn't kicked a ball for 2 years. Degen earned 38k a week and didn't kick a ball for 3 years etc etc etc.

It's Jamie's performances that are the issue and the fact that even if he was doing averagely well now, he would still be taking game time off a lad (Coates) who could be a giant for us for the next 10 years and that is wrong. It's not Jamie's fault, nobody drops themself, it's down to Kenny.

Jamie got his head down when he was left out and continued to give his all, it's up to Kenny to dish out some home truths.

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #712 on: March 25, 2012, 02:30:37 PM »
So, you think players' wages should be based upon what they've done in the past rather than what they contribute in the present?  Serious question.  You think Carra deserves 90k a week for being a top class centre half 4 years ago?


He signed a contract. Do we rip it up and tell him to do one? Good luck with that. Potential signings will be really impressed by that business model.
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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #713 on: March 25, 2012, 02:30:54 PM »
people are begrudging Carra's 90k a week, after all he's given to the club?
fuck me.

Let's put the Boys of '65 back on the pay roll.

Offline jDJ

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #714 on: March 25, 2012, 02:37:56 PM »


He signed a contract. Do we rip it up and tell him to do one? Good luck with that. Potential signings will be really impressed by that business model.

Who's saying we should rip up his contract?  just saying we shouldn't offer such good terms to players who aren't worth it.  He's earning the sort of weekly wage we could have used to attract two younger players with potential who could have improved the first team.

Offline anfieldanfield

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #715 on: March 25, 2012, 02:39:42 PM »
Who thinks he'll start away at Newcastle ?

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #716 on: March 25, 2012, 02:43:00 PM »
Should we give all our "legends" massive contracts then, regardless of what they add to the team?
is 90k a week really that massive?
granted he's not the player he once was, but his influence isn't just felt on the field.
I've heard many players over the years cite Carra as one who helped them settle in.
would Agger and Skrtel be the players they are without Carra'a influence and experience?
I'd like to see Coates get more game time too and I agree that Carra is past his best, but I'm not going to begrudge him a decent wedge before he retires.
I'm sure Kenny will show no mercy when the time comes to put him out to pasture, and rightly so, it's always been to way at LFC,
but he's not the liability and drain on resources that some people are making out.
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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #717 on: March 25, 2012, 02:43:15 PM »
I support the football club that banned Bill Shankly from it's door.  Think on that for a moment.

Do you know the reasoning behind why that was done?
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Offline Colin

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #718 on: March 25, 2012, 02:44:21 PM »
Do you know the reasoning behind why that was done?

Undermining Paisley?   Is there more to it? 

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Jamie Carragher - Sensible Chat Only
« Reply #719 on: March 25, 2012, 02:45:15 PM »
I support the football club that banned Bill Shankly from it's door.  Think on that for a moment.
they didn't ban him from the club,
they politely asked him to stop showing up at training sessions as it was distracting the players and felt it might undermine Paisley.
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