Author Topic: Heading the Ball (Read 3181 times)

Roy of the rovers · « **on:** February 2, 2012, 04:22:25 PM »

ZM has a really interesting article on heading the ball

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/02/heading-good-in-the-air/

What is Andy's type, and what kind of cross does he need?

J-Mc- · « **Reply #1 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:23:52 PM »

Quote from: Roy of the rovers on February 2, 2012, 04:22:25 PM

What is Andy's type, and what kind of cross does he need?

Quick, diagnol crosses IMO.

It's no suprise that he's caused the most danger when the crosses have been low and driven at an angle for him to run onto.

SP · « **Reply #2 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:25:18 PM »

Quote from: Roy of the rovers on February 2, 2012, 04:22:25 PM

What is Andy's type, and what kind of cross does he need?

One that beats the first man would be a good start.

One that the keeper cannot catch within his 6 yard box would be good too.

MushyP15 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:25:50 PM »

He had a moan at Johnno in the Wolves game where Johnno had the opportunity to run on the outside and then whip a ball in. Instead, Glen took the ball inside and floated a crap diagonal ball into the box with no pace that Andy somehow managed to get a head on, and even more impressively get on target.

You could see Andy getting f*cked off and mouthing bend it in and shaping with his hand a curving cross. I reckon thems theres the balls he's looking for.

Andy @ Allerton · « **Reply #4 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:26:19 PM »

"HEAD THE BALL"

joe ® · « **Reply #5 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:27:14 PM »

The frustrating thing about Carroll is that on his day he can be a G, but more usually he's a D or even an A.

Roy of the rovers · « **Reply #6 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:27:26 PM »

Quote from: J-Mc- on February 2, 2012, 04:23:52 PM

Quick, diagnol crosses IMO.

It's no suprise that he's caused the most danger when the crosses have been low and driven at an angle for him to run onto.

Interesting. I'd have put him as a great jumper, reasonably tall, but not necessarily great technique - at least he's missed a fair few. Does he need a jumping ball between the spot and the six yard box? Or a low angled delivery as per the Wolves goal?

Differences of opinion here may reflect confusion in the team

Scouserpool · « **Reply #7 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:27:49 PM »

There is no denying. The service Carroll gets has been awful! I agree with MushyP

xavidub · « **Reply #8 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:28:23 PM »

The winger needs to be ahead of the striker when he crosses the ball. That gives the header maximum power.

Of course, that means that the striker must like chalk on his boots rather than being allergic to it.

liverbnz · « **Reply #9 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:28:34 PM »

At Newcastle he could make the best of any cross as long as he was in the vicinity and could get to it. They don't even need to be rifled as he has extraordinary neck power, his last minute header against City that Joe Hart plucked from the top corner is a good example of that.

Just get it to him, in the box.

CHOPPER · « **Reply #10 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:28:49 PM »

Bring back diving headers.

Anywhichwayucan · « **Reply #11 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:29:01 PM »

I reckon he is type 'N'.

Exactly the balls Newcastle were giving him. Nobody could touch him in the air.

SP · « **Reply #12 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:33:19 PM »

Quote from: CHOPPER on February 2, 2012, 04:28:49 PM

Bring back diving headers.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xUlHRuwZGb4?version=3&amp;hl=en_GB" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xUlHRuwZGb4?version=3&amp;hl=en_GB</a>

The Jackal · « **Reply #13 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:35:50 PM »

Excellent article that. What category would Carroll fit into? I'm thinking either F or G.. He's definitely tall and I think has good technique, but not sure about his leap..

Fuzion6 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:39:41 PM »

Crosses delivered in with pace is what he needs...that is where he is most successful. The problem has been our wingers and full backs often have just floated the ball in...compare to when the ball has been hit with pace (Gerrard vs Ncastle, Adam vs Wolves, Meireles vs City). The other way Carroll is effective is in winning knock downs and then the key is there being enough support near him which has improved drastically in the last 135min of football.

Samvice · « **Reply #15 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:41:09 PM »

Andy certainly doesn't jump as bad as most very tall players. But his jumping is limited by the fact he gets suprisingly easily knocked off his feet by defenders. Many of his best headers have come with feet on ground. His technique is good, if at times has trouble hitting the target. I'd say it's F or on a good day G. Probably still the best header in the club since Sami Hyypia.

J-Mc- · « **Reply #16 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:42:34 PM »

Quote from: Roy of the rovers on February 2, 2012, 04:27:26 PM

Interesting. I'd have put him as a great jumper, reasonably tall, but not necessarily great technique - at least he's missed a fair few. Does he need a jumping ball between the spot and the six yard box? Or a low angled delivery as per the Wolves goal?

Differences of opinion here may reflect confusion in the team

I'd say a low driven cross aimed for the far post to be honest.

Prime example is Gerrards first game back for us, all game Carroll had had those floated crosses and couldn't do anything with them, Gerrard comes on, smashes 2-3 low, driven crosses into the box, aimed at the far post and Carroll runs onto them for 2 attempts at goal.

It's been the same story most of the season, when he's gotten those driven crosses, he's usually got them on target whereas when he gets those floated balls with a bit of pace on them, they tend to go wide because he's got to much time to think about it. It's a mental thing IMO, especially since he's used to getting those driven crosses from his newcastle days.

danny boy the red · « **Reply #17 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:42:50 PM »

The greatest header of all time from the greatest striker of all time - no other reason for posting it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/tcj14kjCMbg?fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/tcj14kjCMbg?fs=1</a>

kennedy81 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:47:55 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vOB7pcqBH-Y?fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/vOB7pcqBH-Y?fs=1</a>

Heighway...
left foot, first time....
never gets old.

sattapaal · « **Reply #19 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:50:36 PM »

At the moment he's a D with potential to be a G.

OG - Original Gangster.

Mivi · « **Reply #20 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:50:59 PM »

Early. Nothing more simple. He makes his run across the defender very early himself. Nine times out of ten our 'crosser' has checked & Andy Carroll, to be fair isn't the niblist on his feet has to check himself.

CHOPPER · « **Reply #21 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:55:37 PM »

Quote from: Southern Pansy on February 2, 2012, 04:33:19 PM

*shows age* Didn't he have to go off a few minutes later as the magnitude of scoring became a bit too much for him?

Dr Manhattan · « **Reply #22 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:56:45 PM »

I'd imagine he needs the sort that beat the first man. We're fucked.

Roy of the rovers · « **Reply #23 on:** February 2, 2012, 04:57:38 PM »

Quote from: J-Mc- on February 2, 2012, 04:42:34 PM

I'd say a low driven cross aimed for the far post to be honest.

Prime example is Gerrards first game back for us, all game Carroll had had those floated crosses and couldn't do anything with them, Gerrard comes on, smashes 2-3 low, driven crosses into the box, aimed at the far post and Carroll runs onto them for 2 attempts at goal.

It's been the same story most of the season, when he's gotten those driven crosses, he's usually got them on target whereas when he gets those floated balls with a bit of pace on them, they tend to go wide because he's got to much time to think about it. It's a mental thing IMO, especially since he's used to getting those driven crosses from his newcastle days.

When you say 'low', you mean 'flat, head height', or 'low' as per Wolves?

Anywhichwayucan · « **Reply #24 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:00:24 PM »

The thing is, if we are going to loft/float the ball in, we're going to need a player or two to actually go wild and actually get into the box to support Carroll and be there for any knockdowns forthcoming.

J-Mc- · « **Reply #25 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:00:37 PM »

Quote from: Roy of the rovers on February 2, 2012, 04:57:38 PM

When you say 'low', you mean 'flat, head height', or 'low' as per Wolves?

Both, I think he's good enough to get on the end of either mate however I think he'd prefer the former as he may be good with his feet, but he's better with his head.

He just needs something quicker and lower than those stupid lofted balls to the back post that give everyone a chance to clear, Johnson and Enrique are prime examples of how not to cross to Carroll.

redk84 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:00:55 PM »

Think Mr.Carroll is better at using the pace of a cross to convert into good headers....

its harder to generate power off a "floater"....although i do believe he has the ability in his locker....his confidence maybe holding him back.

He'll do it once he believes more.....like in the last match, when he made a brilliant turn and blasted a shot from 30-40 yards out. on another day who knows but was nice to see him try something outrageous !

CHOPPER · « **Reply #27 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:02:56 PM »

Quote from: Dr Manhattan on February 2, 2012, 04:56:45 PM

I'd imagine he needs the sort that beat the first man. We're fucked.

I think we need a 'How to cross a ball' thread.

Roy of the rovers · « **Reply #28 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:03:13 PM »

Quote from: J-Mc- on February 2, 2012, 05:00:37 PM

Both, I think he's good enough to get on the end of either mate however I think he'd prefer the former as he may be good with his feet, but he's better with his head.

He just needs something quicker and lower than those stupid lofted balls to the back post that give everyone a chance to clear, Johnson and Enrique are prime examples of how not to cross to Carroll.

Agreed on this - think he's a great header of the ball, but he does need flat rather than float. Float means knock-down as often as not, the faster ones can just be angled in. Crouch was a floater...

adam18 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:03:56 PM »

Carroll needs first times crosses, so he can get momentum and run onto it, rather than the soft floating balls he has been getting so far.

Then again overall our crossing barley gets past the first man.

bclfc · « **Reply #30 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:10:06 PM »

They surely must be working on this? I would spend at least an hour a day having Johnson, Enrique, Downing and even Maxi pinging crosses into the box with Andy charging on them with one of our defenders marking him. Practice, practice, practice until they can do it with their eyes closed. Just like penalties.

lealiamb · « **Reply #31 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:18:25 PM »

Quote from: bclfc on February 2, 2012, 05:10:06 PM

They surely must be working on this? I would spend at least an hour a day having Johnson, Enrique, Downing and even Maxi pinging crosses into the box with Andy charging on them with one of our defenders marking him. Practice, practice, practice until they can do it with their eyes closed. Just like penalties.

id go as far as getting everyone, not just the "wingers" to practice. anyone could be running down that byline.

Anywhichwayucan · « **Reply #32 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:20:13 PM »

Anyone that's played football, at any level, knows what a pain in the arse a lofted/floated ball into the box is, especially with no support.

Kochevnik · « **Reply #33 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:20:41 PM »

It's odd that so many have said that we need crosses that are from a position near the byline, when that is what most strikers need. However, I think what made Andy great in the air was that he could take a cross from a very deep position and use his neck and still make it a great header. That's what he did at Newcastle; go back and watch the videos and there are several great goals where the cross comes in from 20 yards deep or so, at a diagonal.

He still needs it to come in at pace, obviously more so if it's coming from that angle, but he has fantastic technique to whip his neck around and get good placement on the shot. Look at the goal he scored for us last season against City, with Enrique's (I think? or was it Meireles?) ball in coming from at least 25 yards from the byline, and he just gets up to it and glances it into the corner. Fantastic header, and he's capable of them.

If he's only capable of getting good power when the ball comes back at him from the byline, then there's nothing special about his heading ability at all. Half the strikers in this league can do that. It's Andy's ability to make something of a "half-decent" or even marginal ball that makes him good in the air. Or did, at least, until he transferred here.

Fitzy. · « **Reply #34 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:33:22 PM »

Haven't read the whole thread but interesting that, as far as I am aware, of the 7 goals he's scored only 1 of Carroll's goals was a header.

horne · « **Reply #35 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:40:48 PM »

Quote from: Roy of the rovers on February 2, 2012, 04:22:25 PM

ZM has a really interesting article on heading the ball

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/02/heading-good-in-the-air/

What is Andy's type, and what kind of cross does he need?

andy is capable of dealing with any ball that he actually makes contact with.
i dont think there really is a type.
If its under hit and he has to put the power behind it to make up for it....whilst being barged off it...then he probably doesnt score.
the two problems he has had really are that the balls havnt been close enough to him when they are coming in...or hes been getting accosted in the box by the defenders....referees have been letting the oppos away with murder....cant stand all this arms around stuff....is it actually allowed.?....ruins the game for me....wish it would be clamped down on

sinnermichael · « **Reply #36 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:47:24 PM »

just on a sidenote, i can't remember the last time i saw any player score with a diving header. it's a dying art.

El Ninos Black Eye · « **Reply #37 on:** February 2, 2012, 05:55:41 PM »

Not just with crosses though, but notice during the last 2 games that when balls have been played up to him, he's not only been winning the headers but purposely directing them for wingers and runners to run onto. I've been critical of him in the past as he just seemed to jump, win the header but with no real direction. But certainly against United it looked they had been working with him a lot, and a lot of his headers he was trying to put into Downings path. Look at Kuyts goal, he clearly knows where he's putting that ball.

oovavu · « **Reply #38 on:** February 2, 2012, 06:17:58 PM »

Quote from: stmichael on February 2, 2012, 05:47:24 PM

just on a sidenote, i can't remember the last time i saw any player score with a diving header. it's a dying art.

Me, last thursday, st davids high school, chester, although it was more face than head.

Carroll needs balls front and back post hit with pace at, wait for it, head height. Adams ball on tuesday was a good example of this (although on the floor) he needs to run in front of or make space behind whoever is marking him. The main thing we should be doing to help him though is playing a more pressing game further up the field. That means he's in and around the box more often where he's most dangerous he's not a linking player and never will be.

Rusty · « **Reply #39 on:** February 2, 2012, 06:20:25 PM »

Quote from: El Ninos Black Eye on February 2, 2012, 05:55:41 PM

Not just with crosses though, but notice during the last 2 games that when balls have been played up to him, he's not only been winning the headers but purposely directing them for wingers and runners to run onto. I've been critical of him in the past as he just seemed to jump, win the header but with no real direction. But certainly against United it looked they had been working with him a lot, and a lot of his headers he was trying to put into Downings path. Look at Kuyts goal, he clearly knows where he's putting that ball.

Absolutely agree - it's almost like a light has switched on in his head and he's said to himself "I'm going to win this header and get it towards a teammate" rather than "I'm going to half-heartedly jump for this, probably won't win the ball, then I'll have a little moan to the ref".

Long may it continue.