Topic: Jordan Henderson

[Sweeney94]

Been a supporter of Jordan since we very first got him but today was absolutely shit. Shit.

Needs to show some fight in his games instead of doing literally fucking nothing for atleast 70% of the games he's played in this year. Stop being a passenger and lead by example. Not good enough

[Rohit]

Absolutely mate. Was what I was arguing all of last Summer and all this season.

Simply not ready for games like today. Adds 0 value and has added next to fuck all all season. 1 goals and 2 assists in all competitions all season tells its own story.

May turn out to be a good player but meanwhile just another passenger.

I agree for the most part. I was wondering in the summer why we felt in the need to spend a significant amount on him when I don't think we were in the position to invest so heavily on a young player. We had other piorities IMO that weren't addressed, he could develop into a great player and has shown some promise but still question to be asked.

FYI before this gets jumped on as reactionary, most of you would know I've defended henderson quite a bit but just have a general question on why he was purchased. What was the thinking behind the signing?

[Bastion73]

The lad is still young and may grow into a top player, Unfortunately for him we can't afford to have him in our first 11. He can't tackle, cant cross and he's shooting is worse than a defenders. I'm struggling to think of what he actually brought our midfield this season.

Pretty much. I think he could grow into a top Premier League player but we should be buying people like this for the future and playing the odd game, he's nowhere near ready to be as played as much as he has been.

[Notayesman]

I agree, just makes the signing even more cockeyed, but with him and Adam set to return, with a Gerrard who has played plenty in the middle of the park this season, I question whether we will buy one. I wont even metion Aquilani as it just seems far too obvious on the surface.

Desperately need a young back up to Lucas.

Well I would hope rather than presume we'll go with 3 central players next season but if we do then Henderson can be used as he should be. I think 2 from Adam, Aquilani and Spearing could be moved on (probably the last 2) and we should be looking to sign someone that can partner up with Lucas and also provide cover. Personally I wouldn't be looking for young lads anymore, get someone with a bit of know how and go from there. We fucking need it.

[Notayesman]

I agree for the most part. I was wondering in the summer why we felt in the need to spend a significant amount on him when I don't think we were in the position to invest so heavily on a young player. We had other piorities IMO that weren't addressed, he could develop into a great player and has shown some promise but still question to be asked.

FYI before this gets jumped on as reactionary, most of you would know I've defended henderson quite a bit but just have a general question on why he was purchased. What was the thinking behind the signing?

I guess that's why Comolli got his orders but we have to ask questions of Kenny's role in this as well. I notice that for all the player threads open there's none so far for Kenny. I think there probably should be.

[usernamefc]

He won 2 headers that he had no right to win, one of which created a half chance for Suarez. Then yes, he skied some shots, but he was there to take them, Garrard also missed some and he's a far better player than most in the world.

Currently though, he's not defensively great, doesn't impose himself in midfield enough to play the Alonso role, and doesn't have the quick passing/shot accuracy to play the attacking midfield/drifting into areas.
He's 21 though, he needs someone to coach him into one of these roles, define him, because right now, he's not strong enough in any of these areas, and until he can dominate defensively/controlling/attacking, he will just appear to be average, and not really good enough to be in centre midfield for top 4 competing side.

[liverpooll]

I'm not saying he was brilliant or anything but at least he kept the ball which can't be said for either of the other two midfielders.
And especially in the midfield area (even more in such a big game) it is absolut vital to keep the ball and not to constantly force forward passes which then go to opponent players or out.

Maybe he could have passed it to the right areas or even players as the likes of Gerrard or Suarez was only getting deeper to get the ball. Now that's the job of Henderson to feed the ball to them? Clearly, he was not doing the job and I certainly would not be giving him any praise for his final performances. Both final performance, absolute dreadful performances.

[Brentie]

I agree for the most part. I was wondering in the summer why we felt in the need to spend a significant amount on him when I don't think we were in the position to invest so heavily on a young player. We had other piorities IMO that weren't addressed, he could develop into a great player and has shown some promise but still question to be asked.

FYI before this gets jumped on as reactionary, most of you would know I've defended henderson quite a bit but just have a general question on why he was purchased. What was the thinking behind the signing?

A younger Englisher Raul Meireles IMO. Someone who can do a job in different midfield positions and helped with our home grown quota.

The plan fucked up becaue 1) we traded down: Meireles now is a lot better than Henderson 2) Henderson's proven to be absolutely awful anywhere bar center midfield 3) He hasnt stood out in center midfield either.

[Get]

he doesn't have the mentality for it, and i doubt he can improve it, he will be like downing, a shithouse in his decisions making, taking the easy route.

[Nin]

That's a problem with some people though. It should be obvious for any player that they have their strengths and weaknesses so we should look to play to their strengths whilst trying to improve their weaknesses. He can still be a good player who needs to improve his shooting. It's not complicated.

Let's be honest, he needs to improve on a lot more than his shooting. Shooting would be last on the list for me. If we expect him to be a CM then he needs to improve on his overall defensive play and tackling. Shooting comes way down on the list.

[Carolina Red]

Steve Bruce: "I've got a young English midfielder who is a future star. I'll sell him to Liverpool instead of to my Lord and Master Darth Fergus."

Doubt that thought process transpired.

[L7S]

He is just like Rafa's Kuyt. Must be played almost every game. The difference is that Kuyt actually provides goals and assists. Its criminal to see Maxi and Kuyt on the bench just to accommodate someone who is not ready for so much exposure.

[Johnnyboy1973]

Well I would hope rather than presume we'll go with 3 central players next season

So, are you playing Carroll and then Suarez from a wide position?

If has merits just that we have rarely seen Suarez deployed in that positon this season.

[Hazell]

Let's be honest, he needs to improve on a lot more than his shooting. Shooting would be last on the list for me. If we expect him to be a CM then he needs to improve on his overall defensive play and tackling. Shooting comes way down on the list.

**Sigh, 'let's be honest', no that's your opinion, not everyone shares it. I haven't even suggested that the only thing he needs to improve on is his shooting so don't know where you've got that from.

[Kopitian]

Sorry mate, I didn't realise you were in the dressing room for the team talk and tactics. It was clear as daylight to me that Gerrard and Spearing were the deeper of the players but even at that if you expect the 21 year old Henderson to have run the team on cup final day against the likes of Lampard, Mata and Ramires then you're not being reasonable. Gerrard was clearly playing deep in CM, blatantly obvious to me.

i think the plan was to play like the norwich game where we played so well with suarez up front and gerrard just behind him.

the problem here is chelsea's midfield is so disciplined that theres no way thru, hence why gerrard was playing deeper 90% of the time. He couldnt get the ball and neither had the patience to wait for it

i posted this in the fa cup fnal thread

Heres what chelsea looked like with the ball

Our defence

Kalou Drogba Mata

Our midfield..

Lampard.



with us..

its more like

Chelseas whole defence.

      Suarez

Chelseas whole midfield
         
           Gerrard
------Our midfield---------

no one was bothering to break thru the lines with incisive one-twos and runs. Its just side way passes after sideway passes until Agger gets fed up and breaks thru himself cause he cant believe he can dribble better than likes of hendo and spearing. Now the question is.. is that good enough for liverpool?

[brad147690]

I think he just needs to toughen up a bit and got stuck into a few tackles. Our midfield wasn't strong enough today and we paid the price for it.

[Das Liverpool]

A very middle of the road performance, his passing was good, defensively he was good and he didn't make any mistakes that I can think of. In this his debut season he hasn't been pulling up trees but he's shown glimpses of brilliance and I really think he could be a mainstay in our midfield.

[MobileBayRed]

He was average.  So was most of the team.  Not sure why he is getting singled out.

[usernamefc]

I feel for Henderson.

When Lucas first started, he Has Masch and Alonso partnered to him. He didn't have to control the game, or be all out defensive, they were good enough to bring the best out of Lucas, and it wasn't so bad when he wasn't playing great. Henderson has played his whole time in the middle with Spearing, and sometimes Adam. Big difference.

[Fordy]

Once again shows the world that he will never be a Liverpool player or what Liverpool need.

Weak minded, lacks bottle and drive - you can't teach this.

I would sell him in a heart beat - poor, poor signing

[Notayesman]

So, are you playing Carroll and then Suarez from a wide position?

If has merits just that we have rarely seen Suarez deployed in that positon this season.

That's exactly it. I'd have thought with the way things had been going we'd have seen more of it. Suarez played there for Ajax and has a tendency to play wider for Uruguay so I think it suits him and Carroll. Both Bellamy and Kuyt are well suited to it as well. The problem for me is that Kenny has shown too much faith in an underperforming Downing. As I said though you're relying on quality from the fullbacks and whatever about Johnson being able to produce a cross on occasion Enrique is fucking awful at it. The alternative is to go with a 4231 with Suarez, Gerrard and AN Other behind him but I don't think that would suit Carroll the way it suited Torres.

[Red Eyed]

First half he was shite, second half he grew into it and played pretty well. Needs to be more positive and carry the ball more, draw players to him and THEN pass it.

[Matt8Pie]

I still firmly believe he'll become an excellent player. However, he's not what we needed.

[Irish Red 94]

Had he been played in spearings role from the start with jonjo starting the game would have been totally different
I love spearo and the huge effort he puts in but in simple terms he negates our whole midfield no control shape or balance I think we won't see Henderson at his best until Lucas is controlling games again

Today I though he showed a good bit of grit had a five minute spell where he made two good tackles and a superb block
Really helped up the tempo when the big one came on

[Nin]

**Sigh, 'let's be honest', no that's your opinion, not everyone shares it. I haven't even suggested that the only thing he needs to improve on is his shooting so don't know where you've got that from.

Not everyone shares your opinions either. At least I've given an explanation without resorting to childish little insults. Grow up.

[Johnny Foreigner]

Very good game today. Kept it simple and the ball rolling.

Covered a lot of ground due to a good engine. Non-stop working.

Average shooting and could possibly been more adventerous being the CM but in 2-3 years time he'll be one of our star performers.

Deffo be Lucas 2

[Hazell]

Not everyone shares your opinions either. At least I've given an explanation without resorting to childish little insults. Grow up.

ha ha what rubbish. Again, making things up. Twice in that post. Brilliant. Think I'll leave you to it.

[staalpete]

has been overplayed all season, should've started the odd match and made appearances as a sub, like Shelvey does now. Kenny seems to have overconfidence in his ability, that and injuries has resulted in him playing alot more than his performances have deserved

[RojoLeón]

Not everyone shares your opinions either. At least I've given an explanation without resorting to childish little insults. Grow up.

Isn't there a Loose Change, or Alex Jones NWO conspiracy video you can go watch instead of railing against a young Liverpool player?

[MatthewRedBlood]

I don't know what the fuck people were expecting. He's 21, come from an average team, and let's face it, he hardly set the world alight for them. He shouldn't be playing in our team on such a regular basis, and i think injuries have brought this about, however he does seem to be the un-droppable man. Even when we play a 4-4-2 he plays right wing. He's not had a stand out game for me and personally i think he's dog average.

What are his strengths? He's got a good engine, he can play a 5 yard pass sideways or backwards.

Weaknesses: No bottle or ability to drive forward when we're loosing, Refuses to pass forward, very poor final ball, doesn't contribute with goals.

Yes he's 21, and you may say "well look at Lucas", but there's development and fucking miracles. I'm not saying this because we've lost today, frankly i've got no fucking idea why we bought him in the first place. We had about 8 centre midfielders in the summer, and we got rid of our best 2. Aqua and Raul. Sold those two and replaced them with a glorified sunday league player and a kid.

Put it this way, i HOPE he comes good, but i certainly don't EXPECT it.

[Nin]

ha ha what rubbish. Again, making things up. Twice in that post. Brilliant. Think I'll leave you to it.

You said he's a good player but needs to improve his shooting. I said shooting would be low on my list of concerns if we expect him to be a central midfielder for Liverpool.

rubbish? fair enough, that's your opinion.

[staalpete]

Very good game today. Kept it simple and the ball rolling.

Covered a lot of ground due to a good engine. Non-stop working.

Average shooting and could possibly been more adventerous being the CM but in 2-3 years time he'll be one of our star performers.

Deffo be Lucas 2

hopefully you're right about his future, but he had a terrible game today, no getting away from that. That said, he was no worse than our captain

[Nin]

Isn't there a Loose Change, or Alex Jones NWO conspiracy video you can go watch instead of railing against a young Liverpool player?

Not exactly railing against him am I? despite a few posters in this thread, the majority of Liverpool fans are yet to be convinced by him.

And fuck off with that shite. I've kept my posts on topic about Henderson and where I think he needs to improve.

[gregorio]

Sorry, but ' no bottle' is bollocks, were you at Ewood Pk when we went  down to 10 men?

[Zimagic]

I still firmly believe he'll become an excellent player.

When he learns that he's not required to turn back towards his own goal once he receives the ball and that passing the ball backwards is an option, not a requirement.

[RojoLeón]

Not exactly railing against him am I? despite a few posters in this thread, the majority of Liverpool fans are yet to be convinced by him.

And fuck off with that shite. I've kept my posts on topic about Henderson and where I think he needs to improve.

You don't speak for me. And tone your language down young man: Though I agree with you that both Loose Change, and the vast majority of Alex Jones' output, is indeed shite.

[Carolina Red]

Sorry, but ' no bottle' is bollocks, were you at Ewood Pk when we went  down to 10 men?

I think the fact that Henderson's best performance all season was at right back speaks volumes, no?

[Nin]

You don't speak for me. And tone your language down young man: Though I agree with you that both Loose Change, and the vast majority of Alex Jones' output, is indeed shite.

Instead of going on about that, why don't you tell me where I'm going wrong in my opinion of Henderson?

[MatthewRedBlood]

As a man in an 11, with a job to do. What is his job?

Can someone clear it up for me.

He doesn't contribute in attacking because he doesn't score, and he doesn't get assists. He's not a ball winner. He's not a passer (e.g. Adam has his strength.)

What does he actually EXCEL at? Or is he just an all around, jack of all trades kinda guy? If he is then fine, he's great at it, but if he wants to develop he surely needs to improve in a specific area. Personally i don't see the point of him.

When he plays right wing all he does is turn around, when he plays CM all he does is go sideways. People may say he has potential, but to turn into what? James Milner?

[RojoLeón]

Instead of going on about that, why don't you tell me where I'm going wrong in my opinion of Henderson?

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=45398

Click on there when the board is less busy. It's called your post history.