Topic: Jordan Henderson

[moe1987]

What a supporter. Give this man a medal

what because both our management team and henderson deserve a medal? maybe its because am so angry at the way this season has gone, like everyone else I spend hard earned money on a club with a big fan base who you would think with the history and prestige of the club would have a fantastic scouting and coaching set up, yet for the past 20 years, we have bought mostly poor players and bar the world class player we have who saves us, a lot of these players loose what ever limited ability they had. Am sorry but common sense dosn't run in our club and hasn't done so in the last 20 years.

[The Grinch]

Why bring Adam into this?

Didn't hide the fact how woeful Henderson is.

Liverpool Football club arguing about Adam or Henderson is akin to two bald men arguing about a comb. Mata showed more nous than our entire midfield put together. The midfield was an absolute mis-match, Chelsea dictated the tempo, the tactics and the result because they understood the importance of the midfield battle and we argued over whether Adam or Henderson plumbed the furthest depths of ineptitude.

The pair of them make Momo look like Platini.

[Carolina Red]

does that mean he's learnt everything he needs to?

he's 21, played two of those seasons at a club which is very different to LFC and played a lot of his games at right-mid.

give him time and support, and he'll boss our midfield.

He was equally average at Sunderland, started most every game, very few goals or assists.

You really think Steve Bruce decided to sell a future England star to Liverpool instead of the Darth Fergusson?

[HighSix]

The Arsenal fans are making the very same points about Ramsey at the moment.

[Johnny Foreigner]

What sums him up and what stands out compared to some other players (read bottlers) is when he blazed a shot over the bar, he jumped in the air and screamed in frustration, at least he fucking cares. He shouldn't start week in week out, but he is young and will improve, if we are to play pass and move, then Henderson has what it takes to fit in that system. With Lucas or a quality CM he'll develop into a really good player.

Good point there. You could see his frustration. Very comforting that. He will turn out to a world class CM in 2-3 years time.

[Andy]

I like your point.

Thing is, when a player like Adam goes from a 9 to a 3, in the game when he has a 9, he wins you a game. In the same way when he has a 3 he can loose you one haha but it's not likely for a midfielder. Or you can just be a 6/7 all the time and contribute nothing.

win 1, loose 1. 3 points.
draw 2, 2 points.

Same as having average players who want to win games as opposed to just getting through them. Look at a player like Nani at United (I know they're very different but there's a point). He'll loose the ball 9/10 in the final third, but on the 10th time he'll score a wonder goal and win a game. Henderson needs to let go, he needs to stop being so conscious of loosing the ball and just go forward and try. Problem is, he's too happy to not try.


Always been our problem. Not willing to risk loosing to win, so we draw. Henderson in this way is perfect for us at the moment.

it is true he does need to be more positive at times. however playing as a deep lying centre mid as he does, his role is to keep the ball moving and pull the strings. he won't necessarily win you a game with one piece of skill or a forward run, but he'll probe and spread the play and contribute to the overall performance. even is alonso didn't have his spectacular long passes, xabi would have been a fantastic player as he keeps the balling moving, retains the ball and starts team moves.

when i called henderson a 6/7 player, i didn't mean he doesn't contribute anything!

[Nin]

What I find funny is the people that have their reservations about him are the ones who've offered an honest appraisal of his strengths and weaknesses and contributed most to this discussion. Those who disagree haven't really given any credence to their opinions beyond "he's only 21, give him support... he'll be boss one day".

[Babel Time]

No, it's not. My mates have called me son all my life. People on this site call others 'lad' all the time.

Well it's always differentg story with mate's. The set of vocabulary I use when I'm with my mates I would not dare to employ when adressing a stranger.
I guess like most things in life it depends on context, but "son" can and is very often used in a condescending fashion.

Anyways, getting a little off topic here

[matt120979]

What I find funny is the people that have their reservations about him are the ones who've offered an honest appraisal of his strengths and weaknesses and contributed most to this discussion. Those who disagree haven't really given any credence to their opinions beyond "he's only 21, give him support... he'll be boss one day".

... like Lucas.

[MatthewRedBlood]

Well it's always differentg story with mate's. The set of vocabulary I use when I'm with my mates I would not dare to employ when adressing a stranger.
I guess like most things in life it depends on context, but "son" can and is very often used in a condescending fashion.

Anyways, getting a little off topic here

I said it, and i was meant in a friendly manner. Sorry if any offence was caused to whoever but it seriously wasn't intended whatsoever.

[royhendo]

Well it's always differentg story with mate's. The set of vocabulary I use when I'm with my mates I would not dare to employ when adressing a stranger.
I guess like most things in life it depends on context, but "son" can and is very often used in a condescending fashion.

Anyways, getting a little off topic here

Seriously, insults are flying around all over the shop. Please don't be precious about 'son', cos you'll just end up running out of pepto-bismol.

[HighSix]

Well it's always differentg story with mate's. The set of vocabulary I use when I'm with my mates I would not dare to employ when adressing a stranger.
I guess like most things in life it depends on context, but "son" can and is very often used in a condescending fashion.

Anyways, getting a little off topic here

It it ok to use you username or part of you username? Babe?

[RedinExeter]

What did he do wrong today? Felt he was one of our better players in the first half, kept the ball, pressed well, worked hard, second half he was nowhere near the worst. Get off his back and stop looking for a scapegoat.

[MatthewRedBlood]

What I find funny is the people that have their reservations about him are the ones who've offered an honest appraisal of his strengths and weaknesses and contributed most to this discussion. Those who disagree haven't really given any credence to their opinions beyond "he's only 21, give him support... he'll be boss one day".

Completely agree. Back it up with something. Don't just say it for saying it's sake.

Why do they think he'll be boss?

(Silence)

[Andy]

He was equally average at Sunderland, started most every game, very few goals or assists.

You really think Steve Bruce decided to sell a future England star to Liverpool instead of the Darth Fergusson?

so you think kenny spent £16m on an average Sunderland player? then there is no point continuing this conversation as i fundamentally disagree.

i don't think Bruce wanted to sell henderson to anyone. like the insinuation there was some conspiracy theory behind his transfer though, typical deluded thinking of our fans.

[Carolina Red]

... like Lucas.

That's not really an argument though, is it? For every Lucas, hundreds of average midfielders have remained average over their careers as well.

Serious questions: what is Henderson really good at, i.e. better than other midfielders at similar clubs?

[royhendo]

What I find funny is the people that have their reservations about him are the ones who've offered an honest appraisal of his strengths and weaknesses and contributed most to this discussion. Those who disagree haven't really given any credence to their opinions beyond "he's only 21, give him support... he'll be boss one day".

That's just as untrue as the opposite Nin.

Tall boy, prodigious athlete, stamina that we wish other midfielders had, plays with his head up, can move it one touch, moves immediately on making the pass (we used to praise our players for that tendency), tends to be aware of the need to hold his position when we don't have the ball, good control, but raw, lacking in self-belief and confidence (save for sporadic flashes), and in need of experience to bolster his decision making (and confidence and belief). But we lost Lucas and now we're in a position where we rely on him.

[Johnny Foreigner]

Well answered mate.



Me? I like him. The kid needs experience and belief. I remember having the exact same debate with my old boy about a player called Billy Kirkwood for Dundee United. "What does he do though?" Answer: what he's told. That's good from the manager's point of view, but maybe a little negative from a 'shrinking violet' point of view (in that senior players maybe coax him into his shell a wee bit).

I agree with the majority of your posts but I struggle with this one..  Henderson CM passing the ball 2 m to gerrard/sideways/backwards when we're 1-2 goals down and downing - attacking left wide passing the ball 2 m to enrique in the same position - either we've got an attacking cojones free zone or our coaching has improvment potential..

if we keep it simple; we're in a mess..

[Brentie]

I know he didnt have the best of games but he really reminded me of a young Zidane at times today- another player who had dissapointiing displays in finals when he was young.

He'll be boss, I have absolutely no doubt about that.

[matt120979]

That's not really an argument though, is it? For every Lucas, hundreds of average midfielders have remained average over their careers as well.

Serious questions: what is Henderson really good at, i.e. better than other midfielders at similar clubs?

I was taking the piss.

[Babel Time]

I said it, and i was meant in a friendly manner. Sorry if any offence was caused to whoever but it seriously wasn't intended whatsoever.

Seriously, insults are flying around all over the shop. Please don't be precious about 'son', cos you'll just end up running out of pepto-bismol.

I'm not being precious just trying to point out why that person may have taken offence to being called "son".

[Nin]

... like Lucas.

There are similarities, I won't deny it. But then again, there also differences between the two. They are different kinds of player for a start. I think there's a lot more expectation around Henderson, rightly or wrongly.

With Lucas he always had the attributes to develop into a solid defensive midfielder. With Henderson I can't see how he'll become that type of player without improving his tackling and defensive side of his game. I don't think he'll develop much more than where he's at now. He's good technically and can keep it tidy, but I feel that won't be enough for him to make it here.

[Carolina Red]

I was taking the piss.

Doh! My bad 

[Carolina Red]

Liverpool Football club arguing about Adam or Henderson is akin to two bald men arguing about a comb. Mata showed more nous than our entire midfield put together. The midfield was an absolute mis-match, Chelsea dictated the tempo, the tactics and the result because they understood the importance of the midfield battle and we argued over whether Adam or Henderson plumbed the furthest depths of ineptitude.

The pair of them make Momo look like Platini.

This.

The idea that Downing was preferred to Mata this past summer is excruciating to think about.

[lfc_bhoy]

Notice the same lads that backed Lucas to the hilt are doing the same for Jordan.  He'll be quality if we give him a season or two to adjust.

[The G in Gerrard]

Can't understand why this thread is growing so rapidly after today

[Andy]

Completely agree. Back it up with something. Don't just say it for saying it's sake.

Why do they think he'll be boss?

i think he is already boss as he has very good technique, pace and stamina. he was used as a right mid at sunderland because he has a good cross too (though, along with all our other players, he seems unable to do it at anfield), but his main strength is as a centre mid where his passing ability is used to best affect. he retains the ball very well (often the cause of people moaning about him "playing sideways" as they did with lucas) and keeps the ball moving, but can play more incisive passes when other players make good runs ahead of him (often our team has looked too static this season, limiting his passing options and causing to pass sideways).

put him next to lucas or a better defensive midfielder, with players like gerrard, suarez, wingers etc making good movement ahead of him, plus inject a bit of form or confidence into the whole team... and suddenly everyone will appreciate him.

like lucas a few seasons ago.

(Silence)

thanks for giving us the time to respond

[Andy]

Can't understand why this thread is growing so rapidly after today

some of our fans are idiots.

[matt120979]

There are similarities, I won't deny it. But then again, there also differences between the two. They are different kinds of player for a start. I think there's a lot more expectation around Henderson, rightly or wrongly.

With Lucas he always had the attributes to develop into a solid defensive midfielder. With Henderson I can't see how he'll become that type of player without improving his tackling and defensive side of his game. I don't think he'll develop much more than where he's at now. He's good technically and can keep it tidy, but I feel that won't be enough for him to make it here.

again, appreciate the reasoned response, but i was taking the piss.

It seems the standard line here that anybody who criticises Henderson is often told that they were just like the clueless bastards that used to slag Lucas.

FWIW I think they are two very different players. Whether or not Henderson will turn out to be a gem is not my call or else I might have a career in the game. However, I am mystified as to what he currently offers or why it is that I could have put my house on him making today's starting lineup.

I think he did great the other week against Blackburn but, at the moment, I believe he is inferior to the other options we have for the positions he has filled.

[matt120979]

Doh! sorry 

No worries.

[royhendo]

I agree with the majority of your posts but I struggle with this one..  Henderson CM passing the ball 2 m to gerrard/sideways/backwards when we're 1-2 goals down and downing - attacking left wide passing the ball 2 m to enrique in the same position - either we've got an attacking cojones free zone or our coaching has improvment potential..

if we keep it simple; we're in a mess..

See, that says it all. You expect leadership and initiative. You get that from Jonjo, but Jonjo isn't as mobile and he doesn't hold his position as well.

We are in a mess, but much like Spearing today, it's arguably a result of not buying a front line centre mid. Gerrard shouldn't have been back within 2m of Henderson, but he didn't trust the pairing. Would he have trusted Lucas and Henderson? I think he would have done - more than he did the pair today, anyway. And if Gerrard is comfortable staying closer to Luis, we have a different game.

Di Matteo set them out well today - the balance in the mid was key. But our pairing was overwhelmed and we needed to be more compact. Looking at Henderson throughout, it wasn't him lunging in for balls he couldn't reach, or failing to see the pass ahead of him. I'd rather he knock it 2m to a red shirt than stop, flail his arms around, and then do it.

[Carolina Red]

so you think kenny spent £16m on an average Sunderland player? then there is no point continuing this conversation as i fundamentally disagree.

i don't think Bruce wanted to sell henderson to anyone. like the insinuation there was some conspiracy theory behind his transfer though, typical deluded thinking of our fans.

No conspiracy insinuations. Just asking if you think Bruce would've sold him to Liverpool if he though Henderson was going to be great. After all, Fergusson didn't hesitate to swoop in and buy Ashley Young and Phil Jones after Liverpool bid for them.

[royhendo]

if we keep it simple; we're in a mess..

I really disagree with that btw. A team full of players who can keep it simple is what we ought to be hoping for.

[Andy]

This.

The idea that Downing was preferred to Mata this past summer is excruciating to think about.

don't think about it, as it wasn't a choice between the two!!

we wanted a winger to supply crosses for carroll; mata is a floating, attacking midfielder like maxi.

he is a great player but would mata have chosen us over chelsea, even if we did want him?

[matt120979]

Gerrard shouldn't have been back within 2m of Henderson, but he didn't trust the pairing. Would he have trusted Lucas and Henderson? I think he would have done - more than he did the pair today, anyway. And if Gerrard is comfortable staying closer to Luis, we have a different game.

this stood out like a pair of greyhounds bollocks today - henderson had a stinker but was not solely to blame.

[Twelfth Customer]

See, that says it all. You expect leadership and initiative. You get that from Jonjo, but Jonjo isn't as mobile and he doesn't hold his position as well.

We are in a mess, but much like Spearing today, it's arguably a result of not buying a front line centre mid. Gerrard shouldn't have been back within 2m of Henderson, but he didn't trust the pairing. Would he have trusted Lucas and Henderson? I think he would have done - more than he did the pair today, anyway. And if Gerrard is comfortable staying closer to Luis, we have a different game.

Di Matteo set them out well today - the balance in the mid was key. But our pairing was overwhelmed and we needed to be more compact. Looking at Henderson throughout, it wasn't him lunging in for balls he couldn't reach, or failing to see the pass ahead of him. I'd rather he knock it 2m to a red shirt than stop, flail his arms around, and then do it.

Confused. What do you mean? Enrique and Reina were just as fault for the goal. Spearing is no Messi, but at least he gives his all.

[bushy2812]

I really don't understand how this lad is taking so much stick, it's almost like I am watching a different game to some people!

Is he as good as Gerrard? No of course not, but to me he looks like a hell of a player in the making and certainly not our problem at the moment.

He has a good touch, controls the ball well, rarely misplaces a pass and at times again today he was the furthest forward trying to get on the end of something in the box. Ok so he doesn't play Hollywood balls all the time but he never lets anyone down and isn't a liability.

Off the ball in defence he is looking very good, full of energy, very fit, quick and normally the first to be closing down players. Over the last month or so he seems to have developed an ability to nick the ball off the toe of the opposition and start a break. Dare I say it at times it reminds me of Lucas.

Combine the two and I think you have a very talented player who has got massive potential.

Be clear though, it is not his fault if we don't have a number 9 in the team so that he can thread balls through, or if he gives the ball to someone who then loses it (Enrique!). He is doing a good job and will get better in my opinion.

Lay off the lad, support him and he will come good.

[Not funny reecehenebry]

See, that says it all. You expect leadership and initiative. You get that from Jonjo, but Jonjo isn't as mobile and he doesn't hold his position as well.

We are in a mess, but much like Spearing today, it's arguably a result of not buying a front line centre mid. Gerrard shouldn't have been back within 2m of Henderson, but he didn't trust the pairing. Would he have trusted Lucas and Henderson? I think he would have done - more than he did the pair today, anyway. And if Gerrard is comfortable staying closer to Luis, we have a different game.

Di Matteo set them out well today - the balance in the mid was key. But our pairing was overwhelmed and we needed to be more compact. Looking at Henderson throughout, it wasn't him lunging in for balls he couldn't reach, or failing to see the pass ahead of him. I'd rather he knock it 2m to a red shirt than stop, flail his arms around, and then do it.

Have to say I thought the young lad played well today. We started alright, with him knocking the ball about with some nice first time passing. Then he was put out right (were he won some headers against Cole and keep Cole back). When he came back inside he looked better again.

Lad will be a top player.

[Twelfth Customer]

this stood out like a pair of greyhounds bollocks today - henderson had a stinker but was not solely to blame.

Really? I thought today was one of his better games.

[Andy]

No conspiracy insinuations. Just asking if you think Bruce would've sold him to Liverpool if he though Henderson was going to be great. After all, Fergusson didn't hesitate to swoop in and buy Ashley Young and Phil Jones after Liverpool bid for them.

is it just bruce's decision!? no. fergie didn't bid - maybe he thought with cleverly coming through, jones starting in centre mid, plus their existing squad, he had enough cover in this area.

bruce didn't want to sell henderson to anyone, which is partly why he cost so much (plus england premium etc etc).

just cos fergie didn't bid for henderson and we managed to buy, doesn't mean henderson is not a good player. is suarez shit because fergie didn't bid for him!?