Topic: Liverpool Football Club and fighting our corner.

[FernandoTourettes]

Rubbish.

This isn't youtube. You can't thumb me down unfortunately, but you can expand on your one word response. So what's your view?

[killer_heels]

This isn't youtube. You can't thumb me down unfortunately, but you can expand on your one word response. So what's your view?

Live to fight another day? For what?

We believed to have been wronged in this situation. Yet, rather than just making our position clear, letting it be the end of it and letting this so called 'storm' fritter away (which it would have), we have apologised.

So, what does that mean in the future? We get into a situation that we are wronged again or someone says anything about us. What do we do? Argue and fight our cause but then just apologise?

[Lothairio]

There's some cracking argumentos going on, on 5 Live 6-0-6 at the moment. Alan Green playing a blinder with some ridiculous mancs!

[markymark]

Two words : "Strategic Withdrawal"

There's alot of rose tinted mist floating around.

Isn't it obvious Ayre had to release some sort of a statement? Even Hansen on MOTD last night said Suarez "let down the manager". No doubt Kenny feels this too but he can't say it ( and won't ). A Strategic withdrawal is military term where you retreat and regroup so you can live to fight another day.

What do military terms have to do with the Suarez situation? Because our current battleground is not the football pitch, but PR, business and marketing.
Many people here don't seem too concerned about our bad PR. Well, our owners might. Maybe that's because our sponsors might, and the potential deals we have lined up too. Company's and brands want to be associated with us because of history, tradition and values, all of which are getting soiled with days like yesterday.

LFC have to draw a line on it because we are fighting a losing PR battle on too many fronts. And it is a battle. Arguing the moral highground against a claim of racism? Losing battle ( despite the dodgy grounds and agenda by which the FA reached their conclusion ) Short of signing 11 black and asian players this summer for the first team, we won't win that one. Rounding on Ayre? Let's not cut of our noses to spite our face.
 
We need to weather the storm, get back to concentrating on football - hopefully winning a cup and being in the press for all the right reasons. Then, if we choose to talk about a what is a pretty toxic subject, we can do so with hindsight, clarity and when we are all standing together. Definitely not scattered around the battle field picking small battles with no view over the bigger picture.

Fair point, you have to choose you battles.

[markymark]

There's some cracking argumentos going on, on 5 Live 6-0-6 at the moment. Alan Green playing a blinder with some ridiculous mancs!

Listening to that now, Alan Green is usually a proper knob socket, but I'm finding myself warming to him.

[rafathegaffa83]

Sid Lowe actually speaking some sense on twitter. I really shouldn't be this shocked.

Probably the best of his comments

sidlowe Sid Lowe
To sum up: It strikes me as a bit bizarre that no shaking hands is being treated almost as if it is worse than racially abusing...

sidlowe Sid Lowe
As someone pointed out (I RTd), focus on handshake as the solution is a bit Blatter-esque. And didn't he get slaughtered for saying that?

[montysmum]

Correct. Once we'd never back down. We are run by cowards and owned by absentee owners who do not understand anything about us.

YNWA ME ARSE

Oh get a grip.

Once we would never have backed down.

Christ, once we would never have to fork out £20+ million quid for an average player, we had managers who lived in a semi by the club and players who got the bus to work.

Do you want the club to get back to winning the prem and cups for fun, well if you do that takes cash, and lots of it.  There are threads after thread on here about needing to get back into the CL, needing a new stadium, needing to buy top world class players and all of that takes cash too.

I have seen Ayre praised for bringing in good new sponsorship deals, praised for making the club a commercial force again and yet now that he has criticised the actions of a single player all of a sudden the club is being run by cowards and the owners aren't worth a carrot.

To all those moaning about Ayres and the owners I would ask you this, if the sponsors decided that they didnt want their money associated with this club any more because of the bad media image but would rather give it to another club would that make you feel better?

The club have stuck with Suarez right from day one of the racism charge.  Kenny and Ayres have tried to put the clubs case forward on his behalf and have defended him to the hilt.  All Suarez has been asked to do is give a bloody handshake and keep his word.

YNWA is a great ethos, but it doesn't only go one way.  Suarez wasn't left on his own, ever, but Kenny was when he was being interviewed by SSN and didn't know the handshake hasn't been done.

Maybe now he will realise that YNWA brings responsibilities to others not just yourself.

[FernandoTourettes]

Live to fight another day? For what?

We believed to have been wronged in this situation. Yet, rather than just making our position clear, letting it be the end of it and letting this so called 'storm' fritter away (which it would have), we have apologised.

So, what does that mean in the future? We get into a situation that we are wronged again or someone says anything about us. What do we do? Argue and fight our cause but then just apologise?

Make our position clear then letting it be the end of it? Our position was for Suarez to shake Evra's hand. It did not happen.  We ended up with yet another PR disaster.

The only thing the club could have done today was to force out an apology. Genuine or not.

Ever since those apologies have come into the press, the furore is clearly not as strong. Fewer tweets, fewer camera crews cutting to outside Anfield. The club did what they had to do, whatever the club truly think and feel, however they want to say it, at the very least they have bought themselves some time.

And the storm would not have frittered away. You even say the same in the other thread, not without something like this from the club.

[montysmum]

Live to fight another day? For what?

We believed to have been wronged in this situation. Yet, rather than just making our position clear, letting it be the end of it and letting this so called 'storm' fritter away (which it would have), we have apologised.

So, what does that mean in the future? We get into a situation that we are wronged again or someone says anything about us. What do we do? Argue and fight our cause but then just apologise?

Bloody Hell this is madness!  We have not apologised for fighting a cause have we?  Where have we done that?  Where have we said we don't believe that Suarez is guilty of racism or the FA action was the right one?

Suarez has apologised for not shaking Evra's hand as he had told the Manager he would.

Ayres has not apologised for anything at all, he has just said that Suarez should have done as he said he would

Kenny has apologised for not living up to the standards he feels is right for a Liverpool manager.

How does any of that stack up to not standing up for ourselves if we feel wronged?

[LiverpoolForever]

Live to fight another day? For what?

We believed to have been wronged in this situation. Yet, rather than just making our position clear, letting it be the end of it and letting this so called 'storm' fritter away (which it would have), we have apologised.

 

Jesus Christ , im beginning to wonder about some on here.

The club HAS NOT apologised to anyone regarding the Evra issue.Luis has apologised to the club for misleading Kenny , why is that hard to understand?

[killer_heels]

Kenny has apologised for not living up to the standards he feels is right for a Liverpool manager.

What did Kenny do wrong. He said he didn't see the incident and then he defended the player and rightly said you cannot blame Suarez for all that happened. He then took the piss out of a twat.

Nothing wrong there.

[mat106]

I await with baited breath the second cycle of this in tomorrow's papers how United haven't apologised for Evra's actions.

You'll be waiting an eternity.

[Garry_LFC]

I think this whole saga needs a line drawn under it, I feel sick to my stomach about the whole thing. These statements today, whether you feel are right or wrong, go a long way to moving on and putting this in the past. I can't wait to get back to talking about football again.

[redforlife]

What did Kenny do wrong. He said he didn't see the incident and then he defended the player and rightly said you cannot blame Suarez for all that happened. He then took the piss out of a twat.

Nothing wrong there.

Have to agree Kenny had nothing to apologise for.  But then I don't think Suarez did either

[LFC_4_life]

Have to agree Kenny had nothing to apologise for.  But then I don't think Suarez did either

Suarez had everything to apologise for.

He led Kenny to beleive that he would shake hand with Evra. Kenny told the media the handshake would happen. We then led Man Utd to beleive that the handshake would happen and then Suarez goes against his word harming his integrity and more importantly, Kenny and the clubs integrity.

Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. He had everything to apologise for.

[smicer07]

Suarez had everything to apologise for.

He led Kenny to beleive that he would shake hand with Evra. Kenny told the media the handshake would happen. We then led Man Utd to beleive that the handshake would happen and then Suarez goes against his word harming his integrity and more importantly, Kenny and the clubs integrity.

Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. He had everything to apologise for.

Bollocks. Evra clearly didn't want to know, Suarez didn't want to know when he saw Evra half arsed, why the fuck did they have to go through with the handshake charade?

[redforlife]

Suarez had everything to apologise for.

He led Kenny to beleive that he would shake hand with Evra. Kenny told the media the handshake would happen. We then led Man Utd to beleive that the handshake would happen and then Suarez goes against his word harming his integrity and more importantly, Kenny and the clubs integrity.

Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. He had everything to apologise for.

Well he could apologise for that to Kenny in private, there's no need for him to release a statement.  And as for not shaking Evra's hand, I reckon it was probably spur of the moment, not premeditated.

And I don't believe he's made the club look like a joke, we've managed to do that very well as a whole.  Whoever's responsible for Kenny not knowing about the non-handshake before putting him in front of that c*nt Shreeves has more to answer for than Suarez

[Enders]

Suarez had everything to apologise for.

He led Kenny to beleive that he would shake hand with Evra. Kenny told the media the handshake would happen. We then led Man Utd to beleive that the handshake would happen and then Suarez goes against his word harming his integrity and more importantly, Kenny and the clubs integrity.

Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. He had everything to apologise for.

Fucking hell. Just when we'd started to move on from this bollocks.

[LFC_McG]

 I am sickened by the fact we have had to apologise, but it's probably all we could do to stop this shit storm getting any worse, our hands were tied cause of the race issue in the background and a bias media portraying the story from 1 angle. Most of us believe that Luis is innocent, but when some of our own so called fans have sucked in the media shite, what chance have we got. Best just trying get this whole thing out of the headlines n concentrate on getting 4th. Luis already getting short changed by refs the longer this goes on the less fair play he will get. The media have their agenda and we don't hav a big enough platform to get out points accross.

[west_london_red]

The club have bottled it and im quite gutted, feel let down today.

[LiverpoolForever]

I am sickened by the fact we have had to apologise, but it's probably all we could do to stop this shit storm getting any worse, our hands were tied cause of the race issue in the background and a bias media portraying the story from 1 angle. Most of us believe that Luis is innocent,

When did the club apologise for the Evra issue? Must of missed that.The club still believe Luis is innocent dont they?

[LFC_McG]

When did the club apologise for the Evra issue? Must of missed that.The club still believe Luis is innocent dont they?

Where did I say we apologised for the evra issue, I'm talking about what we apologised for 2day obviously

[karljd]

The club have bottled it and im quite gutted, feel let down today.

Agreed 35 years folowing this club and iv'e never felt so let down, will utd apologise for the behaviour of their manager and evra?don't think so.

[Andy]

The club have bottled it and im quite gutted, feel let down today.

they didn't bottle it.

suarez said said he was going to shake evra's hand, then didn't. he has apologised.

it put kenny in a difficult position in the interview afterwards, where he got flustered and had a dig at Sky. he has apologised.

hopefully that'll be the end of it.

[The Grinch]

Jesus Christ , im beginning to wonder about some on here.

The club HAS NOT apologised to anyone regarding the Evra issue.Luis has apologised to the club for misleading Kenny , why is that hard to understand?

If the Club hasn't apologised for the Evra incident then could you explain why United have accepted our apology ?

[Zeb]

If the Club hasn't apologised for the Evra incident then could you explain why United have accepted our apology ?

"Manchester United thanks Liverpool for the apologies issued following Saturday's game. Everyone at Old Trafford wants to move on from this. The history of our two great clubs is one of success and rivalry unparalleled in British football. That should be the focus in the future of all those who love the clubs."

Which goes to:

I should have shaken Patrice Evra's hand before the game and I want to apologise for my actions.

Don't think it's that hard Al.

[mercurial]

Live to fight another day? For what?

We believed to have been wronged in this situation. Yet, rather than just making our position clear, letting it be the end of it and letting this so called 'storm' fritter away (which it would have), we have apologised.

So, what does that mean in the future? We get into a situation that we are wronged again or someone says anything about us. What do we do? Argue and fight our cause but then just apologise?

Exactly echoes my sentiments. No one said anything to mancs but they accepted our apologies. Does that tell people how this will be portrayed. We have let ourselves down, we have let Kenny out to hang. Look at how the media will tear him apart now. Whoever handled the media should be fired right now. Suarez apologized and I can understand it. We need not release statements for that. Give a interview to a channel and make clear his position and get it over with. Why does Ayre have to say all this? Why does Kenny have to apologize for telling Shreves to get a grip. All this to pander to the media shithouse. The end result being it has left a sour taste in the mouth of all and sundry and says that we are not men of our words. We turn as the situation demands and turn some more when it gets out of hand. Our values are flexible, our manager who is idolized an revered by all reds is inept at handling the media.

People then talk of standing together. I would prefer them doing that on the pitch and there is progress and we can see that. Agger and the club designated bouncer Skrtel escorted Luiz in the tunnel followed by Evra trying to barge in. Release statements that the situation was serious enough to call the police/stewards. why did those things happen a OT and nothing at Anfield. The players have besides each other through thick and thin. Players look at their lives their money and have a normal job which pays a lot. They are neither Santre or Kafka. They are not Warren Buffet or John Henry or Ayre. This is all sense looks like something the club asked Kenny  and Luiz to do. Suarez would probably walk off after this. If this was not done, he would probably have stayed till the end. These impetuous guys are something like that.


We have a club. A club which has achieved every trophy possible in Europe. Round the world, you can not find another 2 like this in a competitive league like Europe. A club ravaged through 2 disasters. A club who say their owners under mine their manager before. The rafa was the last nail in the coffin. People had stopped watching football. I never miss a game but was just not arsed after Hodgson. Kenny restored all that was good back to the club. I even started liking our owners. At last the club was united in all forms, fans, players and administrators. All this is now taken away. Players tweeted and wore shirt for Suarez. Have they been left down? Did Suarez left them down? Maybe he did but they would have walked away from it if so. Unfortunately, the club has turned its back to them and said I am business with a PR machine before which you have to grovel even if it goes against your personal and family values. Will Suarez stand before his kid today and say they lied but I was forced to shake the liars hand. Thats the education you want his kid to get, damn it is that sort of obfuscated values we should teach our kids.

A lot of people saying move on from this. Yes, we will move on but with our heads down, being hounded by the media, what more to expect; a headline tomorrow saying "Truth, Kenny lied"? No matter what this will get drawn out. A precedent has been set. A bad precedent. 

[gazzathered]

Suarez had everything to apologise for.

He led Kenny to beleive that he would shake hand with Evra. Kenny told the media the handshake would happen. We then led Man Utd to beleive that the handshake would happen and then Suarez goes against his word harming his integrity and more importantly, Kenny and the clubs integrity.

Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. He had everything to apologise for.

Wrong

[Andy]

Wrong

why?

[maher]

Suarez had everything to apologise for.

He led Kenny to beleive that he would shake hand with Evra. Kenny told the media the handshake would happen. We then led Man Utd to beleive that the handshake would happen and then Suarez goes against his word harming his integrity and more importantly, Kenny and the clubs integrity.

Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. He had everything to apologise for.

every time i see the video again i become more convinced that Evra knew what he was doing..
as long as i'm convinced that Evra knew what he was doing then in my opinion you are wrong.

let's just forget about it and move on

[mercurial]

why?

Suarez is not guilty. All this does not happen if Evra did not lie. Branded a racist because that man made a horrendous allegation and FA pretended that the British Empire is alive and kicking and its values should be upholded. He goes for a hand shake and Evra drops his hand towards his hip indicating unwillingness. Suarez moves on. That has what has happened.

You say "Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. " What damage did he cause in the first place. Get a grip and take off the blinkers. There was nothing to apologize for. A simple interview to say it was a misunderstanding was all that was needed.

Everything else is a media hype and people who ride on it like you did.

[LFC_McG]

Suarez is not guilty. All this does not happen if Evra did not lie. Branded a racist because that man made a horrendous allegation and FA pretended that the British Empire is alive and kicking and its values should be upholded. He goes for a hand shake and Evra drops his hand towards his hip indicating unwillingness. Suarez moves on. That has what has happened.

You say "Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. " What damage did he cause in the first place. Get a grip and take off the blinkers. There was nothing to apologize for. A simple interview to say it was a misunderstanding was all that was needed.

Everything else is a media hype and people who ride on it like you did.

Spot on.

[Andy]

Suarez is not guilty. All this does not happen if Evra did not lie. Branded a racist because that man made a horrendous allegation and FA pretended that the British Empire is alive and kicking and its values should be upholded.

I obviously agree with that.

He goes for a hand shake and Evra drops his hand towards his hip indicating unwillingness. Suarez moves on. That has what has happened.

This is complete nonsense!! Why are people still saying this when Suarez has apologised and taken responsibility?! Are you disagreeing with Luis!?

You say "Suarez made the club look like a joke and has further damaged the clubs reputation. " What damage did he cause in the first place. Get a grip and take off the blinkers. There was nothing to apologize for. A simple interview to say it was a misunderstanding was all that was needed.

I don't think I've said the bit highlighted in bold?? Feel free to correct me if you can find it on here?

Everything else is a media hype and people who ride on it like you did.

why am I riding on it?! I'd argue the people that are banging on about it being Fergie's big plan or the club are wrong to apologise are dragging it all out??

[Tonyh]

Many on here are saying that the new Liverpool owners and board have sold the Club down the river and are not following our ways of the past. However possibly our greatest ever Chairman, and the man who partially helped create the dynasty and legend of the club, Sir John Smith, was a thorough disciplinarian and a man of integrity. I am certain that he would not have let the issue carry on for as long as it did, and he would have ensured that the Clubs reputation was protected.

[The Grinch]

"Manchester United thanks Liverpool for the apologies issued following Saturday's game. Everyone at Old Trafford wants to move on from this. The history of our two great clubs is one of success and rivalry unparalleled in British football. That should be the focus in the future of all those who love the clubs."

Which goes to:

I should have shaken Patrice Evra's hand before the game and I want to apologise for my actions.

Don't think it's that hard Al.

If both Clubs admitted that they made mistakes on Saturday then fine but that hasn't happened United have not apologised for Evra sparking a tunnel bust, injuring his own player tried to take Suarez out, Evra trying to incite the crowd in the area Suarez had to walk through to leave the pitch or Ferguson's disgusting post match tirade.

If you are going to settle a dispute in a conciliatory way then both sides need to admit their mistakes, take responsibility for their actions and take measures to ensure that it doesn't happen again. That quite simply hasn't happened.

[Del_c]

its fucking finished - concentrate on the footy

I dont want to see the non handshake again - Sky sports played the clip 10 times in a 5 minute spell this afternoon

The season still has alot to play for and the players & Kenny need our support

YNWA

[zebenzui]

its fucking finished - concentrate on the footy

Slightly less depressing, yes.

[adam18]

Two words : "Strategic Withdrawal"

There's alot of rose tinted mist floating around.

Isn't it obvious Ayre had to release some sort of a statement? Even Hansen on MOTD last night said Suarez "let down the manager". No doubt Kenny feels this too but he can't say it ( and won't ). A Strategic withdrawal is military term where you retreat and regroup so you can live to fight another day.

What do military terms have to do with the Suarez situation? Because our current battleground is not the football pitch, but PR, business and marketing.
Many people here don't seem too concerned about our bad PR. Well, our owners might. Maybe that's because our sponsors might, and the potential deals we have lined up too. Company's and brands want to be associated with us because of history, tradition and values, all of which are getting soiled with days like yesterday.

LFC have to draw a line on it because we are fighting a losing PR battle on too many fronts. And it is a battle. Arguing the moral highground against a claim of racism? Losing battle ( despite the dodgy grounds and agenda by which the FA reached their conclusion ) Short of signing 11 black and asian players this summer for the first team, we won't win that one. Rounding on Ayre? Let's not cut of our noses to spite our face.
 
We need to weather the storm, get back to concentrating on football - hopefully winning a cup and being in the press for all the right reasons. Then, if we choose to talk about a what is a pretty toxic subject, we can do so with hindsight, clarity and when we are all standing together. Definitely not scattered around the battle field picking small battles with no view over the bigger picture.

Brilliant post.

[The G in Gerrard]

Suarez has apologised for not shaking Evra's hand as he had told the Manager he would.

Ayres has not apologised for anything at all, he has just said that Suarez should have done as he said he would

Kenny has apologised for not living up to the standards he feels is right for a Liverpool manager.

Couldn't the whole matter have finished with the Suarez statement?

Ayres didn't have to say a thing nor did he have to say Suarez didn't do as he was told. That has hardly improved Suarez' reputation has it?

Finally, there is no reason why Kenny had to apologise to anyone. Very rare you have a manager that cares about the club rather than themselves so however he acted yesterday was nothing he had to apologise to Liverpool fans about.

The thing that really riles me is the Manc statement, an acceptance of our apology without a single reference to the ill behaviour of their manager and players doesn't do us any favour at all as if we were the only ones in the wrong yesterday. Just seems like there is a hierarchy in football in which we do what others want.

[Jay797]

This is complete nonsense!! Why are people still saying this when Suarez has apologised and taken responsibility?! Are you disagreeing with Luis!?

Have you seen the video? Evra definitely drops his hand as Suarez comes along!