Topic: 2012 Boston Red Sox Thread

[JackBauer]

Great piece by Lupica in today's NY Daily News on the Valentine bashing which might change a few opinions on here. Hope this is it:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/blame-guy-article-1.1065576

I read that article a few times during autumn 2010.

"The mess Liverpool are in can't be laid at Roy Hodgson's door; Rafael Benitez left an awful squad behind and any other manager would have the same problems."

[El Campeador]

I read that article a few times during autumn 2010.

"The mess Liverpool are in can't be laid at Roy Hodgson's door; Rafael Benitez left an awful squad behind and any other manager would have the same problems."

I like you. We should be friends.

[ALPH1217]

I read that article a few times during autumn 2010.

"The mess Liverpool are in can't be laid at Roy Hodgson's door; Rafael Benitez left an awful squad behind and any other manager would have the same problems."

I'm not so sure I see inaccuracies in Lupica's piece.

[SalisburyRed]

Tonight's game is off because of the weather.

[El Campeador]

Tonight's game is off because of the weather.

My mate at work picked up tickets on Friday betting that it would get rained out and he'd get to make it up in July.

1-0.

[El Campeador]

I'm not so sure I see inaccuracies in Lupica's piece.

I do.

Epstein should certainly stand up and be counted, but that does not take away from the fact that Valentine is a square peg in a round hole. We have baseball problems right now, not ego problems. Bobby Hodgson was strapped on as a one-wound bandaid, but now that it turns out we need stitches, Lupica wants us to forget about the Hansaplast diagnosis.

Bollox, not having it.

[aurelian]

just saw they were up 9-0 on the Yankees yesterday and lost.

wow.

bet Mr. Henry loved that.

[ALPH1217]

I do.

Epstein should certainly stand up and be counted, but that does not take away from the fact that Valentine is a square peg in a round hole. We have baseball problems right now, not ego problems. Bobby Hodgson was strapped on as a one-wound bandaid, but now that it turns out we need stitches, Lupica wants us to forget about the Hansaplast diagnosis.

Bollox, not having it.

and Tito? You're not telling me he gets a free pass from that nightmare last September. He was the goddammed manager.

[El Campeador]

and Tito? You're not telling me he gets a free pass from that nightmare last September. He was the goddammed manager.

After the Red Sox went 86 years without a title, Tito delivered one in his first year.

So yes, Tito gets a free pass for having a bad month.

[djschembri]

So John Henry & co appointed a "Hodgson" type manager for the Red Sox?

[rafathegaffa83]

So John Henry & co appointed a "Hodgson" type manager for the Red Sox?

Pretty sure it was Larry Luchino who wanted him

[SalisburyRed]

Let's hope things start looking up this week. Away from the glare at Fenway, the Red Sox play a series at Minnesota and then one in Chicago against the White Sox. Those two teams are more on our level at the moment, I think it's fair to say.

[ALPH1217]

So John Henry & co appointed a "Hodgson" type manager for the Red Sox?

He's been in charge for 14 games and is 4-10. Apparently this makes him a poor manager who doesn't have a clue. 

[JohnHenrysIceCreamCone]

I actually feel bad for Bobby at this point. He is the last person to blame for this mess of a team.

[El Campeador]

The parallels are jarring.

[djschembri]

Pretty sure it was Larry Luchino who wanted him

Thanks

He's been in charge for 14 games and is 4-10. Apparently this makes him a poor manager who doesn't have a clue. 

I don't know follow baseball. I'm asking simply because I would have expected FSG to be more thoughtful when it comes to appointing their manager.

Or was he the best/only candidate for the job?

[JohnHenrysIceCreamCone]

Thanks

I don't know follow baseball. I'm asking simply because I would have expected FSG to be more thoughtful when it comes to appointing their manager.

Or was he the best/only candidate for the job?

Far from. They had to reopen the search after all the original candidates declined, were not allowed to interview or did not excite Henry / Lucchino.

[djschembri]

Far from. They had to reopen the search after all the original candidates declined, were not allowed to interview or did not excite Henry / Lucchino.

Who wouldn't want to work for the team with the second highest payroll in the league?

[El Campeador]

He's been in charge for 14 games and is 4-10. Apparently this makes him a poor manager who doesn't have a clue. 

No, it makes him a square peg in a round hole.

[richmond-red]

He's been in charge for 14 games and is 4-10. Apparently this makes him a poor manager who doesn't have a clue. 

Nah, Bobby's a great manager. Just ask him.

[El Campeador]

Nah, Bobby's a great manager. Just ask him.

[SalisburyRed]

Marlon Byrd straight into the line-up tonight, batting ninth, playing centre-field.

[aurelian]

things aren't going well for Mr. Henry.  what with our league form, the Sox being 4-10 right now, Comolli being fired, etc.

He should find himself a beautiful, intelligent wife to come home to.

oh.

wait.

[El Campeador]

Marlon Byrd straight into the line-up tonight, batting ninth, playing centre-field.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6863/career;_ylt=Apd25Pj4WmrCCXQH_qy7kpCFCLcF

[SalisburyRed]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6863/career;_ylt=Apd25Pj4WmrCCXQH_qy7kpCFCLcF

He's also 1-for-12 against Jason Marquis.

Put it this way: if he goes hitless tonight, I won't be surprised.

[rafathegaffa83]

Thanks

I don't know follow baseball. I'm asking simply because I would have expected FSG to be more thoughtful when it comes to appointing their manager.

Or was he the best/only candidate for the job?

The Red Sox GM (think Director of Football) wanted a younger guy (late 40s in baseball management is young). The guys he had in mind had pretty much limited to no actual managerial experience, but were dynamic coaches with a sense of the contemporary game. Valentine was in a World Series a decade ago. The last American team he managed, pretty much ran him out of town after his schtick wore off. Larry Luchino who is the Red Sox president wanted him more than most and overrode the GM. He ticks off the sabermetrics box, but little else. He was brought in order to provide discipline after last season's epic collapse, but he's more likely to bring about a PR disaster or two, which he's already accomplished pretty quickly. The players are already sounding ready to revolt less than a month into the season. He loves the sound of his own voice and therefore the media love him as he provides a soundbite, or two, or three. He's also been out of the American game a decade and had been in Japan for a while and has worked in broadcasting. He seems completely out of touch and some of his decisions so far have cost the team wins and might end up affecting the health of some of their pitchers in particular if he's not careful. He's as El C has said a massive square peg: a stark contrast to Francona.

[blurred]

Is it just me or does the Marlon Byrd trade seem really odd. Crawford's not that far off being activated off the DL, isn't he? Can't see that Byrd's the answer. Or if he is, God knows what the question is...

[Cassiel]

He's also 1-for-12 against Jason Marquis.

Put it this way: if he goes hitless tonight, I won't be surprised.

The way the Sox have played, I'm not surprised if anyone goes hitless. He can't be worse than Repko or Spears can he? Even 1-for-12 is an improvement there.

Here's a hypothetical question. Bard is available to come out of the pen tonight. Let's say he comes in during the 8th when we have a two run lead and strikes out the side. Maybe even comes back out for the 9th to finish it off. Will the Sox really move him back into the rotation after that?

I'm also wondering if they might give Oswalt a call?

[Heighwayondawing]

He's been in charge for 14 games and is 4-10. Apparently this makes him a poor manager who doesn't have a clue.

But he IS a bad manager. I know there are a lot of issues, but that doesn't change the fact that he is an egotistical blowhard who only won when handed the keys to an orange and blue Ferrari. He's a fucking clown and I am almost happy to say that I finally agree with The Nation on something.

[Cassiel]

Is it just me or does the Marlon Byrd trade seem really odd. Crawford's not that far off being activated off the DL, isn't he? Can't see that Byrd's the answer. Or if he is, God knows what the question is...

Think Crawford is a week or so from coming back, and he'll need a fair few games in Pawtucket. With Ellsbury and Repko injured and the bottom of the order a black hole then it was probably worth it in exchange for Bowden, who'd been DFA'd anyway, and a player to be named.

[JohnHenrysIceCreamCone]

The way the Sox have played, I'm not surprised if anyone goes hitless. He can't be worse than Repko or Spears can he? Even 1-for-12 is an improvement there.

Here's a hypothetical question. Bard is available to come out of the pen tonight. Let's say he comes in during the 8th when we have a two run lead and strikes out the side. Maybe even comes back out for the 9th to finish it off. Will the Sox really move him back into the rotation after that?

I'm also wondering if they might give Oswalt a call?

Oswalt already turned them down. He wants to pitch in the National League and somewhere close to his home down South.

Bard is going to be moved to the pen. Arron Cook is in AAA and has a clause in his contract that he can void the deal if he is not in the majors sometime pretty soon. He is going to take Bards spot in the rotation and Bard to the pen, where he is desperately needed.

[Heighwayondawing]

Oswalt already turned them down. He wants to pitch in the National League and somewhere close to his home down South.

Bard is going to be moved to the pen. Arron Cook is in AAA and has a clause in his contract that he can void the deal if he is not in the majors sometime pretty soon. He is going to take Bards spot in the rotation and Bard to the pen, where he is desperately needed.

Stupid question. Who's idea was it to put Bard in the rotation to begin with? Did that person miss what became of Joba Chamberlain when the Yankees decided to fuck around with a successful pitcher?

[Cassiel]

Oswalt already turned them down. He wants to pitch in the National League and somewhere close to his home down South.

Bard is going to be moved to the pen. Arron Cook is in AAA and has a clause in his contract that he can void the deal if he is not in the majors sometime pretty soon. He is going to take Bards spot in the rotation and Bard to the pen, where he is desperately needed.

Their approach to Oswalt was on the Sox's terms, with no desperation, and presumably the $$$ reflected that. I'm sure he could be persuaded now that matters may be more pressing. Would he be a better bet than Cook? And what happens to Cook (or Doubront) when Matsuzaka gets back?

If I was Bard I'd be mightily fucked off, and there were hints he may be a good starter in time, but having him close, Aceves available to pitch in high pressure situations in the 6th or 7th or 8th or all of them like he did last year, while Morales and Padilla, and Hill and possibly MIller when they're ready, to be used as and when, even Melancon when he's rebuilt some confidence in AAA, and the bullpen looks a lot less woeful.

[Cassiel]

Stupid question. Who's idea was it to put Bard in the rotation to begin with? Did that person miss what became of Joba Chamberlain when the Yankees decided to fuck around with a successful pitcher?

The way I read it is that it was Cherington's idea. That might have been a reasonalbe experiment had Pap stayed or Bailey stayed fit, but it was doomed when both went south. You're right though. There is something a bit brittle about Bard and there's a good chance this could screw with him unnecessarily. But he has an advantage over Joba, namely not being a fat fucktard

[Heighwayondawing]

The way I read it is that it was Cherington's idea. That might have been a reasonalbe experiment had Pap stayed or Bailey stayed fit, but it was doomed when both went south. You're right though. There is something a bit brittle about Bard and there's a good chance this could screw with him unnecessarily. But he has an advantage over Joba, namely not being a fat fucktard

Christ. I'm on the same page with you guys a bit much these days. Stupid, fat, drunk hick ruined himself.

[JohnHenrysIceCreamCone]

Stupid question. Who's idea was it to put Bard in the rotation to begin with? Did that person miss what became of Joba Chamberlain when the Yankees decided to fuck around with a successful pitcher?

It was probably Bards idea and Cherington said OK, probably against his better judgement but realizing he did not have the money to sign a free agent starter. Bard wants nothing to do with the bullpen. If Bard wanted to be in the pen and the organization asked him to start he undoubtedly would have volunteered himself already to move back to the pen.

[Cassiel]

It was probably Bards idea and Cherington said OK, probably against his better judgement but realizing he did not have the money to sign a free agent starter. Bard wants nothing to do with the bullpen. If Bard wanted to be in the pen and the organization asked him to start he undoubtedly would have volunteered himself already to move back to the pen.

Which is why if he comes out of the bullpen and helps them win in the next game or two, they may well use it as leverage to say, 'Look Dan, we need you too much' and it'll be a bit of a fait accompli.

[JohnHenrysIceCreamCone]

Which is why if he comes out of the bullpen and helps them win in the next game or two, they may well use it as leverage to say, 'Look Dan, we need you too much' and it'll be a bit of a fait accompli.

Sean McAdam ‏ @Sean_McAdam  Reply  Retweet  Favorite · Open
Bard: "I told him I was OK with it. But also told them 'don't expect me to go down there and make eight guys pitch better." #RedSoxTalk

52m Sean McAdam ‏ @Sean_McAdam  Reply  Retweet  Favorite · Open
Bard: "I still view myself as a starter and they said that they do too. That's where they want me in the long run but this addresses need."

54m Sean McAdam ‏ @Sean_McAdam  Reply  Retweet  Favorite · Open
Bard: "I asked lot of questions as to what their goals were in this & they said right now they have every intention of making it temporary."

[SalisburyRed]

It's a 1am start tonight. Bloody central time.

[djschembri]

The Red Sox GM (think Director of Football) wanted a younger guy (late 40s in baseball management is young). The guys he had in mind had pretty much limited to no actual managerial experience, but were dynamic coaches with a sense of the contemporary game. Valentine was in a World Series a decade ago. The last American team he managed, pretty much ran him out of town after his schtick wore off. Larry Luchino who is the Red Sox president wanted him more than most and overrode the GM. He ticks off the sabermetrics box, but little else. He was brought in order to provide discipline after last season's epic collapse, but he's more likely to bring about a PR disaster or two, which he's already accomplished pretty quickly. The players are already sounding ready to revolt less than a month into the season. He loves the sound of his own voice and therefore the media love him as he provides a soundbite, or two, or three. He's also been out of the American game a decade and had been in Japan for a while and has worked in broadcasting. He seems completely out of touch and some of his decisions so far have cost the team wins and might end up affecting the health of some of their pitchers in particular if he's not careful. He's as El C has said a massive square peg: a stark contrast to Francona.

Thanks for clarifying.