Author Topic: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour  (Read 4316 times)

Offline lfcderek

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2012, 01:27:03 PM »
Signed.

This is something that struck me strongly right from the off. Even if the FA were a well run organization instead of one of the most incompetent in world sport - an accusation of racism is a subject for a court of law - Not for an FA (kangaroo) tribunal.

It came as a shock when, for instance, I found out that there is no right of appeal on the the verdict - only on the severity of the sentence. What other judicial, or quasi-judicial system, is allowed to have NO right of appeal?

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Offline greenone

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2012, 01:27:56 PM »
If the Suarez case had gone to a criminal court with no evidence except another mans word, no witnesses and whereby they could only find the defendant guilty if it was beyond all reasonable doubt then Suarez would have been innocent a million times over.
The Suarez case would not have got to court.
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Offline Carlito Roberto

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2012, 01:29:46 PM »
Out of interest - could people not report the case to the police now and they would then have to investigate?
They would have to have be a witness who heard what was said and nobody did.

Offline El Torres gol

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2012, 01:31:59 PM »
Out of interest - could people not report the case to the police now and they would then have to investigate?
In order to achieve what?
More of our name being  dragged through the mud?
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2012, 01:32:55 PM »
In order to achieve what?
More of our name being  dragged through the mud?
Great plan Batman

I didnt say we should - I was wondering if it was possible!

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Offline El Torres gol

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2012, 01:34:06 PM »
I didnt say we should - I was wondering if it was possible!

Cheers though Robin.
I'm sure it would be but as I say it would be a bit daft.
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Offline macca007

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2012, 01:35:40 PM »
Out of interest - could people not report the case to the police now and they would then have to investigate?

That would mean there was a witness to Suarez and he could actually be guilty of what he was accused of... But there isn't which is our biggest point.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2012, 01:38:11 PM »
signed

I agree that FIFA wouldnt be happy with any governments intervention into football matters, however, alleged racial abuse is not a football matter, it should first be investigated by proper legal authorities, then if the FA want to take action they can do so after that has happened, cant see FIFA having any objection to that unless they think they are a higher god than the laws of most countries. (yeah i know about Brazil and drink laws etc, before somebody points that out)

The FA would be hamstrung if the CPS threw out a case, i certainly couldnt see them throwing around sentences based on probability.

Of course they could. The FA are acting like many organisations and employers who have codes of behaviour and disciplinary sanctions that don't rely on the standards of evidence you'd require for a criminal conviction.

If someone in my business uses racist language I can discipline them without having to take them to court, and I can do it on the basis of probability, not 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Luis Suarez wasn't found guilty of racial abuse - he was found guilty of insulting a fellow sportsman on the pitch, aggravated by reference to race or colour. It's ridiculous to suggest that insulting behaviour should have to be taken to a criminal court.

What makes this so ridiculous is the FA's ridiculous show trial and punishment, the reaction of the media and the inevitable tribal reaction of opposition fans.

The issue isn't about criminal prosecution. The issue is that the FA are effectively the defendant, judge, jury, prosecution counsel and appeal court. In the early days of the Suarez case someone (can't remember who) suggested the idea of an independent sports tribunal to deal with these types of cases across all sports. It would allow non-criminal disciplinary issues to be dealt with fairly and apolitically.

I won't bother signing that petition because it's badly written and too closely tied into the Suarez case.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2012, 01:47:06 PM »
Signed.

This is something that struck me strongly right from the off. Even if the FA were a well run organization instead of one of the most incompetent in world sport - an accusation of racism is a subject for a court of law - Not for an FA (kangaroo) tribunal.

It came as a shock when, for instance, I found out that there is no right of appeal on the the verdict - only on the severity of the sentence. What other judicial, or quasi-judicial system, is allowed to have NO right of appeal?

Quite a few. Employment cases are often only able to be appealed if it can be shown there is a fault in the process. The principle being that no-one is going to prison and there is no criminal record so it's geared towards everyone moving on and getting on with things. If an employment case was subject to appeal in the same way that a criminal case is, then an employer could be stuck with an employee for years while interminable appeals and counter-appeals are heard. So as long as the processes were followed correctly the decision will stand. Of course someone who is sacked unfairly has recourse to the courts to sue for unfair dismissal and they will be compensated financially but they don't get their job back.

Despite our feelings about the FA it's right that they should be able to take speedy disciplinary action in a manner that everyone agrees on, otherwise the season would descend into chaos.

What's wrong is that they have a vested interest and their panels are evidently not independent.

And it wasn't a case of racism...
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Offline El Torres gol

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2012, 01:50:07 PM »
Divert to this much more worthy petition
http://www.avaaz.org/en/end_the_murdoch_mafia/?wExXPcb
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Offline lfcderek

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2012, 02:41:42 PM »
Quite a few. Employment cases are often only able to be appealed if it can be shown there is a fault in the process. The principle being that no-one is going to prison and there is no criminal record so it's geared towards everyone moving on and getting on with things.

This wasn't an employment case Alan. This was a very serious accusation not relating to football matters. Suarez's life in this country will be horribly effected by their decision.

 If an employment case was subject to appeal in the same way that a criminal case is, then an employer could be stuck with an employee for years while interminable appeals and counter-appeals are heard. So as long as the processes were followed correctly the decision will stand. Of course someone who is sacked unfairly has recourse to the courts to sue for unfair dismissal and they will be compensated financially but they don't get their job back.

And I agree that it is sensible that a 3 match ban for a bad tackle can't be appealed through the law courts. As you say, this could cause administrative chaos (and cost huge amounts) - and thus all clubs agree to it. This was not a footballing matter!

Despite our feelings about the FA it's right that they should be able to take speedy disciplinary action in a manner that everyone agrees on, otherwise the season would descend into chaos.

What's wrong is that they have a vested interest and their panels are evidently not independent.

And it wasn't a case of racism...

Yes it bloody was!

In Law (sic) it wasn't. The FA and Evra made sure that they said it wasn't. The reality is that the press and virtually every football fan in the country have (and will continue) to treat it as a charge of racism. The very fact we are disputing whether it was a charge of racism or not is a strong indication that the FA does not have a valid jurisdiction in this area.

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Offline Scousebeef

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2012, 02:54:22 PM »
Horse, Door, stable, Bolted etc!
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Offline ScouseBrad

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2012, 05:19:04 PM »
Signed

Offline Pilchard

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2012, 06:08:46 PM »
Signed.

This is something that struck me strongly right from the off. Even if the FA were a well run organization instead of one of the most incompetent in world sport - an accusation of racism is a subject for a court of law - Not for an FA (kangaroo) tribunal.

It came as a shock when, for instance, I found out that there is no right of appeal on the the verdict - only on the severity of the sentence. What other judicial, or quasi-judicial system, is allowed to have NO right of appeal?



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Offline SadRed

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2012, 06:14:14 PM »
Signed

Offline Pilchard

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2012, 06:23:25 PM »
From the off I have believed that if Evra had brought a civil case, there wouldnt have been the evidence to convict. I have said so many times and even asked who made the FA responsible for the UK race laws. So I believe in the petition in principle,

However I wont be signing it.

Many thousands of (non-LFC) fans have backed petitions related to Hillsborough because they believed in the cause. If we start petitions every time we think weve been dealt a shabby hand we run the risk of turning many against the big issues.

Were already seen by many as a 'City that wallows in our victim status' to paraphrase Boris Johnson.

Good luck with it, and I wont give it anymore adverse comments after this, but I thought we were supposed to be moving on, drawing lines and shuffling forward.

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Offline Red an White Tea Party

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2012, 07:55:38 PM »
Done. Look forward to seeing the fa on trial at Nuremberg for chucking their weight around like jumped up little dictators.
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Offline TheTeflonJohn

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2012, 08:37:13 PM »
From the off I have believed that if Evra had brought a civil case, there wouldnt have been the evidence to convict. I have said so many times and even asked who made the FA responsible for the UK race laws. So I believe in the petition in principle,

However I wont be signing it.

Many thousands of (non-LFC) fans have backed petitions related to Hillsborough because they believed in the cause. If we start petitions every time we think weve been dealt a shabby hand we run the risk of turning many against the big issues.

Were already seen by many as a 'City that wallows in our victim status' to paraphrase Boris Johnson.

Good luck with it, and I wont give it anymore adverse comments after this, but I thought we were supposed to be moving on, drawing lines and shuffling forward.

Just how I feel
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Offline xavidub

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2012, 08:38:47 PM »
From the off I have believed that if Evra had brought a civil case, there wouldnt have been the evidence to convict. I have said so many times and even asked who made the FA responsible for the UK race laws. So I believe in the petition in principle,

However I wont be signing it.

Many thousands of (non-LFC) fans have backed petitions related to Hillsborough because they believed in the cause. If we start petitions every time we think weve been dealt a shabby hand we run the risk of turning many against the big issues.

Were already seen by many as a 'City that wallows in our victim status' to paraphrase Boris Johnson.

Good luck with it, and I wont give it anymore adverse comments after this, but I thought we were supposed to be moving on, drawing lines and shuffling forward.



This
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Offline Doc Evil

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2012, 10:35:13 AM »
Signed and a bump, it might have a long way to go, but it has to start somewhere right? After all this is limiting his right to work due to a non-legal opinion on what should be a legal matter. No burden of proof, and a balance of probabilities (or rather someone's opinion on what appears to be a more credible witness) just isn't good enough. Matters like this should be decided upon by a subjective reading!!
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Offline Doc Evil

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2012, 10:37:59 AM »
Very well written petition - it's a long way to go from 9 people.

I'd think Joey Barton would like a read of this
Oh and it's already up to 115 people, was 80 when I signed it last night. This can be done.
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Offline telekon

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2012, 10:42:35 AM »
Excellent initiative. Now if only I resided in the UK to sign it...
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Offline LFC_McG

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2012, 11:51:36 AM »
Done

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2012, 12:07:00 PM »
Have signed it just in the hope it would lead to engerlunds expulsion from Fifa tournaments. Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth coming from turds like Barclay and Samuels, how sweet.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2012, 02:41:47 PM »
Very well written petition - it's a long way to go from 9 people.

I'd think Joey Barton would like a read of this

It's not very well written at all, but it'll do.

Offline SpionBob

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2012, 04:09:42 PM »
I've signed it because I'm still angry about that twat Evra, that c*nt Demento and that incompetent FA stitching us up. That striking obnoxious c*nt Evra will always be 'persona non grata' to me.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: E-petition to restrict the FA's power to punish for criminal behaviour
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2012, 04:14:37 PM »
The Suarez case would not have got to court.

Yes. In fact, it didn't.