Author Topic: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play  (Read 54492 times)

Offline Prof

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Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« on: March 11, 2012, 12:53:11 am »
I’ve written before in certain threads about the importance of zone 14 in the modern game.  This is the area immediately outside the penalty area, as indicated on the diagram below.



The importance of operating ‘between the lines’ isn’t a secret in football, as players who operate in ‘the hole’ have been around for a long time, and their value well recognised.  However, the tactical make-up of the best teams in the world over the last 10 years have been structured to maximise the effectiveness of zone 14 in attack, while providing the necessary defensive system to prevent  opponents operating in this zone.

At Euro 2004, over 50% of all successful passes into the penalty area came from zone 14, and evidence from the Premier League in the middle of the last decade suggested that about 75% of goals were scored either directly from zone 14, or from a final pass played from this zone.

The 4-2-3-1 system (which can also look like, or be adapted to, a 4-4-1-1, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 or 4-2-2-2) has become the formation of choice for the tactically astute manager over the last decade, particularly in big games.  There are a number of very good reasons for this:

1. Double pivot - two defensive midfielders to the layman.  With possitionally aware midfielders, you can prevent the opposition operating in zone 5. (their zone 14).  This allows a pressing team to control the most dangerous areas effectively, while still allowing the front 4 to work together and hunt in packs.

2. Progressive full backs - with a back 4 comprising of the CBs and CMs, the full backs are able to join attacks with confidence a mistake can be covered.

3. Multiple players are able to operate in zone 14 as width can be provided by the full-backs and added freedom to have runners ahead of the ball provided by the double pivot

My view is we are neglecting the importance of zone 14 both in attack and defence (zone 5).

Our opponents get a lot of time and space in this zone when they attack, particularly when Lucas and Spearing are missing.  It often looks too easy for opponents to get good possession in this zone facing our goal (Campell dropped off and turned on the ball before shooting against the post for Sunderland's goal today).

In attack, we do not operate in this zone very effectively.  We either build too much of our play down the wings or rarely have options ahead of the ball on the few occasions we do get good possession in zone 14.

As for our crossing, it is ineffective, not purely because of execution, but because of how we get the ball into crossing areas.  It isn’t just about getting bodies into the box.

Research carried out looking at the style of play of successful teams at the highest level indicates that the best teams construct attacks in an outside-inside-outside fashion, where the ball is played wide as it enters the attacking third, whereas less successful teams play up the wings into the final third before crossing the ball.



If a ball is played wide late, it could go to either wing, which means the man who then crosses it is likely to have more time and space.  It also means that the opposite full-back is less likely to be in position to cover the back post, and the centre backs less likely to be in position to clear the cross.

Van Persie’s first goal against us is a great example of how to work a crossing opportunity.  Rosicky cuts into the centre of the pitch before spreading it wide into the final third to Sagna, who had space as Enrique had moved across to pick up Walcott’s run, while Downing tracks Rosicky as he carries the ball infield.  (Incidentally, Walcott’s move off the right could be covered by a holding midfielder if we had a double pivot).



This screenshot also highlights just how much space there is between our midfield and defence.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 12:59:46 am by Prof »

Offline Zeb

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 12:57:34 am »
So zone 14 is 'between the lines' (or even 'the hole') for old farts like me who aren't old enough to have got the Radio Times' pull out to listen to the wireless? ;)

Got any sources btw? Fair few of us are duffers enough to be interested in adding to our knowledge from the source material.
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 01:01:10 am »
Brilliant post. Another reason why Lucas is so sorely missed. and Gerrard, Henderson, Suarez, whoever playing between the lines.
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Offline Ada069

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 01:06:46 am »
plus we play waaay too many sideways passes.
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Offline Prof

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2012, 01:07:41 am »
So zone 14 is 'between the lines' (or even 'the hole') for old farts like me who aren't old enough to have got the Radio Times' pull out to listen to the wireless? ;)

Got any sources btw? Fair few of us are duffers enough to be interested in adding to our knowledge from the source material.

Most of it is unpublished but well known by those in the right circles.  I don't know where any of this can be found online, but the Science and Football series of books has a lot of the research evidence for match analysis.  Amazon has a look inside feature:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Football-IV-Aron-Murphy/dp/0415241510#reader_0415241510

Offline seal75

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 05:01:53 am »
...
I bet you're Rafa in disguise  :D
Good work by the way  ;)
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2012, 06:53:44 am »
Good post by the OP. This post also shows what I have been complaining about over and ovre again - we do not play through Zone 14 or the hole position or the area immediately outside and withint he penalty area because we do not pass and move the closer we get to Zone 14 and beyond. In fact few of our players except for Kuyt and Suarez and the statuesque Carroll are even in the penalty area.  Instead and thanks to Adam and others, the ball gets sprayed to the wings and then a useless cross is floated over or a long ball is sent for the full back or flank midfielder to chase.

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 07:01:23 am »
It's all very well operating in the hole, but if there's nobody within 20 yards of you, and little in the way of intelligent running in support, it takes a special player to make a difference there. You need to build momentum and tempo to compound the damage it might do.

We've seen these players do it - it's tactical, and it's highlighted by the results with and without Lucas. In all three phases, too.

Offline subroc

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 07:06:12 am »
It's all very well operating in the hole, but if there's nobody within 20 yards of you, and little in the way of intelligent running in support, it takes a special player to make a difference there. You need to build momentum and tempo to compound the damage it might do.

We've seen these players do it - it's tactical, and it's highlighted by the results with and without Lucas. In all three phases, too.

And the lack of any players in Zone 15 and 14 and the lack of intelligent off the ball running means that Suarez had no choice but to go solo very often. This lack of movement and even presence is why there is no real pass and move int he attack phase of our team. We are pass and move until we arrive in Zone 14 when we become a `cross the ball at the tall striker' team.

Offline xavidub

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 07:14:30 am »
This also demonstrate why 442 is so ineffective as it focuses on zones 16 and 18 rather than 14. And since we dont have any quality crossers most of the time our delivery is from zones 13 and 15 which is even worse.

What is more worrying is that you seem to have identified our tactical ineptitude but KD and SC apparently havent as this has been an issue all season and we have sold players who like to play in zone 14 to bring in players who prefer to supply passes from13 and 15.

I belirve 4231 is the main formation we should be focusing on but our present squad is to lacking in game intelligence to do it.
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 07:16:29 am »
Look after the ball, and the ball will look after you.

Offline subroc

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 07:17:53 am »
This also demonstrate why 442 is so ineffective as it focuses on zones 16 and 18 rather than 14. And since we dont have any quality crossers most of the time our delivery is from zones 13 and 15 which is even worse.

What is more worrying is that you seem to have identified our tactical ineptitude but KD and SC apparently havent as this has been an issue all season and we have sold players who like to play in zone 14 to bring in players who prefer to supply passes from13 and 15.

I belirve 4231 is the main formation we should be focusing on but our present squad is to lacking in game intelligence to do it.

That is exactly why I am questioning if Dallgish and Clarke really have a plan to solve the problem at this moment? Because if they have, they haven;t shown that they have realised it yet. All the public noises that Dalglish makes are - there is no problem. We will carry on and it will get right, mate. It is just luck.

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 07:18:33 am »
It's all very well operating in the hole, but if there's nobody within 20 yards of you, and little in the way of intelligent running in support, it takes a special player to make a difference there. You need to build momentum and tempo to compound the damage it might do.

We've seen these players do it - it's tactical, and it's highlighted by the results with and without Lucas. In all three phases, too.

Thats dead on as well. No formation works with fluidity and movement and guile. We are possibly the most guileless team in the league. Almost every attack is the same in a by the numbers approach
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2012, 07:20:31 am »
Interesting post.  I think much of our problem arises from trying to get the final ball to come in from zones 16 and 18 and to get the ball up to zone 16 and 18 we rely on interplay between more than two and at times three players and that leaves no one in zone 17.  Why do I think this happens ?  Well because of our lack of quality.  All over the pitch defence, Lucas, Gerrard and Suarez apart.  Gerrard isn't playing off the striker these days as well and when you take only our attacking players into consideration we end up with Suarez as the only one who truly is Liverpool calibre.  We struggle to get possession high up the pitch anymore.  We struggle to get to a stage where our defence can get high up the pitch and recycle every hoof because our attack is incapable of pressurising opponents into staying in their territory.  Instead they sit back and watch us play in front of them and then hit us on the break.  Has happened all season.
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Offline subroc

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2012, 07:33:46 am »
Interesting post.  I think much of our problem arises from trying to get the final ball to come in from zones 16 and 18 and to get the ball up to zone 16 and 18 we rely on interplay between more than two and at times three players and that leaves no one in zone 17.  Why do I think this happens ?  Well because of our lack of quality.  All over the pitch defence, Lucas, Gerrard and Suarez apart.  Gerrard isn't playing off the striker these days as well and when you take only our attacking players into consideration we end up with Suarez as the only one who truly is Liverpool calibre.  We struggle to get possession high up the pitch anymore.  We struggle to get to a stage where our defence can get high up the pitch and recycle every hoof because our attack is incapable of pressurising opponents into staying in their territory.  Instead they sit back and watch us play in front of them and then hit us on the break.  Has happened all season.

Not lack of quality - a different footballing culture is the answer why they do not move as much and in the mmanner they need to move. Carroll, Adam and Downing were not brought up to pass and move. Henderson can in time play like that, but needs to be shown how. Meireles and Squilani had the right mindset and playing technique but they were offloaded.

Offline Prof

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2012, 07:34:11 am »
It's all very well operating in the hole, but if there's nobody within 20 yards of you, and little in the way of intelligent running in support, it takes a special player to make a difference there. You need to build momentum and tempo to compound the damage it might do.

We've seen these players do it - it's tactical, and it's highlighted by the results with and without Lucas. In all three phases, too.

One thing we are seeing more of (at least we were in the Arsenal game) is players appearing where they might not be expected.  This is good from an attacking unpredictability point of view, but as we have no base to control the midfield area, we are often countered on very easily.  Wenger said after the Arsenal game that he knew they would have opportunities to counter attack (when it was 1-1) as we needed a win.  What he didn't say was how easy it was for Arsenal to work the ball for the first goal.  It wasn't a case of a bad bounce, or catching us on the break.  It was too easy for them, and we were 1-0 up at the time.

Pragmatism is no bad thing when you are winning a big game.  We've dropped far too many points from winning positions because we don't know when to keep it tight.

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2012, 07:39:13 am »
Not lack of quality - a different footballing culture is the answer why they do not move as much and in the mmanner they need to move. Carroll, Adam and Downing were not brought up to pass and move. Henderson can in time play like that, but needs to be shown how. Meireles and Squilani had the right mindset and playing technique but they were offloaded.

That depends on how you perceive quality.  For me intelligent movement is an integral part of a player's make up and anyone lacking intelligent movement does lack quality.  It makes them remarkably less effective and as a result an inferior player.  Besides I think they aren't all that even with the ball at their feet.  Downing, Adam etc are decent at best even with the ball at their feet. And decent isn't going to cut it at Liverpool if we want to win stuff.
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Offline El Ninos Black Eye

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2012, 10:48:19 am »
What about Zone 5 when where kicking the other way?
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2012, 10:56:40 am »
When the ball is in zone 17, our players are too often zoned out.
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2012, 11:02:40 am »
The best players in the world, do the most damage when they don't have the ball.

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2012, 11:04:38 am »
plus we play waaay too many sideways passes.

As opposed to what? passing to a player with no support and losing possession. Hate the he passes the ball sideways and back argument because it says nothing.
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2012, 11:06:35 am »
When the ball is in zone 17, our players are too often zoned out.
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2012, 11:12:37 am »
Great thread this. Someone who really seems to know the game.
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2012, 11:14:28 am »
That is exactly why I am questioning if Dallgish and Clarke really have a plan to solve the problem at this moment? Because if they have, they haven;t shown that they have realised it yet. All the public noises that Dalglish makes are - there is no problem. We will carry on and it will get right, mate. It is just luck.

The irony is that in English Football Kenny was a genius at operating in zone 14 and his 87-88 side with Beardsley playing in zone 14 and Whelan and McMahon playing as a double pivot stopped the opposition playing there. The fly in the ointment is how do you play a 4-2-3-1 if Gerrard doesn't want to play in the three and doesn't want to play in a disciplined double pivot.
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Offline joe ®

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2012, 11:22:16 am »
The irony is that in English Football Kenny was a genius at operating in zone 14 and his 87-88 side with Beardsley playing in zone 14 and Whelan and McMahon playing as a double pivot stopped the opposition playing there. The fly in the ointment is how do you play a 4-2-3-1 if Gerrard doesn't want to play in the three and doesn't want to play in a disciplined double pivot.

I think that regardless of a player's stature at a club, if he's not prepared to knuckle down and do the best job he can for the team, in whatever role the manager decides he's best suited for, he should be swiftly fucked off.

I also reckon Gerrard isn't that type of player though.

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2012, 11:30:19 am »
That depends on how you perceive quality.  For me intelligent movement is an integral part of a player's make up and anyone lacking intelligent movement does lack quality.  It makes them remarkably less effective and as a result an inferior player.  Besides I think they aren't all that even with the ball at their feet.  Downing, Adam etc are decent at best even with the ball at their feet. And decent isn't going to cut it at Liverpool if we want to win stuff.
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2012, 11:45:32 am »
I think that regardless of a player's stature at a club, if he's not prepared to knuckle down and do the best job he can for the team, in whatever role the manager decides he's best suited for, he should be swiftly fucked off.

I also reckon Gerrard isn't that type of player though.
right on, Gerrard as good a player as he is, his job is to fit into the system. Even more so now that he is approaching his twlight years and and injury riddled.

For me, Gerrard would work best operating the right side of a fluid three.

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2012, 11:53:22 am »
Always enjoy reading your posts Prof. Very good analysis of our play and I have to say I have lost count the amount of times i've sat in the Kop this year and screamed at players because there is an opposition player just floating inbetween our midfield and back 4 before seeing someone flick a ball to the guy with all the space in the world to pick out a killer ball or take a 20 yrd shot right in front of our goal. I think everyone can count at least 10 occassions where Charlie Adam has gave away a dangerous freekick because we end up the wrong side of the attacker in exactly this situation and he just bundles into the attaker from behind??

You have indicated exactly why we have one of the worst scroring records in the PL. Witout playing in zone 14 and having players running off them etc, its no wonder we are struggling.

Great post mate
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2012, 11:57:09 am »
right on, Gerrard as good a player as he is, his job is to fit into the system. Even more so now that he is approaching his twlight years and and injury riddled.

For me, Gerrard would work best operating the right side of a fluid three.

But, but, but....thats where Rafa played him and we were told that SG's best position was in the CM and Rafa was mad to play him on the right because SG is the best CM in the world?

Im soooooo confused  ;D
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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2012, 12:00:08 pm »
We played a lot better towards the end of last season because we executed better from zone 14. Then the management screwed things up by buying players like Carroll (ok, he was last season's buy), Adam and Downing, who have no idea playing intelligently and moving the ball well in zone 14. Can't really fault Downing because he only operates in zones 16 and 18. For Adam, when he gets the ball, all he does is make the beeline for the goal without distributing the ball when he gets to the end of zone 14. He overplays it by trying to run at defences. We need someone who can spread the ball out again between zones 14 and 17. Mancs do this too.

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2012, 12:05:16 pm »
really good post mate- thanks :)

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2012, 12:08:08 pm »
Where's Alberto when you need him!!

Offline SkinHimHesShite

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2012, 12:09:03 pm »
We played a lot better towards the end of last season because we executed better from zone 14. Then the management screwed things up by buying players like Carroll (ok, he was last season's buy), Adam and Downing, who have no idea playing intelligently and moving the ball well in zone 14. Can't really fault Downing because he only operates in zones 16 and 18. For Adam, when he gets the ball, all he does is make the beeline for the goal without distributing the ball when he gets to the end of zone 14. He overplays it by trying to run at defences. We need someone who can spread the ball out again between zones 14 and 17. Mancs do this too.

don't forget adam is also one of the worst players in the history of liverpool for defending zone 5.

As opposed to what? passing to a player with no support and losing possession. Hate the he passes the ball sideways and back argument because it says nothing.

agree with this. a backwards pass is often more attacking than a forward pass- a combination of backwards, sideways and forward passes creates the space and time for an incisive pass to make a goal. people really do my head in with the sideways pass thing, really shows them up.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 12:13:24 pm by SkinHimHesShite »

Offline Banquo's Ghost

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2012, 12:13:42 pm »
Thank you Prof, for a thoughtful and analytical post that helps us focus on the football rather than the emotion.

I think the analysis of utilising a 4-2-3-1 base formation and its effectiveness is quite correct. However, I think the formation's biggest flaw is that it requires high quality in almost every position - the margin for error is compounded because the effectiveness in control and aggression at goal it brings demands that everyone does their job consistently and intelligently. Now, one can argue that all winning teams and formations need everyone to be at their best (of course), but the 4-2-3-1 approach brings rewards because of the higher risk (than that of a 4-4-2, for example, which is inherently stable and defensive, prone to fossilisation into static lines and hoofing when things go pear-shaped).

One wonders how much effect Torres' late transfer really had. Before that point, there were signs Kenny may have been thinking along the higher risk/reward strategy - buying Suarez to fill the right side for example. Gerrard surely is the right man for the centre of the 3 when playing alongside Torres. (I'm not sure why some posters are saying he doesn't want to be there - surely he does what he is instructed, like everyone else?) For all Downing's faults now known, he was a pretty decent shout for the left of the 3 surely?

Where this comes crashing to earth is the necessity for the DM to be rock solid and capable of driving play positively and comfortably from deep. Lucas has been exactly that, and I don't think we can underestimate the disaster to our season that losing him has been. Without such a foundation, the flexibility and aggression of the 4-2-3-1 falls into panic, especially if we are not pressing the zones effectively and with economy of effort (i.e. not just running at the ball, but pressuring space). I can see Kenny's original thinking to have Henderson in the 2 alongside Lucas.

However, for reasons we may never understand (certainly not for several years any rate) we reacted to Torres' leaving by buying Andy, clearly unsuited to the 1 role. By taking that decision, we committed ourselves to a 4-4-2 based approach, and started to backfill towards that. Maybe this is because Kenny feels safer in that milieu (which would be worrying) or because we simply couldn't attract the exceptional talents needed to make a 4-2-3-1 work and decided it was better to consolidate in safety and familiarity for the next couple of years whilst getting back into the CL. Losing Lucas forced us into the chopping and changing we see now.

Others may well disagree, but this gives me some explanation of where we are. I think we are all agreed that had we won three or four of the eminently winnable home games we've drawn, the atmosphere at the club, and fourth place, would be golden. Had we not lost Lucas at such a critical time, we would have won more matches (and certainly lost fewer). Again, our world would be wholly different. Whether we would still have ended up with Adam had Torres' leaving not thrown our plans (and then Meireles compounding this) is difficult to know, but we most certainly wouldn't have bought Carroll.

I think Torres threw us badly, more so than we will understand, and we took refuge in safety first. In hindsight, that may prove to be a big mistake, but hindsight is a very lovely thing to we who don't live or die by owning the decisions in real time. The real question remains: is it fixable? We still cannot attract the high calibre players we need, and I fear that should we continue to decline into 7th or lower, Suarez and Reina will leave. If that happens, we have to spend time and effort (money will come in for both, so that's less of a consideration) replacing them rather than bringing in additional exceptional talent.

Obviously, these are just my own musings. It seems clear though, it's going to be a long haul back to the top. I would love us to be brave and use more youngsters and try a positive, high tempo, aggressive 4-2-3-1 for the rest of the season. But whilst we may win a couple of good games and well, we will also risk getting slaughtered with some 4-0s or worse. In an atmosphere where fans are calling for the King's head already, one can entirely understand why backalong, we went for safety and reliability first. Which is a shame.

Be humble, for you are made of earth. Be noble, for you are made of stars.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2012, 01:32:03 pm »
Good OP. There was another piece about zone 5 and 14 a while ago. Since then I have kept an eye on it. Get the ball in those zones and it's almost always dangerous. And one thing I have seen is that space between our midfield and defence. That picture may be just a snapshot, but IMO it often represents how we play. Get Lucas or Spearing in and we tend to look better in defence. Adam vs Cardiff made a huge error for the first goal when he allowed lots of space behind him. It was the same vs Bolton. Has been a problem all season, despite us keeping things tight at the back. Perhaps unfair on our CMs, but I think the main reason for that tight defence is our defenders. The protection could be better.

The trouble at the other end is, we don't get those penetrating runs from our CMs when we attack. And if our CMs don't get into zone 14 and we lock a couple of wingers to the flanks it puts a huge burden on our strikers. We lose zone 14 by not even showing up and then we lose out on goalscoring opportunities.

This is why Maxi, who makes those runs and operates in zone 14, does so much good for us when he plays. He gets there. Kuyt is the same. If we decide to play 4-1-4-1/4-3-3, we must get those attacking runs from our CMs.

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Offline LondonRedMan

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2012, 01:43:54 pm »
Insightful OP.

I was thinking about us needing a player like Garcia, Yossi et to add spark and a player who can take advantage of the hole whilst threading balls through to our strikers. I think our problem is that of personnel. I think Suarez could do well in that role but he would need a mobile striker making darting runs in front of him.

Positive thing is, it only takes one transfer and/or a bit of tweaking to rectify the problem.

Offline Prof

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2012, 01:55:26 pm »


I think the 4-2-3-1 is effective because it doesn't require perfection in every position.  It requires balance across the team.

Sissoko was a limited player, but was fantastic for us as he provided the energy and tanacity in the midfield area, as a perfect foil for the quality and passing of Alonso.  They both allowed Gerrard to drive forward when he wanted to as they covered the defence for him.

Similarly, Kuyt is far from a perfect player, but he provided a consistent work rate and movement to the attack, while also being able to help balance the defensive side of the team.

I think 4-4-2 as a general rule (it has its own variences so it isn't steadfast) requires players to offer more things.  A CM in an orthodox 4-4-2 is asked to do everything, whereas in 4-2-3-1 they can have a speciality that adds to the whole balance.

An effective team is when the team is greater than the sum of their collective parts.  It is the manager's job to add the difference.  This is more important now than ever, as we are never going to be able to match the depth of playing staff at dome of our rivals.

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2012, 01:57:07 pm »
One thing we are seeing more of (at least we were in the Arsenal game) is players appearing where they might not be expected.  This is good from an attacking unpredictability point of view, but as we have no base to control the midfield area, we are often countered on very easily.  Wenger said after the Arsenal game that he knew they would have opportunities to counter attack (when it was 1-1) as we needed a win.  What he didn't say was how easy it was for Arsenal to work the ball for the first goal.  It wasn't a case of a bad bounce, or catching us on the break.  It was too easy for them, and we were 1-0 up at the time.

Pragmatism is no bad thing when you are winning a big game.  We've dropped far too many points from winning positions because we don't know when to keep it tight.

I don't think we know how to keep it tight either.

We've had the initiative in countless games this season and dropped off with no game plan.

Cracking OP by the way


Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2012, 01:59:30 pm »
I think the 4-2-3-1 is effective because it doesn't require perfection in every position.  It requires balance across the team.

Sissoko was a limited player, but was fantastic for us as he provided the energy and tanacity in the midfield area, as a perfect foil for the quality and passing of Alonso.  They both allowed Gerrard to drive forward when he wanted to as they covered the defence for him.

Similarly, Kuyt is far from a perfect player, but he provided a consistent work rate and movement to the attack, while also being able to help balance the defensive side of the team.

I think 4-4-2 as a general rule (it has its own variences so it isn't steadfast) requires players to offer more things.  A CM in an orthodox 4-4-2 is asked to do everything, whereas in 4-2-3-1 they can have a speciality that adds to the whole balance.

An effective team is when the team is greater than the sum of their collective parts.  It is the manager's job to add the difference.  This is more important now than ever, as we are never going to be able to match the depth of playing staff at dome of our rivals.

Very well made point Prof.  Never looked at it that way before

Offline Rococo

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Re: Zone 14 and our attacking patterns of play
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2012, 02:03:43 pm »
Interesting.

I think this slightly misses the importance of the pace of the attack.  When we have the ball in zone 14, we seem ponderous and the opposition defence has time to organise itself. If you can move more swiftly through zone 14 then the attack is more likely to result in a goal opportunity.

Secondly, I've felt that in terms of defending zone 14, Jay is far more effective when Adam isn't alongside him.  This isn't directly a criticism of Adam, more an observation that Jay seems to 'own' zone 14 when it becomes his main duty and isn't shared.