Author Topic: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?  (Read 81528 times)

Offline belfast-connection

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1240 on: April 4, 2012, 07:12:01 AM »
just once their quality , hasn't done Dortmund any harm .

welll can't be much younger than carroll & henderson

but if 'more youthful' means muniaian, eriksen, mertens, goetze etc. rawk will be loving it
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Offline SF Red

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1241 on: April 4, 2012, 07:33:29 AM »
welll can't be much younger than carroll & henderson

but if 'more youthful' means muniaian, eriksen, mertens, goetze etc. rawk will be loving it

I am pretty sure he meant no more Downing like signings.  No more players at the peak of their careers for high transfer fees.

Offline harleydanger

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1242 on: April 4, 2012, 07:34:40 AM »
When you look at the squad we've got -  Henderson, Jonjo, Carroll, Flanagan, Kelly, Coates, Sterling - all under 23, all, bar Carroll who could go either way, look like they'll make the grade. You've got the likes of Lucas and Suarez at 25 and kids like Suso and Robinson showing some promise.

That's the foundation of a squad for the next decade already on the books.

Having a group like that come through was half the reason Man U dominated in the 90's, they could concentrate their money on quality rather than plugging problems.

For me that's huge, and a reason I've got trust in what the club is doing.
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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1243 on: April 4, 2012, 07:53:21 AM »
I am pretty sure he meant no more Downing like signings.  No more players at the peak of their careers for high transfer fees.

This.
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1244 on: April 4, 2012, 07:56:35 AM »
This.

Funny thing is, it would appear we can't 'spot' a player at the peak of their career, what chance have we got 'spotting' him before he even get's to it.
Our main transfer policy this summer should have been to get Mr Carr on board.
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Offline liverpooll

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1245 on: April 4, 2012, 08:01:39 AM »
Please don't start a decent post by stating something that is controversial is "a given."  It massively undermines the rest of your post, much of which is very valid.

In my opinion most of the signings under Kenny and Comolli have been good ones. The problem has been that the highest profile one, and 3 of the most expensive, have not really performed consistently.

Really, so only 3 signings he made in a single year have performed bad. These 3 signings (+ Adam) had to be the key players and they did not not perform well at all. And really they were the reasons for our failure this season, just like Carroll was a reason for No Europe last season. And one more things those signings have performed consistently but bad instead of great.  Admit it they were mistakes and reasons for our current problems

Offline Red number seven

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1246 on: April 4, 2012, 10:41:35 AM »
Really, so only 3 signings he made in a single year have performed bad. These 3 signings (+ Adam) had to be the key players and they did not not perform well at all. And really they were the reasons for our failure this season, just like Carroll was a reason for No Europe last season. And one more things those signings have performed consistently but bad instead of great.  Admit it they were mistakes and reasons for our current problems
To be honest, I did hope they would all hit the ground running but that was probably unrealistic, as was the target of 4th or above.

Unfortunately, the very fact that you (we) expected Adam, Carroll and Henderson to be "the" key players is a huge part of the problem. Adam is a squad player at a squad player price. Henderson and Carroll bought for the longer term. Downing is, I believe, the only unequivocal mistake because of his cost and age, although I doubt Carroll will develop into a player that justifies such expense and will probably go down either as a mistake that we lost 15-20 Million on or an overpriced sub option. Adam has done ok in patches and really should not be getting th eamount of football he's needed to have. Henderson, I believe, shows really good promise and will develop into a very good pass and move central midfielder, but is very young, raw and has up and down confidence.

New signings should almost never have to be "the" key players and the fact that you believe they had to be shows how far we had to come. When was the last player United signed who was the key player in season 1?
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Offline GBF

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1247 on: April 4, 2012, 10:59:40 AM »
Just listened to Rory Smith on Talksport and he's been led to believe that this summer the focus, in terms of incoming players, will be of a more youthful look.


I hope it is not just youthful look.  The team lacks leadership on the pitch and the younger ones would not be better than what is currently on that pitch
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Offline drpepe

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1248 on: April 4, 2012, 11:01:06 AM »
To be honest, I did hope they would all hit the ground running but that was probably unrealistic, as was the target of 4th or above.

Unfortunately, the very fact that you (we) expected Adam, Carroll and Henderson to be "the" key players is a huge part of the problem. Adam is a squad player at a squad player price. Henderson and Carroll bought for the longer term. Downing is, I believe, the only unequivocal mistake because of his cost and age, although I doubt Carroll will develop into a player that justifies such expense and will probably go down either as a mistake that we lost 15-20 Million on or an overpriced sub option. Adam has done ok in patches and really should not be getting th eamount of football he's needed to have. Henderson, I believe, shows really good promise and will develop into a very good pass and move central midfielder, but is very young, raw and has up and down confidence.

New signings should almost never have to be "the" key players and the fact that you believe they had to be shows how far we had to come. When was the last player United signed who was the key player in season 1?

players being bought for big fees 'for the longer term' is not really an excuse for going backwards in the short term - especially when those 'longer term' players are being used very regularly in the first XI (up until recently)

Offline KirkVanHouten

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1249 on: April 4, 2012, 11:10:28 AM »
Thats surely not true ?

We had a massive turnover of players for small amounts under Rafa which increased our overall spend but actually didn't mean very much and their net spend is reduced enormously by the 80 million they received for Cristiano Ronaldo. They have had stability in their squad which we really haven't.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2012, 11:14:48 AM by KirkVanHouten »
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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1250 on: April 4, 2012, 11:13:12 AM »
I hope it is not just youthful look.  The team lacks leadership on the pitch and the younger ones would not be better than what is currently on that pitch

Im sure that will be a major consideration. We have plenty of that though in Gerrard, Bellamy, Carragher, Pepe and Dirk.
Although I think we see the last of Dirk in a red shirt this season.
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Offline Didi_ram

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1251 on: April 4, 2012, 11:16:34 AM »
Just listened to Rory Smith on Talksport and he's been led to believe that this summer the focus, in terms of incoming players, will be of a more youthful look.
Dont know how to interpret it.If it means getting 2 or 3 David Teixieiras,then we are in for trouble.
We need class,and although the likes of Downing etc can deffo be avoided in terms of age,if this summer if about under 21s or under 23s,then there isnt going to be much to do.
I mean seriously,can Kuyt and Maxi be replaced by youthful players?Sure,but then we dont know the age limit of youthful,so at the moment,it is debatable.
IMO,we should get upcoming quality players in the 21-25 range.If that is youthful,then fine.
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Offline Nick @ TorchTriathlon

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1252 on: April 4, 2012, 11:17:38 AM »
Im sure that will be a major consideration. We have plenty of that though in Gerrard, Bellamy, Carragher, Pepe and Dirk.
Although I think we see the last of Dirk in a red shirt this season.

Also Agger, Skrtel and Lucas when he's back. (Johnson?)

Really? The man is Mr. Final. If we get past Everton, and if we don't we're well and truly  :no ed, and he is not played in the Final I really will start to lose faith in this administration. Unless we win, then I'll be over the moon,  :champ ... 50% less likely without Kuyt, though.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2012, 11:20:04 AM by Nick @ TorchTriathlon »

Offline GBF

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1253 on: April 4, 2012, 11:25:05 AM »
Im sure that will be a major consideration. We have plenty of that though in Gerrard, Bellamy, Carragher, Pepe and Dirk.
Although I think we see the last of Dirk in a red shirt this season.

Gerrard and Bellamy are not players you can have all year round because of their injuries.  Carra - well dont want this thread to change direction.  Dirk is probably on his way out because of his lack of games.  Pepe is a keeper and we need someone in front or in the middle of the pitch to drive things.  I hope they find someone who can feature in most games and the team can rely on even when Gerrard is out or is in the team
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Offline Didi_ram

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1254 on: April 4, 2012, 11:29:55 AM »
Gerrard, Bellamy, Carragher, Pepe and Dirk.

Gerrard ageing,injury prone.
Bellamy injury prone,troubled knee.
Carra-deteriorating form,legs.
Dirk I think goes.

SO there isnt too much in terms of leadership either,mate.
I infact think that for any chance of revival next season,we need a few champions.
Rafa bought captains with a winning mentality.Maybe it's time for us to try that.
What is the United line-up?
Webb, Riley, Wiley, Clattenburg, Dean, Dowd, Atkinson, Friend, Mason, Halsey and Probert

Djimi Traore has won more European Cups than London :)

Offline montysmum

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1255 on: April 4, 2012, 11:46:22 AM »
Ugh, why do i bother. 

United are top of the league, its where we'd like to be, their squad and the strength of depth is the difference. 

We had a weak squad when our new owners took over.   

Lets remind ourselves of where we were.

Upfront we had torres, ngog, jovanovic.  That was a weak forward line.  In numbers, in ability, in attitude, in experience.
Outwide we had babel, kuyt, maxi, joe cole, el zhar.  That is a weak wide midfield.  In age, in ability.
In the middle we had poulson, raul, aqua, gerrard, shelvy, spearing, lucas.  Decent attacking midfielders but all over the age of 26. One ball winner of note.
At left back, we had konchesky, insua, aurelio, robinson.  Thats crap. Old/out of form/injured.
At right back, we had johnson, degen, kelly.  Thats poor.
At centre back, carra the greek, skrtl, agger,wilson.  Thats poor also, given that two of em are fit for the knackers yard and the other one has had a year at rangers.
In goal, pepe and the other fella.

Just about every section of the squad was in need strengthening.   

Again january rolls around, torres and bable out, suarez and carroll in.  Net spend nothing.  Squad size not strengthed.  Our weak in numbers forward line is still weak. On the plus side we now have two younger players.

Summer comes, we sell about 10 players and get about 6 in, net spend 40m. Imho we have strengthened some areas of the squad.  We now have a left back. We have a squad with a younger average age but not enough depth and certainly not enough quality in depth.   

January rolls around again.  Nobody signed.  The weak areas remain weak.

Summer 2012.  We'll see.

Sums everything up brilliantly.

"Summer 2012.  We'll see"
  That is the big question.  This Summer's transfer window will give us a much better idea on just how seriously FSG are willing to invest into the squad and how wide Comolli has spread his search for players.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2012, 11:48:02 AM by montysmum »
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Offline zuchum

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1256 on: April 4, 2012, 11:57:12 AM »
Funny thing is, it would appear we can't 'spot' a player at the peak of their career, what chance have we got 'spotting' him before he even get's to it.
Our main transfer policy this summer should have been to get Mr Carr on board.

The ability to do that is bold and underlined at the top of Mr. Comolli's CV.
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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1257 on: April 4, 2012, 12:07:16 PM »
Gerrard ageing,injury prone.
Bellamy injury prone,troubled knee.
Carra-deteriorating form,legs.
Dirk I think goes.

SO there isnt too much in terms of leadership either,mate.
I infact think that for any chance of revival next season,we need a few champions.
Rafa bought captains with a winning mentality.Maybe it's time for us to try that.

Point taken, aswell to GBF.
I see what yer saying, but in the squad and in and around the youngsters they may help.
But yeh wouldnt do us any harm to go for a Winner this summer, someone who knows what it takes to win the league.
Someone who can lead by example, in the Gary Mac mould.

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Offline killer_heels

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1258 on: April 4, 2012, 12:10:45 PM »
I hope it is not just youthful look.  The team lacks leadership on the pitch and the younger ones would not be better than what is currently on that pitch

Maybe we need fresh, young players who are not bound by the pressures that our current players are. Maybe some new young players can forge their own leadership and mentality?

Offline Red number seven

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1259 on: April 4, 2012, 01:30:09 PM »
players being bought for big fees 'for the longer term' is not really an excuse for going backwards in the short term - especially when those 'longer term' players are being used very regularly in the first XI (up until recently)
Don't think we have gone backwards in the short term. From when FSG took over, or when Comolli came or when Kenny came there have been several areas of progress.

The problem is we were a very, very long way back in Oct 2010 and had a lot more catching up to do because of years of asset stripping, infighting, loss of on and off pitch focus, near administration, some poor purchases in Rafa's latter years and a very, very poor window under Purslow/Hodgson.

I don't think any of the signings of the Comolli/Kenny era represent worse business than the money wasted in the summer of 2010 and will do nothing like the damage of the reverse gear years of Gillett and Hicks.
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Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1260 on: April 4, 2012, 08:33:09 PM »
Little bit OT: Is Thomas DiBennedetto still a partner in FSG?
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Offline Liquorice

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1261 on: April 4, 2012, 08:41:15 PM »
Point taken, aswell to GBF.
I see what yer saying, but in the squad and in and around the youngsters they may help.
But yeh wouldnt do us any harm to go for a Winner this summer, someone who knows what it takes to win the league.
Someone who can lead by example, in the Gary Mac mould.
Is Clarence Seedorf retiring or would he fancy a season in the PL yer reckon.

Offline Zeb

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1262 on: April 4, 2012, 08:58:03 PM »
Little bit OT: Is Thomas DiBennedetto still a partner in FSG?

Apparantly so.
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Offline Not A Scouser

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1263 on: April 4, 2012, 09:07:32 PM »
I think one thing to think about with regards to FSG is how investment in sport happens in the USA which will naturally affect their views on Liverpool.  Most of the sports in the USA are actually more socialist than European sports.  There is a salary cap, a limit on wages, and teams that go over that are penalized by a tax that is spread around the rest of the teams.  The teams are franchises, rather than necessarily rooted in a city.  The Wimbledon to Milton Keynes scenario happens frequently.  Therefore cities are extremely helpful and accommodating with regards to planning and stadiums.  Cities build brand new stadiums to convince teams to come to their cities.  The exceptions to the salary cap are actually baseball and NASCAR, the sports in which FSG are involved.

The thing is, almost all the teams in American sports operate at a loss.  Each year the teams spend more money than they receive.  But there is competition by really rich people to buy sports teams.  They don't all do this for fun, and most of them want to make money.  How do they make money?  By increasing the worth of the asset.  The worth of sports teams in the USA has gone up rapidly over the last few decades, until this last downturn.  Buy a team for $200 million, lose $10 million a year for a decade, sell it for $400 million and make $100 million.

FSG identified Liverpool as an under-valued asset with great potential to grow.  They bought the club for something like 300 million pounds when the club had been valued the year before at around 500 million pounds by Forbes.  They bought the club in a major recession, expected to be able to improve Anfield in capacity and attractiveness, knew that the commercial side was under-utilized, that the club was out of the Champions League but had a good chance of getting back to that point.  The plan of the owners is to make Liverpool the most attractive asset possible.

This plan may sound terribly cynical and frightening to someone who loves their club and just wants to win.  But what makes a great asset in football?  A sparkling stadium that makes money.  A club that is internationally know for success.  A club that maximizes available income.  A club with a fanatically loyal fanbase.  A club that operates within its means.  All of those things are fantastic for the club too.

FSG have said that every penny the club makes will be put back into the club.  Without the plan for increasing the asset, assuming FSG want to make money, that makes zero sense.  But if you want to increase the worth of the asset it makes complete sense.  FSG are looking at the stadium and know they MUST find a solution.  They know that they MUST get back into the Champions League pretty quickly, even if that means losing money in the short term.  They know they MUST increase commercial revenue (and are doing it).  They know they MUST control costs (and are doing it).  The know they MUST please the fanbase.

However, FSG know that it would be idiotic to sell the club in a recession, out of the Champions League, with wages out of control, and without a better stadium.  So they are in this for at least five years, at the very, very minimum, and without meeting at least most of their goals they won't make money.

FSG are going to make available to the club at least the yearly profits to improve the team.  They will invest in younger, cheaper players and remove older and more expensive players.  They will expand Anfield.  They will try everything they can to get back into the Champions league.  Henry is know for sticking to long term plans even when it seems they have gone badly, and has been very successful doing so.  I'll be very surprised if in the next 3 years there isn't a sparkling new stadium with a young, talented team, playing in the Champions League, even if it doesn't look like it now.  Because that is good business.

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1264 on: April 4, 2012, 09:18:51 PM »
Dont know how to interpret it.If it means getting 2 or 3 David Teixieiras,then we are in for trouble.

Common sense says it definitely won't be that.

Offline didi shamone

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1265 on: April 4, 2012, 09:35:22 PM »
Pretty much did what they said they would.  Re-invested money from players sold and spent some on top of that. Poor signings are not their fault. They'll have to decide in the summer whether  they trust the same people to spend their money again. How much they make available and the new stadium progress will be the acid test. But can't really complain so far.

Offline Not A Scouser

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1266 on: April 4, 2012, 09:40:43 PM »
My guess on what will happen in the summer is a striker with pace, under 25, with a good goal scoring record in an unfashionable league.  Probably a youngish defensive midfielder from a technical team.  Some number of academy players.  I think probably the majority of Liverpool fans will not have heard of any of them.  Total cost probably under 30 million.  Maxi, Aurelio, Kuyt all move on making there a reduction in overall wages.

As a result I think we'll do well in the Europa League ( a great experience for players who have never played in Europe, in a group stage +two legged knock-outs), better in the league (but not fourth), and not that great in the domestic competitions.  I bet the formation looks more like 4-2-3-1 and more youth players start appearing on the bench.

Most people will think the season will be a disappointment, but the team will become younger, with lower wages, with two players at every position with the at least the same results as this year.

I also will be surprised if some announcement isn't made over the stadium (probably a co-announcement with city authorities).

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1267 on: April 4, 2012, 09:40:52 PM »
How much does the club make per year? (thus in theory, should be our minimum transfer budget for the summer)

Offline SuperCarroll9

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1268 on: April 4, 2012, 10:03:16 PM »
We need to sign some quality players that we know can slot into the team straight away. James Milner has not been getting much game time recently at man city and he could be a great signing if we could persuade him to come to anfield. marc albrighton could be tempted to move from aston villa, would bring pace to our team. If we got those 2, along with the return of lucas i think we should easily get top 4 next season and with a bit of luck may achieve more

Offline cptrios

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1269 on: April 4, 2012, 10:22:19 PM »
When you look at the squad we've got -  Henderson, Jonjo, Carroll, Flanagan, Kelly, Coates, Sterling - all under 23, all, bar Carroll who could go either way, look like they'll make the grade. You've got the likes of Lucas and Suarez at 25 and kids like Suso and Robinson showing some promise.

That's the foundation of a squad for the next decade already on the books.

Having a group like that come through was half the reason Man U dominated in the 90's, they could concentrate their money on quality rather than plugging problems.

For me that's huge, and a reason I've got trust in what the club is doing.

1000x this. Adam, Downing, Bellamy, and Enrique can all be seen as "really good stop-gap signings." Even though they haven't turned out to be "really good," I don't think that those four players were intended to form the long-term backbone of the team - all of the real hard work is being done in the youth system. Since FSG came in, along with a continuing revamp of the youth system, we've picked up (off the top of my head - there are probably more):

McLaughlin
O'Hanlon
Ibe
Ojo
Nacho
Pelosi
Bijev
Texeira
Bueno (theoretically)

All of those players are great prospects. I know we've bought a lot of youth players over the years who haven't turned out as well as we'd have liked, and none of those above are guaranteed success...but it's still a hugely promising list.

Of course, it's all heavily tempered by the failure of our 1st-team signings, and I'm not at all trying to say that our improving youth teams excuse our league performance. But there is an undeniable long-term plan taking shape and a lot of cause to be optimistic.
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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1270 on: April 4, 2012, 11:39:36 PM »
Tony Evans off one one again on twitter. Stating that the club's a mess & that he's more worried about our long term future than our short term results.

Offline harleydanger

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1271 on: April 5, 2012, 01:26:02 AM »
I define long term as a decade. If we were 5th I don't think we'd have anywhere close to this panic. I also don't think there's any difference to our long term prospects if we finish 7th or 5th. I use this logic to call Tony Evans a panic merchant.
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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1272 on: April 5, 2012, 01:41:29 AM »
For me that's huge, and a reason I've got trust in what the club is doing.
Same, although that's also the reason why I worry about the disconnect in tactics between youths and seniors.
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Offline Captain Marko Ramius

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1273 on: April 5, 2012, 02:05:16 AM »
Daily Fail article on Kuyt leaving finished along similar lines to Smith's comments about youthful policy.

Although they mentioned two unheard of teenagers.

I'm all for signing young players but, like mentioned previously in this thread, I'd be hoping for something a lot better than League One youngsters or else we'll struggle even more next year unless a serious number of teenager players become as good as seasoned pro's leaaving.

Offline harleydanger

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1274 on: April 5, 2012, 03:36:57 AM »
Same, although that's also the reason why I worry about the disconnect in tactics between youths and seniors.

There's probably 4-5 clubs in the world that don't have that disconnect. Barca, Arsenal, Ajax et al are clubs that play a 'style' right through their ranks. The Germans started doing it about a decade ago. I hope Liverpool moves that way as well.
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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1275 on: April 5, 2012, 03:45:02 AM »
I define long term as a decade. If we were 5th I don't think we'd have anywhere close to this panic. I also don't think there's any difference to our long term prospects if we finish 7th or 5th. I use this logic to call Tony Evans a panic merchant.

Sounds as if he's got problems with FSG. Also said that Ayre's leaked e-mail which said that owners don't have to build a new stadium should be extremely concerning to us.

Hopefully as you said, he's just being a bit of a panic merchant. But he is a proper red and has links inside the club...

Offline something awful

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1276 on: April 5, 2012, 03:45:59 AM »
I define long term as a decade. If we were 5th I don't think we'd have anywhere close to this panic. I also don't think there's any difference to our long term prospects if we finish 7th or 5th. I use this logic to call Tony Evans a panic merchant.

Like the guy but very much so.
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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1277 on: April 5, 2012, 04:08:46 AM »
I really worry that we might bring few Texeira's this summer, long term it is a good move but for us to be able to integrate these youth players into the squad we need to have a good set of players playing in a system that is as close to the one being employed at the academy level. We also have to be in a good position so that pressure won't be too extra on these youngsters.

I fear we don't have those two things right now to be able to do what we want and hence the bought players will not be able to live to their potential as the likes of Pacheco & Nemeth or they'll decide to leave to a club where they'll have a better chance to shine and a one that plays a system that capitalizes on their strengths.

There is a reason why Barcelona B players easily adapt to the style of play the 1st team plays, you would bet the likes of Tello, Cuenca & Thiago are Barca players for years not some academy graduate youngsters that are in their first year of playing 1st team footie and of course while it is mainly due to Pep's presence who continues to give these youth a chance after chance, the presence of a superb squad full of quality players playing a system exactly like the one employed at the B team added to the fact that the team is currently in a good position makes it easier for the aforementioned players. Remember before these three it was Pedro and before them it was Busquets as well.

So I think while the targeting the youth idea or strategy is a sound one on paper, we need to have a good first team to back it up employing a system that is exactly the one employed at all levels of the academy, right now, unfortunately, we neither have that team nor the system that would make the players coming from the academy easily adapt to the style of the 1st team, the drop in our form also puts pressure on the youth players so it becomes harder & harder to give the likes of Suso, Coady, Sterling, Shelvey, Texeira, Silva, Adrojan, etc. a chance in our team due to various reasons and quite frankly our management team should tell FSG about this, because if we spend on youth and not improve the 1st team, it will be like wasting money really. I'm not saying abandon signing youth players, but the priority should be signing players who can play right now in the first team and it would be even better to have these two things happening in parallel (signing youth and signing first team players while having a separate budget for both)

We need first & foremost to sign players that will improve our first 11 right now, identify a system, sign players that are suited to it, get rid of the under performers and have a plan B in case things go tits up. Once everything is settled and we become assured that the team is moving forward that the focus on signing youth players should be our case really.
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Offline something awful

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1278 on: April 5, 2012, 04:27:47 AM »
Why has "focus on youth" become "buy 17 year olds"?

I just don't think we're buying 28 year "finished products" as mentioned above. Moves like buying Agger from Brondby or Alonso from Sociedad would be probably more the strategy.
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Offline bravarado7

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Re: FSG - are they living up to their own billing?
« Reply #1279 on: April 5, 2012, 04:33:31 AM »
I really worry that we might bring few Texeira's this summer, long term it is a good move but for us to be able to integrate these youth players into the squad we need to have a good set of players playing in a system that is as close to the one being employed at the academy level. We also have to be in a good position so that pressure won't be too extra on these youngsters.

I fear we don't have those two things right now to be able to do what we want and hence the bought players will not be able to live to their potential as the likes of Pacheco & Nemeth or they'll decide to leave to a club where they'll have a better chance to shine and a one that plays a system that capitalizes on their strengths.

There is a reason why Barcelona B players easily adapt to the style of play the 1st team plays, you would bet the likes of Tello, Cuenca & Thiago are Barca players for years not some academy graduate youngsters that are in their first year of playing 1st team footie and of course while it is mainly due to Pep's presence who continues to give these youth a chance after chance, the presence of a superb squad full of quality players playing a system exactly like the one employed at the B team added to the fact that the team is currently in a good position makes it easier for the aforementioned players. Remember before these three it was Pedro and before them it was Busquets as well.

So I think while the targeting the youth idea or strategy is a sound one on paper, we need to have a good first team to back it up employing a system that is exactly the one employed at all levels of the academy, right now, unfortunately, we neither have that team nor the system that would make the players coming from the academy easily adapt to the style of the 1st team, the drop in our form also puts pressure on the youth players so it becomes harder & harder to give the likes of Suso, Coady, Sterling, Shelvey, Texeira, Silva, Adrojan, etc. a chance in our team due to various reasons and quite frankly our management team should tell FSG about this, because if we spend on youth and not improve the 1st team, it will be like wasting money really. I'm not saying abandon signing youth players, but the priority should be signing players who can play right now in the first team and it would be even better to have these two things happening in parallel (signing youth and signing first team players while having a separate budget for both)

We need first & foremost to sign players that will improve our first 11 right now, identify a system, sign players that are suited to it, get rid of the under performers and have a plan B in case things go tits up. Once everything is settled and we become assured that the team is moving forward that the focus on signing youth players should be our case really.

Have to agree with most of what you said there. This season i feel its exactly what is happenning. FSG and the management decided to start from the scratch considering its a long term project here. They have now got the squad depth in numbers but dont have the quality needed in the first team. I think that was always on the cards when you think of a beginning from scratch point of view. You cannot get it right immdediately in the first season. I honestly feel we can now identify a very strong spine with Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas , Suarez and Stevie. Okay the players bought in this season havent done justice to the money we paid for them but i feel we can have them as part of the squad for variety and depth in numbers. Its the first 11 that can compliment the spine is what we need to add. We need to have a wee bit of patience here because doing from scratch was always gonna go both ways from the results point of view. At end of the season what we can make out is we need a striker, a CM/DM and an attacking midfielder who can play at the right side too.

From the philosophy and playing system point of view , i hope the management realize the importance of having a consistency across all levels in the club i.e. Youth, resveres and first team. Integration from academy to first team becomes easier in such cases and the playing system will be embedded into the DNA of the players at youth level itself. I am sure these changes will happen in the summer and by the beginning of next season we will have a clear idea of where we are heading.
 
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