Author Topic: The Commons to debate on Monday 17th October 2011 (Read 4489 times)

Big Red Richie · « **on:** October 10, 2011, 02:33:19 PM »

THE House of Commons will hold its first full-scale debate on the Hillsborough tragedy next Monday.

It will also be the first in response to an e-petition after almost 140,000 people – 40,000 more than the qualifying number – backed calls for a parliamentary discussion on the grounds of clear public interest.

Walton MP Steve Rotheram then convinced the cross-party business committee the terms of the e-petition’s motion must be debated and, barring a last-minute government climbdown, voted upon.

The motion calls for all government documents pertaining to the disaster, including cabinet minutes and No 10 discussion papers, to be released in an “unredacted, unedited and uncensored form” to the Hillsborough families and the independent panel currently scrutinising unseen documents relating to the tragedy.

The government, which appealed in the high court against full disclosure, insists it has every intention of releasing all papers to the panel.

But ministers have kept a get-out clause which could allow them to invoke precedence curbs on cabinet minutes from the time when Margaret Thatcher was prime minister.

Mr Rotheram believes his debate will put irresistible pressure on ministers.

He said: “It has taken 22 years, which is far too long, but at long last momentum is on our side.

“We need to ensure ministers fulfil their obligations because the families have been let down so many times previously.”

Mr Rotheram won the debate largely because 96 fellow MPs – the number was purely coincidental – backed his move.

They were from nine parties – the three mainstream ones and others from Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland parties – and included every Merseyside MP, former ministers, and those spanning both the left and right wing.

The debate will start at 7pm next Monday and will last three hours.

Unless the minister responding – most likely home secretary Theresa May – agrees to the motion, there will then be a Commons vote.

That is expected to be overwhelmingly behind the Hillsborough families because few MPs will want to be seen voting against.

Such a vote would mean, under parliamentary rules, the files could be released in full within a day or two – unless ministers try to appeal again.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2011/10/10/hillsborough-debate-scheduled-for-next-monday-in-house-of-commons-100252-29566890/#ixzz1aNwpaQoe

24/7 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2011, 06:28:11 PM »

So if Teresa May doesn't agree with the motion, there'll be a vote at about 10pm?

oldboybailey · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2011, 09:40:57 PM »

Fantastic news. 96 MP's must be some sort of sign!

Does anyone know if this will be live on bbc parliament (or shown later?)

Thanks

24/7 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2011, 10:12:57 PM »

Would imagine it should be on BBC Parliament (that's Freeview channel 81 iirc).

JLFC · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2011, 10:28:33 PM »

Quote from: 24/7 on October 10, 2011, 10:12:57 PM

Would imagine it should be on BBC Parliament (that's Freeview channel 81 iirc).

You would hope so but on bbc website scheduling for the day on the bbc parliament channel nothing is shown at 7pm, however on the Sky listings a "House of Commons Live" debate is shown....

RedMike-86- · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2011, 10:07:21 AM »

Is anybody planning to go down to London to stand outside parliament, and make our feelings known?

Seriously thinking of coming down with my camera, and filming some hopes before and reactions after the debate as a part of my Hillsborough documentary.

RedMike-86- · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2011, 11:20:29 AM »

The debate should be shown here -> http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Live.aspx

RedMike-86- · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2011, 11:40:15 AM »

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/richard-keys-and-andy-gray/blog/2011-10-10/graham-beecroft-shares-his-memories-hillsborough-disaster

A piece on Hillsborough on Talk Sport today, ahead of the Commons debate next week. Graham Beecroft recounts his experience of the day.

24/7 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2011, 01:46:46 PM »

Quote from: RedMike-86- on October 11, 2011, 10:07:21 AM

Is anybody planning to go down to London to stand outside parliament, and make our feelings known?

I believe there is talk of organising a protest group outside to make feelings known.

Some of us are going to be in the public gallery following the whole debate. Hopefully we can get to speak to some of the MPs too. I have copies of HFD on standby for anyone who might need a 'refresher' on the context and consequences.

Nice idea about filming before/after, Mike. Do it

Shimmo74 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2011, 03:12:47 PM »

Jim, have you heard what Steve Rotheram had to say about a group of backbench MP's trying to chuck a spanner in the works and get the debate delayed or cancelled? Any thoughts on what we can do about this. I know it's being discussed on the main topic forum, but just wondered what your thoughts are?

-Q- · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2011, 05:35:59 PM »

Quote from: Shimmo74 on October 11, 2011, 03:12:47 PM

Jim, have you heard what Steve Rotheram had to say about a group of backbench MP's trying to chuck a spanner in the works and get the debate delayed or cancelled? Any thoughts on what we can do about this. I know it's being discussed on the main topic forum, but just wondered what your thoughts are?

It is possible that this spanner is genuinely related to extending the pension reform debate and the fact that it impacts the Hillsborough debate is purely coincidental. Either way, they can't stop this debate. They just can't. Pensions can be debated another time, the families have been waiting 22 years for this.

Shimmo74 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:09:52 PM »

Fair enough. Didn't realise the pension debate was before ours. I agree that this should wait.

-Q- · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:11:03 PM »

Quote from: Shimmo74 on October 11, 2011, 06:09:52 PM

Fair enough. Didn't realise the pension debate was before ours. I agree that this should wait.

'this' being the pension debate?

Shimmo74 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:17:17 PM »

Yes mate. The Pension Debate can wait. I still think the government are going to use any excuse to derail our debate.

24/7 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:32:09 PM »

Shimmo - get into the Talksport thread mate - lots to say about this in there

I'm going regardless. If they cancel the debate I'll be making some fuckin noise

pompeyred · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2011, 12:42:12 AM »

this is where is being talked about at the mo
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=281798.360

could be there myself

bordeauxred · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2011, 07:31:25 AM »

Just saw an advert on Daybreak where they said there will be a section on Hillsborough on their Monday morn programme ahead of the debate which includes an ex-MP who will talk about the cover-up. I know its only Daybreak on ITV but again it brings it to the forefront of people's minds who are not aware of what actually happened on the awful day.

MichaelA · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2011, 08:48:05 AM »

This is extremely emotional. Get ready for a tough week people.

That Kennedy moment · « **Reply #18 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:04:47 AM »

Michael, are you talking about the Daybreak slot, or just the mood in general?

I've been out of the loop the last few days, so can someone explain whether the debate on Monday might trigger a vote to release papers with immediate effect?

If so, which papers?

Would they go straight to the Panel or into the public domain?

And does anyone know what the Panel's view is on all this?

MichaelA · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:16:05 AM »

Quote from: That Kennedy moment on October 13, 2011, 10:04:47 AM

Michael, are you talking about the Daybreak slot, or just the mood in general?

I've been out of the loop the last few days, so can someone explain whether the debate on Monday might trigger a vote to release papers with immediate effect?

If so, which papers?

Would they go straight to the Panel or into the public domain?

And does anyone know what the Panel's view is on all this?

Generally. Lots of coverage, footage, brings back a lot of emotion. As I understand it, the debate on Monday night at 7pm is to discuss a motion based on the e-petition, that requests the releasing all of the Hillsborough associated papers in an unredacted form, including Cabinet papers. Steve Rothehram proposed the motion based on the petition and coincidentally got 95 other MP's to sign for the debate. The government could choose to accept the motion - probably Theresa May as Home Secretary would answer for HM Government. If she does not accept the motion on behalf of HMG, then there will be a vote in Parliament. One would hope that the vote would be carried. If the motion is passed they could be released to the inquiry and the families within 48 hours.

No666 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:32:36 AM »

Do we know the actual wording of the motion? I've done a google but can't track it down.

That Kennedy moment · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2011, 01:25:08 PM »

Cheers Michael.

No way Theresa May will turn that motion down. Most important thing is to have the debate itself, especially if it can be held over a couple of hours. Really start to air some of the issues we've known about for years.

But as for the debate being important to the release of the papers - isn't this motion academic, because the Panel have already been promised full disclosure? Perhaps it's a question of HMG reassuring the public

Rigga · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2011, 01:38:59 PM »

Wasn't this started with the BBC? They wanted the cabinet papers, so surely they'll be released before the planned release by the panel next year?

hiphopdj · « **Reply #23 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:11:22 PM »

John Pienaar is interviewing Nick Clegg on the Hillsborough files on five live now

gillp · « **Reply #24 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:15:51 PM »

Journo actually said how critical it was to go past the post 3:15 cut-off for evidence.

24/7 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:20:47 PM »

Quote from: gillp on October 16, 2011, 07:15:51 PM

Journo actually said how critical it was to go past the post 3:15 cut-off for evidence.

Hi mate - which journo please? Any idea? The place is gonna be crawling with them tomorrow - would like an idea of which ones are 'onside', so to speak

Ta!

Oh and .tv are gonna be there too, thankfully.

gillp · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:42:24 PM »

Quote from: 24/7 on October 16, 2011, 07:20:47 PM

Hi mate - which journo please? Any idea? The place is gonna be crawling with them tomorrow - would like an idea of which ones are 'onside', so to speak Ta!

Oh and .tv are gonna be there too, thankfully.

Sorry, no - missed the start. It's the first time I ever heard anyone outside of the Liverpool family mention how critical it is.

24/7 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:42:55 PM »

Quote from: gillp on October 16, 2011, 07:42:24 PM

Sorry, no - missed the start. It's the first time I ever heard anyone outside of the Liverpool family mention how critical it is.

No worries mate - was it on Radio 5 Live or somewhere else?

SalisburyRed · « **Reply #28 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:44:15 PM »

It'll doubtless be on the iPlayer in the not-too-distant future, so you will be able to discover who said what at some point.

kopite77 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 16, 2011, 08:10:30 PM »

Quote from: 24/7 on October 16, 2011, 07:20:47 PM

Hi mate - which journo please? Any idea? The place is gonna be crawling with them tomorrow - would like an idea of which ones are 'onside', so to speak Ta!

Oh and .tv are gonna be there too, thankfully.

The journo was John Gaunt, he said he was out in Birmingham shopping for Wedding rings with his missus on the day of the Disaster, he saw the coverage on a TV in a shop and turned to her and said something along the lines of 'Here we go again, more trouble involving Liverpool fans' but then said after finding out what happened the fans should be totally cleared of any blame.

24/7 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 16, 2011, 08:12:25 PM »

Quote from: kopite77 on October 16, 2011, 08:10:30 PM

...but then said after finding out what happened the fans should be totally cleared of any blame.

Cheers mate - sounds like another one educated. Tick 'em off the list. Great to see him taking the time to educating others too - happens more than we think, that. Nice one

Garry_LFC · « **Reply #31 on:** October 16, 2011, 09:03:08 PM »

Looking forward to it tomorrow. Gonna glue myself to BBC Parliament or which ever other outlet it's being shown on after work. JFT96.

SalisburyRed · « **Reply #32 on:** October 16, 2011, 11:40:04 PM »

Quote from: kopite77 on October 16, 2011, 08:10:30 PM

The journo was John Gaunt, he said he was out in Birmingham shopping for Wedding rings with his missus on the day of the Disaster, he saw the coverage on a TV in a shop and turned to her and said something along the lines of 'Here we go again, more trouble involving Liverpool fans' but then said after finding out what happened the fans should be totally cleared of any blame.

Quote from: 24/7 on October 16, 2011, 08:12:25 PM

Cheers mate - sounds like another one educated. Tick 'em off the list. Great to see him taking the time to educating others too - happens more than we think, that. Nice one

Decent, just a shame Gaunt's taken the Sun's shilling so often in the past (he may still write a column there for all I know).

kopite77 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2011, 12:19:46 AM »

Quote from: SalisburyRed on October 16, 2011, 11:40:04 PM

Decent, just a shame Gaunt's taken the Sun's shilling so often in the past (he may still write a column there for all I know).

I know mate, when John Pienaar said Gaunt was going to air his views on the Commons debate, I feared the worst, but I was pleasantly surprised when he said the fans should be cleared of the blame.

DougLFC94 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2011, 06:34:07 AM »

Does anyone know what time the debate starts?
Cheers

Anywhichwayucan · « **Reply #35 on:** October 17, 2011, 06:37:33 AM »

Quote from: DougLFC94 on October 17, 2011, 06:34:07 AM

Does anyone know what time the debate starts?
Cheers

Around 7pm

DougLFC94 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 17, 2011, 06:59:16 AM »

Quote from: Anywhichwayucan on October 17, 2011, 06:37:33 AM

Around 7pm

Nice one mate, cheers.

Black and White Paul · « **Reply #37 on:** October 17, 2011, 11:04:54 AM »

Hope it goes well for the 96, their families and friends and all Liverpool/football supporters.

RedMike-86- · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2011, 11:27:52 AM »

My thoughts are with the families and the survivors today. I have everything crossed, and will be glued to Parliament TV from 7pm this evening.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Home.aspx

YNWA.

MrEazi1 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2011, 11:50:42 AM »

Nick Clegg on 5 Live yesterday said

Quote

Deputy Prime Minister and Sheffield MP Nick Clegg said he believed the Hillsborough Independent Panel should release documents to the victims' families first, ahead of public disclosure.

He told Pienaar's Politics on BBC Radio 5 Live: "All the Hillsborough papers will be made available by the government to the independent panel and the panel is completely free to release those papers as they want, when they want, to the public.

"I think it's really important we let the panel show the information to the families first so the stuff doesn't come out in kind of dribs and drabs, which I don't think the families on the whole would welcome.

"In terms of the actual events leading up to what happened, debates and discussion within government, that has all got to be got out there by way of the panel."