Author Topic: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!  (Read 10042 times)

Offline Junkle

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #160 on: March 9, 2012, 01:17:02 PM »
...Is the right answer.
So he didn't get his pay rise...
So we were buying players for his position...
So what?

Go ply yer trade at the plastics club and MAYBE get a winners medal for something.
Or stay with us, with a man who has won everything possible in the domestic game, who knows how to manage our club, who will be here for building us into the future, who will be taking us places...

Or go to them lot and keep having to chop-and-change how you are played and how you play because you change managers every 5 mins, have no stability and no winners medals for a long time...

He's been, he's gone, it's done.

His leaving has not been the defining moment this season. Neither has us winning the Carling Cup (although that has been a fun moment and hopefully will help to define in our players mentality how we  can win and stay winners...)
In a season that is not yet finished,these types of statements need to be kept in check till we have finished playing.

WE NEED A STRIKEFORCE THAT CAN SCORE!!!
That would be my defining statement of our season so far.



This is what many people who want to stop the debates about our situation spout as if they are the only ones who support Kenny. He is a man and he makes mistakes and he will make them again so people have to get used to that. Because we love and respect him we are going to tell him when he does.
Ashley Williams: "I wanted to hit Luis Suarez". "Having played against him twice now I just have to say that I don't like the bloke. Basically I have no time for the guy at all." LFC target? I hope not. I would rather deal with Suarez on daily basis than bad dressing room.

Offline TSC

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #161 on: March 9, 2012, 09:25:53 PM »
Because we love and respect him we are going to tell him when he does.

Hate to burst yer bubble, but spouting on an internet forum isn't telling Kenny anything.  It's just a load of net warriors letting off steam.  Kenny's prob more concerned with Sunderland than reading tosh on here

Offline Scouse-Lad-Lfc

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #162 on: March 9, 2012, 09:53:03 PM »
I was surprised at how the majority of fans didnt seem arsed when we sold Raul, he was at the center of everything good we achieved on the pitch 12 months earlier, he had a fantastic relationship on and off the pitch with Suarez, Lucas and Maxi and I thought he would have been an integral part of our top four challenge this season.

The only criticism I ever heard of Raul was ''he doesnt tackle'' which is a pretty lame reason to let a quality player go, if thats all anyone cared about then lets have a midfield of Cattermole an Palacios but the main reason letting Meireles go looks like a mistake is down to the fact we bought in player who is inferior in every department, a player who has only ever played top flight football for one season and in that season had no defensive obligations and could do pretty much what ever wanted.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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Offline TSC

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #163 on: March 9, 2012, 10:01:56 PM »
I was surprised at how the majority of fans didnt seem arsed when we sold Raul, he was at the center of everything good we achieved on the pitch 12 months earlier, he had a fantastic relationship on and off the pitch with Suarez, Lucas and Maxi and I thought he would have been an integral part of our top four challenge this season.

The only criticism I ever heard of Raul was ''he doesnt tackle'' which is a pretty lame reason to let a quality player go, if thats all anyone cared about then lets have a midfield of Cattermole an Palacios but the main reason letting Meireles go looks like a mistake is down to the fact we bought in player who is inferior in every department, a player who has only ever played top flight football for one season and in that season had no defensive obligations and could do pretty much what ever wanted.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

He handed in a transfer request, and he wasn't great anyway, plus he's been dire at Chelsea.  Not as if we lost messi.  Mediocre bit part players assume superstar status on here many moons after they've fucked off. 

Offline Scouse-Lad-Lfc

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #164 on: March 9, 2012, 10:19:08 PM »
He handed in a transfer request, and he wasn't great anyway, plus he's been dire at Chelsea.  Not as if we lost messi.  Mediocre bit part players assume superstar status on here many moons after they've fucked off.

If I was Meireles and the club went back on broken promises about an improved contract, then signed an inferior player in Adam and played him ahead of me then Chelsea come calling? I'd be off too.

Oh and saying he was a mediocre is laughable.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #165 on: March 9, 2012, 10:24:31 PM »
Hate to burst yer bubble, but spouting on an internet forum isn't telling Kenny anything.  It's just a load of net warriors letting off steam.  Kenny's prob more concerned with Sunderland than reading tosh on here

I would raise the ante a shade more than 'prob' mate... how about 'deffo'?
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Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #166 on: March 9, 2012, 10:42:27 PM »
1. It is probably best to pick defining moments at the end of the season.
2. In a season so packed with incident as this one, a season in which we have already won our first trophy for six years to choose the early season departure of a player as the defining moment is bizarre.
3. It may be less bizarre had said player been a long term star for us or indeed if he had gone on to set the division alight rather than playing a rather bit part role for a team that has struggled.
4. Even taking into account all the above then the whole premise of the thread is mired so deeply in conjecture that it is scarcely credible.
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Online Brentie

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #167 on: March 9, 2012, 10:46:08 PM »
The problem wasnt selling Raul.

It was buying a player like Jordan Henderson to replace Raul.

If we bought a better version of Meireles I'd have had no issue with it, but instead we bought an inferior player who, perhaps, maybe, potentialy, some time in the future, could possibly, but not surely, become better.

You know what the killer is?

Rauk Meireles has played less than 40 minutes of league football for Liverpool this season.

And has got as many assists as Jordan Henderson and one less goal.

Joke decision.
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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #168 on: March 9, 2012, 10:48:21 PM »
All the misses. The Horror, the horror......
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Offline Voltaire

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #169 on: March 9, 2012, 10:52:25 PM »
I'd say not playing Maxi enough has had a far, far greater impact on our season than selling the
'cool as fuck' but massively overrated raul.
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Offline rossipersiempre

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #170 on: March 9, 2012, 10:56:32 PM »
The problem wasnt selling Raul.

It was buying a player like Jordan Henderson to replace Raul.

If we bought a better version of Meireles I'd have had no issue with it, but instead we bought an inferior player who, perhaps, maybe, potentialy, some time in the future, could possibly, but not surely, become better.

You know what the killer is?

Rauk Meireles has played less than 40 minutes of league football for Liverpool this season.

And has got as many assists as Jordan Henderson and one less goal.

Joke decision.
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Offline slaphead

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #171 on: March 9, 2012, 10:56:45 PM »
Mediocre bit part players assume superstar status on here many moons after they've fucked off. 

Except Aquilani
He's got God like status  ;)

Offline rossipersiempre

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #172 on: March 9, 2012, 10:58:05 PM »
I'd say not playing Maxi enough has had a far, far greater impact on our season than selling the
'cool as fuck' but massively overrated raul.
I still can't fathom this out. Is it really just a "not one for the future (and he's not from Bootle) so not playing him" thing?
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Offline rossipersiempre

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #173 on: March 9, 2012, 10:59:08 PM »
Except Aquilani
He's got God like status  ;)
He said mediocre. Alberto may be many things to many people, but mediocre isn't one of them.
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Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #174 on: March 9, 2012, 11:29:00 PM »
Nice opening post and i agree with alot of it. I do disagree with your opinion on Keane but thats another matter altogether.

The thing i hate about so many football fans is that players are made villains in an instant even in the most ridiculous of circumstances. Any bad points are so often brushed under the carpet and excuses are made to paper over the excuses before them. Any little thing is used as some kind of defensive mechanism against any questionable decision made by the club or the manager any whoever disagrees is labelled a bad fan or told to go support someone else.

Its funny how whenever people mention Rauls contribution in his time with us and how that could have made a difference to us this season its met with how he is doing at chelsea. I never understand this way of thinking because we are not, never have been and never will be chelsea football club, how he is doing for them has zero impact on how well he would have performed for us. Its a different team, different surroundings, a different manager as well as so many other things. Torres was lethal for us and yet he's the polar opposite for chelsea, would this have been the same had he remained at liverpool ? Highly unlikely.

I was annoyed by the Meireles situation but found it hard to be mad at him, seeing it from his perspective rather than sitting with my rose tinted glasses firmly planted upon the bridge of my nose, he was promised a payrise which he didn't get, was out of the team after an impressive first season then was named constantly as one of those we were willing to let go. I dont think i'll ever understand how when a player is reportedly (truthfully or not) offered around to other clubs its completely fine and when he opts to go after this he's a c*nt/traitor. I say truthfully or not because this is what people are going from, the reports as opposed to actually knowing whats happening behind the scenes. He did very little wrong for me, he seemed unwanted here and left, i wasnt happy he went to a rival team atall, that got to me but i didn't blame him alone for him leaving.

He was a good player, not as good as some talk asif he is but he wasn't anywhere near as poor as some like to make out. Its incredible one of his main attributes is something we are crying out for this season and yet people continue to claim he would make zero difference. I do wonder if people genuinly believe this kind of thing or if they are just going with whatever decision is made by the club. In my opinion he would have been good to have in the team/squad this season, i've lost count of the amount of times the ball has dropped into an area where we needed a runner at the edge of the box and not a single player has made a run into that position.

I feel we made a mistake with Meireles, he's the kind of player we need in the side or there to come off the bench. Say what you will about him at chelsea but as i said before thats chelsea...not liverpool. Looking at some of the options we have to come on and change the game and thinking about the attacking approach raul makes, i know who i feel would make a bigger impact.

Offline stjohns

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #175 on: March 9, 2012, 11:39:33 PM »
Selling the shite Keane wasn't the problem in 2008/9. Not replacing him was.

Just as selling Meireles in 2011 isn't the problem now. No, that would be letting Aquilani leave on loan, and playing Charlie Adam every single fucking week.

Spot on.
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Offline Renato

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #176 on: March 10, 2012, 11:29:58 AM »
Spot on.
Aquilani-world class.
Meireles-world class.

:lmao

Online smicer07

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #177 on: March 10, 2012, 11:33:36 AM »
Meireles has been shit for Chelsea and handed in a transfer request at Liverpool. That's all we need to know, really.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #178 on: March 10, 2012, 11:41:48 AM »
Shame that we need to rewrite raul's season with us. Could he get into our current first 11? Imo yes. Did he score goals for us, get into the box, and get assists? Again the answer is yes.

He had a different role to what he currently has at chelsea.

Could he do a job for us? to be honest the answer is who couldn't.

Offline Dirk18Kuyt

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #179 on: March 10, 2012, 11:45:53 AM »
He handed in a transfer request, but who blames him?

He was immediately dropped for Adam and Henderson (What a masterstroke that was), and we wouldn't increase his wages as promised.

Offline Shanks1965

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #180 on: March 10, 2012, 04:45:47 PM »
Meireles has been shit for Chelsea and handed in a transfer request at Liverpool. That's all we need to know, really.
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Offline absoluttchamp

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #181 on: March 10, 2012, 04:51:28 PM »
We are a mid-table team... Can I push the alarm-button?

Offline koptommy93

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #182 on: March 10, 2012, 04:53:37 PM »
I don't miss Meireles he was no Alonso or Masch.
he's better than what we put out there at the minute
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Offline Das Liverpool

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #183 on: March 10, 2012, 04:58:43 PM »
This has been our problem all season, a lack of cohesion between midfield and attack. A player LIKE Meireles or Aquilani would improve our team so much, Adam is that sort of player but is simply not good enough, he doesn't seem to have the speed of thought to hack it. Gerrard could play that position but hasn't been played there, even though I think we can all agree it's his best position.

Selling Meireles and loaning out Aquilani was not the problem, not sufficiently replacing them was. Today there was a complete disconnect between our midfield and attack, to the point where we couldn't keep possession beyond 2 or 3 passes. Easily the worst it's been all season. In the summer, we need to buy a new attacking midfielder or get Aquilani back.

Online Kochevnik

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #184 on: March 10, 2012, 05:00:05 PM »
Meireles has nothing to do with our problems at the moment.

Honestly, for me, the only thing I like about the idea of having Meireles is that Charlie Adam would play less.  He's OK, is Raul, but he's not going to be the difference in us finishing fourth or not.
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Offline leivapool

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #185 on: March 10, 2012, 05:01:29 PM »
As someone said in the match thread:

Anyone who doesn't think we need another top qaulity CM needs their head testing........
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Offline Rohit

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #186 on: March 10, 2012, 05:03:27 PM »
As someone said in the match thread:

Anyone who doesn't think we need another top qaulity CM needs their head testing........

Don't worry our main problem lies elsewhere apparently.

Offline Zelnaga

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #187 on: March 10, 2012, 05:05:26 PM »
How we could have done with him today.

 
Meireles has been shit for Chelsea and handed in a transfer request at Liverpool. That's all we need to know, really.

Doesnt mean hed been shit for us still. He was good for us, and you dont know sh*t that happened in the background. None of us do. Obviously if we sell players who aint committed to the cause despite their neccassity, its is going to help the club move forward ..... I mean look at Spurs and Modric .... oh wait.

Offline aggerdoo

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #188 on: March 10, 2012, 05:05:29 PM »
last season when kenny came it didn't actually matter who was on the pitch you knew what sort of performance you was going to get. this season is the same story but at the other end of the football scale. miereles's departure is a part of that and his timing couldn't have been worse. i thought we'd replace him in january to be honest
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Offline Melbred

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #189 on: March 10, 2012, 05:11:19 PM »
Defining point?

Spending 100m on the likes of Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing, and expecting them to lead us to glory.

Offline Hazell

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #190 on: March 10, 2012, 05:11:45 PM »
As someone said in the match thread:

Anyone who doesn't think we need another top qaulity CM needs their head testing........

Think that was clear at the start of the season. Our transfers suggested a more direct style, with the additions of Adam, Downing and Carroll and they so far haven't fully worked. CM is a vital area and we haven't been able to get a grip and dominate games consistently and as a result we've looked disjointed and inconsistent - a lack of someone who can help us retain the ball, particularly when we're losing and this has become more apparent in Lucas' absence and it was apparent again today. It's not a huge surprise, given or transfers and it's a wildly different idea and setup to what I'd hoped we'd get this season BUT we should give Kenny the time to figure out the problems and anyone calling for Rafa is out of order (I know not you) - this lack of patience is what cost us in recent years. We just need to be a bit more patient.
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Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #191 on: March 10, 2012, 05:14:29 PM »
i think deep down we all really knew when lucas did his knee that was the turning point.

no one comes close in the midfield to what he does and very few come close in the league
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Offline Hyypia headers

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #192 on: March 10, 2012, 05:16:09 PM »
When we lost Lucas we lost the only midfielder at the club who can dominate a game from the centre. We have always had a player that made things go through him, someone to steer the boat. Right now, the boat is just floating around.
Let me tell you about the times when tackling was allowed

Offline cornelius

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #193 on: March 10, 2012, 05:18:44 PM »
We are a mid-table team... Can I push the alarm-button?
Sunderland was always going to be a tough place to win at but we put extra pressure on today's result ourselves with our recent lacklustre league form. This summer has now become huge. Even winning the FA cup might not be enough to convince certain players to stay or to join. I mean we have to face facts, in the past we've been worried players might leave because we're not certain of being in the top 4 but right at this moment in time we're not even capable or certain of challenging for 4th place. Anyone not worried has got their head well and truly in the sand because all those teams above us aren't going to stand still in the summer.  :(

Offline liverpooll

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #194 on: March 10, 2012, 05:18:50 PM »
Defining point?

Spending 100m on the likes of Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing, and expecting them to lead us to glory.

Correct, and actually forget glory, but performing well has been too hard for those lot.

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #195 on: March 10, 2012, 07:54:58 PM »
i think deep down we all really knew when lucas did his knee that was the turning point.

no one comes close in the midfield to what he does and very few come close in the league

Some had hope for the january window, just feels like the same thing over and over again with us. Its like we are delivered an opportunity to change something and turn our noses up at it

Offline USC19Babel

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #196 on: March 10, 2012, 07:58:14 PM »
Sunderland was always going to be a tough place to win at but we put extra pressure on today's result ourselves with our recent lacklustre league form. This summer has now become huge. Even winning the FA cup might not be enough to convince certain players to stay or to join. I mean we have to face facts, in the past we've been worried players might leave because we're not certain of being in the top 4 but right at this moment in time we're not even capable or certain of challenging for 4th place. Anyone not worried has got their head well and truly in the sand because all those teams above us aren't going to stand still in the summer.  :(

Was it really? Chelsea won there, Arsenal won there, and Spurs have yet to play there. Those are the teams we are fighting against for top 4, if we want to consider ourselves as 'top 4 challengers' we need to win these types of games.

Hell, even Wigan won there.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #197 on: March 10, 2012, 07:59:58 PM »
Has someone done proper analysis on the income/expenditure at our club since the new owners came in?

I know the press line is we've spent 100 million or whatever nonsense
However I suspect the new owners have invested very little

Pretty sure the net spend since they came in is around the 30 million mark
However the wage bill has been reduced an awful lot
Not only that but I saw the club is carrying 120 million of debt - isnt that more than when they 'bought' the club?

My point is that the turning point in our season (apart from Lucas being injured) were the decisions made in the summer
Not investing substantially and yet expecting CL qualification was the turning point

Offline cornelius

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #198 on: March 10, 2012, 08:44:36 PM »
Was it really? Chelsea won there, Arsenal won there, and Spurs have yet to play there. Those are the teams we are fighting against for top 4, if we want to consider ourselves as 'top 4 challengers' we need to win these types of games.

Hell, even Wigan won there.
Sorry you're right Sunderland away on current form should have been a banker. Sack Kenny.

How did league leaders Man City get on there by the way?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 08:46:20 PM by cornelius »

Offline keyo

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Re: The defining moment in our season... and it wasn't even on the pitch!
« Reply #199 on: March 11, 2012, 12:56:54 AM »
Has someone done proper analysis on the income/expenditure at our club since the new owners came in?

I know the press line is we've spent 100 million or whatever nonsense
However I suspect the new owners have invested very little

Pretty sure the net spend since they came in is around the 30 million mark
However the wage bill has been reduced an awful lot
Not only that but I saw the club is carrying 120 million of debt - isnt that more than when they 'bought' the club?

My point is that the turning point in our season (apart from Lucas being injured) were the decisions made in the summer
Not investing substantially and yet expecting CL qualification was the turning point

or maybe they are getting the club are on a more sustainable base for moving forward.......proper analysis needed but i would avoid making conclusions without it.....
Joey's ate the frogs legs, made the swiss roll, now he's munchin' gladbach!!