Author Topic: Rangers In Liquidation... Sevco5088 in... SFL3 (for now) (Read 71635 times)

kiNki · « **Reply #40 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:58:17 PM »

Quote from: Terry De Niro on February 13, 2012, 07:54:54 PM

This has been coming for years.

yep ever since kenny ripped his rangers posters to sign for celtic.

bad kenny.

Terry De Niro · « **Reply #41 on:** February 13, 2012, 08:01:55 PM »

Quote from: kiNki-Suarez on February 13, 2012, 07:58:17 PM

yep ever since kenny ripped his rangers posters to sign for celtic.

bad kenny.

Haha

blacksun · « **Reply #42 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:53:08 PM »

Going to see a lot more of this in the next few years I fear. Was obviously going to happen the way football had been wasting money for the last 10-15 years.

Feel for any fan who sees their club go through it.

Mouth · « **Reply #43 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:06:07 AM »

Quote from: Stussy on February 13, 2012, 07:48:56 PM

Why? I understand if you're a Celtic fan why you say that, but if not why would you say that?

Dont like any of them and dont care what happens to them, I'm a c*nt like that

81a · « **Reply #44 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:19:52 AM »

Quote from: kevlumley on February 13, 2012, 04:42:26 PM

49 million owed to tax man, to find in 5 days.

How much is that in English money?

rafathegaffa83 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:57:12 AM »

Wow. Rangers eventual bill could upwards of £75m, including penalties. And recent FA Cup winners, Portsmouth can't even pay the electricity.

Quote

Rangers on precipice as biggest club yet faces shocking bankruptcy

• Portsmouth join the Glasgow club in seeking administration
• Both clubs in fight for survival as HMRC pursues tax debts

Ewan Murray and Owen Gibson
guardian.co.uk, Monday 13 February 2012 21.31 GMT

The spectre of financial meltdown returned to British football on Monday after Rangers and Portsmouth both applied to be placed into administration.

Rangers, one of the game's great institutions and by far the biggest club to have their existence thus threatened in the modern era, have claimed they are facing a tax bill of "substantially more than £50m" after lodging papers confirming the move in Edinburgh on Monday The club are virtually certain to appoint an administrator to take control of affairs at Ibrox within the next 10 working days.

Meanwhile Portsmouth revealed they would on Friday apply for similar status to avoid a winding-up order from the taxman, less than two years after they infamously became the first Premier League club to enter administration, owing more than £120m.

If the application is granted on Friday, it will lead to the club's bank accounts – frozen in light of an outstanding £1.2m tax demand – being made available and some pressing outstanding payments, including an overdue electricity bill, to be made. The players and staff have not been paid since Christmas.

Rangers have been involved in a tribunal with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, relating to historic employee benefit trust payments to players. The Rangers owner, Craig Whyte, claimed last night that the potential tax bill could be as much as £75m, including penalties. The administration move has been made before the outcome of that tax case has been published.

On the specifics of the tax issue, Rangers said: "The tribunal relates to a claim by HMRC for unpaid taxes over a period of several years dating back to 2001, which, if decided in favour of HMRC, could result in liabilities and penalties substantially more than the £50m reported which the club would be unable to pay."

Whyte said: "Since I took over the majority shareholding of the club in May last year, it was clear to me the club was facing massive financial challenges both in terms of its ongoing financial structure and performance and the potential consequences of the HMRC first tier tax tribunal.

"I have taken the decision that the most practical way to safeguard the long-term future of the club is to go through a formal restructuring process. It may still be possible to avert this but that is not the most likely way forward."

Whyte has already mortgaged £24m of Rangers' future season-ticket money to meet costs.

In a separate release, Rangers proposed the club enter a company voluntary arrangement whereby their creditors agree to be repaid a reduced sum, but only if the tax authorities agreed to a moratorium on the £50m-plus potentially owed. "The club wishes to seek the protection of a moratorium from HMRC action whilst a CVA proposal is made to creditors," the statement read. "Should the club proceed into administration, the appointed administrators will in all likelihood implement a cost-cutting programme and staffing levels will be reviewed across all departments of the club's business."

As and when an administrator arrives at Ibrox, Rangers will incur a 10-point penalty from the Scottish Premier League. Any subsequent punishment depends on the CVA being accepted by the required 75% of Rangers' creditors. HMRC have proved inflexible with football clubs in the recent past but will recognise the threat of receiving no return whatsoever if Rangers are plunged into liquidation.

The Portsmouth chief executive, David Lampitt, said the club was left with no choice but to apply for administration to protect its creditors after the former majority shareholder Vladimir Antonov was arrested for alleged bank fraud in late November. He told the BBC that entering administration would convince potential buyers to come forward and agree a CVA that would save the club.

Antonov's arrest led to renewed questions from Portsmouth fans over the Football League's fit and proper persons test. Lampitt said last night that the club had already been "brought back from the brink" once. UHY Hacker Young, who have been searching in vain for a buyer as administrators of Antonov's former company CSI, are likely to take over as administrators of the club if the court order is granted on Friday. "We have made the order because we've got to the position where it's absolutely necessary to do that to protect the club and protect our creditors," said Lampitt.

Whyte, meanwhile, was jeered by supporters as he addressed them outside Ibrox. He said: "From my early days as chairman I saw that administration was a very real option to enable the club to address these challenges and make a fresh start. Frankly, the case for administration in pure financial terms was compelling but I was acutely aware that such a great institution as Rangers could not be viewed exclusively in financial and business terms.

"As I have said before, Rangers costs approximately £45m per year to operate and commands around £35m in revenue. From the outset I have made it clear that I do not think it is in the best interests of Rangers to throw good money after bad."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/13/rangers-faces-bankruptcy

Gromit · « **Reply #46 on:** February 14, 2012, 01:48:26 AM »

Based on what's happened before, especially in Portsmouth's case, I expect both clubs to be given a lifeline while the taxman and small businesses get a fraction of what they're owed.

zimmie'5555 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:46:31 AM »

I'm not a fan of Rangers, never been able to stand them really in all honesty. For a club like them to go under would be insane though. Absolutely catastrophic for Scottish football too, even for Celtic. Staggering. The consequences of this could be enormous. It still doesn't seem to be as important as someone not shaking someone else's hand though.

vishy01234 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:58:48 AM »

It's Luis Suarez's fault.

Lfsea · « **Reply #49 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:02:42 AM »

I'm not sure if I was a Celtic fan I'd find this particularly hilarious.

I have only a limited knowledge of the SPL but surely a great deal of Celtic's profitability lies in the Rangers rivalry? If Rangers were to go broke, one could reasonably assume SPL crowds would diminish.

On a wider scale does the future of the SPL as a whole rest on the continued existence of Rangers?

TheShanklyGates · « **Reply #50 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:55:58 AM »

Quote from: Phil M on February 14, 2012, 04:05:48 AM

What about the Jelavic money, surely that would help in terms of payment?

If they're relying on Everton paying the bills to keep going then they really are fucked.

Mouth · « **Reply #51 on:** February 14, 2012, 05:02:36 AM »

Quote from: Phil M on February 14, 2012, 04:05:48 AM

What about the Jelavic money, surely that would help in terms of payment?

Dont think a twix and a Bill Kenwright autograph are going to cover it.

Lfsea · « **Reply #52 on:** February 14, 2012, 05:18:22 AM »

I think it's rare for transfer fees to be paid in full on the day of signing, isn't it?

More likely that it'll be being paid in installments over a year or two - something Rangers will have agreed to and, I imagine, will be unable to renege on.

WEST HAM PAUL · « **Reply #53 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:25:48 AM »

Quote from: Phil M on February 14, 2012, 04:05:48 AM

What about the Jelavic money, surely that would help in terms of payment?

Apparantly Rangers still owed Everton some money on the Michael Ball deal & various other clubs on deals . So the Jelavic money pretty much swallowed up paying other clubs off.

scatman · « **Reply #54 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:55:48 AM »

Quote from: Gromit on February 14, 2012, 01:48:26 AM

Based on what's happened before, especially in Portsmouth's case, I expect both clubs to be given a lifeline while the taxman and small businesses get a fraction of what they're owed.

It's a bollocks situation, I think despite how high profile clubs maybe they don't deserve lifelines, small businesses are never given benefit of the doubt like this.

Lfsea · « **Reply #55 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:59:51 AM »

Quote from: WEST HAM PAUL on February 14, 2012, 08:25:48 AM

Apparantly Rangers still owed Everton some money on the Michael Ball deal

Bloody hell, that must be galling. He hasn't been near Ibrox in nearly 7 years.

Circa1892 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:10:27 AM »

Quote from: WEST HAM PAUL on February 14, 2012, 08:25:48 AM

Apparantly Rangers still owed Everton some money on the Michael Ball deal

No wonder Everton are bust if they're letting people have decade long credit terms...

Tepid water · « **Reply #57 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:14:40 AM »

Interestingly, Chelsea have just paid out £6m or so to the tax man because they avoided paying tax on image rights which was paid into offshore accounts free from tax.

Sounds quite similar to the rangers situation, but Chelsea have the funds to pay up.

Red Beret · « **Reply #58 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:48:49 AM »

After the Redknapp debacle I expect HMRC to be ruthless on this. We're talking millions here and they have enough egg on their face as it is.

Red Beret · « **Reply #59 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:13:19 PM »

Latest from the Beeb:

HMRC to ask court to put Rangers into administration

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) is set to ask the Court of Session to put Rangers Football Club into administration.

The legal move counters the club's bid on Monday to file for protection against its creditors.

The papers served on behalf of Rangers directors would give the club 10 days to resolve its differences with HMRC.

However, the response from HMRC suggests it is seeking to take charge of events. The court hearing is set to take place on Tuesday morning.

ghirl67 · « **Reply #60 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:16:23 PM »

Quote from: Red Beret on February 14, 2012, 12:13:19 PM

Latest from the Beeb:

HMRC to ask court to put Rangers into administration

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) is set to ask the Court of Session to put Rangers Football Club into administration.

The legal move counters the club's bid on Monday to file for protection against its creditors.

The papers served on behalf of Rangers directors would give the club 10 days to resolve its differences with HMRC.

However, the response from HMRC suggests it is seeking to take charge of events. The court hearing is set to take place on Tuesday morning.

Makes sense. No way would they want Whyte to be able to appoint his own Administrator.

helen the llama · « **Reply #61 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:01:23 PM »

3.30 deadline for Rangers to appoint there own administrator.

RaveDave · « **Reply #62 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:23:10 PM »

Big first step for Rangers and Craig Whyte winning the right to appoint their own administrator, HMRC's administrator would have torn the club to pieces.

Gromit · « **Reply #63 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:27:50 PM »

Does the administrator work with the brief of keeping the club going (and screw the creditors) or looking at Rangers' books and finding the most money they can to repay the creditors?

Red Beret · « **Reply #64 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:29:13 PM »

Maybe that depends on who appoints the administrator?

Gromit · « **Reply #65 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:35:07 PM »

Quote from: Red Beret on February 14, 2012, 02:29:13 PM

Maybe that depends on who appoints the administrator?

I saw this on the beeb:

"Mr Whyte is believed to be a secured creditor of Rangers and could collapse the club if HMRC block a creditors agreement.

The chairman could opt to pursue the legal routes of receivership or pre-pack administration to avoid paying any tax liabilities.

These routes would involve Rangers' assets being transferred to a new company or companies and the old club - formed in 1873 - being left behind with the unpayable debts. It would, almost inevitably, be wound up.

In these cases, HMRC, as an unsecured creditor, would receive very little if anything."

So a company can adopt a new identity, keep its assets, dump its debts and just carry on? No wonder the economy is fucked.

helen the llama · « **Reply #66 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:52:00 PM »

They are in Administration

HMRC can then chase any phoenix club for tax owed by the current imitation.

Phil M · « **Reply #67 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:02:56 PM »

Walter Smith got out at the right time then, perhaps he knew what was coming.

helen the llama · « **Reply #68 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:07:42 PM »

Everyone in scotland who was intrested in football knew what was coming.

exiledintheusa · « **Reply #69 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:09:23 PM »

Very grave situation for The scottish Premier League - regardless of what Celtic may say. The fact that Rangers have been docked 10 points and it has had no effect on the top 2 is no shock and shows just how far behind those outside of the Old Firm are, I don't think Rangers will disappear but if they did so would most of scottish Football in its current guise.

Phil M · « **Reply #70 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:11:55 PM »

Are Celtic fans revelling in this or worried about their own future with the Old Firm under threat?

ghirl67 · « **Reply #71 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:19:38 PM »

Quote from: Phil M on February 14, 2012, 03:11:55 PM

Are Celtic fans revelling in this or worried about their own future with the Old Firm under threat?

Some are but even those who aren't are not worried about our future.

You'll also find it is not just Celtic fans revelling in it. The reason beig some of those fans of other clubs remember a time when rangers were not a force to be reckoned with and their clubs managed, won the league and some of them even did quite well in Europe.

Rangers are not going to disappear entirely anyway. Either they stay in admin for a while and it does them some damage or they go into liquidation and a new rangers is formed which brings more problems for them but they are not going away entirely.

Azi · « **Reply #72 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:26:55 PM »

Quote from: helen the llama on February 14, 2012, 03:07:42 PM

Everyone in scotland who was intrested in football knew what was coming.

which begs the question how the fuck did he manage to get funds secured against ticket sales for the next years

Quote from: royhendo on January 31, 2012, 10:21:23 AM

Ooyah bugger: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/01/31/rangers-owner-craig-whyte-admits-he-sold-four-years-worth-of-season-tickets-to-keep-ibrox-club-running-86908-23728301/

whoever sanctioned at ticketus was either pissed out of his nut or getting sacked in the near futre and didnt give a fuck

Jimmy Conway · « **Reply #73 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:27:37 PM »

Surely Rangers will owe money to the smaller clubs in the SPL?

What would happen if Rangers FC ceased to exist, but started up as a Pheonix club like Rangers Glasgow FC or something.

Azi · « **Reply #74 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:34:52 PM »

Quote from: redmanphil on February 14, 2012, 03:27:37 PM

Surely Rangers will owe money to the smaller clubs in the SPL?

What would happen if Rangers FC ceased to exist, but started up as a Pheonix club like Rangers Glasgow FC or something.

yep posted a wee bit on it in the main spl thread

Quote from: Azi on February 13, 2012, 11:24:55 PM

first of all can i just say i wouldn't wish this on any club i know what it feels like for your club to be run to a sudden halt after my club (motherwell ) went though this in 2002 even though their club has some right tosspots supporting them they do have some decent supporters who follow rangers for footballing reasons rather than religious reasons but anyway going back to topic in hand

secondly rangers have applied to go into administration but haven’t officially went into administration so just to be clear they can still cancel their notice without any points deductions if like many me included this is a way to try and bully HMRC into accepting a smaller cut of the money owed (ranging from 50-75mil depending on who you believe) don't think it will work but its their last throw of their dice essentially

a couple earlier points about whether its good or bad if they go bust i said it before and i will say it again rangers going tits up does not help anyone in the spl except maybe Celtic , We don't NEED Rangers to survive - but it helps. In a season where we play Rangers three times at Fir Park we make about £600,000 more than we would playing an average sized club and that's a lot of money for Motherwell.

Season 2010/11 our total league attendance at Fir Park for the season was 99,838. Of that 37,262 was against the Old Firm. So almost 40% of our total attendances over a season come against Rangers and Celtic.
So if Rangers (or Celtic) went bust tomorrow how would Motherwell make up the short fall and if they couldn't how would they cut their budget?

the reason we get a semi decent tv deal is mainly because the old firm is sold around the world and sky know this if the worse was to happen no one gives a fuck about the other teams sad but true i guarantee you if rangers are to go bust it will be felt there's no point kidding ourself in saying it will be more competitive cos it wont Celtic will still run away with the league

rangers going into admin also could affect dutd and hearts balance sheets as they are still owed money from the lee Wallace transfer (about 700k ) and dutd still owed their share of the gate receipts from the recent cup game ....

but on a more positive note regarding the cl for someone else to get into the cl (or have the chance ) BBC Sportsound have stated if Rangers are not out of Admin by 31st March there will be no European fitba for them next Season. so who is going to win the race for 3rd Motherwell are 6 points clear (with a game in hand ) of hearts who are in 4th we play them on sat me personally still think its far too early to rule anyone out of the race for europe in the top 6 except rangers

as for the the second part yeah they could all the debt would be wiped etc but they would have to start in the third divison and buy someone out to replace them

helen the llama · « **Reply #75 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:41:25 PM »

There are three clubs who I KNOW for definate are owed money by Rangers - Hearts (Lee Wallace), Dundee Utd (cup game) and Dunfermline (Ticket Money)

Two of those will get money through the SPL through their rules on defaulted payments. Not sure what will happen with Dundee Utd but they could potentially get there money through Ranger's share of the prize money.

I also think that the home clubs will be selling tickets to Rangers away support direct between now and at least the end of the season. I know Hearts at least (and possibly some others) already do that.

In any case does anyone think that it is possible for them to be out of administration in 6.5 weeks to meet the UEFA license deadline.

Quote from: Azi on February 14, 2012, 03:26:55 PM

which begs the question how the fuck did he manage to get funds secured against ticket sales for the next years

Because Rangers fans have kept buying their season tickets. It was only season tickets wasn't it. Plus how many financial companies keep an eye on scottish football.

Gromit · « **Reply #76 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:45:49 PM »

So is Craig Whyte in effect wiping out Rangers' debt in return for a 10 point fine? The name of the company may have to change, a temporary transfer ban and no european football, but everything else remains the same?

greenone · « **Reply #77 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:46:25 PM »

Quote from: redmanphil on February 14, 2012, 03:27:37 PM

Surely Rangers will owe money to the smaller clubs in the SPL?

What would happen if Rangers FC ceased to exist, but started up as a Pheonix club like Rangers Glasgow FC or something.

If there is a pheonix club they'd have to start at the bottom of the pyramid.

DyingAtheist · « **Reply #78 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:50:07 PM »

If Rangers leave the SPL, the league is quite frankly, screwed.

Celtic Fans may as well enjoy this while they can, but who's going to turn up to watch Celtic dominate the league year in year out? What player is going to want to play in a league like that?
The death of the Old Firm is the death of the SPL. At least for now, if it happens.

youll never walk alone it · « **Reply #79 on:** February 14, 2012, 03:52:59 PM »

They will reform wont they, but they will have to start from scratch ie they will have not won any trophies! i actually hate them an most of their bigoted fans, but thats me.