Topic: should religion be taught in primary school?

[Grobbelrevell]

I think it has to be taught really. To ignore it would be to deprive the child of a knowledge of what is a massive part of our history, for so many reasons.

I agree that it shoudn't be taught in such a way that advises conformity though - which it never was in my school. Whether or not you follow a particular religion in practise should ultimately be a decision for that childs family, not the state.

My family are in no way religious and I would class myself as an atheist. That aside though, I was still curious at school about the various religions and i'm glad that it was included in the national curriculum at that time.

I'd feel pretty ignorant if I had no knowledge of religion at all, to be honest.

[RideTheWalrus]

If it's a religious school, yes. But I think there should be more athiest/agnostic schools etc.

[SP]

Teaching religion should be more about the theory of religion, rather than big long tracts about who believed in what and when. I can't see that has any value, other than historical. Whereas if a child can be taught that the only material differences between religions like Catholicism and religions like Scientology are factors like age and popularity, well that's much more valuable information than whether Protestants believe in the Virgin Mary and why.

There is the practical aspects of religion too. The observance of holy days, what can't be eaten by various religions, the major festivals. They have an impact in a modern society and they have a valid place on the curriculum. RE should not be stuffed into a corner of History.

[corkboy]

There is the practical aspects of religion too. The observance of holy days, what can't be eaten by various religions, the major festivals. They have an impact in a modern society and they have a valid place on the curriculum. RE should not be stuffed into a corner of History.

Fair enough but again, will this be confined to major religions? Because if a kid needs to know that Ramadan is when Muslims fast, he should also know that certain Jehovahs Witnesses won't accept blood transfusions. And that according to scientology, women should give birth in total silence. The "major" world religions have an apparent credibility that is borne of longevity and nothing else.

[Sr Harvest Fiields]

Are other religious followers made to learn about religion in schools? Honest question, i dont know how it works if im honest. ie, does a buhhdist have to learn about Catholicism? Etc.

[thegoodfella]

Are other religious followers made to learn about religion in schools? Honest question, i dont know how it works if im honest. ie, does a buhhdist have to learn about Catholicism? Etc.

Primary school in UK or in general?

[Azi]

Are other religious followers made to learn about religion in schools? Honest question, i dont know how it works if im honest. ie, does a buhhdist have to learn about Catholicism? Etc.

yep went to school in Scotland and even though im Muslim i went to church with the school obv i didn't have to do any of the prayers etc but a just stood there and to be fair my primary taught us all about the 4 main religions Judaism Hinduism Christianity and Islam and if am honest it did help cos growing up being a Muslim all i knew about was islam didnt think they were other religions and was only once i learnt at school about other religions did i realise everyone was different

[Tepid water]

Fair enough but again, will this be confined to major religions? Because if a kid needs to know that Ramadan is when Muslims fast, he should also know that certain Jehovahs Witnesses won't accept blood transfusions. And that according to scientology, women should give birth in total silence. The "major" world religions have an apparent credibility that is borne of longevity and nothing else.

This is true, but they play such an important part in society (rightly or wrongly) that it would be strange if we didn't educate or students about them in some way shape or form.

Members of a society should know why other members of society undertake such strange rituals, it would be odd to ignore it IMO.

[Barneylfc]

Are other religious followers made to learn about religion in schools? Honest question, i dont know how it works if im honest. ie, does a buhhdist have to learn about Catholicism? Etc.

See I wonder about this. My kids school is predominantly catholic. But there's all sorts of races and religions going. They can't teach every single one.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Fair enough but again, will this be confined to major religions? Because if a kid needs to know that Ramadan is when Muslims fast, he should also know that certain Jehovahs Witnesses won't accept blood transfusions. And that according to scientology, women should give birth in total silence. The "major" world religions have an apparent credibility that is borne of longevity and nothing else.

Longevity and number of adherents.  Which seems as accurate a way of judging cultural importance as you are going to get

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

There is the practical aspects of religion too. The observance of holy days, what can't be eaten by various religions, the major festivals. They have an impact in a modern society and they have a valid place on the curriculum. RE should not be stuffed into a corner of History.

There is also the whole feed into morals and ethics which a good teacher can build into RE.  As well as the importance of things like quiet reflection etc etc.  All of which are covered in that national curriculum document I believe.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I know what you mean, and certainly your motivation is purer than mine but I don't think I agree. We need to ask the question, why are we teaching religion. If it is merely to provide a backdrop to certain historical events then I think it can remain in the History syllabus.

Taking your example of the Red Cross, I just read their wiki and while it's very interesting, I can't see where religion comes into it at all. Literally. But even if Dunant was heavily influenced by religious ideas, his main inspiration seems to have been that battle. And even if it wasn't, do we say that Dunant would never have done what he did if he wasn't religious (if indeed he was)?

Take another of your examples, the Gunpowder Plot. The main story there was that there was a failed treason plot by members of one religion against members of another religion who were in power. Really, isn't that all the religious detail anyone needs? Do we really understand history better by knowing the minute details of what each side believed in their respective religions? And if we do, surely that's history, rather than religion?

Teaching religion should be more about the theory of religion, rather than big long tracts about who believed in what and when. I can't see that has any value, other than historical. Whereas if a child can be taught that the only material differences between religions like Catholicism and religions like Scientology are factors like age and popularity, well that's much more valuable information than whether Protestants believe in the Virgin Mary and why.

Henry Dunant

Dunant was born in Geneva, Switzerland, the first son of businessman Jean-Jacques Dunant and Antoinette Dunant-Colladon. His family was devoutly Calvinist and had significant influence in Geneva society. His parents stressed the value of social work, and his father was active helping orphans and parolees, while his mother worked with the sick and poor.[/size]
Dunant grew up during the period of religious awakening known as the Réveil, and at age 18 he joined the Geneva Society for Alms giving. In the following year, together with friends, he founded the so-called "Thursday Association", a loose band of young men that met to study the Bible and help the poor, and he spent much of his free time engaged in prison visits and social work. On November 30, 1852, he founded the Geneva chapter of the YMCA and three years later he took part in the Paris meeting devoted to the founding of its international organization.[/size]

Wiki

[SMD]

I keep wondering what schools some of you have dealt with. I've went to schools ranging from supremely religious (to the point it had its own church) to couldn't give a shite and RE was given lip service.

Aside from assembly (which I was allowed to skip at each of my schools) we were taught about everything, mainly Christianity but it was always stuff like how to be a good person and stuff, not about worshipping Jesus. I learnt about almost all religions, wouldn't say in great detail but we'd learn about Hinduism, Sikhism, as corkboy mentioned Jehovah's Witnesses and stuff.

Never really had a problem.

[rowan_d]

Their existence, histories, and beliefs should be taught. The children should be taught on a wider scale to keep an open mind until they're of an age to make their own decision as to whether to adhere to any religion.

[Beav]

I'm as atheist as they come, but I think religion should be taught in schools because its been a huge part of culture since the dawn of man.

I find the idea of why people believe in a religion fascinating, especially all the various versions of gods through the ages from Egyptian times to modern times.

Its something that needs to be studied to understand the world we live in.

[tontherock]

As a teacher in a primary school, in county primary ie non religious, RE is taught not preached and yes it should be taught at primary school to inform and broaden children's knowledge in order to respect and tolerate the views of others. it should not be used for indoctrination of any religion.

[RedRabbit]

I think it should be thought within the subjects of Ethics and History. No one religion should be given more time than any other.

Teaching 5 year olds is bloody madness.

I, like some of the other Irish boys and girls here, went to a very strict Catholic primary school but it had the opposite effect on me. Whereas all my classmates went onto Catholic secondary schools I had decided, by the age of 9 or 10, that I was going to a non-denominational school. Teaching religion in primary school left me with a very bad taste and almost pathological hatred of all religion.

[Filler.]

It's a massive problem isn't it? Or rather conundrum. I've a child now, but he's only 1 and a half and I just dread him going to school. Kids go to school far too early for me as it is. I also taught for a while in a secondary school. And of course, things don't get easier because there are dozens of different religions to cater for. It can't be easy to find the right balance.

It's easy to remember fondly praying at school while a nipper because it was warm and innocent and I never had any homework to do on it... we might have drawn the odd religious picture or read stories together but I don't remember the homework. I think that's wrong, but then so much of it is.

I'm atheist, I didn't baptise my child because I disagreed with the frankly bizarre ceremony, and I simply didn't think that my child had an evil spirit in him that needed exorcising, but I did think that maybe I should have done because I don't want him to suffer any playground nonsense but then is that a good reason to sign up?

I don't know how I'm going to deal with it all yet. In any religion there are wise stories that can be told and shared and will be of great value to young minds but how you balance it all out, god only knows.

Imagine having Christian Fundamentalism taught at your school tho - as your basic life structure. Awful.

[Mashy-rawr!nooo]

Maybe they should teach Christianity, then show them Zeitgeist (just the religion part.)


But yeah,Teach about it.People need to know.

[bleedsred1978]

It's a massive problem isn't it? Or rather conundrum. I've a child now, but he's only 1 and a half and I just dread him going to school. Kids go to school far too early for me as it is. I also taught for a while in a secondary school. And of course, things don't get easier because there are dozens of different religions to cater for. It can't be easy to find the right balance.

It's easy to remember fondly praying at school while a nipper because it was warm and innocent and I never had any homework to do on it... we might have drawn the odd religious picture or read stories together but I don't remember the homework. I think that's wrong, but then so much of it is.

I'm atheist, I didn't baptise my child because I disagreed with the frankly bizarre ceremony, and I simply didn't think that my child had an evil spirit in him that needed exorcising, but I did think that maybe I should have done because I don't want him to suffer any playground nonsense but then is that a good reason to sign up?

I don't know how I'm going to deal with it all yet. In any religion there are wise stories that can be told and shared and will be of great value to young minds but how you balance it all out, god only knows.

Imagine having Christian Fundamentalism taught at your school tho - as your basic life structure. Awful.

It runs deep mate. I'm a non practicing catholic and still find myself using those phrases.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

Having taught in several schools, I can confidently say that those with the strongest ethoses, the greatest respect between students, and the fewest discipline problems are faith schools.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Having taught in several schools, I can confidently say that those with the strongest ethoses, the greatest respect between students, and the fewest discipline problems are faith schools.

Hope so, just started work in one!

[bleedsred1978]

Having taught in several schools, I can confidently say that those with the strongest ethoses, the greatest respect between students, and the fewest discipline problems are faith schools.

I bow to your experience on this but all I would say is that there is a danger of more secular society when it comes to these faith schools. Tolerance should not only be of those who are like you but of all faiths and creeds. Majority or single faith schools will by definition have less divisions in the student body.

[corkboy]

Henry Dunant

Interesting man but I don't really buy this idea that religion was the inspiration. Equally, I don't buy religion as inspiration for bad deeds - just opportunity. In many societies where great works or great feats were done, religion was far more the default setting than it is now. To be atheist was a scandal, in Britain, certainly. I am re reading Bryson's A Short History Of Nearly Everything and the amount of brilliant minds that Britain produced in the last few centuries is staggering but every single one of them, as far as I can see, was religious. Yet what they discovered would change the world and undermine most of what the various religions taught.

In fact, now that we're on the education topic, you could have an entire History of Science class with that one Bryson book. It's brilliant.

[Slick_Beef]

I feel a bit annoyed that, as a child, I had Christianity forced on me at school. If we didn't sing hymns or say the lords prayer we got a bollocking. I don't agree with that at all and as soon as I was old enough to ask questions I became an athiest. However, I think RE is a VERY important lesson as long as it's not taught with a Christian agenda. Ignorance breeds intolerance.

[FlashingBlade]

Having taught in several schools, I can confidently say that those with the strongest ethoses, the greatest respect between students, and the fewest discipline problems are faith schools.

Well that does it for me...so lets get Muslim teachers teaching in Catholic schools and Jews in Protestant and we can get a real groovy, well behaved , tolerant society going on....just like Liverpool or Glasgow  in the Fifties with all those 'faith' schools around!

[corkboy]

Having taught in several schools, I can confidently say that those with the strongest ethoses, the greatest respect between students, and the fewest discipline problems are faith schools.

[FlashingBlade]

hahahahah!... a thread closer if ever!!

[caspertheghost]

I feel a bit annoyed that, as a child, I had Christianity forced on me at school. If we didn't sing hymns or say the lords prayer we got a bollocking. I don't agree with that at all and as soon as I was old enough to ask questions I became an athiest. However, I think RE is a VERY important lesson as long as it's not taught with a Christian agenda. Ignorance breeds intolerance.

That must have been the ethos of the school. Funnily enough when I had a maths class I had maths forced on me. Same thing happened with French. Oddly enough our Latin teacher beat the shite out of anyone who fucked up their declensions and conjugations.

[Filler.]

It runs deep mate. I'm a non practicing catholic and still find myself using those phrases.

As long as they are used knowingly

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Sorry to spoil the fun, but backing up Imperator's comments.  In the UK faith schools, on average, are also the most oversubscribed, get the best exam results and the best Ofsted reports.  Clearly we are not looking at a properly controlled sample here but there is something there that should not be ignored.

And those faith schools teach a number of religions as prescribed by the national curriculum, to kids from a range range of faith backgrounds.  They are generally not the single faith schools of the past.  Read SMD's first hand opinion.

[otottottffn]

I am voting yes despite the fact that I dislike most of what religion stands for. It is part of our culture and important for a lot of people, so it is important for children to understand it.  As long as it is taught in a factual sense as in, this is what the bible or whatever says and this is what people understand of it, not as in this is what you need to believe.  The right from wrong is another issue which can be taught in a religious context, but does not need to be, and I believe is best taught in a purely humanitarian context.

[corkboy]

Sorry to spoil the fun, but backing up Imperator's comments.  In the UK faith schools, on average, are also the most oversubscribed, get the best exam results and the best Ofsted reports.  Clearly we are not looking at a properly controlled sample here but there is something there that should not be ignored.

And those faith schools teach a number of religions as prescribed by the national curriculum, to kids from a range range of faith backgrounds.  They are generally not the single faith schools of the past.  Read SMD's first hand opinion.

A similar thing happens here with Gaelscoileanna, or Irish language schools, i.e. where they teach everything through Irish. Except English. My kid is in one and the teaching staff are excellent, and in many cases totally hot also. Are faith school teachers hot?

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Interesting man but I don't really buy this idea that religion was the inspiration.

Impossible to separate the man from his deeply held beliefs surely?  In "Memories of Solferino" after describing the distressing plight of the injured and dying and the disorganised efforts to help them for many pages he concludes with "could not advantage be taken of a time of relative calm and quiet to investigate and try to solve a question of such immense and worldwide importance, both from the humane and Christian stand-point?"

Anyway, we're digressing badly, and the intended recipient of todays history lesson appears to have run for the sierras.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

A similar thing happens here with Gaelscoileanna, or Irish language schools, i.e. where they teach everything through Irish. Except English. My kid is in one and the teaching staff are excellent, and in many cases totally hot also. Are faith school teachers hot?

My other half is

[corkboy]

My other half is

There you go. Faith schools do better because schools with a singular ethos do better and also attract hot teachers. Case closed.

[Elli]

I'll begin by apologising for not having read through the thread - not usually like me, but for tonight I'm afraid I just want to pitch straight in.

A yes/no poll is frankly ridiculous, and my immediate response is a question: are you talking about teaching a religion, or about teaching primary aged children about the different religious (and non-religious - we always get forgotten!!) viewpoints which exist?

I fully support the latter, and am entirely wary of and skeptical about the former, particularly when it involves a segregated faith school. I have a broad range of ethnic, linguistic and religious backgrounds represented in some way in my class of 20-odd 6 year olds, and I firmly believe they are benefiting from mixing with each other in the company of adults who value them all as individuals and do not regard their views (or perhaps at the moment, their parents' views) as better or worse.

[scatman]

So ? What's the point ?
Try to say to Einstein that his theory of relativity will be proven to be false in Cern some 30 years ago and then survive the bonfire. or tell the Ancient Greeks that the world is round. or tell Renaissance Florence that the world goes round the sun not the other way round. I'm sure extra-marital sex would have been highly condemned too some 500 years ago. 

Your claim just shows that times change and bear no relevance as to whether Religion should be thought.

FYI the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round, most of the world's civilisation's did, it was the Catholic Church who suppressed that belief in Europe.

[Prelude no.5]

FYI the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round, most of the world's civilisation's did, it was the Catholic Church who suppressed that belief in Europe.

Ah, I should have been clearer since the term 'Ancient Greeks' encompasses a great period of time.

The classics Homer & Hesoid definitely believed in a flat art as did all of the pre-Socratic philosophers up to Pythagoras.

[tbonejones]

I deffo think RE should be taught in schools, kids should know about different religions. As others have said, it is a massive part of our history and culture, and it is ignorant not to know about it IMO.

But I don't agree with hymn signing, the lord's prayer, etc. I have experience of having religion forced on me as a lad and I think it's wrong. Even if it seems harmless, I just don't think it is right.