Topic: Luis Suarez - LFC Don't Appeal but Maintain Player's Innocence - Discussion ***

[stoa]

When would we have been allowed to show that?   It would have been another private hearing with another document release by the FA.  They make the rules.

Sorry that I'm coming back to this, as it may or may not have been answered in the pages between 6 or 18. I was out until now and didn't have time to respond, so I hope it's okay.

Of course, this would have been another private hearing. Of course it would have been documents released by the FA, but this time we would have been in the drivers seat. We would have known exactly what "evidence" they have. We would have known what exactly they think Suarez was guilty of. This could have been prepared in a way that the club could have come out of this saying "Look, we did everything we could, but we were not supposed to win this." I could have lived with that.

What I can not live with, is one of our players being destroyed (and nothing else has been happening in recent days and weeks), while the club is taking it on the chin and "getting on with it". This is not about an 8-game-ban. This is not about a 20.000 pound fine. This is about completely destroying a player and his reputation. And I would have hoped the club would fight that until there is nothing left to fight for. People were having a go at Hodgson after he didn't defend Torres when he was called a cheat by the red-nosed one. In my view, what the club has done now is almost the same, except the accusations were much worse...

[Bouncer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

This is a outrageous piece ... Ian Ladyman and any Hack from
The Daily Mail and Daily Mirror should be barred from
Anfield and Melwood immediately  ... I've run out of expletives to capture my utter contempt of the written and broadcast media in this country. The undercurrent seems like they are gunning to force Kenny out now !!!

[Dr. Beaker]

Just one last comment from me before I turn in. I know that Suarez might have been found not guilty if he had said nothing to Kenny and Comolli and they had not reported it to the referee but would that have been right?

Luis did admit to saying the word 'negro' and I don't have a problem with that based on what I've heard from experts in Argeninian Spanish. My problem was the bias of the commission and their apparent desire to make an example of someone.

For those who say our legal team/Comolli/Kenny fucked up by being open - would you be happy if the use of the word 'negro' had been concealed? We would probably have won the case but the truth would not have come out.

And if you were happy with that. What about if Luis had used the word n****r. Would you also have been happy if our legal team concealed the use of that word?

We were open and honest, and it counted for fuck all with the FA - but that's what people with integrity do and in a perverse sort of way I am happy that's what we did. We can all at least live with ourselves.

[Alan_X]

I was never unhappy with Suarez admitting what he said. Because to me it spoke volumes of the man himself. Should he been advised better from the club probably. But to me him saying I said "Negro" was the admission of a man saying "yes I said this , whats the big deal?" which shows to me that he had absolutely no idea what the implications of the word can have and he didn't think he would be in trouble by saying it.

Again, exactly. If we had said "we're saying nothin without a solicitor" then later come out with the story that Suarez had used the word 'negro' not 'n****r' the commission would have pissed themselves laughing. It would have looked like a cooked up story.

The strongest evidence in favour of Luis was his honesty and openness. The commission chose to ignore it.

[redrockydennis]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

This is a outrageous piece ... Ian Ladyman and any Hack from
The Daily Mail and Daily Mirror should be barred from
Anfield and Melwood immediately  ... I've run out of expletives to capture my utter contempt of the written and broadcast media in this country. The undercurrent seems like they are gunning to force Kenny out now !!!

Fucking hell, club has to do something about this, its beyond the pale, to quote some random tosser.

[Joff]

He's said sorry.

[Stussy]

And if you were happy with that. What about if Luis had used the word n****r. Would you also have been happy if our legal team concealed the use of that word?

If he'd said that word or the Spanish equivalent of that slur I'd want him out of our club in the January transfer window.

[Hazell]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

This is a outrageous piece ... Ian Ladyman and any Hack from
The Daily Mail and Daily Mirror should be barred from
Anfield and Melwood immediately  ... I've run out of expletives to capture my utter contempt of the written and broadcast media in this country. The undercurrent seems like they are gunning to force Kenny out now !!!

Ladyman doesn't like Dalglish because he's not a good interviewee - he's mentioned it before and sneaks it into the above article as well. Also, it's the Daily Mail.

[Houlliers goal face]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

This is a outrageous piece ... Ian Ladyman and any Hack from
The Daily Mail and Daily Mirror should be barred from
Anfield and Melwood immediately  ... I've run out of expletives to capture my utter contempt of the written and broadcast media in this country. The undercurrent seems like they are gunning to force Kenny out now !!!

Agreed, I get the feeling there's a real agenda brewing against Kenny.

[John C]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

Its dire and disappointing ignorance within itself. Are they all trying to drive the fastest moral bandwagon by ignoring alternative and sensible discussion provided elsewhere but Fleet Street.

[Stussy]

Its not brewing, its been there all along, the vultures are just swooping on whatever they can.

Keep moving forward, under Kenny, journalists in London writing for shite like the Daily Mail are irrelevant.

[1021]

Agreed, I get the feeling there's a real agenda brewing against Kenny.

There is and for our sakes, I hope the blerts who bought every bullshit 'argument' that the press fed them over Rafa when he was in charge have learn't their lesson and stand by our man, or we will be repeating the same, very costly mistake as we did in 2010.


MEDIA APPROVED.

[Camarero25]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

This is a outrageous piece ... Ian Ladyman and any Hack from
The Daily Mail and Daily Mirror should be barred from
Anfield and Melwood immediately  ... I've run out of expletives to capture my utter contempt of the written and broadcast media in this country. The undercurrent seems like they are gunning to force Kenny out now !!!

The Luis Suarez case — its complexities and its complications — called for subtlety, intelligence and diplomacy.

Tell that to the fucking FA.

[Alf]

Never been a big one for apologies but I'm sure we've all said sorry for things in the past when we've been asked/told to even when it's not our fault. This is a PR move.

[Riedles Reds]

Never been a big one for apologies but I'm sure we've all said sorry for things in the past when we've been asked/told to even when it's not our fault. This is a PR move.

It'll be interesting to see if this is an end or just the start.

[montysmum]

Like it or not, it is time to put this whole sorry mess behind us and move on.

Suarez is right to apologise - an effort maybe to diffuse some of the vitriol being hurled at him from all quarters.  If he wants to stay in the League then he has to play the game, apologise and start again building his reputation.

I am not saying it is right he has to, but that is what he has to do.

He has been badly let down by a lot of people in my opinion.  It is no good regurgitating paragraphs of the FA's report, it isnt going to change anything but we all know what a mess it is.  He went there expecting justice and instead got an 8 game ban, a fine and costs.

Worse though is the way the club and its legal team handles the whole incident.  I am not talking about the solidarity shown by Kenny and the players, which I support, but the inept and casual way we seem to have approached the whole thing, even by the legal team who could have stayed at home and got the same result.  Suarez was let down by them when he should have been getting decent advice and support.

I hope he goes off somewhere now for a holiday for a couple of weeks, comes back and gets back into training and gears up for his return to the team.

In time this will all be forgotten and someone else will be making the headlines.

[rob1408]

I think it's an agenda against the club more than Kenny, they just have a stick to beat us with now.  Rafa had some unbelievable shit thrown at him because he had the audacity to stand up for the club.

The press don't like us because we've always stood alone and we don't follow the rest of the cattle.

[HariLFC]

Could someone read the full Times story on what new facts have emerged that support our defence for Suarez?

[Alan_X]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

This is a outrageous piece ... Ian Ladyman and any Hack from
The Daily Mail and Daily Mirror should be barred from
Anfield and Melwood immediately  ... I've run out of expletives to capture my utter contempt of the written and broadcast media in this country. The undercurrent seems like they are gunning to force Kenny out now !!!

Fuck them. The day I give a flying fuck what the Daily Mail says I'll top myself.

And read the start of that shitty piece. It lists the managers who have failed the sport... Including... err.. Ferguson for opting out of the FA Cup. These no-mark pricks will be on to a new topic in a few weeks.

What about Cheryl Cole? Racist accusations wrecked her life didn't they? She never works again after that court case. And so on.

Luis hasn't been destroyed by this. And I doubt if he feels let down by the club, the manager or the fans.

[Need_a_bevvy]

He has apologised for the use of the word. Tony Barrett has it in the Times tomorrow.

A statement

And, that is a very good thing.

That sort of appology should have been forthcoming at the time of the allegations.

It might have diffused this whole mess, and I suspect it is fairly close to the truth.

1. Evra did feel offended

2. Suarez did not mean to offend

3. Appologize for any unintentional offence caused - case diffused.


Kenny was wrong to put this case in binary terms, when he claimed either Evra or Suarez is guilty and someone should be punished.

As I said at the time, this sort of thing happens all the time in a multicultural work environment and it is a minefield. 

We did not exactly help ourselves.

Glad this appology came out. 

Too late, but better now than never.

[Alan_X]

If he'd said that word or the Spanish equivalent of that slur I'd want him out of our club in the January transfer window.

Same here. Which is why I don't go with the 'our legal team/Comolli/Kenny fucked up' stuff. The truth came out. Good. The FA commission fucked up the investigation and verdict. Bad.

[Pistolero]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082397/Kenny-Dalglish-touch-Luis-Suarez-saga.html

At Manchester City late on Tuesday night, Dalglish tried to stare down those who questioned him. It is a tried, tested and tiresome technique and he is not the only manager to use it.


see, the thing is with these arrogant pricks is that they actually believe themselves to be of greater importance than the people actually involved in playing and managing the game....this Sunday Supplement syndrome is as poisonous to football as the parasitical agents who suck billions out of the game and contribute absolutely fuck all.............their sense of self importance is staggering and their overblown notions of insight into a sport that none of them have ever participated in is stomach turning......Id love to see this shithouse Ladyman repeat any of that garbage in front of Kenny in a packed post match press conference.....in fact, fuck that Id like to see the shitbag barred from Anfield and permanatly barred from talking to any of our players....let the c*nt go and rake his muck somewhere else

[Smudgester]

And, that is a very good thing.

That sort of appology should have been forthcoming at the time of the allegations.

It might have diffused this whole mess, and I suspect it is fairly close to the truth.

1. Evra did feel offended

2. Suarez did not mean to offend

3. Appologize for any unintentional offence caused - case diffused.

Totally correct and you have to wonder why an independent panel didn't think the same, wonder why it hadn't already been done and instigate it there and then.

[The Jackal]

Played for Reading , FA punished him with an 8 game ban for racist behavior , but he apologized and got a 3 game ban with 5 suspended.

Mackie was different - he admitted the charge from the off, hence the leniency. Suarez denied it, as has Terry AFAIK.

[redrockydennis]

Totally correct and you have to wonder why an independent panel didn't think the same, wonder why it hadn't already been done and instigate it there and then.

But that would have vindicated blatters comments and the mighty FA couldn't have that

[Matt8Pie]

Sorry, I'm sure it's already been posted but I've just seen this at the bottom of the BBC article:

Jason Roberts: "They were ugly scenes and I'm worried that kids would have seen this."

Erm, seen what exactly? There was no video evidence to support the claims of any word to come out of Suarez' mouth yet the whole nation knows and has seen exactly what John Terry said. Incredible.

[Chakan]

Mackie was different - he admitted the charge from the off, hence the leniency. Suarez denied it, as has Terry AFAIK.

That's what I am getting at , my feeling is the FA will say "Make an apology and we'll give you a 3 match ban and 5 suspended." And everyone will rally around Terry.

[kiNki]

why anybody buys a newspaper in this country is fucking beyond me, might as well hand over 30p to the nearest manc each day to hear the same anti-scouse shite each day. 

fuck them.
 

[Need_a_bevvy]

100% and karma has been striking back over the past couple of games.......roll on the game at Old Trafford Luis will get his revenge.

100% karma might be our response to Blatter, whose comment was taken in its worst possible meaning.

But, hey.  British redtops love to beat up on the foreigner.

He speaks funny English too.


For the record, I hate FIFA, Blatter and their utter corruption, but the English reaction to his statement smacked of hysteria.

Compare that to the reaction in the rest of the world.  The editors of crap peddler like the Mirror, Mail, the Shite  wondered about the lack of reaction from countries like Holland, Sweden, Germany etc.

You English are easily riled up by the redtop Murdoch brigade.  First they get everyone riled up and hating Blatter.   

In a sad way I think it was sort of an odd experience to have this whole thing turned upon ourselves.   The entire broadside of the media fired at us.

There is a lesson to be learned from this, but I doubt it will ever be taken on.

Tabloid culture is us.

[Rob Dylan]

And, that is a very good thing.

That sort of appology should have been forthcoming at the time of the allegations.

It might have diffused this whole mess, and I suspect it is fairly close to the truth.

1. Evra did feel offended

2. Suarez did not mean to offend

3. Appologize for any unintentional offence caused - case diffused.


Kenny was wrong to put this case in binary terms, when he claimed either Evra or Suarez is guilty and someone should be punished.

As I said at the time, this sort of thing happens all the time in a multicultural work environment and it is a minefield. 

We did not exactly help ourselves.

Glad this appology came out. 

Too late, but better now than never.

Sounds reasonable, but I'm wondering if there was any stage at which Suarez could have come out with this apology and actually changed the course of events - once it was reported to the FA, even if he apologised would they have charged him anyway? I doubt Evra would have accepted it and dropped the charge. And once he'd been charged, I imagine he wouldn't have been allowed to make any comment specific to what happened?

[db1animal]

Its not brewing, its been there all along, the vultures are just swooping on whatever they can.

Keep moving forward, under Kenny, journalists in London writing for shite like the Daily Mail are irrelevant.

I'm sorry I do agree with your comment that the trash they write is irrelevant, but journalists!?! This is the problem what most of these guys are writing is their own opinionated gossip its a million miles from actual journalism.

Its infotainment at its worst because it should be in magazines like heat etc but instead its in Newspapers, because unfortunately too many people these days can't be bothered to read the facts about something and make up their own minds, that would take to much effort, its far easier to be spoon fed someone else's opinions and bleat on about it as fact.

[Camarero25]

Sorry, I'm sure it's already been posted but I've just seen this at the bottom of the BBC article:

Jason Roberts: "They were ugly scenes and I'm worried that kids would have seen this."

Erm, seen what exactly? There was no video evidence to support the claims of any word to come out of Suarez' mouth yet the whole nation knows and has seen exactly what John Terry said. Incredible.

Roberts' comments are amazingly uninformed (is that a word?!), he seems to have absolutely no idea about the case, but is just happy someone has been punished for "racism".

[Rafette]

Do we really think anyone who has been baying for Suarez's blood all week will even accept his apology, however it's worded? No doubt they will trot out the line that he's only doing it under duress, they won't think it's sincere, and the lad will still get a world of shit flung at him every time he plays. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't....

[Need_a_bevvy]

Same here. Which is why I don't go with the 'our legal team/Comolli/Kenny fucked up' stuff. The truth came out. Good. The FA commission fucked up the investigation and verdict. Bad.

Alan,

Reading through the report, I sort of respect our response to this.

It was obvious our side thought no offence was intended and in my policy honesty is always the way to go.

I would much prefer our club admitting to him saying "negro" than trying lie.

Lying - I do not know if there is a limit to my love for this city and this club - but, lying about racism would start to stretch it.

Caveat: I do assume the Kuyt, Comolli thing is due to misunderstanding.   

Cheers.

[Rohit]

Honestly can some tell me why does roberts have so much to say on the matter. Please don't tell me its just down to his ethnic origin or I will weep.

[24/7]

Tabloid culture is us.

A decade ago I would have agreed with you entirely - but I think we have gone way beyond that - it's no longer the tabloids reflecting us, they are actually shaping our views and opinions FOR us - when I say us, I mean the UK as a whole, not you, me or the vast majority of people reading this post.

As Nikki said, it's beyond me why A N Y O N E in this country bothers buying A N Y newspaper. Fuck the lot of them - they don't speak for me, they don't influence my thoughts, they don't formulate my opinions for me.

Oh and by the way - both Evra and Suarez are foreigners - beware over-simplifying matters by appealing to the media's sense of xenophobia - this situation is far more akin to that of looking in a mirror and screaming in horror at what is seen.

[Need_a_bevvy]

Totally correct and you have to wonder why an independent panel didn't think the same, wonder why it hadn't already been done and instigate it there and then.

It is the "Blatter" approach dontchaknow.

So off the table.

[Juan Loco]

Ian Ladyman

Works the Manc beat with a very pro-United bias.

[slimbo]

And, that is a very good thing.

That sort of appology should have been forthcoming at the time of the allegations.

It might have diffused this whole mess, and I suspect it is fairly close to the truth.

1. Evra did feel offended

2. Suarez did not mean to offend

3. Appologize for any unintentional offence caused - case diffused.


Kenny was wrong to put this case in binary terms, when he claimed either Evra or Suarez is guilty and someone should be punished.

As I said at the time, this sort of thing happens all the time in a multicultural work environment and it is a minefield. 

We did not exactly help ourselves.

Glad this appology came out. 

Too late, but better now than never.

Sounds reasonable, but I'm wondering if there was any stage at which Suarez could have come out with this apology and actually changed the course of events - once it was reported to the FA, even if he apologised would they have charged him anyway? I doubt Evra would have accepted it and dropped the charge. And once he'd been charged, I imagine he wouldn't have been allowed to make any comment specific to what happened?

Agree with you NEB. Interesting that reports are saying Suarez hasn't issued an apology directly to Evra, which I think should happen. If no offence was intended, apologise.

Rob Dylan, like you I think it may not have changed the course of events but it certainly would have helped sway public opinion towards Suarez. Had Evra not accepted the apology or dropped the charge I think it would have made him look like a bigger git than he already is.

Really think the club has handled this poorly.

[1021]

Honestly can some tell me why does roberts have so much to say on the matter. Please don't tell me its just down to his ethnic origin or I will weep.

Here you go, mate.


The lad has no credible reason to be mouthing off about it.