Author Topic: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins  (Read 149990 times)

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1120 on: November 30, 2011, 12:11:44 AM »
As Torres performed marginally better than him

He did fuck all except get bossed by Lucas.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1121 on: November 30, 2011, 12:17:02 AM »
He did fuck all except get bossed by Lucas.

Exactly. Carroll did more than just win a few knock downs. He pretty much won 90 per cent, bossing Sideshow Bob to fuck. He just needs a goal. The penalty was a horror, but it didn't really knock the confidence out of him after that. That's a good sign, at least.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1122 on: November 30, 2011, 12:18:54 AM »
As Torres performed marginally better than him

Did he won penalty for Chelsea? i say he performed a lot worse than Carroll and he cost them 20 m. more...
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1123 on: November 30, 2011, 12:19:07 AM »
He was good tonight. He'll become a very good player. Have faith and support him.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1124 on: November 30, 2011, 12:28:43 AM »
No.. it was poor. Lets stop making excuses eh? He shouldnt have taken it unless he was the first choice penalty taker which I rather doubt he was.
I've no reason to make excuses mate. If it goes in, its a good penalty kick.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1125 on: November 30, 2011, 12:30:01 AM »
So we couldve just replaced Torres with Bellamy really and kept the...

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1126 on: November 30, 2011, 12:31:26 AM »
Thought Carroll was very good in the first half.  Wasn't as good in the second half and made a couple of mistakes.  Probably got a bit tired but I was happy to see him get the full 90 tonight.  Really wish he had scored that penalty. A little confidence would do him so good.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1127 on: November 30, 2011, 12:36:37 AM »
Exactly. Carroll did more than just win a few knock downs. He pretty much won 90 per cent, bossing Sideshow Bob to fuck. He just needs a goal. The penalty was a horror, but it didn't really knock the confidence out of him after that. That's a good sign, at least.

Spot on. His response was fantastic.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1128 on: November 30, 2011, 12:39:28 AM »
Penalty was poor but apart from that I think it was a good performance. Should of got another penalty too. That Luiz is a fucking disaster. Andy just needs another goal or two and I can see them flooding in then.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1129 on: November 30, 2011, 01:42:11 AM »
i have an honest question: Can a sub be made just before a penalty kick?
Yes. If memory serves me we did it against Crystal Palace when Aldo was about to leave and he came on to score the pen in our 9-0 win.

I think?

Definitely. If a keeper gets sent off they bring on a new keeper.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1130 on: November 30, 2011, 01:50:37 AM »
I thought Carroll was absolutely massive today, except for the penalty of course. He won absolutely everything, rarely gave away the ball, and made some good passes. This is more like what we've all been expecting from him.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1131 on: November 30, 2011, 02:35:25 AM »
Carroll played ok but we definitely need to buy a good striker in Jan. We can keep on saying things like, "Oh yes he's improving", "He's still young, needs a couple of goals before he gets his confidence bck and starts banging them in regurlarly." blah blah blah. At the moment, he's still not Liverpool standard. I dunno if he will improve but i know if we want that CL spot, we'd better go buy a decent striker in Jan! We can't afford to wait for Carroll to fully develop into the player we expect him to be.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1132 on: November 30, 2011, 02:56:53 AM »
Big target man, poor strike rate, holds up play well, goes down like a sack of spuds, frustrating, English, club record signing...

Every time I watch him, I'm just reminded more and more of Emile Heskey.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1133 on: November 30, 2011, 02:58:49 AM »
I don't want this lad going anywhere. The potential is there and he showed what he has to offer tonight. As long as faith is put in him he'll become a very good player for us sooner or later.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1134 on: November 30, 2011, 03:14:06 AM »
Big target man, poor strike rate, holds up play well, goes down like a sack of spuds, frustrating, English, club record signing...

Every time I watch him, I'm just reminded more and more of Emile Heskey.
Has Kenny not been in touch with you yet?
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1135 on: November 30, 2011, 03:20:43 AM »
Has Kenny not been in touch with you yet?
I'm sure there is a position for you under his command?  ::)
That's a Geoffstrong type of post. Defensive and pointless.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1136 on: November 30, 2011, 03:22:23 AM »
Big target man, poor strike rate, holds up play well, goes down like a sack of spuds, frustrating, English, club record signing...

Every time I watch him, I'm just reminded more and more of Emile Heskey.

Heskey was boss.  :)

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1137 on: November 30, 2011, 03:28:51 AM »
That's a Geoffstrong type of post. Defensive and pointless.
As opposed to you being right about anything?
I'm sorry lad. But you don't seem to have anything to say that is positive about us no matter what.. Ever...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 03:30:43 AM by Terry De Niro »

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1138 on: November 30, 2011, 03:37:50 AM »
A better game from him. Still not convinced by him, but at least better.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1139 on: November 30, 2011, 03:38:32 AM »
As opposed to you being right about anything?
I'm sorry lad. But you don't seem to have anything to say that is possitive about us no matter what what.. Ever...
Just for you then, here's some things I feel (and have posted) very positive about in no particular order...

Agger's fitness
Skrtel's renewed form next to his best CB partner
Signing of Coates
Kelly's development
Lucas doing a better impression of Masch than Masch
Enrique's quality and reliability (and from a big Aurelio fan too)
That left flank axis of Maxi and Bellamy, such experience, movement, vision and threat.
Suarez - the 'Dalglish' to Torres' 'Keegan'
The realisation that Kenny sees that Kuyt is a limited utility player and plays him accordingly.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 03:41:03 AM by rossipersempre »
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1140 on: November 30, 2011, 03:45:21 AM »
Just for you then, here's some things I feel (and have posted) very positive about in no particular order...

Agger's fitness
Skrtel's renewed form next to his best CB partner
Signing of Coates
Kelly's development
Lucas doing a better impression of Masch than Masch
Enrique's quality and reliability (and from a big Aurelio fan too)
That left flank axis of Maxi and Bellamy, such experience, movement, vision and threat.
Suarez - the 'Dalglish' to Torres' 'Keegan'
The realisation that Kenny sees that Kuyt is a limited utility player and plays him accordingly.

Just for you..


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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1141 on: November 30, 2011, 03:52:18 AM »
We played a lot of pass and move stuff even with him in the eleven.Thats a good sign,and I thought he held it up really really well.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1142 on: November 30, 2011, 03:54:39 AM »
Can't believe that people are questioning why he took the penalty. If it wasn't for the foul he probably would've scored and with Adam,Suarez,Stevie and Kuyt not on the pitch he should have taken it.

As for his performance today, im still a little worried. His touch lets him down so often.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1143 on: November 30, 2011, 03:56:45 AM »
Just for you..
What a mature response. Sad you can't acknowledge the basics rules re post not poster.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1144 on: November 30, 2011, 04:01:02 AM »
that delicate through ball which would have put maxi in had he transformed into steven gerrard was a classy pass. his moment of the match for me. i really enjoyed his performance. when we played manchester city in the league, lescott and kompany both consistently hounded suarez when we tried to play the ball up to him. city won a fair few of those battles. in this match, i noticed carroll did really well to take the initiative in a lot of those 50/50s.

carroll actually played a lot of good passes this game. what was frustrating for me was that he frequently failed to find good positions to receive the ball after playing smart passes. sort of by default, he reverted to a position where he could run onto a cross. there needs to be more variety to his movement.

i truly wish the players would stop playing longballs up to carroll. it wasn't even just jamie. maxi, a bit shockingly, was guilty of it. jay did it. bellamy. kelly. enrique. coates. it was really infuriating. 

it was, however, good to see his willingness to close down players. nearly paid off a few times.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 04:02:37 AM by iiqae »

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1145 on: November 30, 2011, 04:02:48 AM »
This thread is wild, in all honesty i was expectin apologies from everybody that doubted carroll, he done a brillant job 2night. I didnt expect him 2 score the penalty, as soon as he won it, it was evident! Nerves/confidence got the better of him, he tracked back, took 2 players outa position 4 kelly 2 score he held up play only thing he didnt do was score, had it been suarez everybody wuda been praising this performance! But its not he cost 35m he must score every game *yawn*

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1146 on: November 30, 2011, 04:07:34 AM »
Thought he was excellent in the first half, although he faded in the second.

The penalty I thought was characteristic of someone lacking confidence opting to smash it down the middle.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1147 on: November 30, 2011, 04:16:22 AM »
Wow. Very surprised by the opinions in this thread. Thought Carroll was our worst player today.

Yeah, he holds the ball up fine and he's pretty good in the air, but an old-school target man is not what we need and so much else was bad from him. I'm not talking about the missed penalty although it was a pretty poor effort. Twice in the first half he deliberately went down in their box in some half-arsed attempt to win a penalty instead of staying on his feet and trying to get a shot off. There was that time he played a through ball to Bellamy who dashed up the wing, pulled up, and then had to smash the ball towards Maxi on the other wing because Carroll was still meandering up the middle with his patented casual slow jog and wasn't in a position to receive the cross. Much the same thing happened on at least one other occasion. His laziness was driving me wild. I also thought he looked pretty clumsy. There were several occasions I can remember where he gave the ball away with bad touches, while cutting the Chelsea player down for the free kick right in front of our box was also not the best contribution.

A shame because our other two recent additions, Henderson and Coates, both had great games I thought. I've been a bit unsure about Henderson and unlike many others thought he was poor against City. But he was good tonight and showed flashes of what he could become. I agree with the idea that he's the new Lucas, raw and untrained at the moment and an easy scapegoat, but with all the potential to become a great player. I hope Carroll can succeed for us, but I don't see it at the moment. I see a player not able to cope in a system of play where pace and fluidity are essential, and I don't think he'll be able to acquire those things.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1148 on: November 30, 2011, 05:25:24 AM »
Can't believe that people are questioning why he took the penalty. If it wasn't for the foul he probably would've scored and with Adam,Suarez,Stevie and Kuyt not on the pitch he should have taken it.

This. It's not like it was guaranteed to be a goal if Adam, Suarez and Kuyt took it. We've scored one goal from four penalties this year.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1149 on: November 30, 2011, 05:37:13 AM »
Carroll was terrible. Heavy first touch, couldn't get one shot/header on target (can't recall if he even had a shot/header off target, for that matter), other than that awful pen. In what world was he having a great game?

At one point, even the commentator correctly pointed out that he should stay in Chelsea's half -- because his mishaps were causing his own team problems.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1150 on: November 30, 2011, 05:50:50 AM »
Thought Carrols general play was quite good today. Great touches and passes. Not sure what game you haters were watching. He had a few nice turns and passes on halfway. There was one time in the first half we knocked about 15 passes in quick short concession between hendo, maxi, carrol, lucas, enrique, bellamy, spearing and then passed it to carragher who hoofed it down to the corner flag...wtf.

To me its not Carrol that is the problem. Our crosses to him in the box were sub par and alot of our possession was midfield turning back on itself to play back to Carragher... who doesnt play a short passing game and his long passing doesnt find carroll that well. We needed a midfielder that would turn on the ball and pass forward instead of backwards.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1151 on: November 30, 2011, 05:55:56 AM »
Thought Carrols general play was quite good today. Great touches and passes. Not sure what game you haters were watching. He had a few nice turns and passes on halfway. There was one time in the first half we knocked about 15 passes in quick short concession between hendo, maxi, carrol, lucas, enrique, bellamy, spearing and then passed it to carragher who hoofed it down to the corner flag...wtf.

To me its not Carrol that is the problem. Our crosses to him in the box were sub par and alot of our possession was midfield turning back on itself to play back to Carragher... who doesnt play a short passing game and his long passing doesnt find carroll that well. We needed a midfielder that would turn on the ball and pass forward instead of backwards.

Crosses were not the problem.......problem was Caroll was hardly in the box attcking those crosses
like the one he headed vs Manchester City..... no point wating for the ball to come to you.
As an attacker he has to be much more aggressive to get to those crosses.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1152 on: November 30, 2011, 06:01:53 AM »
Thought Carrols general play was quite good today. Great touches and passes. Not sure what game you haters were watching. He had a few nice turns and passes on halfway. There was one time in the first half we knocked about 15 passes in quick short concession between hendo, maxi, carrol, lucas, enrique, bellamy, spearing and then passed it to carragher who hoofed it down to the corner flag...wtf.

It's all double standards man. Andy is yet to "impress" most of the fans while Suarez has. If Suarez had taken the same penalty in the same spot, he'd be "unlucky" but Andy is a target because of his price tag. When Andy starts scoring, people will stop thinking about the minor mistakes in his games (like his first touch... reminds me of Torres') and actually get behind him. Can't really do that when you have the media on your back with the price tag... and your own fans. He's in the same boat as Torres right now, and half our fans want 'Nando back to solve our goal scoring issues when Andy has just as much (or is it equal) to him and played less games.

EDIT: I'm not comparing Carroll to Suarez. All I'm saying is that Andy is a victim because of the performances Suarez has put in.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 06:13:42 AM by Discipline »
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1153 on: November 30, 2011, 06:13:25 AM »
No idea what game the haters were watching, Carroll played well and was part of a great team performance. Yes the penalty wasn't amazing but it happens - aside from that his general play was unselfish, he worked hard, created space for others, passed well and won knock-downs.

When even the press acknowledge a good performance and the same usual suspects stick the boot in, you just have to ignore it!
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1154 on: November 30, 2011, 06:19:30 AM »
Wow. Very surprised by the opinions in this thread. Thought Carroll was our worst player today.

Yeah, he holds the ball up fine and he's pretty good in the air, but an old-school target man is not what we need and so much else was bad from him. I'm not talking about the missed penalty although it was a pretty poor effort. Twice in the first half he deliberately went down in their box in some half-arsed attempt to win a penalty instead of staying on his feet and trying to get a shot off. There was that time he played a through ball to Bellamy who dashed up the wing, pulled up, and then had to smash the ball towards Maxi on the other wing because Carroll was still meandering up the middle with his patented casual slow jog and wasn't in a position to receive the cross. Much the same thing happened on at least one other occasion. His laziness was driving me wild. I also thought he looked pretty clumsy. There were several occasions I can remember where he gave the ball away with bad touches, while cutting the Chelsea player down for the free kick right in front of our box was also not the best contribution.

A shame because our other two recent additions, Henderson and Coates, both had great games I thought. I've been a bit unsure about Henderson and unlike many others thought he was poor against City. But he was good tonight and showed flashes of what he could become. I agree with the idea that he's the new Lucas, raw and untrained at the moment and an easy scapegoat, but with all the potential to become a great player. I hope Carroll can succeed for us, but I don't see it at the moment. I see a player not able to cope in a system of play where pace and fluidity are essential, and I don't think he'll be able to acquire those things.
That was the moment that sealed it for me. I think Ive seen what kind of player he is, and could be. A target man without pace or technical abilities. If he uses his physical strength better he can improve, but I'm not sure he'll develop into a Drogba kind of player. Bellamy and Maxi are the kind of players that fit into our attack perfectly while Carroll just doesn't. And I'm not bashing him, some players end up at the wrong team and it's not his fault.
Bottom line for me, we need another striker in January. And we can keep Carroll as a different type of option rather than a starter.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1155 on: November 30, 2011, 06:25:25 AM »
Had a spot on game but I think he's trying way too hard. Hes not in the box often enough to bang the goals in, instead hes in the midfield, trying to get the ball. He needs to relax a bit.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1156 on: November 30, 2011, 06:33:15 AM »
It's all double standards man. Andy is yet to "impress" most of the fans while Suarez has. If Suarez had taken the same penalty in the same spot, he'd be "unlucky" but Andy is a target because of his price tag. When Andy starts scoring, people will stop thinking about the minor mistakes in his games (like his first touch... reminds me of Torres') and actually get behind him. Can't really do that when you have the media on your back with the price tag... and your own fans. He's in the same boat as Torres right now, and half our fans want 'Nando back to solve our goal scoring issues when Andy has just as much (or is it equal) to him and played less games.

EDIT: I'm not comparing Carroll to Suarez. All I'm saying is that Andy is a victim because of the performances Suarez has put in.

Well, there are lot of people who think it was bizarre decision to allow Suarez take the penalty against Sunderland.

I can see the reason why Andy took the penalty. Scoring a goal would have done wonders to his confidence. But still this isn't f*cking charity and you shoudln't pick your penalty takers based on who needs the goal most.

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1157 on: November 30, 2011, 06:40:37 AM »
Looked good initially. Though his off the ball running can certainly improve. The problem for him is that he will be (rightly) benched for the next league. Maybe if we are winning comfortably by the 70th then he will get a chance.

The penalty was poor, though game. If you are smashing it down the middle, put some height in it.
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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1158 on: November 30, 2011, 06:42:23 AM »
The penalty was poor, though game. If you are smashing it down the middle, put some height in it.

And maybe a little less power so the keeper can actually move out of the way.

Offline Discipline

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Re: Andy Carroll, Prime Target by Paul Tomkins
« Reply #1159 on: November 30, 2011, 06:53:13 AM »
Well, there are lot of people who think it was bizarre decision to allow Suarez take the penalty against Sunderland.

I can see the reason why Andy took the penalty. Scoring a goal would have done wonders to his confidence. But still this isn't f*cking charity and you shoudln't pick your penalty takers based on who needs the goal most.

Of course it's no charity, but there's no reason to complain about his overall performance based off of one penalty miss when the likes of Dirk and Suarez have missed also. We've won the game and advanced to the semis. Bar the penalty, he was impressive and has improved his overall performances this season. 

Oh, and Suarez has performed best this season with Andy on the pitch. Hopefully the duo start against Fulham.
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